Looking to get either a Schmidt or a kahles for long range shooting wondering which is better be shooting out to 1000 yards
Rifle Scopes Schmidt bender or kahles
- Thread starter Oiange
- Start date
They are both great scopes and you will not be disappoint with ether one. I prefer the Kahles SKMR3 reticle and layout of the adjustments and parallax. Other great scopes to look at are the Minox and the Tangent Thea.
If we can be of help let us know.
If we can be of help let us know.
I was faced with the same question. And after explaining my primary concerns to CSTACTICAL were shooting in extreme low light conditions (hunting) CS TACTICAL steered me towards the Kahles. I was a little freaked out to be dropping this amount of money on an optic I had never tested. The Kahles 624i is as clear and bright as any other IMHO. Six months later a sale popped up on EURO OPTIC for a S&B 5x20 ultra short that I jumped on. A precision optic that far exceeds my skill set. One of my learning curves with the S&B is the MTC option is a precise tight adjustment that takes a little practice with to become proficient. Either vendor will do you right. Don't skimp.
Had a Kahles SKMR2, then got a S+B PM II 5-25 and had them both side by side. Ended up keeping the Schmidt and selling the Kahles. Glass on the Schmidt was a bit better, both slightly better resolution as well as much less CA. Minor nitpicks as both are great. I like Kahles turrets better, prefer the side parallax on the Schmidt, SKMR3 reticle is perhaps better for PRS competition than Schmidt options but either will work. I run H2CMR in mine. Don't like MTC turrets, haven't felt the need for locking turrets either.
As far as which one is "better" I say that the Schmidt wins on glass and the Kahles wins on features. Both are top tier and aren't going to hold you back.
As far as which one is "better" I say that the Schmidt wins on glass and the Kahles wins on features. Both are top tier and aren't going to hold you back.
Are premier good
I have 2 Kahles and 3 S&B and like them both very much. The S&B to my eye is better then the Kahles. Were I see the most difference is out past 800 or so yards. I would check out Eurooptics, Sport Optics, Milehigh shooting and CST and see who will give you the best deal. I just looked at Midway USA and they have as S&B 5x25 with MSR reticle on sale for $2441 as of 9 pm tonight. There are deals to be had. Good luck
I have a S&B 5-25x56 PMII and compared it directly with a Steiner 5-25x56, a Kahles K624i and my old Hensoldt 3-12x56 SSG-P. Immediately ordered a K624i. Compared to the S&B it was like someone turned on the light switch, I could see more detail despite heavy mirage out to 1000m, the field of view on the same magnification setting and the eye box are excellent. The layout of knobs is a plus, too.
Should arrive next week. I will then compare both the S&B and the Kahles without time limits.
Should arrive next week. I will then compare both the S&B and the Kahles without time limits.
These two are my biggest competitors right now, along with the Minox ZP5. Being up in Canada, I unfortunately dont get quite the deals you guys do, so the price difference is pretty large.
My question is, for me, the S&B PMII LP/MTC/LT is $3900 (no MTC/LT takes off $200), Minox is $3475, and Kahles is $3250. Now we all know S&B is quality, but could those with real world experience with each of these optics (or even just between the S&B/Kahles) tell me if the S&B is really worth the extra $400-$600?
My question is, for me, the S&B PMII LP/MTC/LT is $3900 (no MTC/LT takes off $200), Minox is $3475, and Kahles is $3250. Now we all know S&B is quality, but could those with real world experience with each of these optics (or even just between the S&B/Kahles) tell me if the S&B is really worth the extra $400-$600?
Prices for S&B skyrocketed after the PSR contract. The quality, however did not increase. Some even have plastic parts for parallax now, which lead to defective scopes when used with high recoil calibers. The "old" PMII scopes were "cheaper" and better in quality. That's what many people experience in Germany at least. The US/International scopes are made in Hungary if I am not mistaken. Take it for what it's worth. And stay off any S&B in Pantone, the coating is soft and chips off quite easily. Will sell my S&B if I get the chance.
this is one of those questions we all ask. and truthfully, unless you get both (and a handful of others) out to a range and sit next to them side by side, you really won't be able to tell much difference. I have both S&B pmII 5-25 and the Kahles k624i. my kahles has the skmr1, but ive had the skmr2,3 AMR, and MSR. My schmidts have the H2CMR and MSR. in the end the glass is great on all of them. the Schmidt will resolve better and this is most noticeable at dusk. so, you can see finer detail (say the edge of bullet splash on a target). the kahles is a little brighter, as that's how kahles does their scope coating. but again, they are very very close, and this is all being very nitpicky. I always thought the eyebox was great on the kahles (especially compared to the NF that I had), but the S&B is better. its just so easy to get behind
as far as ergonomics go, I really like the schmitds MTC locking turrets. I have bumped my windage on and before a stage and didn't figure it out till later. never had an issue with the locking turrets doing that. I also like the way the zero and zero stop reset on the Schmidt. its funny the first time as the "clicks" don't go away when you reset the zero, so you think "am I doing this right" but you are. so I have found it much easier to get the numbers on the dial to line up exactly at zero. the kahles has a more traditional "feel" when you reset the zero, and you need to pay much more attention to getting it to zero. again, very little things.
as far as reticles go, I like the h2cmr and for Schmidt and the prs game (or even hunting) I think its their best thing going. the msr is nice too. but kahles has Schmidt beat with the skmr line up (now just the 1 and 3 with floating dots). again, I'm sure someone out there just hates the floating dots.
really in the end, don't worry about the glass. they are both awesome and if the PRS is any indication on if it matters or not, out of the 3 guys tied for 1st. one runs a Schmidt and one runs a kahles. take a look at the reticles, then the ergonomics (top parallax) and make a decision based on that.
put it this way. I am one scope heavy right now. I have both a Schmidt and a Kahles gen3 up for sale cause to be honest, I can't decide which one to keep. so, i'll keep which ever one doesn't sell first. and i'll be happy either way!!
as far as ergonomics go, I really like the schmitds MTC locking turrets. I have bumped my windage on and before a stage and didn't figure it out till later. never had an issue with the locking turrets doing that. I also like the way the zero and zero stop reset on the Schmidt. its funny the first time as the "clicks" don't go away when you reset the zero, so you think "am I doing this right" but you are. so I have found it much easier to get the numbers on the dial to line up exactly at zero. the kahles has a more traditional "feel" when you reset the zero, and you need to pay much more attention to getting it to zero. again, very little things.
as far as reticles go, I like the h2cmr and for Schmidt and the prs game (or even hunting) I think its their best thing going. the msr is nice too. but kahles has Schmidt beat with the skmr line up (now just the 1 and 3 with floating dots). again, I'm sure someone out there just hates the floating dots.
really in the end, don't worry about the glass. they are both awesome and if the PRS is any indication on if it matters or not, out of the 3 guys tied for 1st. one runs a Schmidt and one runs a kahles. take a look at the reticles, then the ergonomics (top parallax) and make a decision based on that.
put it this way. I am one scope heavy right now. I have both a Schmidt and a Kahles gen3 up for sale cause to be honest, I can't decide which one to keep. so, i'll keep which ever one doesn't sell first. and i'll be happy either way!!
I have a Kahles K624i w. SkMR, S&B PMII 5-25×56 DT w. H2CMR, S&B PMII 3-20×50 MTC LT w. H2CMR, Premier Heritage 5-25×56 w. Gen 2XR, Premier Heritage Light Tactical 3-15×50w. Gen 2XR as my high end scopes. I have owned several other high end scopes.
As for comparison of S&B to Kahles, each Jas their strong points, but both are top tier optics that will be great to 1K+. I would put Premier right in their with these two also, maybe even a bit better glass to my eyes.
Kahles: Reticle (SKMR is my favorite reticle I have ever owned), ergonomics, eye box, illumination, weight, size.
S&B: Clarity, color, brightness, CA, locking turrets (on MTC LT).
Ties: Turrets, tracking, overall feel/quality.
As for comparison of S&B to Kahles, each Jas their strong points, but both are top tier optics that will be great to 1K+. I would put Premier right in their with these two also, maybe even a bit better glass to my eyes.
Kahles: Reticle (SKMR is my favorite reticle I have ever owned), ergonomics, eye box, illumination, weight, size.
S&B: Clarity, color, brightness, CA, locking turrets (on MTC LT).
Ties: Turrets, tracking, overall feel/quality.
I like my K624i more than the S&B pmll I had in every way. But to be more specific I would putt mechanicle performance at dead even probubly and give a lead to the Kahles on every thing else especially on features and I paid much less for my Kahles as a LNIB condition with AMR retical
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The Premier are great scopes, Tangent Theta is the updated Premier scopes and they are amazing.
Thanks for the kind words to all.
Mike @ CSTATICAL
Both Kahles and S&B are good. Choose the one with the reticle you like the most.
Exceptions to that:
-for lefties, Kahles parallax is easier to use
-optical performance at high magnification is better on the S&B
-performance at lower magnifications is better on the Kahles
At around $3k, my favourite scope is probably Minox ZP5. If money can be stretched a bit, Tangnet Theta is something special indeed.
Lastly, if it were my money, I would quite possibly also look at Vortex AMG 6-24x50. I am wrapping up with my test of the AMG and it is easily one of my favourite designs of the last couple of years. And it will save you some cash.
ILya
Exceptions to that:
-for lefties, Kahles parallax is easier to use
-optical performance at high magnification is better on the S&B
-performance at lower magnifications is better on the Kahles
At around $3k, my favourite scope is probably Minox ZP5. If money can be stretched a bit, Tangnet Theta is something special indeed.
Lastly, if it were my money, I would quite possibly also look at Vortex AMG 6-24x50. I am wrapping up with my test of the AMG and it is easily one of my favourite designs of the last couple of years. And it will save you some cash.
ILya
I'm not really sure as to which scopes you are referring that have plastic in the parallax assembly. All Scopes have a combination of brass and stainless steel components which are enclosed in a hard anodized aluminum housing. Your information is both horribly inaccurate and misinforming. The "old" PMII's as you referred to were manufactured with the exact same components as are still used today and prices in the past and still today are dictated by the economy and exchange rate of the USD to Euro.
To address the production location for our scopes. All scopes are made in Biebertal Germany with the exception of the Hungarian hunting scope line. The location of production is clearly engraved on top of every ocular housing. Most of the Hungarian models are the older tried and true Klassiks which are still in demand. These models offer the customer a less expensive hunting scope with the same German quality as all Schmidt Benders.
If anyone has any questions, issues or concerns regarding anything Schmidt Bender they are more than welcome to call me at the service center and I will be happy to assist in any way I can.
Likewise
koshkin can you go into some detail as to what it is about the Minox that makes you rate it to highly? Thanks
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This.
You’re splitting hairs at this point because you’re looking at two very high end optics. In addition, each persons eyes are going to be a little different. That said, I’ve consistently been able to resolve images faster and with less eye fatigue on an SB. I ended up selling my Kahles because it was just a slight fuzzy at high magnification.
The TT’s are really something nice, but don’t seem to get a lot of play right now because there are so many new scopes with different reticles and features that have come out in recent years. However the TT glass is very bright and clear, and the turrets are positive and tight. Big fan.
If my options were only SB vs Kahles, I’d take SB based on my years of sitting behind nearly every scope on the market. Good Luck!
i havent really done side by sides per say...but ive got access to, and checked out schmidts, kahles, tangent....pretty much everything except hensoldts...cost is set aside as the optic on my comp rifle is the one i feel benefits my shooting the best as a package...
schmidt - not a fan of the reticles
kahles - skmr3 is real nice...something about the glass doesnt fit my eye...seems too washed out and bright, looked thru multiple and not a fan
tangent - not a fan of the reticles, everything else is tits
minox - reticle is awesome as it gets...turrets are smooth, but id like them a bit more "clicky"...have a stiffer spot around 14 mils where the 2nd rev indicator actuates, but i dont care, as i spend pretty much zero time past 12 mils
if tangent would put a decent reticle in there, thats what i would have...but they dont, so theres a Minox ZP5 on my rifle
ill be getting my hands on one of the AMGs with the new ebr-7b also soon as i can find one
My first quality optic was the Khales 624i. Night and day compared to the Nikon... try out scopelist.com... negotiated final price 2,400 for the Khales. Love turrets and knobs...
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