I have recently built a 6.5 creedmoor for mostly target and prs with possibility of hunting. I realize that the 3x will be more useful hunting then 5x will be. The main question is will I be giving up a noticeable amount on the higher end between the 20x and 25x out to about 1000 yards.
Rifle Scopes Schmidt & Bender 5-25 or the 3-20
- Thread starter Anthony-ss
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I cant comment on the 3-20, but the 5-25s have a tunneling effect from 5x-7x. You arent actually zooming out and getting a wider FOV.
As far as shooting at 1000 between 20-25x
-For PRS, you aren't losing out on much, if anything, unless you are shooting tiny targets at that distance.
-For Hunting, you may want that extra magnification (depending on game and vital size)
I would personally go with the 5-25 so that you have the extra zoom, because you probably wont benefit as much from being able to go down from 5x to 3x as you will being able to go 20x to 25x. (again depending on the tunneling effect on the 3-20)
As far as shooting at 1000 between 20-25x
-For PRS, you aren't losing out on much, if anything, unless you are shooting tiny targets at that distance.
-For Hunting, you may want that extra magnification (depending on game and vital size)
I would personally go with the 5-25 so that you have the extra zoom, because you probably wont benefit as much from being able to go down from 5x to 3x as you will being able to go 20x to 25x. (again depending on the tunneling effect on the 3-20)
Thank you I was not looking so much at the bottom end for the Magnification but for the field of view the 3-20 gave. As hunting with that caliber I wouldn’t push it past 400 yards. the range I have goes to 1000 to ring steel. Would there at 1000 yards on a standard size target be a vast improvement to have the 25x over the 20x.
I think you’ll hear this a lot, I’ve read it a lot and agree. I don’t shoot on max magnification at any distance really. 12-15x on my 5-25 is great from 100-1000 and beyond. If mirage isn’t bad and I have time to dial up sometimes the 18-20 range is nice but rarely get beyond that. If I lay behind the rifle and dial up mag until it looks optimized it’s usually 15-18 on far targets. If your not concerned about size and weight of 5-25 then there’s not much downside to it. If you think smaller would be better than go smaller you likely won’t hit a target on 25x you can’t hit with 20x. I can’t say I’ve ever left a stage or range session saying if I had 5x more I could have hit that target.
I have both. I have the 3-20 on my GAP-10 gasser, and the 5-25 on my A.I.
I absolutely love my 3-20. I have considered moving it to my bolt gun. I just can’t justify changing them. I absolutely think the 3-20 is a better option on a hunting rig. You’re correct on using 3X on the bottom. On a walking hunt, you could jump something in heavy cover where a 3X will be better than a 5X. Also, that 5X will be tunneled where the 3X will not be. There’s not an animal I can think of that I would shoot with that type of scope/rifle combo where the 20X wouldn’t be plenty sufficient. If you miss at 20X, you’re just as likely to miss on 25X.
By your own statement, you won’t shoot past 400. If you even said 600, the 20 is PLENTY. Remember, MANY, many elk have been killed with 3-9 and 4-12’s. I’d much prefer the 3X on the bottom.
From a guy that has both: 3-20 and never look back.
I absolutely love my 3-20. I have considered moving it to my bolt gun. I just can’t justify changing them. I absolutely think the 3-20 is a better option on a hunting rig. You’re correct on using 3X on the bottom. On a walking hunt, you could jump something in heavy cover where a 3X will be better than a 5X. Also, that 5X will be tunneled where the 3X will not be. There’s not an animal I can think of that I would shoot with that type of scope/rifle combo where the 20X wouldn’t be plenty sufficient. If you miss at 20X, you’re just as likely to miss on 25X.
By your own statement, you won’t shoot past 400. If you even said 600, the 20 is PLENTY. Remember, MANY, many elk have been killed with 3-9 and 4-12’s. I’d much prefer the 3X on the bottom.
From a guy that has both: 3-20 and never look back.
Than
thank you guys it seems that the last bit on the high end won’t be noticed all that much while getting twice the fov on the low end maybe a bigger help. Other then turrets and size is there any reason to get the standard 3-20 or the ultra short. Unfamiliar with either if one or the other has had any issues
Thats a huge honker to put on a rifle. OP I have a 5-20US S&B on a 6.5 saum for hunting, a 3-20US S&B on a 300wsm for hunting and banging steel at distance and a couple 5-25's and a3-27 on bigger magnum caliber guns. My favorite are the ultra short 5-20 and 3-20. The 5-20 isn't pictured but the 3-20 is on the bottom middle three are 5-25 and the top is 3-27.
Nice looking rifles. Glad you like the ultra shorts. Is the mtc annoying or just something to get used to.
We'd be happy to discuss this with you. We have already started our Schmidt & Bender Black Friday Though Out November Sale so now is a great time for a S&B.
I happen to agree with:
I happen to agree with:
Some people don't like the mtc, but it doesn't bother me. I think its one of those things you get used to, Lowlight has mentioned in the past that he dials a past the solution with the mtc, then goes back to what he wanted. So like instead of os slowing down and dialing .2 past 3 mils for 600yds he'll scream past three then dial back to get that .2. Make sense?
The price difference between these two models is usually significant, if that matters.
The extra 5x may have a place for spotting impacts when there is no dust to kick up and seeing chewed up targets against some backgrounds. I do not have the SB 3-20 but have a much easier time with those things using a 5-25 PM II or 4.5-27 razor than a 21x DMR or 18x leupolds. Could also be the better clarity and color rendering so perhaps not a fair comparison.
I like the MTC, both in operation and for a switch barrel system. The MTC turrets have no small parts to tinker with other than a hex wrench to loosen the captive set screws... re-zeroing them to a new barrel after a caliber change is about as easy and fast as it gets and you aren't going to risk dropping any scope parts in the weeds.
The extra 5x may have a place for spotting impacts when there is no dust to kick up and seeing chewed up targets against some backgrounds. I do not have the SB 3-20 but have a much easier time with those things using a 5-25 PM II or 4.5-27 razor than a 21x DMR or 18x leupolds. Could also be the better clarity and color rendering so perhaps not a fair comparison.
I like the MTC, both in operation and for a switch barrel system. The MTC turrets have no small parts to tinker with other than a hex wrench to loosen the captive set screws... re-zeroing them to a new barrel after a caliber change is about as easy and fast as it gets and you aren't going to risk dropping any scope parts in the weeds.
I made a big mistake when I got into this precision rifle hobby 20yrs ago. I thought I needed a lot of mag and picked up an 8-32x scope. My learning curve was steep. It seemed I was always fighting with having too much mag.
Since then I look for minimum mag/max field of view. I had a 3-15x premier heritage and had no trouble with 15x at 950yds. The bottom end mag was perfect for KY deer hunting.
I’ve shot a S&B 5-25 and was impressed with everything but the tunneling at the bottom.
Life caused me to have to shelve this hobby for a few years. I recently stepped back in with a vengeance and picked up an AI and a Razor. I really wanted a 3-20 or 3-27 S&B for it but couldn’t swing it at the time. Both of the 3x S&B’s have the best FOV numbers of tactical scopes that I could find. I went with a 3-18 razor to tide me over. It’s FOV is close to the S&B’s.
I’m waiting for the 3-20’s with MSR2 reticle to be in stock. That would be my pick.
If you have the budget and don’t mind the size I would check out the 3-27 with 34mil of elevation. If you don’t mind the size it should do everything. Hunting, PRS, longe range plinking, and ELR.
Since then I look for minimum mag/max field of view. I had a 3-15x premier heritage and had no trouble with 15x at 950yds. The bottom end mag was perfect for KY deer hunting.
I’ve shot a S&B 5-25 and was impressed with everything but the tunneling at the bottom.
Life caused me to have to shelve this hobby for a few years. I recently stepped back in with a vengeance and picked up an AI and a Razor. I really wanted a 3-20 or 3-27 S&B for it but couldn’t swing it at the time. Both of the 3x S&B’s have the best FOV numbers of tactical scopes that I could find. I went with a 3-18 razor to tide me over. It’s FOV is close to the S&B’s.
I’m waiting for the 3-20’s with MSR2 reticle to be in stock. That would be my pick.
If you have the budget and don’t mind the size I would check out the 3-27 with 34mil of elevation. If you don’t mind the size it should do everything. Hunting, PRS, longe range plinking, and ELR.
This is pretty much required on the MTC. Very hard to stop at .1 or .2 past the whole mils. It’s not a big deal once you get used to it.
I have owned a 5-25X56, it was huge and only really practical for me on a range rifle.
I now own a 4-16X50 that’I had on a hunting rifle. As a result of how well I got on with it I bought a 3-20X50 to run on a Sako TRG22. I shot a comp a few weeks ago with targets out to 1000m and didn’t feel I needed more mag.
Recently I picked up a 5-20X50 US for a Fix rifle. The size in comparison to the 3-20X50 is night and day. So compact and does everything with no negatives other than the mounting restrictions.
As such I would now pick up a 3-20X50 for the best of everything. Especially with the new updated MSR reticle.
I now own a 4-16X50 that’I had on a hunting rifle. As a result of how well I got on with it I bought a 3-20X50 to run on a Sako TRG22. I shot a comp a few weeks ago with targets out to 1000m and didn’t feel I needed more mag.
Recently I picked up a 5-20X50 US for a Fix rifle. The size in comparison to the 3-20X50 is night and day. So compact and does everything with no negatives other than the mounting restrictions.
As such I would now pick up a 3-20X50 for the best of everything. Especially with the new updated MSR reticle.
I have a kahles 1-6 and could use that hunting. My feeling was for a higher end scope to get something that would fit most of what i will be doing with it. the 3-37 looks nice as well, it is a little more then i wanted to spend.
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I do like the looks of the kahles they only thing that has turned me off is that all the reviews i have seen have said is not great at any one think good good all around. that is what was pushing me towards the schmidt
Depends if you notice CA much or not.
I don’t personally notice CA much in any optic. Those are the only negative reviews I’ve seen from the Kahles.
I’ve run:
Vortex AMG
Vortex Razor Gen ii
Atacr 4-16
Atacr 7-35
Schmidt 5-25
Minox Zp5
Kahles k525i
That’s just this year.
I’m sticking with the k525i. It’s the best overall optic for me (taking into account all things).
This is totally subjective though. They are all really good.
When people say (myself included), it’s not good at any single thing, they mean it’s not the best. It’s still really good at all things.
For what it’s worth, I didn’t find the Schmidt to be the absolute best at any particular thing either.
For what it’s worth, I didn’t find the Schmidt to be the absolute best at any particular thing either.
I may have to play with one to see I do notice ca so if they were able to fix the with the 5-25 it maybe an option. I would like the optic clarity to be better the the 1-6 I have.
My goal was to get one scope that I could use fro hunting as well as out to 1000 on steel. If I had to change to the 1-6 for a hunt then so be it. That then would open up the choices some.
For the price that you can find a S&B pm II these days. I would personally go that route. I picked up 2 of them, with the h2cmr reticle. Im not a Fan of the DT turrets, but i just learn to live with um. +1 to what has already been said in this thread as well.
For PRS matches it has served me well, and i will continue to use it.
For PRS matches it has served me well, and i will continue to use it.
This. Owned both, the FOV on the 3-20 also is a plus.
I don't like the new Kahles only because the FOV is crap.
GL!
DT
I personally like the Schmidt UltraShort 5-20. I don't often use the 5x even on the 5-20, so going with the 3-20 was nothing I was very interested in. I shoot the 5-20 and 5-25 frequently, and just was hunting with my son with the 5-20. It works great, and is one of the shortest out of the 3-20, 5-20 and 5-25. I didn't feel like I was handicapped with the 20 top end nor the 5 low end, and have used the 5-20 frequently in competition and out to 1900 yards without any issue.
Have had both and for your application I'd pick the 3-20. It's a more versatile scope than the 5-25 and probably the best executed allrounder I've used.
I have had a chance to play with new "updated version" of SB 3-20x50 (not US version) which has now billet mag ring instead of rubber one. I have noticed that turrets lost some crisp feel on clicks. Definitely different feel beside "old" rubberized version we still have on work rifles. I do not understand why SB do not offer this scope with DT turret only (without MTC/LT), as many users do not like DT/MTC/LT turrets on this scope. Personally, I decided myself not to buy it with these turrets. It is pity, because otherwise it is a great scope.
