SAW replacement...
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Re: SAW replacement...
If it is a 30 round 'like an M4' then how is this any better for the job than an M4?
If it is a 30 round 'like an M4' then how is this any better for the job than an M4?
Re: SAW replacement...
Sucks not having a belt.
The mags are going to be an issue. Weight and all. I hope they had the sense to make them the same as the M4 mag so the new SAW can eat from the pantry of plenty.
Sucks not having a belt.
The mags are going to be an issue. Weight and all. I hope they had the sense to make them the same as the M4 mag so the new SAW can eat from the pantry of plenty.
Re: SAW replacement...
Here is another article:
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/IAR-What-IAR-The-USMCs-SAW-Substitution-05240/
Here is another article:
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/IAR-What-IAR-The-USMCs-SAW-Substitution-05240/
Re: SAW replacement...
Here is what my friend, a Marine and Vietnam veteran, has to say:
"Sadly the Marine Corps could be on the cusp of making the same mistake they made, when in the interest of weight saving they sacrificed performance, by replacing the M14 with the M16. Staff weenies at Quantico are contemplating replacing the tried and true belt fed SAW with the lightweight (7 pounds) 30 round magazine fed M27. I believe this brings up major fire superiority problems for small unit combat engagements. See here for the concerns of the Commandant and others:
http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/2009/12/marine_saw_122509w/
http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/2009/02/marine_newsaw_020109w/ "
Here is what my friend, a Marine and Vietnam veteran, has to say:
"Sadly the Marine Corps could be on the cusp of making the same mistake they made, when in the interest of weight saving they sacrificed performance, by replacing the M14 with the M16. Staff weenies at Quantico are contemplating replacing the tried and true belt fed SAW with the lightweight (7 pounds) 30 round magazine fed M27. I believe this brings up major fire superiority problems for small unit combat engagements. See here for the concerns of the Commandant and others:
http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/2009/12/marine_saw_122509w/
http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/2009/02/marine_newsaw_020109w/ "
Re: SAW replacement...
Wasn't there an upper for the M16 that was a belt fed? I seem to recalling pics, had drums that would attach via the mag well, with the belt feeding up the side of the weapon. I can't imagine that would be any more cumbersome than an M16 with a beta C mag loaded.
Wasn't there an upper for the M16 that was a belt fed? I seem to recalling pics, had drums that would attach via the mag well, with the belt feeding up the side of the weapon. I can't imagine that would be any more cumbersome than an M16 with a beta C mag loaded.
Re: SAW replacement...
So what I had read is that replacing a 30 rd magazine 3 times is faster than replacing a belt once.
So i guess the question is overall rate of fire (reloads included) vs weight. You save some weight going belt fed versus magazine fed, but how much less does a 416 wiegh than a 249?
And yes, the M4 mags will work in the M27, though PMags might be an issue.
So what I had read is that replacing a 30 rd magazine 3 times is faster than replacing a belt once.
So i guess the question is overall rate of fire (reloads included) vs weight. You save some weight going belt fed versus magazine fed, but how much less does a 416 wiegh than a 249?
And yes, the M4 mags will work in the M27, though PMags might be an issue.
Re: SAW replacement...
I'm sorry, but I never felt like the SAW was worth a damn. If they want a weapon to fill that role, they should adopt the Navy's Mk43. It's 7.62mm, much more reliable, and actually tracks well for a machinegun. Hell, I wish the Army would shitcan the SAWs for the Mk43.
I'm sorry, but I never felt like the SAW was worth a damn. If they want a weapon to fill that role, they should adopt the Navy's Mk43. It's 7.62mm, much more reliable, and actually tracks well for a machinegun. Hell, I wish the Army would shitcan the SAWs for the Mk43.
Re: SAW replacement...
You obviously don't spend much time dismounted. I've carried both the Mk 43 and 240, and I'd take the Mk 43 any day over the 240 for dismounted patrolling. 240's a fantastic weapon, especially mounted on a tripod or on a gun truck. But that Mk 43 never once failed when I was using it, it points and tracks like a champ, you can shoulder fire it, and it's not nearly as unwieldy as the 240 for squad movements. And don't compare the Mk 43 to the old school M60, that's like comparing our SOPMOD M4s to the M16A1.
You obviously don't spend much time dismounted. I've carried both the Mk 43 and 240, and I'd take the Mk 43 any day over the 240 for dismounted patrolling. 240's a fantastic weapon, especially mounted on a tripod or on a gun truck. But that Mk 43 never once failed when I was using it, it points and tracks like a champ, you can shoulder fire it, and it's not nearly as unwieldy as the 240 for squad movements. And don't compare the Mk 43 to the old school M60, that's like comparing our SOPMOD M4s to the M16A1.
Re: SAW replacement...
I have carried the 240MG. I can tell you its a heavy pig. I don't like the barrel change system on it. The 240MG is good at its job. Mounted is were it belongs. The squad needs an MG a light MG. I never liked the Belgian Minni. I prefer the Negev. I think it has a lot of features that the U.S. version does not have. I linked the site below.
http://www.israeli-weapons.com/
I have carried the 240MG. I can tell you its a heavy pig. I don't like the barrel change system on it. The 240MG is good at its job. Mounted is were it belongs. The squad needs an MG a light MG. I never liked the Belgian Minni. I prefer the Negev. I think it has a lot of features that the U.S. version does not have. I linked the site below.
http://www.israeli-weapons.com/
Re: SAW replacement...
Beta Mags are in the inventory with an NSN. I could see that 'auto rifle' with a Beta mag under it. At least they have a auto rifle and not the M16 like I started with. "LCpl, you're my auto rifleman" 'Aww crap, extra magazines this is gonna suck'. Got to KMCAS,"Lcpl, you are my aerial guns, go draw your M60D. You are on deck to get the class for tha GAU2B" 'Uh, gunny, what's a GAU 2B?' "Mini gun Son, Mini Gun" '
'
Some things are just so cool you gotta have them. I can see the need for a fast firing auto rifle with controlled firing, but if each squad had a 60, 240, basic GPMG that was light, compact and fired blizzards like the MG3 what else would you need?
Beta Mags are in the inventory with an NSN. I could see that 'auto rifle' with a Beta mag under it. At least they have a auto rifle and not the M16 like I started with. "LCpl, you're my auto rifleman" 'Aww crap, extra magazines this is gonna suck'. Got to KMCAS,"Lcpl, you are my aerial guns, go draw your M60D. You are on deck to get the class for tha GAU2B" 'Uh, gunny, what's a GAU 2B?' "Mini gun Son, Mini Gun" '
Some things are just so cool you gotta have them. I can see the need for a fast firing auto rifle with controlled firing, but if each squad had a 60, 240, basic GPMG that was light, compact and fired blizzards like the MG3 what else would you need?
Re: SAW replacement...
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/2811099/heckler_koch_hk416/
heres one with a beta mag.....
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/2811099/heckler_koch_hk416/
heres one with a beta mag.....
Re: SAW replacement...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DustyJacket</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If it is a 30 round 'like an M4' then how is this any better for the job than an M4?</div></div>
Short Stroke Piston Operated=Better Reliability compared to the Direct Impingement System. Also they have a faster cyclic rate. Check out he videos and stuff on youtube. I know when I get around to a M4 type weapon top of my list right now is the civvy version of the 416.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DustyJacket</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If it is a 30 round 'like an M4' then how is this any better for the job than an M4?</div></div>
Short Stroke Piston Operated=Better Reliability compared to the Direct Impingement System. Also they have a faster cyclic rate. Check out he videos and stuff on youtube. I know when I get around to a M4 type weapon top of my list right now is the civvy version of the 416.
Re: SAW replacement...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rero360</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wasn't there an upper for the M16 that was a belt fed? I seem to recalling pics, had drums that would attach via the mag well, with the belt feeding up the side of the weapon. I can't imagine that would be any more cumbersome than an M16 with a beta C mag loaded. </div></div>
Just found it, Called the Shrike, its actually shown on the right side of the screen under the shout box. I watched the youtube videos, looks pretty cool and would fit the role perfectly I think.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rero360</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wasn't there an upper for the M16 that was a belt fed? I seem to recalling pics, had drums that would attach via the mag well, with the belt feeding up the side of the weapon. I can't imagine that would be any more cumbersome than an M16 with a beta C mag loaded. </div></div>
Just found it, Called the Shrike, its actually shown on the right side of the screen under the shout box. I watched the youtube videos, looks pretty cool and would fit the role perfectly I think.
Re: SAW replacement...
His main worry is whether the M27's light weight and accuracy will be enough to make up for the <span style="font-size: 14pt"><span style="color: #FF0000">loss of suppressive firepower</span> </span> Marine gunners will give up when they go into battle without the belt-fed M249.
WTF? Why change it if it isnt' broke?
If they want to replace something replace the damn CH-46's that have been in operation since PRE-Vietnam days.
His main worry is whether the M27's light weight and accuracy will be enough to make up for the <span style="font-size: 14pt"><span style="color: #FF0000">loss of suppressive firepower</span> </span> Marine gunners will give up when they go into battle without the belt-fed M249.
WTF? Why change it if it isnt' broke?
If they want to replace something replace the damn CH-46's that have been in operation since PRE-Vietnam days.
Re: SAW replacement...
This was the fasted firing gun I ever had the pleasure to shoot. I am just pissed that the video of me shooting it was lost to my partner not taking off the camera lens cover
Light weight, adn wicked fast supression fire. It gives new meaning to 'Laying Scunion'
This was the fasted firing gun I ever had the pleasure to shoot. I am just pissed that the video of me shooting it was lost to my partner not taking off the camera lens cover
Light weight, adn wicked fast supression fire. It gives new meaning to 'Laying Scunion'
Re: SAW replacement...
BAR was too heavy, the round was too hot, and the magazines were too small. 'The Pig' was the best replacement for the BAR. For me, I would go for a 308 caliber semi auto rifle with a box mag feed(Beta MAg) and a good optic. Sure supressive fire is great and the need is there for a dedicated auto rifleman(which is why it has always been a aprt of the Marine Fire Team) but the ability to lay sustained, accurate fire is what kills our enemys the fastest.
BAR was too heavy, the round was too hot, and the magazines were too small. 'The Pig' was the best replacement for the BAR. For me, I would go for a 308 caliber semi auto rifle with a box mag feed(Beta MAg) and a good optic. Sure supressive fire is great and the need is there for a dedicated auto rifleman(which is why it has always been a aprt of the Marine Fire Team) but the ability to lay sustained, accurate fire is what kills our enemys the fastest.
