I just got a new can, and am selling my old one to my brother-in-law.I have been told by a couple different guys that I can just add him to my trust, get it noterized and he would be legal to take possession with no wait. Based on Uncle Sam's reputation for never turning down a chance to take another 200 of my dollars & thinking they need to know where my stuff is at, I'm thinking what I have been told is not right. But dose anyone know for sure?
Suppressors selling a suppressor?
- Thread starter Jthompson
- Start date
Re: selling a suppressor?
Guess the question is....do you want him and it still linked to your trust after you decide to almost give up control of it. Sounds like it could be loophole but do you wish to really just let it go when its your name attached to it?
Guess the question is....do you want him and it still linked to your trust after you decide to almost give up control of it. Sounds like it could be loophole but do you wish to really just let it go when its your name attached to it?
Re: selling a suppressor?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: i_rep</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Guess the question is....do you want him and it still linked to your trust after you decide to almost give up control of it. Sounds like it could be loophole but do you wish to really just let it go when its your name attached to it? </div></div>
This...... Reason I tell people I don't have a trust.
I don't want to be responsible for any others actions. I am only in control of me. Brother in law or any other retard is not going to put my stuff in jeopardy. Something to think about.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: i_rep</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Guess the question is....do you want him and it still linked to your trust after you decide to almost give up control of it. Sounds like it could be loophole but do you wish to really just let it go when its your name attached to it? </div></div>
This...... Reason I tell people I don't have a trust.
I don't want to be responsible for any others actions. I am only in control of me. Brother in law or any other retard is not going to put my stuff in jeopardy. Something to think about.
Re: selling a suppressor?
If you decide to go the smart route and transfer it to him in the normal way. He will need to fill out a form 4 where you are basically the dealer (transferor). Fill out that section exactly how your form 4 reads in the transferee section. He pays $200 and you keep possession until it clears.
If you decide to go the smart route and transfer it to him in the normal way. He will need to fill out a form 4 where you are basically the dealer (transferor). Fill out that section exactly how your form 4 reads in the transferee section. He pays $200 and you keep possession until it clears.
Re: selling a suppressor?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jonaddis84</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you decide to go the smart route and transfer it to him in the normal way. He will need to fill out a form 4 where you are basically the dealer (transferor). Fill out that section exactly how your form 4 reads in the transferee section. He pays $200 and you keep possession until it clears. </div></div>
This, do it right.
One of my grandpa's favorite sayings was "cheap tricks can have expensive consequences"
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jonaddis84</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you decide to go the smart route and transfer it to him in the normal way. He will need to fill out a form 4 where you are basically the dealer (transferor). Fill out that section exactly how your form 4 reads in the transferee section. He pays $200 and you keep possession until it clears. </div></div>
This, do it right.
One of my grandpa's favorite sayings was "cheap tricks can have expensive consequences"
Re: selling a suppressor?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jthompson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just got a new can, and am selling my old one to my brother-in-law.I have been told by a couple different guys that I can just add him to my trust, get it noterized and he would be legal to take possession with no wait. Based on Uncle Sam's reputation for never turning down a chance to take another 200 of my dollars & thinking they need to know where my stuff is at, I'm thinking what I have been told is not right. But dose anyone know for sure? </div></div>
Yes, you can add him to the Trust and he can then immediately legally possess any items owned by the Trust, provided he is not a prohibited person and those items are otherwise legal where he lives.
I'll take the contrarian opinion here. If your BIL is someone you basically trust and want to be around in the first place, I don't see a problem with adding him to the Trust.
You don't have to give him the combo to your safe with all of your NFA goods. It's not like it's a power of attorney that gives him access to your home to get your stuff to sell it if he develops a cocaine habit next week. You still have total control over "your" gear even if it's the Trust that legally "owns" it.
If he hijacks a plane or robs a bank, it's not like the ATF is going to come to your house and take your stuff. And in any case, a well-written trust has provisions for what happens if a Trustee suddenly becomes a prohibited person.
If you drop dead, that doesn't mean he automatically inherits the NFA stuff in your safe.
A little paranoia is good, but if your BIL is a good guy, why not append his name to the Trust? The real-world risk is near zero.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jthompson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just got a new can, and am selling my old one to my brother-in-law.I have been told by a couple different guys that I can just add him to my trust, get it noterized and he would be legal to take possession with no wait. Based on Uncle Sam's reputation for never turning down a chance to take another 200 of my dollars & thinking they need to know where my stuff is at, I'm thinking what I have been told is not right. But dose anyone know for sure? </div></div>
Yes, you can add him to the Trust and he can then immediately legally possess any items owned by the Trust, provided he is not a prohibited person and those items are otherwise legal where he lives.
I'll take the contrarian opinion here. If your BIL is someone you basically trust and want to be around in the first place, I don't see a problem with adding him to the Trust.
You don't have to give him the combo to your safe with all of your NFA goods. It's not like it's a power of attorney that gives him access to your home to get your stuff to sell it if he develops a cocaine habit next week. You still have total control over "your" gear even if it's the Trust that legally "owns" it.
If he hijacks a plane or robs a bank, it's not like the ATF is going to come to your house and take your stuff. And in any case, a well-written trust has provisions for what happens if a Trustee suddenly becomes a prohibited person.
If you drop dead, that doesn't mean he automatically inherits the NFA stuff in your safe.
A little paranoia is good, but if your BIL is a good guy, why not append his name to the Trust? The real-world risk is near zero.
Re: selling a suppressor?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gasdoc09</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I'll take the contrarian opinion here. If your BIL is someone you basically trust and want to be around in the first place, I don't see a problem with adding him to the Trust.
You don't have to give him the combo to your safe with all of your NFA goods. It's not like it's a power of attorney that gives him access to your home to get your stuff to sell it if he develops a cocaine habit next week. <span style="font-weight: bold">You still have total control over "your" gear even if it's the Trust that legally "owns" it.</span>
If you drop dead, that doesn't mean he automatically inherits the NFA stuff in your safe.
</div></div>
Not so sure on this. You do have control over the items, but lets say their is an argument between the two at some point in time, he not only has joint ownership to that suppressor (as the OP would still too), but anything else in that trust.
I don't know if you could have a stipulation written in that he only has a right to that specific suppressor. Maybe you could write a clause that only entitles the BIL co-trustee a certain portion, but I think you can only go percentage of trust ownership not specific items. Not unless he was a benefactor with it specifically written in that he gets that suppressor, but then as I understand it you can't be a benefactor and co-trustee.
The old saying of business and family don't mix rings true for a reason. And while there are always exceptions, my sibling focuses on trust and estate law, and talks about numerous family fights that take place over stuff like this.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gasdoc09</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I'll take the contrarian opinion here. If your BIL is someone you basically trust and want to be around in the first place, I don't see a problem with adding him to the Trust.
You don't have to give him the combo to your safe with all of your NFA goods. It's not like it's a power of attorney that gives him access to your home to get your stuff to sell it if he develops a cocaine habit next week. <span style="font-weight: bold">You still have total control over "your" gear even if it's the Trust that legally "owns" it.</span>
If you drop dead, that doesn't mean he automatically inherits the NFA stuff in your safe.
</div></div>
Not so sure on this. You do have control over the items, but lets say their is an argument between the two at some point in time, he not only has joint ownership to that suppressor (as the OP would still too), but anything else in that trust.
I don't know if you could have a stipulation written in that he only has a right to that specific suppressor. Maybe you could write a clause that only entitles the BIL co-trustee a certain portion, but I think you can only go percentage of trust ownership not specific items. Not unless he was a benefactor with it specifically written in that he gets that suppressor, but then as I understand it you can't be a benefactor and co-trustee.
The old saying of business and family don't mix rings true for a reason. And while there are always exceptions, my sibling focuses on trust and estate law, and talks about numerous family fights that take place over stuff like this.
Re: selling a suppressor?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Doogie</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gasdoc09</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I'll take the contrarian opinion here. If your BIL is someone you basically trust and want to be around in the first place, I don't see a problem with adding him to the Trust.
You don't have to give him the combo to your safe with all of your NFA goods. It's not like it's a power of attorney that gives him access to your home to get your stuff to sell it if he develops a cocaine habit next week. <span style="font-weight: bold">You still have total control over "your" gear even if it's the Trust that legally "owns" it.</span>
If you drop dead, that doesn't mean he automatically inherits the NFA stuff in your safe.
</div></div>
Not so sure on this. You do have control over the items, but lets say their is an argument between the two at some point in time, he not only has joint ownership to that suppressor (as the OP would still too), but anything else in that trust.
I don't know if you could have a stipulation written in that he only has a right to that specific suppressor. Maybe you could write a clause that only entitles the BIL co-trustee a certain portion, but I think you can only go percentage of trust ownership not specific items. Not unless he was a benefactor with it specifically written in that he gets that suppressor, but then as I understand it you can't be a benefactor and co-trustee.
The old saying of business and family don't mix rings true for a reason. And while there are always exceptions, my sibling focuses on trust and estate law, and talks about numerous family fights that take place over stuff like this. </div></div>
It either belongs to the Trust or it doesn't.
You can't divvy up who owns what or cam make decisions about what items.
The trust either owns it or it doesn't.
I wouldn't mix non-immediate family with your toys, but thats just me.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Doogie</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gasdoc09</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I'll take the contrarian opinion here. If your BIL is someone you basically trust and want to be around in the first place, I don't see a problem with adding him to the Trust.
You don't have to give him the combo to your safe with all of your NFA goods. It's not like it's a power of attorney that gives him access to your home to get your stuff to sell it if he develops a cocaine habit next week. <span style="font-weight: bold">You still have total control over "your" gear even if it's the Trust that legally "owns" it.</span>
If you drop dead, that doesn't mean he automatically inherits the NFA stuff in your safe.
</div></div>
Not so sure on this. You do have control over the items, but lets say their is an argument between the two at some point in time, he not only has joint ownership to that suppressor (as the OP would still too), but anything else in that trust.
I don't know if you could have a stipulation written in that he only has a right to that specific suppressor. Maybe you could write a clause that only entitles the BIL co-trustee a certain portion, but I think you can only go percentage of trust ownership not specific items. Not unless he was a benefactor with it specifically written in that he gets that suppressor, but then as I understand it you can't be a benefactor and co-trustee.
The old saying of business and family don't mix rings true for a reason. And while there are always exceptions, my sibling focuses on trust and estate law, and talks about numerous family fights that take place over stuff like this. </div></div>
It either belongs to the Trust or it doesn't.
You can't divvy up who owns what or cam make decisions about what items.
The trust either owns it or it doesn't.
I wouldn't mix non-immediate family with your toys, but thats just me.
Re: selling a suppressor?
You just posted on a public forum which ATF agents frequent that you're thinking about trying to essentially transfer an NFA item by possibly circumventing the acceptable and legal method... and your user name is probably close to your actual name along with your location. Not the brightest idea... Just sayin.
You just posted on a public forum which ATF agents frequent that you're thinking about trying to essentially transfer an NFA item by possibly circumventing the acceptable and legal method... and your user name is probably close to your actual name along with your location. Not the brightest idea... Just sayin.
Re: selling a suppressor?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You just posted on a public forum which ATF agents frequent that you're thinking about trying to essentially transfer an NFA item by possibly circumventing the acceptable and legal method... and your user name is probably close to your actual name along with your location. Not the brightest idea... Just sayin. </div></div>
Another overreaction, IMO. There is no sale here. Adding a Trustee is not a sale.
The entire POINT of having NFA trusts in the first place is to simplify ownership of NFA items in a legal, transparent way to simply asset ownership and allow multiple people (particularly families) to have access to them.
What we're talking about is adding a family member to a Trust to expand the number of authorized users/possessors. This is why NFA trusts exist.
Although, it would probably be better, at least for the sake of appearances and semantics, if the BIL's money went to the Trust account for future NFA purchases and he simply took custody of the suppressor. As opposed to characterizing it as a "sale" with a receipt and handshake in which money goes from the BIL to a Trustee.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You just posted on a public forum which ATF agents frequent that you're thinking about trying to essentially transfer an NFA item by possibly circumventing the acceptable and legal method... and your user name is probably close to your actual name along with your location. Not the brightest idea... Just sayin. </div></div>
Another overreaction, IMO. There is no sale here. Adding a Trustee is not a sale.
The entire POINT of having NFA trusts in the first place is to simplify ownership of NFA items in a legal, transparent way to simply asset ownership and allow multiple people (particularly families) to have access to them.
What we're talking about is adding a family member to a Trust to expand the number of authorized users/possessors. This is why NFA trusts exist.
Although, it would probably be better, at least for the sake of appearances and semantics, if the BIL's money went to the Trust account for future NFA purchases and he simply took custody of the suppressor. As opposed to characterizing it as a "sale" with a receipt and handshake in which money goes from the BIL to a Trustee.
Re: selling a suppressor?
Amend the trust, have it notarized and have him start his Form4's then once the form4's clear have it re amended and let him go on his own way. That way it would be convienent and safe for all of you
Amend the trust, have it notarized and have him start his Form4's then once the form4's clear have it re amended and let him go on his own way. That way it would be convienent and safe for all of you
Re: selling a suppressor?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gasdoc09</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You just posted on a public forum which ATF agents frequent that you're thinking about trying to essentially transfer an NFA item by possibly circumventing the acceptable and legal method... and your user name is probably close to your actual name along with your location. Not the brightest idea... Just sayin. </div></div>
Another overreaction, IMO. There is no sale here. Adding a Trustee is not a sale.
The entire POINT of having NFA trusts in the first place is to simplify ownership of NFA items in a legal, transparent way to simply asset ownership and allow multiple people (particularly families) to have access to them.
What we're talking about is adding a family member to a Trust to expand the number of authorized users/possessors. This is why NFA trusts exist.
Although, it would probably be better, at least for the sake of appearances and semantics, if the BIL's money went to the Trust account for future NFA purchases and he simply took custody of the suppressor. As opposed to characterizing it as a "sale" with a receipt and handshake in which money goes from the BIL to a Trustee. </div></div>
Lol... Read much? If you did then you would notice I wasn't the one who is "Characterizing it as a "sale" and in fact the OP was...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jthompson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just got a new can, and am selling my old one to my brother-in-law.</div></div>
And a reaction involves emotion. I don't really give a shit but was simply giving an observation to the stupidity of the thread and question from a legal standpoint. And BTW... adding someone to a Trust for the purpose of transferring ownership is still a transfer no matter how you look at it.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gasdoc09</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You just posted on a public forum which ATF agents frequent that you're thinking about trying to essentially transfer an NFA item by possibly circumventing the acceptable and legal method... and your user name is probably close to your actual name along with your location. Not the brightest idea... Just sayin. </div></div>
Another overreaction, IMO. There is no sale here. Adding a Trustee is not a sale.
The entire POINT of having NFA trusts in the first place is to simplify ownership of NFA items in a legal, transparent way to simply asset ownership and allow multiple people (particularly families) to have access to them.
What we're talking about is adding a family member to a Trust to expand the number of authorized users/possessors. This is why NFA trusts exist.
Although, it would probably be better, at least for the sake of appearances and semantics, if the BIL's money went to the Trust account for future NFA purchases and he simply took custody of the suppressor. As opposed to characterizing it as a "sale" with a receipt and handshake in which money goes from the BIL to a Trustee. </div></div>
Lol... Read much? If you did then you would notice I wasn't the one who is "Characterizing it as a "sale" and in fact the OP was...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jthompson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just got a new can, and am selling my old one to my brother-in-law.</div></div>
And a reaction involves emotion. I don't really give a shit but was simply giving an observation to the stupidity of the thread and question from a legal standpoint. And BTW... adding someone to a Trust for the purpose of transferring ownership is still a transfer no matter how you look at it.
Re: selling a suppressor?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: trophyhunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Amend the trust, have it notarized and have him start his Form4's then once the form4's clear have it re amended and let him go on his own way. That way it would be convienent and safe for all of you </div></div>
This was my thought/question throughout reading this thread.
DISCLAIMER TO BATFE AGENTS READING THIS: I am not, have not, and would not, transfer an NFA item this way. I am merely asking the opinion of others.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: trophyhunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Amend the trust, have it notarized and have him start his Form4's then once the form4's clear have it re amended and let him go on his own way. That way it would be convienent and safe for all of you </div></div>
This was my thought/question throughout reading this thread.
DISCLAIMER TO BATFE AGENTS READING THIS: I am not, have not, and would not, transfer an NFA item this way. I am merely asking the opinion of others.
