• Watch Out for Scammers!

    We've now added a color code for all accounts. Orange accounts are new members, Blue are full members, and Green are Supporters. If you get a message about a sale from an orange account, make sure you pay attention before sending any money!

Rifle Scopes Scope for 0-600 yards??

A

amedeo1227

Private
Supporter
Full Member
Minuteman
Apr 15, 2012
207
69
41
Thibodaux, LA
I'm building my first bolt gun, I got more AR's than you can shake a stick at!

My range goes out to 600 yards. I'm building a 308 with a 20" barrel.

I'm trying to decide on a scope. First, do I spend $1000 Bushnell or Viper PST and eventually upgrade later. Or do I wait longer and buy a $2500 NF or Razor HD?

Second, what magnification? I'm mainly shooting targets, not that much steel. 100-300 yard groups, beyond that, I'm happy being on paper.

My current "high" magnification scope goes up to 9x. I know I want more than that, but is 25x needed for 600 yard shots? I'm not worried about seeing holes in paper, got a spotting scope for that.

I have no problem spending the money on a $2500 scope, I "get it". But I'm not spending more than that, no way.

I know a PST or a Bushnell elite tactical will get the job done, but is a Razor or a NF really that much better?

Short question: which brand and how much magnification doing 600 yard shots?
 
You really don't "need" more than a 12x scope, based on thousands of customer feedbacks. 10 years in this business and the commercial rule is 2x power for every 100 yards to target (the military rule of thumb is half that). Nevertheless, if you want a 24x-25x scope go for it.

There are different Bushnell Elite Tacticals, those above $1000 are much better than those below.

One very popular option is the Sightron SIII 6-24x in FFP or SFP.

Reading your post, you don't need a $2500 scope unless you just have to have it
 
I don't really "need" a NF, although I do respect them and feel they are, in my book, the best. (Please, people, don't start bashing or correcting, just my opinion that is hard to explain.) I think of NF as I think of my fishing gear: do I need a $500 fishing reel - no! If I loose the fish though, it's not the reel's fault. I like knowing I'm the weakest link, I like to know I never have to replace this. And something that I believe in that I read on these forums "BUY ONCE, CRY ONCE!"

I'm just not happy knowing that I gotta spend $2500 to be satisfied.

If the new Razor HD Gen II came in black, like the PST's, I'd be settled.
 
I have never spent 500 dollars on a fishing reel, but I have trophy fish on the wall. I have never spent 2500 dollars on a rifle scope, but I can hit a target at 600 yards with my old Burris 3x9. I am not a gear snob because I am broke, but I try to buy the best I can afford and have had good luck so far. For your purposes I would look at the SWFA 3x9 or 3x15. I have only heard good things about them. They are built to military specs so they should be very durable, and either would have plenty of magnification for your 600 yard range, also backed by an excellent warranty.
 
  • Like
Reactions: auskip07
I bought a 6.5-20x50 vortex viper (non illuminate) for $500 off opticsplanet.com love it so far!
 
$2500 for a scope that's going to be used for shooting < 600 yards is overkill. I understand that having reliable gear limits your excuses, but in this case you've set the bar unnecessarily high. Also remember that the glass clarity is more important than magnification.

For under $1K consider the following:
Bushnell Elite Tactical 3-12 or 6-24
SWFA 3-15
Sightron SIII 6-24
Vortex Viper PST 4-16 or 6-24
 
^^^^ CoonsMD mentions some great options, but I'm almost 66 and want as much power as I can get. The Vortex Razor HD 5-20X with MSR reticle is great for me. Excellent glass and fine reticle. Mile High had them with 35mm Suphr mount with built in level for under $2000 recently and may still be running that special. Tell them you're a Hide member. You can easily get out to 1000 yards with it, when future opportunities arise. It would be money well spent and I guaranty you would be happy. Good luck!
 
Half the battle is admitting the problem: yes, I CAN be a bit of a gear snob.

I do make a decent living. But, anytime I spend a nice chunk of money, I like knowing I got what I wanted, nothing more, nothing less, no regrets.

I do want "great glass". I don't want to spend $1k wishing I would've saved longer and bought better.

I also have another problem: I like my gear to look a certain way. I know it is superficial, I know it is a bad way of thinking when making certain decisions, and I know it is shallow at times.

I reason with it, it's like bolt fluting, people do it cause it's "pretty", every now and then some do it to save every bit of weight as possible, but I bet the majority is because it looks cool or whatever.

If the razor was black like the PST's, I would choose that, but I'm not gunna spray paint it. Yes, to some, I sound really shallow and pathetic, maybe some understand. I just want things a certain way, I'm shelling out big bucks, I want it how I like it.

By what some say, it sounds like the PST's don't provide the glass quality as the Razor's and NF's.

Looking for FFP, illuminated reticle, MIL/MIL, and extreme duribility.

I emailed Vortex to find out if there is a way to get a Razor in black, in the mean time it sounds like NF might be the front runner. I can use my 3-9x leupold till I got the funds for the end winner.

So 3.5-15x or 5-25x mag? I'm thinking 3.5-15x
 
amedeo1227 said:
Half the battle is admitting the problem: yes, I CAN be a bit of a gear snob.

I do make a decent living. But, anytime I spend a nice chunk of money, I like knowing I got what I wanted, nothing more, nothing less, no regrets.

I do want "great glass". I don't want to spend $1k wishing I would've saved longer and bought better.

I also have another problem: I like my gear to look a certain way. I know it is superficial, I know it is a bad way of thinking when making certain decisions, and I know it is shallow at times.

I reason with it, it's like bolt fluting, people do it cause it's "pretty", every now and then some do it to save every bit of weight as possible, but I bet the majority is because it looks cool or whatever.

If the razor was black like the PST's, I would choose that, but I'm not gunna spray paint it. Yes, to some, I sound really shallow and pathetic, maybe some understand. I just want things a certain way, I'm shelling out big bucks, I want it how I like it.

By what some say, it sounds like the PST's don't provide the glass quality as the Razor's and NF's.

Looking for FFP, illuminated reticle, MIL/MIL, and extreme duribility.

I emailed Vortex to find out if there is a way to get a Razor in black, in the mean time it sounds like NF might be the front runner. I can use my 3-9x leupold till I got the funds for the end winner.

So 3.5-15x or 5-25x mag? I'm thinking 3.5-15x
Click to expand...
Just wrap the scope body with black Coban (you can get on Amazon cheap). Color you want and prevents scratches. Problem solved.
 
sib1948 said:
^^^^ CoonsMD mentions some great options, but I'm almost 66 and want as much power as I can get. The Vortex Razor HD 5-20X with MSR reticle is great for me. Excellent glass and fine reticle. Mile High had them with 35mm Suphr mount with built in level for under $2000 recently and may still be running that special. Tell them you're a Hide member. You can easily get out to 1000 yards with it, when future opportunities arise. It would be money well spent and I guaranty you would be happy. Good luck!
Click to expand...

That deal is still listed in the group buy section and available on the Mile High sight. The mount is available in 0 or 20 moa and different heights.

That looks like a good deal..
 
DWood said:
That deal is still listed in the group buy section and available on the Mile High sight. The mount is available in 0 or 20 moa and different heights.

That looks like a good deal..
Click to expand...

+1 On that deal as well.

Since you're looking for a 3-15 power scope you might find a good deal on a used Premier 3-15x50 Tactical. I have one on my TRG-42 338 LM, one of the last few sold before being taken over by Tangent Theta Incorporated in early 2013. FWIW I have not had any of the parallax problems as some others have experienced with older models, but I have it in a completely different mount then most since it's made by Sako. I heard it was traced back to mounting issues with ring torque applied to the scopes tube causing the problems which was not addresses by PR prior to production, as well as after their knowledge of it later on. Tangent Theta from what I understand has fixed this issue and made other changes as well, although these new scopes are priced even higher then there older counter parts.

The Kahles K312 is another great scope that might interest your attention or a S&B 3-12x50/4-15x50, the Schmidt & Bender PMII line is top tear but you wont need me to tell you that, countless other's I'm sure would agree on that as well. Used can be a great way to go since people trade them for the next best thing out there, if you're patient a great deal can be had.
 
amedeo1227 said:
Second, what magnification? I'm mainly shooting targets, not that much steel. 100-300 yard groups, beyond that, I'm happy being on paper.
Click to expand...

If you are shooting paper - you should get as much quality AND magnification you can afford. Paper punching is dominated by Nightoforce and Sightron - both easily in your budget. Rolling around in the dirt and shooting large targets - is a different story.

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/f-class-f-t-r-competition/218548-1000-yard-power-setting.html
 
A guy named Orkan (a member of this site) has a awesome scope for sale that is well with in your price range, I think is still available. Its an IOR 3-18x42 35mm FFP MIL/MIL SF, MP-8 XTREME-X1 - $1500. This is a great deal, Look him up an send him a PM. He'll hook you up.
 
Scope for 0-600 yards??

phillip61 said:
A guy named Orkan (a member of this site) has a awesome scope for sale that is well with in your price range, I think is still available. Its an IOR 3-18x42 35mm FFP MIL/MIL SF, MP-8 XTREME-X1 - $1500. This is a great deal, Look him up an send him a PM. He'll hook you up.
Click to expand...

If that's available it's a great option.

I'd be looking at 3-12 or 15x or so with great glass. For your range I would want no more than 3 or 4 x at the bottom end. Khales 3-12 would be an excellent choice. Great glass at 12x is better than good glass at16x and is plenty good for 600+ yards. I will dial back to about 8x at 600.
 
I am keenly interested in this IOR (link below) as a 500 yard scope. Mine will go on an SPR style build though, not a .308.

IOR Valdada, Riflescopes, Tactical FFP,

I want something in a 30 mm tube that is light and compact. I shot at Central Virginia Tactical with Vern Harrison years ago and got to compare his 3-18 SFP IOR directly with my USO 3.2 - 17. The IOR glass was outstanding. They worked through knob calibration issues and adding FFP and all these years later I am thinking about giving it a try. I have a PM in for Scott at Liberty Optics to see when they will be back in stock.
 
I have the IOR 3.5-18X50 and love it. I've had no issues. The IOR Orkan has for sale is right in the OPs price range. I think he would like it. Or you for that matter.
 
i have a ar in 308 with a 18.5"bbl and i currently have a leica er 3-14x and love it! glass is amazing.......in fairness i like my nightforce benchrest on it better :) the nightforce benchrest scope i have is a 8-32x and are now found on sale for like 1120! the glass is as good as the leica imho but with the added benefit of extra magnification.
 
Jefe~ said:
This is below your budget, it is more scope than you need, and is some of the best glass available. Yes I like USO, no I don't know the seller, but it would certainly address all your needs.

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/optics-sale/236751-wts-us-optics-sn-3s-1-8-10x-erek-red-jng.html

If you want to save a little more, you could go with a new ST10 from USO for about $1600 depending on how you configured it.

Just a thought
Click to expand...

I've got a USO 1.8-10x44 on an sr-25. More than enough scope for OP's distances and very nice glass.
 
Does opticsplanet coupons work on higher end scopes? I.E. Hensoldt?

That could be an option if the timing is right
 
DWood said:
I am keenly interested in this IOR (link below) as a 500 yard scope. Mine will go on an SPR style build though, not a .308.

IOR Valdada, Riflescopes, Tactical FFP,

I want something in a 30 mm tube that is light and compact. I shot at Central Virginia Tactical with Vern Harrison years ago and got to compare his 3-18 SFP IOR directly with my USO 3.2 - 17. The IOR glass was outstanding. They worked through knob calibration issues and adding FFP and all these years later I am thinking about giving it a try. I have a PM in for Scott at Liberty Optics to see when they will be back in stock.
Click to expand...

Scott got the IOR in stock and I just ordered it. My 57 year old eyes will appreciate the extra magnification. And if it proves too be to big for the SPR build, it is a good excuse to buy another rifle for it.
 
DWood said:
Scott got the IOR in stock and I just ordered it. My 57 year old eyes will appreciate the extra magnification. And if it proves too be to big for the SPR build, it is a good excuse to buy another rifle for it.
Click to expand...

Welcome to the Brotherhood!
 
I had second thoughts about putting a 35 OZ scope on an 8 LB rifle. On further consideration and remembering that I won't be humping it in the bush, I told Scott to "send it". Now I need to figure out if the Larue SPR mount will provide the right eye relief or if I need the SPR-E.
 
LibertyOptics said:
You really don't "need" more than a 12x scope, based on thousands of customer feedbacks. 10 years in this business and the commercial rule is 2x power for every 100 yards to target (the military rule of thumb is half that). Nevertheless, if you want a 24x-25x scope go for it.

There are different Bushnell Elite Tacticals, those above $1000 are much better than those below.

One very popular option is the Sightron SIII 6-24x in FFP or SFP.

Reading your post, you don't need a $2500 scope unless you just have to have it
Click to expand...

I completely agree with Scott. I have 5 NF NXS scopes with HST's and ZS in the magnification range you are taking about. I recently bought a Bushnell Elite Tactical G2DMR 3.5-21X50 from Scott (not the 2014 version) since I had no need for the 10 mil turrets or the zero stops on the rifle it is mounted on. The glass on that scope is at least as good (clarity, resolution and chromatic aberration) as my NF NXS scopes. at under $1200 it is a great buy. It is made in Japan and built like a tank. Bushnell has really stepped up with this scope. If in the future I need a scope with the 10 mil turrets and zero stop I would not hesitate to get the new model which is still much less than my compareable NightForce scopes.
By the way Scott is a great guy to deal with and will go above and beyond to help you with your purchase.
 
Last edited:
lifebreath said:
If that's available it's a great option.

I'd be looking at 3-12 or 15x or so with great glass. For your range I would want no more than 3 or 4 x at the bottom end. Khales 3-12 would be an excellent choice. Great glass at 12x is better than good glass at16x and is plenty good for 600+ yards. I will dial back to about 8x at 600.
Click to expand...

ORKAN has a brand new Kahles K312 Mil/Mil CCW Mil-Dot reticle for $2,250.00 right now. Great scope, I have the same thing on my tactical 7mm-08 and love it.
 
Jefe~ said:
This is below your budget, it is more scope than you need, and is some of the best glass available. Yes I like USO, no I don't know the seller, but it would certainly address all your needs.

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/optics-sale/236751-wts-us-optics-sn-3s-1-8-10x-erek-red-jng.html

If you want to save a little more, you could go with a new ST10 from USO for about $1600 depending on how you configured it.

Just a thought
Click to expand...

That scope is now down to $1,650.00, great deal for what seems like almost new condition. I just bought one of these used a little cheaper only a T-pal version last week and it's a great scope, super clear glass, tracks perfectly and isn't way too big and long like a lot of the higher magnification scopes on the market. I mounted in on a 280 AI that had a Zeiss VM/V 5-15x42 that got moved to a R5 223.

If your look around you'll find a deal if you act fast enough when the price drops.
 
How "perfect" do you need? In my mind there are only a few things that make a difference in scopes.

(1) Optics.
(2) Consistency/repeatability/reliability
(3) Accuracy in either Mils or MOA of adjustments

Now, I know that there are other factors, but I think that those three are the "big three". Once you get beyond a certain point in optical quality, having better means almost nothing in real terms except maybe MONEY. Consistency/repeatability are pretty important, ESPECIALLY when shooting targets at varying distances.Yes, more money can buy more reliability, so if you make a habit of beating the heck out of your equipment in the back of a pickup truck or some kind of a 4 wheeler....yes you probably need equipment at the "high end" of the spectrum. Me? My stuff goes from the case (was inside the cab of the truck) to the firing line and I take a good deal of care to NOT beat it around. Thirdly, when you move the knob 1 1/2 MOA or 3 tenths of a MIL or whatever, you expect the impact to move an appropriate distance at the impact point, This is important especial when engaging a target at, say 425 yards and then rapidly cranking things out to engage a target at, say 850 yards.

Once you exceed the the degree of "perfection" that exceeds YOUR NEEDS, you are just wasting money and maybe gaining "bragging rights" How important is all that to you? I know guys that today can just SMOKE targets at whatever distances and then next week GET smoked while using THE EXACT EQUIPMENT THEY USED the last time they shot by someone rated as not all that good. Now, what is the big difference between those two times? Maybe just having a bad day? Maybe got their head screwed on a little wrong or the zero not right for them, or maybe just doing something stupid like cranking a knob the wrong way (and don't tell me you've NEVER done THAT!). Is any of this a shortcoming of the equipment? NO! It is the shooter and the performance of the shooter that is the biggest factor in day-today or week-to week results.

My point here? MATCH THE EQUIPMENT to the ability of the shooter (give yourself a little room to "grow into" the equipment)! If you want to get better, spend the money you saved on equipment you DON'T NEED to buy or build ammo to PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE. Oh...and lear to be a "WIZARD" with wind calls. Do those two things and you'll be AMAZED at the progress you can make!
 
amedeo1227 said:
Half the battle is admitting the problem: yes, I CAN be a bit of a gear snob.

I do make a decent living. But, anytime I spend a nice chunk of money, I like knowing I got what I wanted, nothing more, nothing less, no regrets.

I do want "great glass". I don't want to spend $1k wishing I would've saved longer and bought better.

I also have another problem: I like my gear to look a certain way. I know it is superficial, I know it is a bad way of thinking when making certain decisions, and I know it is shallow at times.

I reason with it, it's like bolt fluting, people do it cause it's "pretty", every now and then some do it to save every bit of weight as possible, but I bet the majority is because it looks cool or whatever.

If the razor was black like the PST's, I would choose that, but I'm not gunna spray paint it. Yes, to some, I sound really shallow and pathetic, maybe some understand. I just want things a certain way, I'm shelling out big bucks, I want it how I like it.

By what some say, it sounds like the PST's don't provide the glass quality as the Razor's and NF's.

Looking for FFP, illuminated reticle, MIL/MIL, and extreme duribility.

I emailed Vortex to find out if there is a way to get a Razor in black, in the mean time it sounds like NF might be the front runner. I can use my 3-9x leupold till I got the funds for the end winner.

So 3.5-15x or 5-25x mag? I'm thinking 3.5-15x
Click to expand...
I like the PST. I have a NF too and it is better for sure, I don't know if it's over a grand better though??? PST is a pretty dang good scope. I had this one on my ar-308 and sold the gun but I havent sold the scope. For the money, it's a hell of a lot of scope with great features. If you aren't going to spring for a NF or a Razor, then the PST is what I'd get.

Btw- the AMG is a lot lighter and it comes in black and. Has excellent glass. I have one of those on order too.
 
LibertyOptics said:
You really don't "need" more than a 12x scope, based on thousands of customer feedbacks. 10 years in this business and the commercial rule is 2x power for every 100 yards to target (the military rule of thumb is half that). Nevertheless, if you want a 24x-25x scope go for it.

There are different Bushnell Elite Tacticals, those above $1000 are much better than those below.

One very popular option is the Sightron SIII 6-24x in FFP or SFP.

Reading your post, you don't need a $2500 scope unless you just have to have it
Click to expand...

Sightron S3 is a lot of scope for the cash.......

Do the new S3s have a zero stop of some kind? I have a 10-50 that is a few years old which doesn't but it is still a great scope for the cash - Ive took mine to 1000 comfortably in F Class.

At 700 yards I could see the mounting bolts in a 2/3 IDPA target.
 
amedeo1227 said:
Half the battle is admitting the problem: yes, I CAN be a bit of a gear snob.

I do make a decent living. But, anytime I spend a nice chunk of money, I like knowing I got what I wanted, nothing more, nothing less, no regrets.

I do want "great glass". I don't want to spend $1k wishing I would've saved longer and bought better.

I also have another problem: I like my gear to look a certain way. I know it is superficial, I know it is a bad way of thinking when making certain decisions, and I know it is shallow at times.

I reason with it, it's like bolt fluting, people do it cause it's "pretty", every now and then some do it to save every bit of weight as possible, but I bet the majority is because it looks cool or whatever.

If the razor was black like the PST's, I would choose that, but I'm not gunna spray paint it. Yes, to some, I sound really shallow and pathetic, maybe some understand. I just want things a certain way, I'm shelling out big bucks, I want it how I like it.

By what some say, it sounds like the PST's don't provide the glass quality as the Razor's and NF's.

Looking for FFP, illuminated reticle, MIL/MIL, and extreme duribility.

I emailed Vortex to find out if there is a way to get a Razor in black, in the mean time it sounds like NF might be the front runner. I can use my 3-9x leupold till I got the funds for the end winner.

So 3.5-15x or 5-25x mag? I'm thinking 3.5-15x
Click to expand...

I like high magnification so I'd go for 5-25 minimum, you can always dial magnification down......

I run a 10-50X and cant ever remember a time where I felt I'd like less magnification than 10X.

I have a 7-35X ATACR with MIL XT reticle on order - will be my first tree type FFP scope, will also be my first MIL scope - looking forward to getting it.
 
loveha said:
I would love to know how people dig up these ancient threads and respond to them like the person is still looking 7 years later.
Click to expand...
OK...so now you'll find out, huh? Me...I happen to be sitting at my computer with nothing else to do for a few minutes and stumbled across the thread, which I read and then responded to as this question pretty much is constantly asked. TOTALLY AMAZING, WEIRD, and just OFF THE CHARTS unimaginable huh?

Others, I can't speak for, but as a shooter for over 60 years and a competitor for many of those years with scoped handguns AND now scoped rifles shooting at various distances from 100 yards to 1000 yards in local club, state, regional and national matches get asked about scopes all the time, and so know that this question NEVER goes out of date. Not to mention that, once asked on most all sites on the net, a question doesn't "calendar out" and just disappear or get removed. I don't know if you have noticed it or not, but our sport has new shooters coming into it all the time and they are trying to learn the same stuff that YOU learned back in the days when YOU started out.
 
Last edited:
So, here we care 7 years later and i am back in the same boat. I know more now and i can give closure to the original question.

I ended up getting a Gen2 Razor in Black. Yes in black. EuroOptics had 10 that were part of military trial or bid or something at one point. Also, i am back in the market for another scope. Getting one from CSTactical. NF NX8. Needs are changing. And while i started out my journey to get "the best" scope out there - my lifestyle changed a bit. Now i am into more hunting than what I was. Thus needing something more rugged. Locking turrets, able to take a bump, not as heavy would be nice.

I am glad I got it, and I will never get rid of this, but I am always looking for new stuff. I think i got my scope after the NF picked out already!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

G
Rifle Scopes Bushnell XRS3 6-36x56 G4P MIL
Replies
3
Views
215
Rob01
Rob01
P
Scope Options with a set of criteria
Replies
36
Views
583
PotbellyVandal
P
L
NF Atacr FFP 4-16x42 v SFP 4-16x50 Mil-R
Replies
7
Views
321
sjbryan65
sjbryan65
B
Anything better than PST Gen2 2-10x32 for under $1k?
Replies
32
Views
2K
AK264
A
J
FOV comparisons
Replies
4
Views
263
Jmeier1981
J
Top Bottom
Back