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Self defense and bystanders

Mister Ridge

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
  • Aug 15, 2011
    1,534
    1,818
    Maryland
    There is a photo that's been circulating showing a "protester" with an unholstered pistol in the low ready position staring down a GMC truck. Usually, it gets responses about running the guy over. Given that the pistolero is in a crowd, I assume that driver could face legal liability for hitting any unarmed people in the process of running over the assailant?
     
    Depends...a good attorney could argue the "bystanders" were complicit and aiding to the threat to the drivers life.

    I would certainly argue the "bystanders" were actively impeeding my retreat from a dangerous threat


    Personally I would have put the car in 4-lo and matted the throttle and deal with the aftermath later....ide rather be sued than dead
     
    That looks like an open and shut assault case to me.
     
    Drive with your pet in the vehicle as much as possible.

    "I was just defending Bowzer"

    Id say just drive around with a baby, but...
     
    I'd like to hear a Defense / Prosecuting Attorney position on this. Anything else is conjecture.
     
    Diversity in numbers aka disparity of force.
     
    i wouldn't suggest running over anyone unless they are pointing it at you. even then maybe not, if we take our personal feelings out.
     
    In a functioning society a justice official would tell fuckface to stop impeding tax payers from using the public ways and bring the situation to peaceful resolution.

    If the goal is to create a society along the lines of "Lord of the Flies" than Horsepower always wins out over man power.

    Govt is failing its mandate.
     
    i wouldn't suggest running over anyone unless they are pointing it at you. even then maybe not, if we take our personal feelings out.
    If you have a gun at low ready, and are blocking me from moving freely, you are getting run the fuck over.

    All you need for deadly force is a reasonable fear for your life...someone holding a gun and blocking your free movement more than meets that justification

    Hell, otherwise , I could Rob any bank without reprisal so long as I don't actually point the gun at anyone.

    And you honestly wouldn't act if someone was actively pointing a gun at you??

    What's your plan? wait until they kill you first before you decide to use force?
     
    I'll go with what the police use.
    You approach a patrol car with a pistol drawn and carried out in front of you, pointing at an angle or straight forward....
    You'll get an order to drop it... if you are lucky.

    Drawn pistol carried in hand in an aggressive manner = you are putting someone in fear for their life.
     
    If you have a gun at low ready, and are blocking me from moving freely, you are getting run the fuck over.

    All you need for deadly force is a reasonable fear for your life...someone holding a gun and blocking your free movement more than meets that justification

    Hell, otherwise , I could Rob any bank without reprisal so long as I don't actually point the gun at anyone.

    And you honestly wouldn't act if someone was actively pointing a gun at you??

    What's your plan? wait until they kill you first before you decide to use force?
    lol, i didn't say what you should do, or even what i would do, only what i would not suggest "on the line" for anyone else to do. :whistle:

     
    All you need for deadly force is a reasonable fear for your life...someone holding a gun and blocking your free movement more than meets that justification
    Not quite... Do they have the means to harm you? Do they have the intent to harm you? Are you actually in imminent jeopardy? Those are the general guidelines, with a lot of states adding things that put you in the right side of the law to defend yourself. You might get off in that scenario, or you might spend the rest of your life in prison. Especially in states that are really picky about the decision to not simply leave when that is an option.

    If you live by the police's rules, you're probably going to prison. Police are treated differently with use of force, in the when, and how much, departments.
     
    Collateral damage is any death, injury, or other damage inflicted that is an unintended result of military operations. If the government uses it must be legal for us to use it. Angry mob protesting and blocking a road or highway is just collateral damage if they chose to stand in front of your bumper, remember to tell the judge you used your horn to alert the bystanders that way you can drag in the car company for a poor design of a horn if the bystanders didn't move.
     
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    Not quite... Do they have the means to harm you? Do they have the intent to harm you? Are you actually in imminent jeopardy? Those are the general guidelines, with a lot of states adding things that put you in the right side of the law to defend yourself. You might get off in that scenario, or you might spend the rest of your life in prison. Especially in states that are really picky about the decision to not simply leave when that is an option.

    If you live by the police's rules, you're probably going to prison. Police are treated differently with use of force, in the when, and how much, departments.
    Yes.....obviously they have a means to hurt you, they are armed, and someone standing in front of you with a firearm drawn preventing you from leaving IS a threat to your life, and you are in immenent jeopardy.

    You don't have to know their intentions, you aren't a mind reader.....that's like saying I can run at someone with a knife so long as I don't intend to stab them.

    A lot of people have been killed by muggers who never " intended " to kill anyone

    You COULD spend the rest of your life in jail for ANY shooting no matter how justified depending on the lawyer, nothing is guaranteed.
     
    It amazes me that protesting on a public street is even a thing. You have a right to protest but why stand in a high traffic area where people that have nothing to do with your shit are just passing through for work etc? Then they act surprised when one of them gets run over while they try to intimidate a passer by! Same as the idiots on one of the riot vids from MN, they smash the windows in a little mom n pop shop, run in and start trashing the place. Then pow pow pow and they start running out screming "oh shit" cause the owner fired at them!?!? What did you expect dumbasses?
     
    Maybe we should ask dogs what compels these leftist protesters to chase cars?
     
    It amazes me that protesting on a public street is even a thing. You have a right to protest but why stand in a high traffic area where people that have nothing to do with your shit are just passing through for work etc? Then they act surprised when one of them gets run over while they try to intimidate a passer by! Same as the idiots on one of the riot vids from MN, they smash the windows in a little mom n pop shop, run in and start trashing the place. Then pow pow pow and they start running out screming "oh shit" cause the owner fired at them!?!? What did you expect dumbasses?
    When their leaders told them how glorious this Marxist Revolution was going to be, they forgot to tell them that “normal” people are going to fight back. They thought it would all go their way...
     
    I'd like to hear a Defense / Prosecuting Attorney position on this. Anything else is conjecture.

    Even Prosecuting Attorneys or Criminal Defense Lawyers commenting would be conjecture. That is... unless they were involved in the case and knew ALL the facts, in which case, they wouldn't comment anyway.

    Opinions from attorneys (never assume all attorneys are experts in criminal law), law enforcement, and whoever, are just that.... opinions. Statutory and Case Law are supposed to give us a guideline as to how these situations would ultimately end up legally. But todays climate has turned it all upside down. Emotion (politics) seems to play an increasing role depending on what part of the country you live in.

    The only definitive legal conclusion to this scenario comes from the verdict from a jury of your peers, or a decision from a judge in a bench trial. The driver has a decision to make.

    But in the mean time..... the mental masturbation is fun!