I am working up a load for my 338LM and am having a personal delima. I have been using my Lyman 1500XP scale for the load development. I calibrate the scale to 20g before every use and reconfirm zero every 5 rounds. Tonight, I decided to confirm the powder weight on my 505 halfway through my 50 round session. According to the 505 I am .3 light on my Lyman loads. Is this another example of technology screwing me over, as I suspect, or do you think the 505 could be wrong? From some of the more experianced guys, and I have been reloading for years, which direction would you run with? Lyman 1500XP or 505? Is there an advantage to a mechanical scale and is there a better one out there? Thanks for your advice, bcs
- Thread starter rbadgett2
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Re: Scale question
I just switched back to a beam scale after several years with a lyman 1200. It was great for the first few years but it got more, & more tempermental until I was having to re zero after every charge, & re calibrated every 3rd or so. I looked up Scott Parker, & got one of his trued beam scales. I'll never use an electronic scale again for charge weight.
Call him. 661-364-1199
Great guy to deal with.
I just switched back to a beam scale after several years with a lyman 1200. It was great for the first few years but it got more, & more tempermental until I was having to re zero after every charge, & re calibrated every 3rd or so. I looked up Scott Parker, & got one of his trued beam scales. I'll never use an electronic scale again for charge weight.
Call him. 661-364-1199
Great guy to deal with.
Re: Scale question
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bigwheels</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just switched back to a beam scale after several years with a lyman 1200. It was great for the first few years but it got more, & more tempermental until I was having to re zero after every charge, & re calibrated every 3rd or so. I looked up Scott Parker, & got one of his trued beam scales. I'll never use an electronic scale again for charge weight.
Call him. 661-364-1199
Great guy to deal with. </div></div>
That's awesome! I have been looking for a source for a trued beam scale. Thanks bunches!!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bigwheels</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just switched back to a beam scale after several years with a lyman 1200. It was great for the first few years but it got more, & more tempermental until I was having to re zero after every charge, & re calibrated every 3rd or so. I looked up Scott Parker, & got one of his trued beam scales. I'll never use an electronic scale again for charge weight.
Call him. 661-364-1199
Great guy to deal with. </div></div>
That's awesome! I have been looking for a source for a trued beam scale. Thanks bunches!!
Re: Scale question
Thanks for the info Bigwheels. I think I'm going to move away from electronic scales also. Just another example of too much technology not necessarly being a good thing.
bcs
Thanks for the info Bigwheels. I think I'm going to move away from electronic scales also. Just another example of too much technology not necessarly being a good thing.
bcs
Re: Scale question
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: G_Wolf_29</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bigwheels</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just switched back to a beam scale after several years with a lyman 1200. It was great for the first few years but it got more, & more tempermental until I was having to re zero after every charge, & re calibrated every 3rd or so. I looked up Scott Parker, & got one of his trued beam scales. I'll never use an electronic scale again for charge weight.
Call him. 661-364-1199
Great guy to deal with. </div></div>
That's awesome! I have been looking for a source for a trued beam scale. Thanks bunches!! </div></div>
You will be in a line. I tlked with him two weeks ago and got on the list. He said mine would be ready in about two weeks, so hopefully in another week or so.
Great things are worth waiting for. And the people that can true these scales are few and far between!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: G_Wolf_29</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bigwheels</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just switched back to a beam scale after several years with a lyman 1200. It was great for the first few years but it got more, & more tempermental until I was having to re zero after every charge, & re calibrated every 3rd or so. I looked up Scott Parker, & got one of his trued beam scales. I'll never use an electronic scale again for charge weight.
Call him. 661-364-1199
Great guy to deal with. </div></div>
That's awesome! I have been looking for a source for a trued beam scale. Thanks bunches!! </div></div>
You will be in a line. I tlked with him two weeks ago and got on the list. He said mine would be ready in about two weeks, so hopefully in another week or so.
Great things are worth waiting for. And the people that can true these scales are few and far between!
Re: Scale question
I will call Scott on Monday and post current lead-time.
I will call Scott on Monday and post current lead-time.
Re: Scale question
"Is there an advantage to a mechanical scale and is there a better one out there? "
I have three beam scales, my first is now 47 years old, another is 45 and tghe 'new' one is about 10. All are equally sensitive and accuracy has not changed; try to equal that with any three digitals of your choice or price.
As a callow youth I repaired and calibrated high quality electronic measurement instruments in the space program; there are no digital powder scales on my bench. And there will not be unless I find one in a ditch. Even then it would be restricted to weighing bullets and cases, not powder.
Your RCBS scale was made by Ohaus, they are probably the oldest and most well recognised maker of lab beam scales in the country and they produce scales under other reloading lables as well, Dillon is one. But, I have used several beams by different makers and don't see any reason to say that one is any 'better' than another.
"Is there an advantage to a mechanical scale and is there a better one out there? "
I have three beam scales, my first is now 47 years old, another is 45 and tghe 'new' one is about 10. All are equally sensitive and accuracy has not changed; try to equal that with any three digitals of your choice or price.
As a callow youth I repaired and calibrated high quality electronic measurement instruments in the space program; there are no digital powder scales on my bench. And there will not be unless I find one in a ditch. Even then it would be restricted to weighing bullets and cases, not powder.
Your RCBS scale was made by Ohaus, they are probably the oldest and most well recognised maker of lab beam scales in the country and they produce scales under other reloading lables as well, Dillon is one. But, I have used several beams by different makers and don't see any reason to say that one is any 'better' than another.
M
milo 2.0
Guest
Re: Scale question
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fuzzball</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
As a callow youth I repaired and calibrated high quality electronic measurement instruments in the space program; there are no digital powder scales on my bench. And there will not be unless I find one in a ditch. Even then it would be restricted to weighing bullets and cases, not powder. </div></div>
Fuck Fuzz,
Somehow I knew, just from your posts, I knew NASA had you on speed dial.
By contrast, the local sanitation department has me on speed dial. If by chance, on my route, if I find a digital along the roadside, or in a dumpster, I will ship it to you for free. I'd hate to see you mess up a balance beam weighing bullets.
If you ever care to compare your balanced loads to my digital loads, shoot me a pm.
God, I love this site
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fuzzball</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
As a callow youth I repaired and calibrated high quality electronic measurement instruments in the space program; there are no digital powder scales on my bench. And there will not be unless I find one in a ditch. Even then it would be restricted to weighing bullets and cases, not powder. </div></div>
Fuck Fuzz,
Somehow I knew, just from your posts, I knew NASA had you on speed dial.
By contrast, the local sanitation department has me on speed dial. If by chance, on my route, if I find a digital along the roadside, or in a dumpster, I will ship it to you for free. I'd hate to see you mess up a balance beam weighing bullets.
If you ever care to compare your balanced loads to my digital loads, shoot me a pm.
God, I love this site
Re: Scale question
You may have a discrepancy between your 2 scales but it may be a linear error that is always the same and you may be able to just have a correction factor of say .03 grains or whatever.
My tuned Scotty Parker scales don't match my RCBS Chargemaster readings but they are always exactly 3/10 apart so I just mentally correct for the difference since it is always constant.
I don't know which one is off but it doesn't matter since as long as the charge is always the same what number shows on the scale is not important as long as it repeats.
You may have a discrepancy between your 2 scales but it may be a linear error that is always the same and you may be able to just have a correction factor of say .03 grains or whatever.
My tuned Scotty Parker scales don't match my RCBS Chargemaster readings but they are always exactly 3/10 apart so I just mentally correct for the difference since it is always constant.
I don't know which one is off but it doesn't matter since as long as the charge is always the same what number shows on the scale is not important as long as it repeats.
Re: Scale question
<span style="font-style: italic">"If you ever care to compare your balanced loads to my digital loads, shoot me a pm."</span>
Milo my friend, you (slightly) misunderstand my acessment of digital vs. beam; I happily conceed that so long as they both work correctly they are fully equal so no PM is needed. The issue is, "Which will fail first?" And even the most rabid defenders of electonics will admit they all fail eventually. Given that both types are equally accurate, I can't fathom why so many reloaders are dedicated to defending the fragile and quirky things.
My first beam was new in '65; it's still going and as dead-on accurate and sensitive as it was the first day. (Let us all know how your digital is doing in another 47 years!) And if I get bullet and case weights wrong it isn't going to kill me but powder ... is a white horse of a totally different color!
<span style="font-style: italic">"If you ever care to compare your balanced loads to my digital loads, shoot me a pm."</span>
Milo my friend, you (slightly) misunderstand my acessment of digital vs. beam; I happily conceed that so long as they both work correctly they are fully equal so no PM is needed. The issue is, "Which will fail first?" And even the most rabid defenders of electonics will admit they all fail eventually. Given that both types are equally accurate, I can't fathom why so many reloaders are dedicated to defending the fragile and quirky things.
My first beam was new in '65; it's still going and as dead-on accurate and sensitive as it was the first day. (Let us all know how your digital is doing in another 47 years!) And if I get bullet and case weights wrong it isn't going to kill me but powder ... is a white horse of a totally different color!
Re: Scale question
<span style="font-style: italic">"I don't know which one is off but it doesn't matter since as long as the charge is always the same what number shows on the scale is not important as long as it repeats."</span>
In2, you have a firm grip on the meaningless reality of absolute accuracy on any reloaders scale. Absolute repeatability is critical to us, absolute accuracy is not.
<span style="font-style: italic">"I don't know which one is off but it doesn't matter since as long as the charge is always the same what number shows on the scale is not important as long as it repeats."</span>
In2, you have a firm grip on the meaningless reality of absolute accuracy on any reloaders scale. Absolute repeatability is critical to us, absolute accuracy is not.
Re: Scale question
This one has worked well for me the past six years(Denver Instrument MXX123). I've also got an old Redding balance scale that I've had for 40+ years and it has always worked fine. I use them both.
This one has worked well for me the past six years(Denver Instrument MXX123). I've also got an old Redding balance scale that I've had for 40+ years and it has always worked fine. I use them both.
Re: Scale question
I also use the scale in the pic. and love it. It's VERY accurate, / rep., and fast. The only draw back is the price, $325! If you want to spend the money, they are worth it and are nothing like other elc. scales. (They are Lab grade.)Sinclair sells them.
I also use the scale in the pic. and love it. It's VERY accurate, / rep., and fast. The only draw back is the price, $325! If you want to spend the money, they are worth it and are nothing like other elc. scales. (They are Lab grade.)Sinclair sells them.
Re: Scale question
There is another more important aspect that I beleive needs to be covered. "Check Weights"!!!
Every time I start a session either with the Digital or Beam I confirm what the scale is telling me with Check weights I know are the weight I am looking for. I have gone as far to make my own custom check weights with Lead cast bullet by just grinding them down to the weights I want.
A great scale without a way to confirm accuracy is useless.
Buy a set of grain check weights from either Lyman or RCBS.
I have two sets of the RCBS and can combine to get my charge weight I am looking to load and confirm my scale zero.
As far as beam scale go, Scott Parker is the go to person. You will get a grain sensitive scale and will not be disappointed.
As far as digitals Denver Instrument MXX-123 is on my bench along with a Lyman M5 tuned by Scott.
See the Check weights below in the picture on the corner of the granite top. They never leave my scale area.
Terry
There is another more important aspect that I beleive needs to be covered. "Check Weights"!!!
Every time I start a session either with the Digital or Beam I confirm what the scale is telling me with Check weights I know are the weight I am looking for. I have gone as far to make my own custom check weights with Lead cast bullet by just grinding them down to the weights I want.
A great scale without a way to confirm accuracy is useless.
Buy a set of grain check weights from either Lyman or RCBS.
I have two sets of the RCBS and can combine to get my charge weight I am looking to load and confirm my scale zero.
As far as beam scale go, Scott Parker is the go to person. You will get a grain sensitive scale and will not be disappointed.
As far as digitals Denver Instrument MXX-123 is on my bench along with a Lyman M5 tuned by Scott.
See the Check weights below in the picture on the corner of the granite top. They never leave my scale area.
Terry
Re: Scale question
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PGS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
This one has worked well for me the past six years(Denver Instrument MXX123). I've also got an old Redding balance scale that I've had for 40+ years and it has always worked fine. I use them both. </div></div>
PGS, I notice that you are not using the Wind Ring on your MXX-123. Probaly because it a bitch to use the scale with the pan you are using.
I use a 1/4 cup measuring pan that I bought at the dollar store. It gets the handle up over the wind screen and makes it easier to use the scale with it in place. Also, when dumping 210+ grains on 5010 for the BMG it allows more space and you not dumping kernels of powder over the edge of the pan.
Take a look at my photo and you can see what I mean, give it a try, I bet you'll like it.
Terry
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PGS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
This one has worked well for me the past six years(Denver Instrument MXX123). I've also got an old Redding balance scale that I've had for 40+ years and it has always worked fine. I use them both. </div></div>
PGS, I notice that you are not using the Wind Ring on your MXX-123. Probaly because it a bitch to use the scale with the pan you are using.
I use a 1/4 cup measuring pan that I bought at the dollar store. It gets the handle up over the wind screen and makes it easier to use the scale with it in place. Also, when dumping 210+ grains on 5010 for the BMG it allows more space and you not dumping kernels of powder over the edge of the pan.
Take a look at my photo and you can see what I mean, give it a try, I bet you'll like it.
Terry
Re: Scale question
AAHH.....good tip! Thanks!
AAHH.....good tip! Thanks!
Re: Scale question
Thanks for the heads up. I got an email back and there's a new incoming shipment of scales to be trued by Scott and should be available for shipping soon.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eclipse57</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: G_Wolf_29</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bigwheels</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just switched back to a beam scale after several years with a lyman 1200. It was great for the first few years but it got more, & more tempermental until I was having to re zero after every charge, & re calibrated every 3rd or so. I looked up Scott Parker, & got one of his trued beam scales. I'll never use an electronic scale again for charge weight.
Call him.
Great guy to deal with. </div></div>
That's awesome! I have been looking for a source for a trued beam scale. Thanks bunches!! </div></div>
You will be in a line. I tlked with him two weeks ago and got on the list. He said mine would be ready in about two weeks, so hopefully in another week or so.
Great things are worth waiting for. And the people that can true these scales are few and far between! </div></div>
Thanks for the heads up. I got an email back and there's a new incoming shipment of scales to be trued by Scott and should be available for shipping soon.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eclipse57</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: G_Wolf_29</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bigwheels</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just switched back to a beam scale after several years with a lyman 1200. It was great for the first few years but it got more, & more tempermental until I was having to re zero after every charge, & re calibrated every 3rd or so. I looked up Scott Parker, & got one of his trued beam scales. I'll never use an electronic scale again for charge weight.
Call him.
Great guy to deal with. </div></div>
That's awesome! I have been looking for a source for a trued beam scale. Thanks bunches!! </div></div>
You will be in a line. I tlked with him two weeks ago and got on the list. He said mine would be ready in about two weeks, so hopefully in another week or so.
Great things are worth waiting for. And the people that can true these scales are few and far between! </div></div>
Re: Scale question
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: in2deep</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You may have a discrepancy between your 2 scales but it may be a linear error that is always the same and you may be able to just have a correction factor of say .03 grains or whatever.
My tuned Scotty Parker scales don't match my RCBS Chargemaster readings but they are always exactly 3/10 apart so I just mentally correct for the difference since it is always constant.
I don't know which one is off but it doesn't matter since as long as the charge is always the same what number shows on the scale is not important as long as it repeats.</div></div>
Yep, this. And if you are working using a chrono and working up your loads, it doesn't really matter the number your scale gives you as long as it gives you reliable numbers on a linear scale of numbers --the difference between two scales is non-sequtr. Besides, when I calibrate each time and then use those check weights on the balance beams too, I always get same weights... then the following loads are always spot on, so I kind of don't get it I guess? I use the RCBS gear too.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: in2deep</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You may have a discrepancy between your 2 scales but it may be a linear error that is always the same and you may be able to just have a correction factor of say .03 grains or whatever.
My tuned Scotty Parker scales don't match my RCBS Chargemaster readings but they are always exactly 3/10 apart so I just mentally correct for the difference since it is always constant.
I don't know which one is off but it doesn't matter since as long as the charge is always the same what number shows on the scale is not important as long as it repeats.</div></div>
Yep, this. And if you are working using a chrono and working up your loads, it doesn't really matter the number your scale gives you as long as it gives you reliable numbers on a linear scale of numbers --the difference between two scales is non-sequtr. Besides, when I calibrate each time and then use those check weights on the balance beams too, I always get same weights... then the following loads are always spot on, so I kind of don't get it I guess? I use the RCBS gear too.
Re: Scale question
I ordered my Scott Parker tuned scale last week.
As far as electric scales go there are two main types: Magnetic force restoration vs strain gauge. The strain gauge type like your Lyman suffer from stability (drift) and lag problems. The Magnetic Force Restoration designs definitely perform MUCH better but most are 5-10X the cost of a strain gauge design.
I think the best solution is to go with either a tuned mechanical scale (my current solution) or something like the Sartorius GD503.
I ordered my Scott Parker tuned scale last week.
As far as electric scales go there are two main types: Magnetic force restoration vs strain gauge. The strain gauge type like your Lyman suffer from stability (drift) and lag problems. The Magnetic Force Restoration designs definitely perform MUCH better but most are 5-10X the cost of a strain gauge design.
I think the best solution is to go with either a tuned mechanical scale (my current solution) or something like the Sartorius GD503.
M
milo 2.0
Guest
Re: Scale question
I must concede to Fuzzball, the longevity of the balance beam far outweighs the digital. I went through 5 of the first RCBS systems made by PACT, junk.
Fuzz, I have a RCBS 10-10 also, would never get rid of it. I did sell a 304 once, still face palm myself over it.
Susaponte makes a good point on the scale check weight check system, a must for digitals, you have to know where your at.
With time constraints, my chargemaster serves me fine.
I must concede to Fuzzball, the longevity of the balance beam far outweighs the digital. I went through 5 of the first RCBS systems made by PACT, junk.
Fuzz, I have a RCBS 10-10 also, would never get rid of it. I did sell a 304 once, still face palm myself over it.
Susaponte makes a good point on the scale check weight check system, a must for digitals, you have to know where your at.
With time constraints, my chargemaster serves me fine.
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