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Shipping gunpowder advice/help/how to? Please.

dave300

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
  • Feb 27, 2013
    741
    60
    Las Vegas, Nevada
    Sorry folks if this is in the wrong place.
    Does anyone know if its ok and how to ship gunpowder? UPS hazmat section is closed for the weekend and I need a quicker answer than that. Please limit your answers to actual knowledge or links to where I can find an answer.
    UPS description is very all over the place to say the least.
    Thank you in advance for any recent experiences, costs, etc and I am not interested in shipping it without declaring what is inside, just simply not looking for any trouble. This will be private party to private party and probably not more than an 8lb keg.
    Dave
     
    You can ship ammo but I don't think you are allowed to ship powder or primers.

    DOT training and cert is required, i believe. And must be shipped in DOT approved packaging.

    Or, you could just box it up, take it to UPS, hand to the counter person and tell them what's in there. They will let you know pretty quick if you can ship it.
     
    Last edited:
    Without HAZMAT shipper's credentials, you cannot ship powder or primers. You can, however, ship ammo.

    No shipping company would touch that would a ten-foot poll. You'd be wasting your time taking it anywhere.

    You'd also be breaking the shipping company policy (and several laws) if your caught not telling them that what's in the box is potentially "dangerous or explosive" and trying to ship it.

    Most shippers frown upon shipping ammo, so you kinda have to go in there with their company policy saying ammo is ok.
     
    Thrusty, I did but the reference they say to look at, consider and follow are just to much for me to understand the intent. Guess I'm bout ready to give in on trying to shoot/load development this spring. Just coming to realize this isn't fun working on finding powder, primers, bullets constantly.
    Thanks though!
    Dunno if you've look at these sources...they may help you out.

    UPS HAZMAT resource page: http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/resources/ship/hazardous/index.html

    UPS HAZMAT shippers responsibilities: http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/resources/ship/hazardous/responsible/index.html
     
    simple answer - do not do it - it is not worth the bother/ risk/ expense - it is as practical as wanting to ship 5 gallons of gasoline a few states away

    if you have powder that you are hot to sell do it local on armslist
     
    Interesting thread. I was thinking on placing some bids on primers on gunbroker. I dont see anything additional on shipping info. Some mention hazard fee but many dont.
     
    Interesting thread. I was thinking on placing some bids on primers on gunbroker. I dont see anything additional on shipping info. Some mention hazard fee but many dont.
    most are shipping illegally - more of a problem for them than you
     
    No. Unless you have been certified with the carrier via a class of some sort, you may not ship hazardous materials or dangerous goods. And the FAA is very serious about this stuff, they will prosecute for an infraction.

    However, loaded ammunition cartridges fall under the ORM-D exception and can be shipped like a normal package, it just needs an "ORM-D, cartridges, small arms" stick on the side. Also, ground only in most cases.

    source: I'm a certified HazMat shipper with UPS.
     
    If you need to ship a LOT, you can ship by truck. Some trucking companies are certified hazmat shippers, so they can ship it. But the last time I looked, you were looking at a minimum charge of some $400. Only practical for a LOT (figuring that you can ship 50 pounds for about $35 - $40 total cost via UPS).
     
    Know someone who tried to take black powder substitute home in a carry-on bag. We send him a pecan pie at Thanksgiving ;)
    I was being sarcastic above when I said just take it to UPS and see what happens....really I was.
     
    Shoot4fun, your funny.
    Seanh, not selling, I'm trying to buy either a 1 or 8 pound keg of retumbo. Any one lives in Las Vegas or nearby, I'd trade some H1000 or buy it outright? Sheesh this is no fun anymore
    Know someone who tried to take black powder substitute home in a carry-on bag. We send him a pecan pie at Thanksgiving ;)
    I was being sarcastic above when I said just take it to UPS and see what happens....really I was.
     
    Retumbo is one of those powders you run out of quickly. I get about 85 rounds per pound. Patience is the key, as all the components will start to show up again sooner than later.
     
    i scored some Varget (8lb jug) while i was in chicago for work. i spent hours trying to work up a shipping deal...no dice as others have said on here. it's a 1.5hr flight for me home, but i ended up driving rental home....14.5hrs!
     
    No. Unless you have been certified with the carrier via a class of some sort, you may not ship hazardous materials or dangerous goods. And the FAA is very serious about this stuff, they will prosecute for an infraction.

    However, loaded ammunition cartridges fall under the ORM-D exception and can be shipped like a normal package, it just needs an "ORM-D, cartridges, small arms" stick on the side. Also, ground only in most cases.

    source: I'm a certified HazMat shipper with UPS.

    This is your answer. Don't try it...period. I understand trying to find some powder, but unless they are a certified haz-mat shipper, it would be illegal. With a haz-mat shipping cert, it is still rather expensive, which is why many try to buy in bulk. Keep an eye on powder valley and widners, and buy 24lbs and make it worth your while.
     
    No. Unless you have been certified with the carrier via a class of some sort, you may not ship hazardous materials or dangerous goods. And the FAA is very serious about this stuff, they will prosecute for an infraction.

    However, loaded ammunition cartridges fall under the ORM-D exception and can be shipped like a normal package, it just needs an "ORM-D, cartridges, small arms" stick on the side. Also, ground only in most cases.

    source: I'm a certified HazMat shipper with UPS.

    Hi Aurora,
    Thanks for this info. Just curious, what is the reason for certification? Is their special packaging training needed? Documentation? Or is this another way for the government to make money? Sounds like its a bs cert because ammo can be shipped without this hazmat cert.

    Not that I will act upon an answer either way here but, can a receiver of shipped primers be held responsible as well?
     
    Hi Aurora,
    Thanks for this info. Just curious, what is the reason for certification? Is their special packaging training needed? Documentation? Or is this another way for the government to make money? Sounds like its a bs cert because ammo can be shipped without this hazmat cert.

    Not that I will act upon an answer either way here but, can a receiver of shipped primers be held responsible as well?

    Loaded ammunition cartridges can be shipped under the ORM-D exception; it does not require a cert. Lots of stuff falls under ORM-D, like perfume, solder, lighters, etc. It's stuff that's not that dangerous, but need to be cared for appropriately.

    The reason for certifications started a very long time ago with, believe it or not, wet cotton. It was the very first regulated material. Since they've added a lot of stuff. I'd say the main reasoning behind regulated materials is safety and segregation of materials. For example, you don't want potassium next to water in a drum. Potassium is flammable when wet, so don't put them next to each other. Dry Ice releases carbon dioxide, so if it's in the cargo hold of a passenger airliner, and there also happens to be a dog in cargo, then the pilots need to know to pump extra oxygen into the hold.

    Companies want you to have certs with them because of how their insurance works. That's really the best answer I can give. DOT/FAA say you need some type of training (which is outlined, mostly.) UPS/FedEx say you must take their class before shipping HazMat. Also, UPS/FedEx have variations from the law. Like UPS will not carry oxidizers on aircraft. They are allowed to carry that stuff, but after that fire a while back, they decided not to.

    Yes, there is special packaging for just about everything. Mainly fiberboard (cardboard) boxes have to with stand certain amount of stress. Then, the more dangerous the material, the stronger the box has to be. The law spells out exactly what is allowed for each dangerous good. However, or ORM-D shipments, you just need a sturdy box. Example, I got a spam can of 7.62x54R from AIM Surplus and all my box had was the ORM-D sticker.

    Shipping papers are required to stay with package, and a manifest of dangerous good is required to go to the pilot/driver. So, if anything happens, the driver knows not to jack with it. Also, there is a description of what's in the box, and a number to call if something happens. The people on that phone number can tell the first responders how to deal with the situation properly and suggest further cleanup measures.

    Is it BS? Maybe, but I don't think so. The .gov doesn't make any money off of it as far as I can tell (except for fines.) The HazMat fee is paid to the carrier because of the extra work and handling involved with shipping dangerous goods. The reason this stuff came about was because people died via carelessness in the shipping chain.

    Can you receive a bad shipment? I wouldn't try it. There is a clause in the law saying if you knowingly partake in the action, then you can actually serve jail time. It may only apply to the person who offered the commodities for shipping, but I would strongly advise against buying something that you know will break the law.
     
    Loaded ammunition cartridges can be shipped under the ORM-D exception; it does not require a cert. Lots of stuff falls under ORM-D, like perfume, solder, lighters, etc. It's stuff that's not that dangerous, but need to be cared for appropriately.

    The reason for certifications started a very long time ago with, believe it or not, wet cotton. It was the very first regulated material. Since they've added a lot of stuff. I'd say the main reasoning behind regulated materials is safety and segregation of materials. For example, you don't want potassium next to water in a drum. Potassium is flammable when wet, so don't put them next to each other. Dry Ice releases carbon dioxide, so if it's in the cargo hold of a passenger airliner, and there also happens to be a dog in cargo, then the pilots need to know to pump extra oxygen into the hold.

    Companies want you to have certs with them because of how their insurance works. That's really the best answer I can give. DOT/FAA say you need some type of training (which is outlined, mostly.) UPS/FedEx say you must take their class before shipping HazMat. Also, UPS/FedEx have variations from the law. Like UPS will not carry oxidizers on aircraft. They are allowed to carry that stuff, but after that fire a while back, they decided not to.

    Yes, there is special packaging for just about everything. Mainly fiberboard (cardboard) boxes have to with stand certain amount of stress. Then, the more dangerous the material, the stronger the box has to be. The law spells out exactly what is allowed for each dangerous good. However, or ORM-D shipments, you just need a sturdy box. Example, I got a spam can of 7.62x54R from AIM Surplus and all my box had was the ORM-D sticker.

    Shipping papers are required to stay with package, and a manifest of dangerous good is required to go to the pilot/driver. So, if anything happens, the driver knows not to jack with it. Also, there is a description of what's in the box, and a number to call if something happens. The people on that phone number can tell the first responders how to deal with the situation properly and suggest further cleanup measures.

    Is it BS? Maybe, but I don't think so. The .gov doesn't make any money off of it as far as I can tell (except for fines.) The HazMat fee is paid to the carrier because of the extra work and handling involved with shipping dangerous goods. The reason this stuff came about was because people died via carelessness in the shipping chain.

    Can you receive a bad shipment? I wouldn't try it. There is a clause in the law saying if you knowingly partake in the action, then you can actually serve jail time. It may only apply to the person who offered the commodities for shipping, but I would strongly advise against buying something that you know will break the law.

    Thanks again for the info. I never really thought about the ORM labels before. When I bought tannerite (oxidizer), I didnt notice any hazmat charge or special labeling/packaging.
     
    The requirements are strict and cover many items. I just went thru a course in the Air Force for this very thing. Even for Air Force cargo we have to abide by the same rules even tho our cargo will never be in the regular shipping channels, it's all governed by the same folks and even the military is not exempt. The class was 3 days long, if memory serves me right, and covers all the seperation of different materials and inside and outside container requirments and stickers needed, also on the red striped label (haz dex) forms. I don't recall if there were legal ramifications to recieving parties, but shippers willfully and knowingly violating protocol...penalties were 10yrs.
     
    I shipped some ammo once. Had to go to the UPS warehouse to get it done. You would have thought I was shipping plutonium.
    Wonder how these people on GB are shipping their primers they are selling?