Savage F/TR or Rem 700P

oldreliable45120

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I'm looking for a new toy to replace my 700P that is getting chanbered in 6.5 Creedmoor. Now don't get me wrong I love my 700P's, I have 4 and a 25-06 with a P stock. I'm hearing alot of good things about those Savages. I have never shot one or much less held one. Now here's my question. How do they compare to the Remington? Price seems to be about the same. Just wanted to know if anyone is using one and how it performs. Mag vs no mag isnt the issue. Just want some info on the comparison. Thanks
 

oldreliable45120

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Re: Savage F/TR or Rem 700P

You have to be kidding, no one shoots a savage F/TR here? I figured a couple of rifle nuts would have one. How about the Palma rifle then?
 

Erik Cortina

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Re: Savage F/TR or Rem 700P

If you think all the custom action builders are wrong, get a Savage, else stick with Remington.
 

rwcathunter

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Re: Savage F/TR or Rem 700P

i shoot an ft/r. love it. when i do my job it will shoot 1/2 moa at 600 with 175 smk's. for the price i would have to say it's hard to beat. i know a few guys who have spent 4 times as much on their target rifles and they don't out shoot my savage. with that said i have no complaints about my remy either.
 

cavscout1983

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Re: Savage F/TR or Rem 700P

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: X3M Hunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you think all the custom action builders are wrong, get a Savage, else stick with Remington.</div></div>

Care to quantify that with your personal experience a la' Salvage vs Savage?

Savage isnt a time tested brand like the Remington 700 series...if I'm understanding what a lot of custom builders are doing these days- theyre using Surgeons, Barnards, or their on custom actions. Savage however is tapping into a market that allows great accuracy and customer customization.

I own two Savages- 10 FCP-K in 308 and LRPV single shot in .223. Both are accurate as all hell when I dont buff the shot. I can, if I so choose, re-barrel to anything that uses the same bolt face, or I just pop out the bolt face and put a new one on to compensate for the new casing. My .223 LRPV can be a .260 in about an hour. My 10FCP-K can be a .204 in same time...or vice versa. It's almost stupifying how many combos of guns I can have with the same action and a little time. Floating bolt head on the Savage, Accu-trigger, and the ability to get consistent headspace when switching calibers are just a few of the things that have sold me on the Savage versus my 700 LTR. My LTR is a great little gun, but I can't do nearly the same amount of work on my Remmy as I can my Savages. It will be for sale soon.

Is it a Lawton, Surgeon, GAP etc etc etc? No...but I think you really can't go wrong for the money and ability to customize it at home in the garage with a little help from the DIYers on the net.
 

Erik Cortina

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Re: Savage F/TR or Rem 700P

Well, let me know when you are ready to sell your LTR. As a matter of fact, I have a custom Savage 110 in 22-250 AI, heavy SS barrel, thumbhole stock, sharpshooter trigger. How about I do you a favor and let you trade me your factory Remington for my custom Savage? Let's see if you really like Savages more than Remingtons that much!

-X3M
 

cavscout1983

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Re: Savage F/TR or Rem 700P

Need to sell the LTR...already have enough rifles. Might be able to trade, depending. But if you would like to talk specifics on that, feel free to PM.
 

oldreliable45120

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Re: Savage F/TR or Rem 700P

XM3-- Not to change things around, but all the custom smiths use the 700 as a cheeper alternative to a custom action. Theres a hell of an aftermarket for the 700. If my memmory serves me right, before all these custom smiths were in the business,or born the old time smiths used Mauser 98,Springfield and 1917 Enfield actions. I have 2 custom Mauser action rifles,1 in 7mm Weatherby(which Roy used when he first started making rifles) and 1 in 30-06. Both rifles were made after WW2 and are works of art. Now dont get my wrong todays smiths are great at there work, and they do take pride in it. Threr's just something about a pre/post war custom rifle that cant be touched in my opinion.
 

Erik Cortina

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Re: Savage F/TR or Rem 700P

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: oldreliable45120</div><div class="ubbcode-body">XM3-- Not to change things around, but all the custom smiths use the 700 as a cheeper alternative to a custom action. Theres a hell of an aftermarket for the 700. If my memmory serves me right, before all these custom smiths were in the business,or born the old time smiths used Mauser 98,Springfield and 1917 Enfield actions. I have 2 custom Mauser action rifles,1 in 7mm Weatherby(which Roy used when he first started making rifles) and 1 in 30-06. Both rifles were made after WW2 and are works of art. Now dont get my wrong todays smiths are great at there work, and they do take pride in it. Threr's just something about a pre/post war custom rifle that cant be touched in my opinion. </div></div>

Can't argue with that!
 

wbm

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Re: Savage F/TR or Rem 700P

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> If you think all the custom action builders are wrong, get a Savage, else stick with Remington.</div></div>

Custom builders build what customers want. I'll take the Savage any day. Can't argue with ignorance.
 

jeffersonv

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Re: Savage F/TR or Rem 700P

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: X3M</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you think all the custom action builders are wrong, get a Savage, else stick with Remington. </div></div>

Even if I go out on a limb to make sense of that statement, I think he was asking more from a shooters perspective not a builders perspective.
The DIY factor and out of box accuracy of the Savage doesn't doesn't lend itself to being a regular topic of discussion with "custom action builders".
 

Scimitar

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Re: Savage F/TR or Rem 700P

Savages shoot better than they should for their cost. If you are
wanting a F/TR gun for competition, a Savage will get you in the
game cheaper than building a Rem with a 30 inch barrel. They shoot great. If you build a custom gun, go with a Rem action.
Only saying that because if you ever get in a pinch and need some cash, a custom built off a Rem will sale quicker IMHO.
 

Greg Langelius *

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Re: Savage F/TR or Rem 700P

Rifle builders, IMHO, are a rather hidebound bunch. They find something that works, and maybe a lot of them stop looking.

I think the Remington preference is driven at least in part by inertia.

When the SH Ghost Dancer project came off the ground back in mid-2002, one of our number, a very gifted machinist, spec'd out the basic factory Savage 10FP actions and also the barrel threads. He had a lot of experience, including with Remington. And my thinking after he did this was that the Savage was a lot more like a Blueprinted action right o/o the box than many or most Remingtons.

The term I think I recall hearing was 'no comparison'. His opinion was that blueprinting a Savage would not really achieve very much, they were already right at, or danged close to, spec. Certain of the features, like the floating bolt head, actually negated the need for some blueprinting staps. The entire Savage 10/110 action design was intended to be way better suited to an assembly process that delivered a properly spec'd product in the first place.

I believe, on average, that builders would do themselves a favor, in terms of work needed to true an action, by giving the Savage action a run for its money.

These actions, in several configurations, are available directly as retail products from Savage.

I hate to see a reasonable resource being passed over for reasons that really don't make a lot of sense to me.

Yes, I'm not a builder. There are certainly many tool and die making issues about which I have no knowledge.

But when people I trust tell me that the action that's 'the standard' compares so poorly with the Savage, I really do need to stop and wonder.

It is my opinion that Remington has been resting on its laurels, and that the original advantage they once may have held no longer has a comparative basis in fact.

Savage, OTOH, has been surging to the forefront with innovation and demanding excellence, and all we seem to able to do here on The 'Hide is toss about hackneyed taunts and wisecracks. Fact is, they are simple, solid machines; and they do their jobs admirably.

I think it's time for some of us to open our eyes, grow up, and face reality. Savage makes a superior action.

Greg
 

McKinneyMike

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Re: Savage F/TR or Rem 700P

Get the Savage. It is extremely accurate out of the box. You will have to throw money at the Rem to get it to shoot as well typically. If you want a custom action, then buy one and build on it. Look at what the Savage Factory Team is doing in competition with those rifles these days. Old habits are tough to break.

I realize that the majority here shoot Remington's, and I would imagine it is the amount of after market goods available for them. They are no better than Savage action out of the box and the Savage is more inherently accurate due to its floating bolt head. Look at the new custom actions coming out now which utilize the floating bolt head designs.

Personally I am no longer a Remington buyer, but I will buy a custom action based upon the 700. The Remington actions simply cost too much to make them as good as a custom action. Why bother?

The Savages shoot better stock as a rule, are cheaper to purchase, and I can change barrels and head space easily. More and more accessories coming to market all the time. Easy choice for me.
 

Greg Langelius *

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Re: Savage F/TR or Rem 700P

I would buy, or build, a custom based on a Savage action far quicker than I would one based on a Remington action. My .260 Ghost Dancer already fully complies with this doctrine.

It's just an opinion, but I think I'm becoming a lot less of a voice crying my tune out in the wilderness these days.

Greg
 

McKinneyMike

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Re: Savage F/TR or Rem 700P

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

It's just an opinion, but I think I'm becoming a lot less of a voice crying my tune out in the wilderness these days.</div></div>

QFT
 

asbestosglove

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Re: Savage F/TR or Rem 700P

I have a Remington 700 based custom. I has a 30" Broughton in their 1000 yd. contour, McMillan A2, old-school Rem trigger, Badger bottom metal, sleeved bolt, trick knob, yada-yada. I shot a whole day at the 2009 F-Nats in Butner with a Team Savage member. I got my ass whipped a whole day at the 2009 F-Nats in Butner by a Team Savage member. He said his rifle was an un-modified factory F/TR model. The guy really knew how to drive it. From what I have seen, the value represented in that rifle makes it a fine choice. I don't think Remington even offers a comparable item. No 30" .308's leap out at me in their catalog. AG
 

villhelm

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Re: Savage F/TR or Rem 700P

Well shit i was thinking about buying a rem700p and upgradeing it but now im thinking about the savage thanks for the info
 

Snakum

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Re: Savage F/TR or Rem 700P

I love my Savage, and if you need something out of the box to shoot lights out with little muss and fuss, I don't see how you can beat it.

But if you're going to upgrade it little by little to an eventual full out custom whiz bang, then Remington makes a lot more sense, I guess.
 

villhelm

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Re: Savage F/TR or Rem 700P

how much are the 110ba's going for the gun store/pistol range near my house has one for like 700 i held it not less then a hour ago when i was there lol
 

Short-bus

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Re: Savage F/TR or Rem 700P

The only thing I wish I could get on my 10 is a trigger that feels like the high end jewell triggers that go on those rem's. I have the SSS comp trigger, and it's nice, but after shooting a really nice trigger on a friends GAP, it leaves me wanting just a little more.

Other than that, I love my Savage, and if the wife would let me, I would own a bunch more. Those folks comparing the 'aftermarket' support of Rem over Savage need to take a look at the current trends. For every 1 new product for a Remington Action, there are 10 Savage parts (perhaps a bit of an exaggerated statement, but the point exists). I bought my 10 in 1999, and there wasn't really squat for it. Now, there are more choices than I can shake a stick at.

The choice between Rem or Savage is up to the buyer, I say Savage, however i'm biased never having owned a Remington. I've shot plenty of them, but never have owned one. Will I ever buy one? Don't know, likely no.

Branden
 

sotexhill

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Re: Savage F/TR or Rem 700P

I just bought a Remington 5R for hunting and F/TR. I wanted the 24" barrel for use in a hunting blind and the 1:11.25 for stabilization of up to 180 gr bullets out of the 24 inch barrel. And I want my F/TR to provide practice for my hunting. Also, for a given length barrel, the Savage is about an inch longer than the Remington 700 short action.

If I had been looking for F/TR only, I think the Savage F/TR would be a better choice. The 1:12 barrel should not have a stabilization problem with the greater velocities out of the 30 inch barrel. If I had been willing to dedicate the funds, I could have bought a 22-24 inch 5R 1:11 barrel for it for hunting and switched them out when indicated, but I wasn't willing to do that. Except that I have a lot of 308 components, I probably would have wanted a 6.5 like the 260 Remington for both hunting and F Open class.

I've shot more than one deer out of a group of deer, so wanted a magazine. Also, I wanted the capability of switching mags with the mags holding five rounds for NRA high power. Savage's website says that the F/TR is a single shot. But you say that isn't a factor for you.

The Model 10 FCP McMillan would have been a player for me, except that getting a five round detachable mag would have been problematic. Also, I preferred the 5R 1:11.25 rifling.

The Palma has a 1:13 twist for better stabilization of the Palma bullets which are limited to 155 grains. I would want to be able to shoot heavier projectiles in the wind, but it may well be that the Palma with the 155 grain Sierra Palma bullet or Hornady AMax would shoot better than I can anyway. The Palma doesn't weigh as much as the Savage F/TR, which might be some disadvantage in F/TR competition. And the Savage F/TR with the 1:12 twist would be more adaptable if you decided to shorten the barrel.

With Savage, you could get a 223 bolt head and barrel and switch them out for practice or competition with the 223 with a reduction in ammunition/component price. The F/TR in 223 might be the best choice for out to 600 yards. Maybe even out to 1000 yards with 80-90 grain bullets.

IMO and FWIW. Have fun with whatever you choose.
smile.gif
 

Quickdraw40

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Re: Savage F/TR or Rem 700P

i've got two builds going with savage f classes (6.5x284) and stockade stocks.
 

shoots100

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Re: Savage F/TR or Rem 700P

Please don't buy a savage.They really don't win matches or medals,it's just lies I tell you,lies.Team Savage ??? They photo shopped their images off of a Remington poster.If word gets out about their accomplisments,the prices will go up on their rifles and accesories.
Stick with the Rem 700 and keep all of the gunsmiths(that need to pay off the machines to work on them)in buisness.You don't want to be seen at the range or a match with a savage rifle do you ?????? Floating head,Accu trigger,Accu stock, "F" Class !!! What will your neighbors say ?? Savage rifles have bad JU JU and will give you a rash.
You've been warned.

STEVE
 

Etnie

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Re: Savage F/TR or Rem 700P

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> My .260 Ghost Dancer </div></div>

Whats this rifle you speak of? Got a picture to show off as well ?
 

Greg Langelius *

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Re: Savage F/TR or Rem 700P

No pictures. Savage 10FP 2002 vintage action, SSS trigger and recoil lug, L-W 28" 1:8" BR grade SS barrel, .260 Rem SAAMI chambered. McMillan A3 Stock, Ghost Gray, McM Pillar bedded, cutout style adj cheek pce, 16.5" LOP stacker adjustment (I'se a tall one...). Ken Farrel 20MOA sloped base. 1Kyd 28-30MOA elevation w/HDY 140A-Max or SRA 142SMK. In my not so capable hands, capable of mid-180's to mid-190's 1Kyd F Open. Mine is my second most treasured firearm, the first being my Pre-War Garand.

Three were built. Two had A3's and the other had an A4, all were originally fielded with 24" 1:8" Savage factory .260 rem SAAMI chambered barrels and mine was very successfully tested at 1Km, then later upgraded with the L-W barrel. The other two have been reconfigured since, and I have lost track of them.

Greg
 

Etnie

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Re: Savage F/TR or Rem 700P

That sounds like something I want to put together. I would love to have a .260 barrel on my Savage and upgrade the rifle to all those specs. I currently have a .308 12BVSS that shoots a lot better than the 4 Rem. 700's I own, none are true custom guns though.

If you ever get pics of that rifle I would love to see it.
 

GorbashUK

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Re: Savage F/TR or Rem 700P

What do you want the rifle for? I see standard Remmy 700 p .308's struggle in fclass comps unless you change the barrel, trigger and true up the actions. The savage FTR is an ugly barrel heavy brute but it shoots very well. Pay your money and take your choice, or if your well off buy both.
 

Greg Langelius *

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Re: Savage F/TR or Rem 700P

The Savage 12BVSS (actually, we used a 112BVSS) .308 is the gun we used to maintain as a 1000yd F Class loaner, for getting new guys into the sport. Except for walkabout (it's a tad heavy), it's an excellent choice for what you're looking to do, right O/O the box. Basic 45.0gr Varget/175SMK load. When the barrel goes gaga (plan on a long wait for that) rebarreling with a .260 Rem would certainly be in order. Me, I'd stay with the L-W SS 28" but maybe I'd try a 1:9" twist this time around.

Greg
 

McKinneyMike

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Re: Savage F/TR or Rem 700P

Not sure what is ugly about the F/TR, but I always thought that the majority of F/TR style weapons were longer barreled, heavier rifles. Maybe I have seen a different crowd of shooters than others have. The Savage F/TR will allow a shooter to compete with a stock rifle w/appropriate glass. Will it keep up with the big boys? I don't know, but the Savage Team seems to do well with stock rifles
wink.gif


F-Class Open Rule Overview
Rifle ........... Any
Sights .......... Any
Front Support ... Front rest allowed
Rear Support .... Rear bag allowed
Caliber ......... Any up to 0.35 caliber, per local range restrictions
Maximum Weight .. 22 lbs

F/TR Rule Overview
F-Class Open Rule Overview
Rifle ........... Any
Sights .......... Any
Front Support ... Bipod or rucksack
Rear Support .... Rear bag allowed
Caliber ......... .223 Winchester, .308 Winchester
Maximum Weight .. 18.15 lbs

US F-Class Rifle Team
http://www.usfclass.com/
 

Quickoz

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Re: Savage F/TR or Rem 700P

Down here in Australia, the F/TR has quite a following fom what Ive seen around the F-Class. Many guys use Barnard, Omark, Savage and Remington.

My opinion, go with what YOU are comfy with. If a Savage shoots well for you, go with it. If she feels right, then get it. I think if the rifle feels right, you will shoot better with it then if she didnt.

I have a R700 based custom and I love it. But it aint no F-Class rifle (well not a conventional one) but it still shoots well and It feels right for me.
 

basalt

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Re: Savage F/TR or Rem 700P

I got my F/TR used, never fired, for less than $900 a few weeks ago. I tried 4 different factory match ammo loads and found 3 that shot sub minute, and 2 that were sub-half minute. Took it to 1000 yards the second time I shot it and fired 5 shots within 7.5" of each other at 1000 (wind got the rest of em while I wasn't paying attention
wink.gif
). This was my first time ever shooting > 400 yards. Only thing I did was put a scope on it. Needless to say I love it.

It makes my worked over 700 BDL trigger feel like crap. I would never want to walk around with this thing though!
 

scaxeman

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Re: Savage F/TR or Rem 700P

For more specific F-T/R Team info, try the following website:
www.usftrclass.com

The link in Mike McKinney's post above is to the F-Open Team's website.

Also, to correct Mike's info, F-T/R is fired off a bipod only, not a rucksack.

Asbestos: which day did I shoot with you in Butner?

Good Shooting All,

Darrell
 

chrisj

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Re: Savage F/TR or Rem 700P

Let me ask you all this....

If the US military switched tomorrow to a rifle using a Savage action...how many Remingtons do you think would be For Sale here in the next week?
 
G

Guest

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Re: Savage F/TR or Rem 700P

I can only speak from own limited experiences and observations.

I have seen guys post groups on this site from custom rifles that cost 6-7 times what my I have in my Savage, and I wonder what it is that they are getting for all of the money they have spent, because it's certainly not superior performance.

I like a Remington just fine, but I have found they have to be twiddled with and tweaked quite a bit to get them to the point that the majority of Savages seem to be right out of the box.

I'm not a barrel-swap nut just yet, but I'm certainly glad to have that as another tool on the kit.

What started out for me as stock Savage 12FVSS, which was quite accurate out of the box, has evolved into a rifle that I wouldn't sell for 3 times what I have in it.

I understand the affinity to Remingtons for people who have used them as service rifles. I'm sure I'd feel the same way if that applied to me.

But, for those who continue to look down their noses at Savages, I offer this bit of friendly advice. Stop looking down your nose, and direct your attention to what is going right by you in the other lane.
wink.gif
 
G

Guest

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Re: Savage F/TR or Rem 700P

I would also add that I have two experiences with Savage customers service, and in both cases they have been perfect, exceeding my expectations.
 

Etnie

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Re: Savage F/TR or Rem 700P

The one thing that sucks about Savage's is I cant seem to find any used Mcmillan stocks to upgrade with easily.
 

savage110

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Re: Savage F/TR or Rem 700P

order one, wait time is only 10 weeks at the moment, sometimes they even get it out faster then that!