Is it ok to go ahead and get my lower engraved before the stamp comes back or should I wait till I have the stamp?
Suppressors Sbr engraving
- Thread starter gamhuntr
- Start date
Re: Sbr engraving
Yes, no problem getting a receiver engraved prior to receiving approval from the BATF that you can legally assemble an SBR.
You can engrave anything you want...for that matter. They can't stop you from engraving stupid shit on your receiver. Note that it also doesn't grant you the right to assemble an SBR...until you get that magical stamp.
EDIT FOR CLARITY: If you get it engraved prior...you still only have a standard receiver, as received from the manufacturer...with some pretty words engraved on the side. NO SBR UNTIL BATF SAYS SO.
Yes, no problem getting a receiver engraved prior to receiving approval from the BATF that you can legally assemble an SBR.
You can engrave anything you want...for that matter. They can't stop you from engraving stupid shit on your receiver. Note that it also doesn't grant you the right to assemble an SBR...until you get that magical stamp.
EDIT FOR CLARITY: If you get it engraved prior...you still only have a standard receiver, as received from the manufacturer...with some pretty words engraved on the side. NO SBR UNTIL BATF SAYS SO.
Re: Sbr engraving
I'm not sure if that is legal. Considering that the trigger guard isn't really the receiver. And in most cases, the trigger guard can be removed from the receiver.
I'm not sure if that is legal. Considering that the trigger guard isn't really the receiver. And in most cases, the trigger guard can be removed from the receiver.
Re: Sbr engraving
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Engrave your trigger guard</div></div>
I hope you meant inside the trigger well, because if not, quit fucking making shit up.
(1) By engraving, casting,
stamping (impressing), or otherwise
conspicuously placing or
causing to be engraved, cast,
stamped (impressed) or <span style="font-weight: bold">placed on
the frame or receiver thereof</span> an
individual serial number. The se92
rial number must be placed in a
manner not susceptible of being
<span style="font-weight: bold">readily obliterated, altered, or removed,</span>
and must not duplicate
any serial number placed by you
on any other firearm. For firearms
manufactured, imported, or made
on and after January 30, 2002,
the engraving, casting, or stamping
(impressing) of the serial
number must be to a minimum
depth of .003 inch and in a print
size no smaller than 1/16 inch;
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Engrave your trigger guard</div></div>
I hope you meant inside the trigger well, because if not, quit fucking making shit up.
(1) By engraving, casting,
stamping (impressing), or otherwise
conspicuously placing or
causing to be engraved, cast,
stamped (impressed) or <span style="font-weight: bold">placed on
the frame or receiver thereof</span> an
individual serial number. The se92
rial number must be placed in a
manner not susceptible of being
<span style="font-weight: bold">readily obliterated, altered, or removed,</span>
and must not duplicate
any serial number placed by you
on any other firearm. For firearms
manufactured, imported, or made
on and after January 30, 2002,
the engraving, casting, or stamping
(impressing) of the serial
number must be to a minimum
depth of .003 inch and in a print
size no smaller than 1/16 inch;
Re: Sbr engraving
highly recommend these guys:
http://www.identmarking.com/
They do outstanding work. They are somewhat local for me. I went by their shop and believe me, they aren't doing one or two receivers here and there. They do a ton of them.
highly recommend these guys:
http://www.identmarking.com/
They do outstanding work. They are somewhat local for me. I went by their shop and believe me, they aren't doing one or two receivers here and there. They do a ton of them.
Re: Sbr engraving
If you use the existing serial number
Name city and state does not have to be on the receiver
427 cobra is not making shit up
If you use the existing serial number
Name city and state does not have to be on the receiver
427 cobra is not making shit up
Re: Sbr engraving
Tagged for outcome and resolution. 737Shark, can we see the document you reference? I'm in the process of doing a Form 1 build and would LOVE to know for sure before I spend money incorrectly. Would love to engrave the trigger guard rather than the receiver.
Tagged for outcome and resolution. 737Shark, can we see the document you reference? I'm in the process of doing a Form 1 build and would LOVE to know for sure before I spend money incorrectly. Would love to engrave the trigger guard rather than the receiver.
Re: Sbr engraving
Sorry, I didn't capture the whole excerpt from 479.102. By converting an existing lower receiver to an SBR, you become the "manufacturer". You name (or trust) and your location at the time of the conversion go on the receiver. Colt/DD/BCM/Rock River did not make it an SBR, you did.
(iii) Your name (or recognized
abbreviation) and also,
when applicable, the name of
the foreign manufacturer or
maker;
(iv) In the case of a domestically
made firearm, the city
and State (or recognized abbreviation
thereof) where you
as the manufacturer maintain
your place of business, or
where you, as the maker, made
the firearm;
And from a practical approach, if the above were not the case, why does Orion Arms show SBR engraving in alternate positions from the left side of the mag well? Because the original manufacturer's information is there.
http://www.orion-arms.com/gun-engraving/short-barrel-rifle-engraving-locations.html
Sorry, I didn't capture the whole excerpt from 479.102. By converting an existing lower receiver to an SBR, you become the "manufacturer". You name (or trust) and your location at the time of the conversion go on the receiver. Colt/DD/BCM/Rock River did not make it an SBR, you did.
(iii) Your name (or recognized
abbreviation) and also,
when applicable, the name of
the foreign manufacturer or
maker;
(iv) In the case of a domestically
made firearm, the city
and State (or recognized abbreviation
thereof) where you
as the manufacturer maintain
your place of business, or
where you, as the maker, made
the firearm;
And from a practical approach, if the above were not the case, why does Orion Arms show SBR engraving in alternate positions from the left side of the mag well? Because the original manufacturer's information is there.
http://www.orion-arms.com/gun-engraving/short-barrel-rifle-engraving-locations.html
Re: Sbr engraving
no...you become the "maker" of the NFA item... the "manufacturer" of the firearm remains the same... as the "maker" you also have to engrave your city and state and name....
no...you become the "maker" of the NFA item... the "manufacturer" of the firearm remains the same... as the "maker" you also have to engrave your city and state and name....
Re: Sbr engraving
ptotato potahto
That was the point I was trying to make - you are the one making it an NFA item.
ptotato potahto
Re: Sbr engraving
From what I have read and seem to understand the name, city and state of the "maker" (form 1 applicant) of the firearm (complete firearm not just lower receiver) must be engraved somewhere visible on the firearm. Whether it be barrel, lower, upper, trigger guard doesn't matter. The SBR is the complete firearm not just the lower not just the upper or barrel it is when all these are put together. If have an 8" barrel in my safe it isn't an NFA item nor is a complete lower. Now when I put the barrel, lower, and upper together = SBR.... my .02
on edit..
Also follow the Orion Arms link down the page to other SBRs and see barrel and upper receiver engravings also. Not on ar's, but SBR all the same.
From what I have read and seem to understand the name, city and state of the "maker" (form 1 applicant) of the firearm (complete firearm not just lower receiver) must be engraved somewhere visible on the firearm. Whether it be barrel, lower, upper, trigger guard doesn't matter. The SBR is the complete firearm not just the lower not just the upper or barrel it is when all these are put together. If have an 8" barrel in my safe it isn't an NFA item nor is a complete lower. Now when I put the barrel, lower, and upper together = SBR.... my .02
on edit..
Also follow the Orion Arms link down the page to other SBRs and see barrel and upper receiver engravings also. Not on ar's, but SBR all the same.
Re: Sbr engraving
The lower is the controlled, registered and serial numbered part. You can use multiple short uppers on the same registered lower. Reading your explanation, one would have to engrave the "maker" info on every short upper they have.
The lower is the controlled, registered and serial numbered part. You can use multiple short uppers on the same registered lower. Reading your explanation, one would have to engrave the "maker" info on every short upper they have.
Re: Sbr engraving
No just return the firearm to its original configuration (as declared on form 1) if needed for ATF inspection.
No just return the firearm to its original configuration (as declared on form 1) if needed for ATF inspection.
Re: Sbr engraving
Only the serial number has to be on the receiver
Only the serial number has to be on the receiver
Re: Sbr engraving
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: springer01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">From what I have read and seem to understand the name, city and state of the "maker" (form 1 applicant) of the firearm (complete firearm not just lower receiver) must be engraved somewhere visible on the firearm. Whether it be barrel, lower, upper, trigger guard doesn't matter. The SBR is the complete firearm not just the lower not just the upper or barrel it is when all these are put together. If have an 8" barrel in my safe it isn't an NFA item nor is a complete lower. Now when I put the barrel, lower, and upper together = SBR.... my .02
on edit..
Also follow the Orion Arms link down the page to other SBRs and see barrel and upper receiver engravings also. Not on ar's, but SBR all the same. </div></div>I think your understanding is incorrect. The Orion page has SPECIFIC locations where they will engrave for an SBR and they are ALL on the LOWER. Other firearms have no bearing on the discussion if we are talking about an AR-15 or AR-10 type platform. It is illegal to possess a SBR upper if you do not have a registered SBR lower OR pistol lower when talking about AR-15s.
You need to be more careful when handing out "advice". Someone might believe you and get into a lot of trouble.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: springer01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">From what I have read and seem to understand the name, city and state of the "maker" (form 1 applicant) of the firearm (complete firearm not just lower receiver) must be engraved somewhere visible on the firearm. Whether it be barrel, lower, upper, trigger guard doesn't matter. The SBR is the complete firearm not just the lower not just the upper or barrel it is when all these are put together. If have an 8" barrel in my safe it isn't an NFA item nor is a complete lower. Now when I put the barrel, lower, and upper together = SBR.... my .02
on edit..
Also follow the Orion Arms link down the page to other SBRs and see barrel and upper receiver engravings also. Not on ar's, but SBR all the same. </div></div>I think your understanding is incorrect. The Orion page has SPECIFIC locations where they will engrave for an SBR and they are ALL on the LOWER. Other firearms have no bearing on the discussion if we are talking about an AR-15 or AR-10 type platform. It is illegal to possess a SBR upper if you do not have a registered SBR lower OR pistol lower when talking about AR-15s.
You need to be more careful when handing out "advice". Someone might believe you and get into a lot of trouble.
Re: Sbr engraving
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LocoGringo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: springer01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">From what I have read and seem to understand the name, city and state of the "maker" (form 1 applicant) of the firearm (complete firearm not just lower receiver) must be engraved somewhere visible on the firearm. Whether it be barrel, lower, upper, trigger guard doesn't matter. The SBR is the complete firearm not just the lower not just the upper or barrel it is when all these are put together. If have an 8" barrel in my safe it isn't an NFA item nor is a complete lower. Now when I put the barrel, lower, and upper together = SBR.... my .02
on edit..
Also follow the Orion Arms link down the page to other SBRs and see barrel and upper receiver engravings also. Not on ar's, but SBR all the same. </div></div>I think your understand is incorrect. The Orion page has SPECIFIC locations where they will engrave for an SBR and they are ALL on the LOWER. Other firearms have no bearing on the discussion if we are talking about an AR-15 or AR-10 type platform. It is illegal to possess a SBR upper if you do not have a registered SBR lower OR pistol lower when talking about AR-15s.
You need to be more careful when handing out "advice". Someone might believe you and get into a lot of trouble.</div></div>
it is NOT illegal to possess an upper w/ a barrel under 16" "if you do not have a registered lower OR pistol lower"
it only becomes illegal IF you have a non SBR rifle lower, then you are in "constructive possession"... if you have an upper and NO lower, or an incomplete lower W/O a buffer tube, that has never been designated as a rifle, it's perfectly legal
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LocoGringo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: springer01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">From what I have read and seem to understand the name, city and state of the "maker" (form 1 applicant) of the firearm (complete firearm not just lower receiver) must be engraved somewhere visible on the firearm. Whether it be barrel, lower, upper, trigger guard doesn't matter. The SBR is the complete firearm not just the lower not just the upper or barrel it is when all these are put together. If have an 8" barrel in my safe it isn't an NFA item nor is a complete lower. Now when I put the barrel, lower, and upper together = SBR.... my .02
on edit..
Also follow the Orion Arms link down the page to other SBRs and see barrel and upper receiver engravings also. Not on ar's, but SBR all the same. </div></div>I think your understand is incorrect. The Orion page has SPECIFIC locations where they will engrave for an SBR and they are ALL on the LOWER. Other firearms have no bearing on the discussion if we are talking about an AR-15 or AR-10 type platform. It is illegal to possess a SBR upper if you do not have a registered SBR lower OR pistol lower when talking about AR-15s.
You need to be more careful when handing out "advice". Someone might believe you and get into a lot of trouble.</div></div>
it is NOT illegal to possess an upper w/ a barrel under 16" "if you do not have a registered lower OR pistol lower"
it only becomes illegal IF you have a non SBR rifle lower, then you are in "constructive possession"... if you have an upper and NO lower, or an incomplete lower W/O a buffer tube, that has never been designated as a rifle, it's perfectly legal
Re: Sbr engraving
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Force_Multiplier</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LocoGringo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: springer01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">From what I have read and seem to understand the name, city and state of the "maker" (form 1 applicant) of the firearm (complete firearm not just lower receiver) must be engraved somewhere visible on the firearm. Whether it be barrel, lower, upper, trigger guard doesn't matter. The SBR is the complete firearm not just the lower not just the upper or barrel it is when all these are put together. If have an 8" barrel in my safe it isn't an NFA item nor is a complete lower. Now when I put the barrel, lower, and upper together = SBR.... my .02
on edit..
Also follow the Orion Arms link down the page to other SBRs and see barrel and upper receiver engravings also. Not on ar's, but SBR all the same. </div></div>I think your understand is incorrect. The Orion page has SPECIFIC locations where they will engrave for an SBR and they are ALL on the LOWER. Other firearms have no bearing on the discussion if we are talking about an AR-15 or AR-10 type platform. It is illegal to possess a SBR upper if you do not have a registered SBR lower OR pistol lower when talking about AR-15s.
You need to be more careful when handing out "advice". Someone might believe you and get into a lot of trouble.</div></div>
it is NOT illegal to possess an upper w/ a barrel under 16" "if you do not have a registered lower OR pistol lower"
it only becomes illegal IF you have a non SBR rifle lower, then you are in "constructive possession"... if you have an upper and NO lower, <span style="color: #CC0000">or an incomplete lower W/O a buffer tube, that has never been designated as a rifle, it's perfectly legal</span> </div></div>
That's not accurate. If you have an upper that is under the legal limit of 16" that is fine as long as you have a pistol lower handy. If you have spare lowers completed or not they can always nail you with "intent to assemble un unregistered item". Especially if it is partially complete. Buffer tube or not, its still a lower. These are kit rifles and can be assembled and disassembled in minutes.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Force_Multiplier</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LocoGringo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: springer01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">From what I have read and seem to understand the name, city and state of the "maker" (form 1 applicant) of the firearm (complete firearm not just lower receiver) must be engraved somewhere visible on the firearm. Whether it be barrel, lower, upper, trigger guard doesn't matter. The SBR is the complete firearm not just the lower not just the upper or barrel it is when all these are put together. If have an 8" barrel in my safe it isn't an NFA item nor is a complete lower. Now when I put the barrel, lower, and upper together = SBR.... my .02
on edit..
Also follow the Orion Arms link down the page to other SBRs and see barrel and upper receiver engravings also. Not on ar's, but SBR all the same. </div></div>I think your understand is incorrect. The Orion page has SPECIFIC locations where they will engrave for an SBR and they are ALL on the LOWER. Other firearms have no bearing on the discussion if we are talking about an AR-15 or AR-10 type platform. It is illegal to possess a SBR upper if you do not have a registered SBR lower OR pistol lower when talking about AR-15s.
You need to be more careful when handing out "advice". Someone might believe you and get into a lot of trouble.</div></div>
it is NOT illegal to possess an upper w/ a barrel under 16" "if you do not have a registered lower OR pistol lower"
it only becomes illegal IF you have a non SBR rifle lower, then you are in "constructive possession"... if you have an upper and NO lower, <span style="color: #CC0000">or an incomplete lower W/O a buffer tube, that has never been designated as a rifle, it's perfectly legal</span> </div></div>
That's not accurate. If you have an upper that is under the legal limit of 16" that is fine as long as you have a pistol lower handy. If you have spare lowers completed or not they can always nail you with "intent to assemble un unregistered item". Especially if it is partially complete. Buffer tube or not, its still a lower. These are kit rifles and can be assembled and disassembled in minutes.
Re: Sbr engraving
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 737SHARK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Only the serial number has to be on the receiver </div></div>
You sure about that? Part of the Form 1 is to write out what will be engraved on the item. And you do have to put the maker's name and city/state. They even have specs as to what size and depth the engraving must be.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 737SHARK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Only the serial number has to be on the receiver </div></div>
You sure about that? Part of the Form 1 is to write out what will be engraved on the item. And you do have to put the maker's name and city/state. They even have specs as to what size and depth the engraving must be.
Re: Sbr engraving
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYS338</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Force_Multiplier</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LocoGringo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think your understanding is incorrect. The Orion page has SPECIFIC locations where they will engrave for an SBR and they are ALL on the LOWER. Other firearms have no bearing on the discussion if we are talking about an AR-15 or AR-10 type platform. It is illegal to possess a SBR upper if you do not have a registered SBR lower OR pistol lower when talking about AR-15s.
You need to be more careful when handing out "advice". Someone might believe you and get into a lot of trouble.</div></div>
it is NOT illegal to possess an upper w/ a barrel under 16" "if you do not have a registered lower OR pistol lower"
it only becomes illegal IF you have a non SBR rifle lower, then you are in "constructive possession"... if you have an upper and NO lower, <span style="color: #CC0000">or an incomplete lower W/O a buffer tube, that has never been designated as a rifle, it's perfectly legal</span> </div></div>
That's not accurate. If you have an upper that is under the legal limit of 16" that is fine as long as you have a pistol lower handy. If you have spare lowers completed or not they can always nail you with "intent to assemble un unregistered item". Especially if it is partially complete. Buffer tube or not, its still a lower. These are kit rifles and can be assembled and disassembled in minutes. </div></div>You guys are right (constructive possession). I forgot a non SBR lower or rifle needing to be in possession as well. I assumed (incorrectly) that the person already had an AR-15 rifle. That's an important part.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYS338</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Force_Multiplier</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LocoGringo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think your understanding is incorrect. The Orion page has SPECIFIC locations where they will engrave for an SBR and they are ALL on the LOWER. Other firearms have no bearing on the discussion if we are talking about an AR-15 or AR-10 type platform. It is illegal to possess a SBR upper if you do not have a registered SBR lower OR pistol lower when talking about AR-15s.
You need to be more careful when handing out "advice". Someone might believe you and get into a lot of trouble.</div></div>
it is NOT illegal to possess an upper w/ a barrel under 16" "if you do not have a registered lower OR pistol lower"
it only becomes illegal IF you have a non SBR rifle lower, then you are in "constructive possession"... if you have an upper and NO lower, <span style="color: #CC0000">or an incomplete lower W/O a buffer tube, that has never been designated as a rifle, it's perfectly legal</span> </div></div>
That's not accurate. If you have an upper that is under the legal limit of 16" that is fine as long as you have a pistol lower handy. If you have spare lowers completed or not they can always nail you with "intent to assemble un unregistered item". Especially if it is partially complete. Buffer tube or not, its still a lower. These are kit rifles and can be assembled and disassembled in minutes. </div></div>You guys are right (constructive possession). I forgot a non SBR lower or rifle needing to be in possession as well. I assumed (incorrectly) that the person already had an AR-15 rifle. That's an important part.
Re: Sbr engraving
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LocoGringo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: springer01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">From what I have read and seem to understand the name, city and state of the "maker" (form 1 applicant) of the firearm (complete firearm not just lower receiver) must be engraved somewhere visible on the firearm. Whether it be barrel, lower, upper, trigger guard doesn't matter. The SBR is the complete firearm not just the lower not just the upper or barrel it is when all these are put together. If have an 8" barrel in my safe it isn't an NFA item nor is a complete lower. Now when I put the barrel, lower, and upper together = SBR.... my .02
on edit..
Also follow the Orion Arms link down the page to other SBRs and see barrel and upper receiver engravings also. Not on ar's, but SBR all the same. </div></div>I think your understanding is incorrect. The Orion page has SPECIFIC locations where they will engrave for an SBR and they are ALL on the LOWER. Other firearms have no bearing on the discussion if we are talking about an AR-15 or AR-10 type platform. It is illegal to possess a SBR upper if you do not have a registered SBR lower OR pistol lower when talking about AR-15s.
You need to be more careful when handing out "advice". Someone might believe you and get into a lot of trouble.</div></div>
Maybe you should follow your own "advice", because it is perfectly legal to own 100 SBR uppers as long as you haven't got a lower. And what difference does is make if it is an AR or a SIG 556 an SBR is an SBR. Besides most semi auto rifles are pretty similar consisting of a upper, lower, barrel, and stock. And most importantly I never "advised" anyone of what or how to do something. I stated this is how I (meaning me, and myself only), understood this process. This is a discussion on SBR engraving and I am discussing it like everyone else not advising anyone on what to do!
Also rereading Orion Arms site it only says that these are STANDARD engraving locations not "SPECIFIC" locations as you stated. So again your "advice" is also wrong.....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LocoGringo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: springer01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">From what I have read and seem to understand the name, city and state of the "maker" (form 1 applicant) of the firearm (complete firearm not just lower receiver) must be engraved somewhere visible on the firearm. Whether it be barrel, lower, upper, trigger guard doesn't matter. The SBR is the complete firearm not just the lower not just the upper or barrel it is when all these are put together. If have an 8" barrel in my safe it isn't an NFA item nor is a complete lower. Now when I put the barrel, lower, and upper together = SBR.... my .02
on edit..
Also follow the Orion Arms link down the page to other SBRs and see barrel and upper receiver engravings also. Not on ar's, but SBR all the same. </div></div>I think your understanding is incorrect. The Orion page has SPECIFIC locations where they will engrave for an SBR and they are ALL on the LOWER. Other firearms have no bearing on the discussion if we are talking about an AR-15 or AR-10 type platform. It is illegal to possess a SBR upper if you do not have a registered SBR lower OR pistol lower when talking about AR-15s.
You need to be more careful when handing out "advice". Someone might believe you and get into a lot of trouble.</div></div>
Maybe you should follow your own "advice", because it is perfectly legal to own 100 SBR uppers as long as you haven't got a lower. And what difference does is make if it is an AR or a SIG 556 an SBR is an SBR. Besides most semi auto rifles are pretty similar consisting of a upper, lower, barrel, and stock. And most importantly I never "advised" anyone of what or how to do something. I stated this is how I (meaning me, and myself only), understood this process. This is a discussion on SBR engraving and I am discussing it like everyone else not advising anyone on what to do!
Also rereading Orion Arms site it only says that these are STANDARD engraving locations not "SPECIFIC" locations as you stated. So again your "advice" is also wrong.....
Re: Sbr engraving
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: springer01</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LocoGringo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: springer01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">From what I have read and seem to understand the name, city and state of the "maker" (form 1 applicant) of the firearm (complete firearm not just lower receiver) must be engraved somewhere visible on the firearm. Whether it be barrel, lower, upper, trigger guard doesn't matter. The SBR is the complete firearm not just the lower not just the upper or barrel it is when all these are put together. If have an 8" barrel in my safe it isn't an NFA item nor is a complete lower. Now when I put the barrel, lower, and upper together = SBR.... my .02
on edit..
Also follow the Orion Arms link down the page to other SBRs and see barrel and upper receiver engravings also. Not on ar's, but SBR all the same. </div></div>I think your understanding is incorrect. The Orion page has SPECIFIC locations where they will engrave for an SBR and they are ALL on the LOWER. Other firearms have no bearing on the discussion if we are talking about an AR-15 or AR-10 type platform. It is illegal to possess a SBR upper if you do not have a registered SBR lower OR pistol lower when talking about AR-15s.
You need to be more careful when handing out "advice". Someone might believe you and get into a lot of trouble.</div></div>
Maybe you should follow your own "advice", because it is perfectly legal to own 100 SBR uppers as long as you haven't got a lower. And what difference does is make if it is an AR or a SIG 556 an SBR is an SBR. Besides most semi auto rifles are pretty similar consisting of a upper, lower, barrel, and stock. And most importantly I never "advised" anyone of what or how to do something. I stated this is how I (meaning me, and myself only), understood this process. This is a discussion on SBR engraving and I am discussing it like everyone else not advising anyone on what to do!
Also rereading Orion Arms site it only says that these are STANDARD engraving locations not "SPECIFIC" locations as you stated. So again your "advice" is also wrong..... </div></div>Not going to get into a pissing match with you, but apparently you didn't read the post before your newest one where I acknowledge my mistake about having a fully assembled AR or lower in your possession making it illegal to have a SBR upper.
The reason the type of rifle has bearing is because of the construction and design of the rifle. The serial number on all AR's that I know of is on the lower (specifically, left side magwell) which is why the <span style="text-decoration: underline">lower</span> has to be registered as an SBR lower. You can engrave anywhere you want, but it has to also be engraved on the same part the serial number is stamped or engraved (I assume so that the info will not be separated such as a lower/upper can be) which is why I'm interested in knowing if it truly is legal to have the Form 1 info engraved on the trigger guard because the guard is so easily removed. If you want to engrave every part of your SBR, go ahead and knock yourself out. As for me, I don't want to spend the extra money when it isn't necessary. I just want to fulfill the minimum necessary to follow the law and keep things legal. However, I don't like the idea of engraving the lower with my name and location permanently if another option that is legal is available (trigger guard). Maybe one day it will get passed on to my son and upon legal transfer, he can simply change the trigger guard and my name will not be anywhere on the rifle.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: springer01</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LocoGringo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: springer01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">From what I have read and seem to understand the name, city and state of the "maker" (form 1 applicant) of the firearm (complete firearm not just lower receiver) must be engraved somewhere visible on the firearm. Whether it be barrel, lower, upper, trigger guard doesn't matter. The SBR is the complete firearm not just the lower not just the upper or barrel it is when all these are put together. If have an 8" barrel in my safe it isn't an NFA item nor is a complete lower. Now when I put the barrel, lower, and upper together = SBR.... my .02
on edit..
Also follow the Orion Arms link down the page to other SBRs and see barrel and upper receiver engravings also. Not on ar's, but SBR all the same. </div></div>I think your understanding is incorrect. The Orion page has SPECIFIC locations where they will engrave for an SBR and they are ALL on the LOWER. Other firearms have no bearing on the discussion if we are talking about an AR-15 or AR-10 type platform. It is illegal to possess a SBR upper if you do not have a registered SBR lower OR pistol lower when talking about AR-15s.
You need to be more careful when handing out "advice". Someone might believe you and get into a lot of trouble.</div></div>
Maybe you should follow your own "advice", because it is perfectly legal to own 100 SBR uppers as long as you haven't got a lower. And what difference does is make if it is an AR or a SIG 556 an SBR is an SBR. Besides most semi auto rifles are pretty similar consisting of a upper, lower, barrel, and stock. And most importantly I never "advised" anyone of what or how to do something. I stated this is how I (meaning me, and myself only), understood this process. This is a discussion on SBR engraving and I am discussing it like everyone else not advising anyone on what to do!
Also rereading Orion Arms site it only says that these are STANDARD engraving locations not "SPECIFIC" locations as you stated. So again your "advice" is also wrong..... </div></div>Not going to get into a pissing match with you, but apparently you didn't read the post before your newest one where I acknowledge my mistake about having a fully assembled AR or lower in your possession making it illegal to have a SBR upper.
The reason the type of rifle has bearing is because of the construction and design of the rifle. The serial number on all AR's that I know of is on the lower (specifically, left side magwell) which is why the <span style="text-decoration: underline">lower</span> has to be registered as an SBR lower. You can engrave anywhere you want, but it has to also be engraved on the same part the serial number is stamped or engraved (I assume so that the info will not be separated such as a lower/upper can be) which is why I'm interested in knowing if it truly is legal to have the Form 1 info engraved on the trigger guard because the guard is so easily removed. If you want to engrave every part of your SBR, go ahead and knock yourself out. As for me, I don't want to spend the extra money when it isn't necessary. I just want to fulfill the minimum necessary to follow the law and keep things legal. However, I don't like the idea of engraving the lower with my name and location permanently if another option that is legal is available (trigger guard). Maybe one day it will get passed on to my son and upon legal transfer, he can simply change the trigger guard and my name will not be anywhere on the rifle.
Re: Sbr engraving
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LocoGringo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: springer01</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LocoGringo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: springer01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">From what I have read and seem to understand the name, city and state of the "maker" (form 1 applicant) of the firearm (complete firearm not just lower receiver) must be engraved somewhere visible on the firearm. Whether it be barrel, lower, upper, trigger guard doesn't matter. The SBR is the complete firearm not just the lower not just the upper or barrel it is when all these are put together. If have an 8" barrel in my safe it isn't an NFA item nor is a complete lower. Now when I put the barrel, lower, and upper together = SBR.... my .02
on edit..
Also follow the Orion Arms link down the page to other SBRs and see barrel and upper receiver engravings also. Not on ar's, but SBR all the same. </div></div>I think your understanding is incorrect. The Orion page has SPECIFIC locations where they will engrave for an SBR and they are ALL on the LOWER. Other firearms have no bearing on the discussion if we are talking about an AR-15 or AR-10 type platform. It is illegal to possess a SBR upper if you do not have a registered SBR lower OR pistol lower when talking about AR-15s.
You need to be more careful when handing out "advice". Someone might believe you and get into a lot of trouble.</div></div>
Maybe you should follow your own "advice", because it is perfectly legal to own 100 SBR uppers as long as you haven't got a lower. And what difference does is make if it is an AR or a SIG 556 an SBR is an SBR. Besides most semi auto rifles are pretty similar consisting of a upper, lower, barrel, and stock. And most importantly I never "advised" anyone of what or how to do something. I stated this is how I (meaning me, and myself only), understood this process. This is a discussion on SBR engraving and I am discussing it like everyone else not advising anyone on what to do!
Also rereading Orion Arms site it only says that these are STANDARD engraving locations not "SPECIFIC" locations as you stated. So again your "advice" is also wrong..... </div></div><span style="color: #FF0000">Not going to get into a pissing match with you</span>, but apparently you didn't read the post before your newest one where I acknowledge my mistake about having a fully assembled AR or lower in your possession making it illegal to have a SBR upper.
The reason the type of rifle has bearing is because of the construction and design of the rifle. The serial number on all AR's that I know of is on the lower (specifically, left side magwell) which is why the <span style="text-decoration: underline">lower</span> has to be registered as an SBR lower. You can engrave anywhere you want, but <span style="color: #FF0000">it has to also be engraved on the same part the serial number is stamped or engraved </span>(I assume so that the info will not be separated such as a lower/upper can be) which is why I'm interested in knowing if it truly is legal to have the Form 1 info engraved on the trigger guard because the guard is so easily removed. If you want to engrave every part of your SBR, go ahead and knock yourself out. As for me, I don't want to spend the extra money when it isn't necessary. I just want to fulfill the minimum necessary to follow the law and keep things legal. However, I don't like the idea of engraving the lower with my name and location permanently if another option that is legal is available (trigger guard). Maybe one day it will get passed on to my son and <span style="color: #FF0000">upon legal transfer, he can simply change the trigger guard and my name will not be anywhere on the rifle</span>. </div></div>
1.Good idea, and when you call someone out what do you expect?
2. Where does the ATF state this? Directly from ATF FAQ ...While a receiver alone may be classified as a “firearm” under the Gun Control Act (GCA), SBRs and SBSs are classified in totality under the National Firearms Act (NFA). A firearm that meets the definition of a SBR consists of a rifle that has a barrel less than 16 inches in length.
3. Your info will have to stay regardless if it is still an SBR because you are still the maker of said firearm.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LocoGringo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: springer01</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LocoGringo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: springer01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">From what I have read and seem to understand the name, city and state of the "maker" (form 1 applicant) of the firearm (complete firearm not just lower receiver) must be engraved somewhere visible on the firearm. Whether it be barrel, lower, upper, trigger guard doesn't matter. The SBR is the complete firearm not just the lower not just the upper or barrel it is when all these are put together. If have an 8" barrel in my safe it isn't an NFA item nor is a complete lower. Now when I put the barrel, lower, and upper together = SBR.... my .02
on edit..
Also follow the Orion Arms link down the page to other SBRs and see barrel and upper receiver engravings also. Not on ar's, but SBR all the same. </div></div>I think your understanding is incorrect. The Orion page has SPECIFIC locations where they will engrave for an SBR and they are ALL on the LOWER. Other firearms have no bearing on the discussion if we are talking about an AR-15 or AR-10 type platform. It is illegal to possess a SBR upper if you do not have a registered SBR lower OR pistol lower when talking about AR-15s.
You need to be more careful when handing out "advice". Someone might believe you and get into a lot of trouble.</div></div>
Maybe you should follow your own "advice", because it is perfectly legal to own 100 SBR uppers as long as you haven't got a lower. And what difference does is make if it is an AR or a SIG 556 an SBR is an SBR. Besides most semi auto rifles are pretty similar consisting of a upper, lower, barrel, and stock. And most importantly I never "advised" anyone of what or how to do something. I stated this is how I (meaning me, and myself only), understood this process. This is a discussion on SBR engraving and I am discussing it like everyone else not advising anyone on what to do!
Also rereading Orion Arms site it only says that these are STANDARD engraving locations not "SPECIFIC" locations as you stated. So again your "advice" is also wrong..... </div></div><span style="color: #FF0000">Not going to get into a pissing match with you</span>, but apparently you didn't read the post before your newest one where I acknowledge my mistake about having a fully assembled AR or lower in your possession making it illegal to have a SBR upper.
The reason the type of rifle has bearing is because of the construction and design of the rifle. The serial number on all AR's that I know of is on the lower (specifically, left side magwell) which is why the <span style="text-decoration: underline">lower</span> has to be registered as an SBR lower. You can engrave anywhere you want, but <span style="color: #FF0000">it has to also be engraved on the same part the serial number is stamped or engraved </span>(I assume so that the info will not be separated such as a lower/upper can be) which is why I'm interested in knowing if it truly is legal to have the Form 1 info engraved on the trigger guard because the guard is so easily removed. If you want to engrave every part of your SBR, go ahead and knock yourself out. As for me, I don't want to spend the extra money when it isn't necessary. I just want to fulfill the minimum necessary to follow the law and keep things legal. However, I don't like the idea of engraving the lower with my name and location permanently if another option that is legal is available (trigger guard). Maybe one day it will get passed on to my son and <span style="color: #FF0000">upon legal transfer, he can simply change the trigger guard and my name will not be anywhere on the rifle</span>. </div></div>
1.Good idea, and when you call someone out what do you expect?
2. Where does the ATF state this? Directly from ATF FAQ ...While a receiver alone may be classified as a “firearm” under the Gun Control Act (GCA), SBRs and SBSs are classified in totality under the National Firearms Act (NFA). A firearm that meets the definition of a SBR consists of a rifle that has a barrel less than 16 inches in length.
3. Your info will have to stay regardless if it is still an SBR because you are still the maker of said firearm.
Re: Sbr engraving
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LocoGringo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The reason the type of rifle has bearing is because of the construction and design of the rifle. The serial number on all AR's that I know of is on the lower (specifically, left side magwell) which is why the <span style="text-decoration: underline">lower</span> has to be registered as an SBR lower. You can engrave anywhere you want, but it has to also be engraved on the same part the serial number is stamped or engraved (I assume so that the info will not be separated such as a lower/upper can be) which is why I'm interested in knowing if it truly is legal to have the Form 1 info engraved on the trigger guard because the guard is so easily removed. If you want to engrave every part of your SBR, go ahead and knock yourself out. As for me, I don't want to spend the extra money when it isn't necessary. I just want to fulfill the minimum necessary to follow the law and keep things legal. However, I don't like the idea of engraving the lower with my name and location permanently if another option that is legal is available (trigger guard). Maybe one day it will get passed on to my son and upon legal transfer, he can simply change the trigger guard and my name will not be anywhere on the rifle. </div></div>
This is not correct. It makes no difference at all where the original markings were and according to the regulations only the serial number is required to be on the receiver. The AR is no different than any other firearm as far as the regs go. You can put the makers name, city and state, cal and model on the barrel, frame or receiver. That means you can legally put everything but the serial number on the barrel or upper. Nothing in the regs specifies that you must mark where the manufacturer put their info. It is also untrue that the lower is "THE" controlled part of an SBR. Its simply a receiver. You use the serial from the receiver for registration simply because the serial is required to be on the receiver and you can't fill out the paperwork without it. With no short barrel it is not an SBR. You can't register an "SBR Lower" or an "SBR Upper" as one without the other does not require registration. Removing one or the other and disposing of it removes the requirement for registration and you no longer have an NFA weapon. All of this info is readily available on the ATF's FAQ for SBR's and SBS's. Do a google search and you'll find it. There is a lot of misinformation out there about the short barreled firearms and all NFA for that matter. Its not as complex as some make it out though it frequently is not logical and makes no real sense.
Frank
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LocoGringo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The reason the type of rifle has bearing is because of the construction and design of the rifle. The serial number on all AR's that I know of is on the lower (specifically, left side magwell) which is why the <span style="text-decoration: underline">lower</span> has to be registered as an SBR lower. You can engrave anywhere you want, but it has to also be engraved on the same part the serial number is stamped or engraved (I assume so that the info will not be separated such as a lower/upper can be) which is why I'm interested in knowing if it truly is legal to have the Form 1 info engraved on the trigger guard because the guard is so easily removed. If you want to engrave every part of your SBR, go ahead and knock yourself out. As for me, I don't want to spend the extra money when it isn't necessary. I just want to fulfill the minimum necessary to follow the law and keep things legal. However, I don't like the idea of engraving the lower with my name and location permanently if another option that is legal is available (trigger guard). Maybe one day it will get passed on to my son and upon legal transfer, he can simply change the trigger guard and my name will not be anywhere on the rifle. </div></div>
This is not correct. It makes no difference at all where the original markings were and according to the regulations only the serial number is required to be on the receiver. The AR is no different than any other firearm as far as the regs go. You can put the makers name, city and state, cal and model on the barrel, frame or receiver. That means you can legally put everything but the serial number on the barrel or upper. Nothing in the regs specifies that you must mark where the manufacturer put their info. It is also untrue that the lower is "THE" controlled part of an SBR. Its simply a receiver. You use the serial from the receiver for registration simply because the serial is required to be on the receiver and you can't fill out the paperwork without it. With no short barrel it is not an SBR. You can't register an "SBR Lower" or an "SBR Upper" as one without the other does not require registration. Removing one or the other and disposing of it removes the requirement for registration and you no longer have an NFA weapon. All of this info is readily available on the ATF's FAQ for SBR's and SBS's. Do a google search and you'll find it. There is a lot of misinformation out there about the short barreled firearms and all NFA for that matter. Its not as complex as some make it out though it frequently is not logical and makes no real sense.
Frank
Re: Sbr engraving
Quote from page 43-44 of the NFA handbook
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">7.4.1 <span style="font-weight: bold">Serial numbers</span>. Each manufacturer of a firearm must legibly identify it by engraving, stamping (impressing), or otherwise conspicuously placing on the firearm’s frame or receiver an individual serial number not duplicating any serial number placed by the manufacturer on any other firearm. The requirement that the marking be "conspicuously” placed on the firearm means that the marking must be wholly unobstructed from plain view. For firearms manufactured on or after January 30, 2002, the serial number must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch and in a print size no smaller than 1/16 inch.
<span style="font-weight: bold">7.4.2 Additional information</span>. Certain additional information must also be conspicuously placed on the frame, receiver, or barrel of the firearm by engraving, casting, stamping (impressing), that is, they must be placed in such a manner that they are wholly unobstructed from plain view. For firearms manufactured on or after January 30, 2002, this information must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch.
The additional information includes:
(1) The model, if such designation has been made;
(2) The caliber or gauge;
(3) The manufacturer’s name (or recognized abbreviation); and
(4) The city and State (or recognized abbreviation) where the manufacturer maintains its place
of business.122</div></div>
Serial number is the only thing that has to be on the frame. Manufactures name, city, state, and caliber can be on the upper, barrel, ect.
Quote from page 43-44 of the NFA handbook
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">7.4.1 <span style="font-weight: bold">Serial numbers</span>. Each manufacturer of a firearm must legibly identify it by engraving, stamping (impressing), or otherwise conspicuously placing on the firearm’s frame or receiver an individual serial number not duplicating any serial number placed by the manufacturer on any other firearm. The requirement that the marking be "conspicuously” placed on the firearm means that the marking must be wholly unobstructed from plain view. For firearms manufactured on or after January 30, 2002, the serial number must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch and in a print size no smaller than 1/16 inch.
<span style="font-weight: bold">7.4.2 Additional information</span>. Certain additional information must also be conspicuously placed on the frame, receiver, or barrel of the firearm by engraving, casting, stamping (impressing), that is, they must be placed in such a manner that they are wholly unobstructed from plain view. For firearms manufactured on or after January 30, 2002, this information must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch.
The additional information includes:
(1) The model, if such designation has been made;
(2) The caliber or gauge;
(3) The manufacturer’s name (or recognized abbreviation); and
(4) The city and State (or recognized abbreviation) where the manufacturer maintains its place
of business.122</div></div>
Serial number is the only thing that has to be on the frame. Manufactures name, city, state, and caliber can be on the upper, barrel, ect.
Re: Sbr engraving
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dvdt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">highly recommend these guys:
http://www.identmarking.com/
They do outstanding work. They are somewhat local for me. I went by their shop and believe me, they aren't doing one or two receivers here and there. They do a ton of them. </div></div>
+1 This.
I just got mine back last week.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dvdt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">highly recommend these guys:
http://www.identmarking.com/
They do outstanding work. They are somewhat local for me. I went by their shop and believe me, they aren't doing one or two receivers here and there. They do a ton of them. </div></div>
+1 This.
I just got mine back last week.
Re: Sbr engraving
No engraving needed when you buy a SBR from the factory
No engraving needed when you buy a SBR from the factory
Re: Sbr engraving
We charge $75 + return shipping for engraving for SBR's.. Uzi's,H&K's metal or plastic, Ar15's all the time.. We can add Auto, to the left side of your AR receiver and Semi.Safe,Auto to the right side if you like...
NFA TRUST $200
SBR UZI
SBR
Adding a caliber
manufacture
manufacture
We charge $75 + return shipping for engraving for SBR's.. Uzi's,H&K's metal or plastic, Ar15's all the time.. We can add Auto, to the left side of your AR receiver and Semi.Safe,Auto to the right side if you like...
NFA TRUST $200
SBR UZI
SBR
Adding a caliber
manufacture
manufacture
Re: Sbr engraving
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> You can't register an "SBR Lower" or an "SBR Upper" as one without the other does not require registration.</div></div>
Actually you can, I have 2 of them on Form 4's. Box h. "short barrel rifle receiver". However, it was kicked back initially and i had to add caliber, barrel length and OAL, of what its configuration was going to be. The trick is that the original mfg paid exise tax on the receiver, making it a "rifle".
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> You can't register an "SBR Lower" or an "SBR Upper" as one without the other does not require registration.</div></div>
Actually you can, I have 2 of them on Form 4's. Box h. "short barrel rifle receiver". However, it was kicked back initially and i had to add caliber, barrel length and OAL, of what its configuration was going to be. The trick is that the original mfg paid exise tax on the receiver, making it a "rifle".
Re: Sbr engraving
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Glocker17</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> You can't register an "SBR Lower" or an "SBR Upper" as one without the other does not require registration.</div></div>
Actually you can, I have 2 of them on Form 4's. Box h. "short barrel rifle receiver". However, it was kicked back initially and i had to add caliber, barrel length and OAL, of what its configuration was going to be. The trick is that the original mfg paid exise tax on the receiver, making it a "rifle".
</div></div>
The real trick is that it got through the cracks in the system. Just saying that you have a receiver transferred to you via a form four means that you and the transferor have broken the regs and that ATF has made a mistake. The problem with the system is that while the ATF makes the regs they don't check on all these NFA firearms they are doing the paperwork on. They have no idea what you really have and depend on the registrant and any subsequent transferee to keep things as they are supposed to be. It is true that receivers have been transferred and registered by individuals, dealers and manufacturers but it doesn't mean its legal or correct. Read the FAQ at the ATF NFA website. Its linked above and clarifies a lot of these myths and mistakes.
Frank
As a form 1 "Maker" you are not permitted to possess the barrel and the receiver until the forms are approved. Because of that you must have the receiver in your hands because the serial number must be on the receiver and you need a serial number for your form.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Glocker17</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> You can't register an "SBR Lower" or an "SBR Upper" as one without the other does not require registration.</div></div>
Actually you can, I have 2 of them on Form 4's. Box h. "short barrel rifle receiver". However, it was kicked back initially and i had to add caliber, barrel length and OAL, of what its configuration was going to be. The trick is that the original mfg paid exise tax on the receiver, making it a "rifle".
</div></div>
The real trick is that it got through the cracks in the system. Just saying that you have a receiver transferred to you via a form four means that you and the transferor have broken the regs and that ATF has made a mistake. The problem with the system is that while the ATF makes the regs they don't check on all these NFA firearms they are doing the paperwork on. They have no idea what you really have and depend on the registrant and any subsequent transferee to keep things as they are supposed to be. It is true that receivers have been transferred and registered by individuals, dealers and manufacturers but it doesn't mean its legal or correct. Read the FAQ at the ATF NFA website. Its linked above and clarifies a lot of these myths and mistakes.
Frank
As a form 1 "Maker" you are not permitted to possess the barrel and the receiver until the forms are approved. Because of that you must have the receiver in your hands because the serial number must be on the receiver and you need a serial number for your form.
Re: Sbr engraving
BiffJ is correct
ATF NFA Branch is different from Tech branch
They routinely contradict each other or change interpretations
I for years had "multi" engraved on lowers and on Form 2's with no issues
Then one day "nope".
It makes no sense ... TIG this us the government
BiffJ is correct
ATF NFA Branch is different from Tech branch
They routinely contradict each other or change interpretations
I for years had "multi" engraved on lowers and on Form 2's with no issues
Then one day "nope".
It makes no sense ... TIG this us the government
Re: Sbr engraving
Well,
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just saying that you have a receiver transferred to you via a form four means that you and the transferor have broken the regs and that ATF has made a mistake</div></div>
ATF approved the Form 2, the Form 3, and the Form 4, and they still are. So I have broken no regs at all, the item was a SBR Rifle Lower on each of these docs. Item h. has the same info as included in the two previously approved documents and in reality that can't be changed. Don't know what else to tell you. I would imagine that dozens have been sold through my local SOT in this manner.
Well,
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just saying that you have a receiver transferred to you via a form four means that you and the transferor have broken the regs and that ATF has made a mistake</div></div>
ATF approved the Form 2, the Form 3, and the Form 4, and they still are. So I have broken no regs at all, the item was a SBR Rifle Lower on each of these docs. Item h. has the same info as included in the two previously approved documents and in reality that can't be changed. Don't know what else to tell you. I would imagine that dozens have been sold through my local SOT in this manner.
Re: Sbr engraving
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Glocker17</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well,
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just saying that you have a receiver transferred to you via a form four means that you and the transferor have broken the regs and that ATF has made a mistake</div></div>
ATF approved the Form 2, the Form 3, and the Form 4, and they still are. So I have broken no regs at all, the item was a SBR Rifle Lower on each of these docs. Item h. has the same info as included in the two previously approved documents and in reality that can't be changed. Don't know what else to tell you. I would imagine that dozens have been sold through my local SOT in this manner. </div></div>
In that case you should consider yourself lucky and not advertise whats going on. I know that at least one SOT was reminded that if he filled out his form 2's saying he had a barrel and transferred only receivers than he had committed perjury. No barrel, no SBR, you must have both.
As for them approving them it means nothing. I've got pre may dealer sample forms that aren't stamped " for use as a sales sample only" yet they are not transferable guns. Just because the examiner made a mistake doesn't mean I'm off the hook. Now that the examiners are doing forms by states its quite possible the current examiner working your state is not aware. Or more likely the reason you posted in your first post is the thing...you put a barrel length, as required and because of that they ignore the note saying SBR receiver.
Its anyones guess and you can do as you like. I'm not your mom and you don't have to listen to me anyway.....read the FAQ and you'll find the truth so you don't have to believe me or anyone else on the board. Might keep your SOT friend out of trouble too.
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/national-firearms-act-short-barreled-rifles-shotguns.html
Frank
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Glocker17</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well,
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just saying that you have a receiver transferred to you via a form four means that you and the transferor have broken the regs and that ATF has made a mistake</div></div>
ATF approved the Form 2, the Form 3, and the Form 4, and they still are. So I have broken no regs at all, the item was a SBR Rifle Lower on each of these docs. Item h. has the same info as included in the two previously approved documents and in reality that can't be changed. Don't know what else to tell you. I would imagine that dozens have been sold through my local SOT in this manner. </div></div>
In that case you should consider yourself lucky and not advertise whats going on. I know that at least one SOT was reminded that if he filled out his form 2's saying he had a barrel and transferred only receivers than he had committed perjury. No barrel, no SBR, you must have both.
As for them approving them it means nothing. I've got pre may dealer sample forms that aren't stamped " for use as a sales sample only" yet they are not transferable guns. Just because the examiner made a mistake doesn't mean I'm off the hook. Now that the examiners are doing forms by states its quite possible the current examiner working your state is not aware. Or more likely the reason you posted in your first post is the thing...you put a barrel length, as required and because of that they ignore the note saying SBR receiver.
Its anyones guess and you can do as you like. I'm not your mom and you don't have to listen to me anyway.....read the FAQ and you'll find the truth so you don't have to believe me or anyone else on the board. Might keep your SOT friend out of trouble too.
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/national-firearms-act-short-barreled-rifles-shotguns.html
Frank
Re: Sbr engraving
I guess we interpret things differently, but your point is well taken. I have read the NFA fact page as well and it doesn't really address this exact situation either.
I guess we interpret things differently, but your point is well taken. I have read the NFA fact page as well and it doesn't really address this exact situation either.
