thinking about cutting down my .308 from 26" to 22"at this length does anyone know if it will still hit targets up to 1000k yards?
- Thread starter markd0tcom
- Start date
Re: short barrel reaching 1000k
I saw this article ...not sure how accurate ... at least its a start.
http://www.sniperschool.com/barrel-length-revisited
I have cut my barrel down to 20 inches in anticipating my AWC suppressor which will add an additional 8 inches and I did not want to have a 32 inch pipe that I would have to navigate.
Hope that helps.
I saw this article ...not sure how accurate ... at least its a start.
http://www.sniperschool.com/barrel-length-revisited
I have cut my barrel down to 20 inches in anticipating my AWC suppressor which will add an additional 8 inches and I did not want to have a 32 inch pipe that I would have to navigate.
Hope that helps.
Re: short barrel reaching 1000k
more rifle info please
more rifle info please
Re: short barrel reaching 1000k
If we do it with a 15" you should be fine with a 22". I don't think accuracy is barrel length dependent, you'll lose maybe 150 to 200 fps but a few extra clicks and be right back in the hunt again.
Topstrap
If we do it with a 15" you should be fine with a 22". I don't think accuracy is barrel length dependent, you'll lose maybe 150 to 200 fps but a few extra clicks and be right back in the hunt again.
Topstrap
Re: short barrel reaching 1000k
Of course the normal disclaimers apply... Bullet weight, MV, Atmospheric conditions.... In my experience(which is very small compaired to the other members of SH).308 get a bit squirly at 1000yds. Its not that the bullet can go that far ... its the wind its all about the wind at that range (not to discount basic marksmanship skills etc...)
Of course the normal disclaimers apply... Bullet weight, MV, Atmospheric conditions.... In my experience(which is very small compaired to the other members of SH).308 get a bit squirly at 1000yds. Its not that the bullet can go that far ... its the wind its all about the wind at that range (not to discount basic marksmanship skills etc...)
Re: short barrel reaching 1000k
okay, that makes me feel a little better. I just needed some reassurance.
okay, that makes me feel a little better. I just needed some reassurance.
Re: short barrel reaching 1000k
Last fall the ASC match was shot with 20" FN SPR A5 rifles with Cor-Bon match 175 ammo going 2520 at the muzzle. Not to say it wasn't challenging, but we were able to make 1st round hits out past 1000 pretty consistently. Those FN rifles shot amazingly well and the ammo was spot on. The Internet didn't catch on fire afterwards either so I say you'll be more than fine with a 22" or even a 20" tube.
Last fall the ASC match was shot with 20" FN SPR A5 rifles with Cor-Bon match 175 ammo going 2520 at the muzzle. Not to say it wasn't challenging, but we were able to make 1st round hits out past 1000 pretty consistently. Those FN rifles shot amazingly well and the ammo was spot on. The Internet didn't catch on fire afterwards either so I say you'll be more than fine with a 22" or even a 20" tube.
Re: short barrel reaching 1000k
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lizzardking308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Last fall the ASC match was shot with 20" FN SPR A5 rifles with Cor-Bon match 175 ammo going 2520 at the muzzle. Not to say it wasn't challenging, but we were able to make 1st round hits out past 1000 pretty consistently. Those FN rifles shot amazingly well and the ammo was spot on. The Internet didn't catch on fire afterwards either so I say you'll be more than fine with a 22" or even a 20" tube. </div></div>
oh wow, that's amazing. i feel a lot better now. thanks for this info.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lizzardking308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Last fall the ASC match was shot with 20" FN SPR A5 rifles with Cor-Bon match 175 ammo going 2520 at the muzzle. Not to say it wasn't challenging, but we were able to make 1st round hits out past 1000 pretty consistently. Those FN rifles shot amazingly well and the ammo was spot on. The Internet didn't catch on fire afterwards either so I say you'll be more than fine with a 22" or even a 20" tube. </div></div>
oh wow, that's amazing. i feel a lot better now. thanks for this info.
Re: short barrel reaching 1000k
Today, I personally shot my 18.5 inch barreled .308, at -400 ft density altitude, to 975 yards.
My load:
46.2 grains Varget
155 Scenar
Lapua case
CCI BR2
2800 ft/sec
9.4 mils to 975 yards (Swaro rangefinder.) Should have still been traveling ~1250 fps.
As an aside- I was shooting back in December with my friends brother. He was shooting a McCree built .308 with an 18.5 inch barrel, using 168 Gold Medal Match. He was making hits at 1075 yards, after maxing out his scope and holding a ton over. The bullets were most likely tumbling at that point, but still making consistent hits.
My synopsis- if you are shooting 1000 yards all the time, you might want to consider a longer barrel, or even a more capable caliber. However, a short barreled .308 can still get the job done at 1000.
Today, I personally shot my 18.5 inch barreled .308, at -400 ft density altitude, to 975 yards.
My load:
46.2 grains Varget
155 Scenar
Lapua case
CCI BR2
2800 ft/sec
9.4 mils to 975 yards (Swaro rangefinder.) Should have still been traveling ~1250 fps.
As an aside- I was shooting back in December with my friends brother. He was shooting a McCree built .308 with an 18.5 inch barrel, using 168 Gold Medal Match. He was making hits at 1075 yards, after maxing out his scope and holding a ton over. The bullets were most likely tumbling at that point, but still making consistent hits.
My synopsis- if you are shooting 1000 yards all the time, you might want to consider a longer barrel, or even a more capable caliber. However, a short barreled .308 can still get the job done at 1000.
Re: short barrel reaching 1000k
what would be a more compatible caliber?( to keep in mind during my next build) i really want to keep the barrel short because i'm only 5'3, and i really dont wan't a rifle almost as tall/long as me.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bm11</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Today, I personally shot my 18.5 inch barreled .308, at -400 ft density altitude, to 975 yards.
My load:
46.2 grains Varget
155 Scenar
Lapua case
CCI BR2
2800 ft/sec
9.4 mils to 975 yards (Swaro rangefinder.) Should have still been traveling ~1250 fps.
As an aside- I was shooting back in December with my friends brother. He was shooting a McCree built .308 with an 18.5 inch barrel, using 168 Gold Medal Match. He was making hits at 1075 yards, after maxing out his scope and holding a ton over. The bullets were most likely tumbling at that point, but still making consistent hits.
My synopsis- if you are shooting 1000 yards all the time, you might want to consider a longer barrel, or even a more capable caliber. However, a short barreled .308 can still get the job done at 1000.</div></div>
what would be a more compatible caliber?( to keep in mind during my next build) i really want to keep the barrel short because i'm only 5'3, and i really dont wan't a rifle almost as tall/long as me.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bm11</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Today, I personally shot my 18.5 inch barreled .308, at -400 ft density altitude, to 975 yards.
My load:
46.2 grains Varget
155 Scenar
Lapua case
CCI BR2
2800 ft/sec
9.4 mils to 975 yards (Swaro rangefinder.) Should have still been traveling ~1250 fps.
As an aside- I was shooting back in December with my friends brother. He was shooting a McCree built .308 with an 18.5 inch barrel, using 168 Gold Medal Match. He was making hits at 1075 yards, after maxing out his scope and holding a ton over. The bullets were most likely tumbling at that point, but still making consistent hits.
My synopsis- if you are shooting 1000 yards all the time, you might want to consider a longer barrel, or even a more capable caliber. However, a short barreled .308 can still get the job done at 1000.</div></div>
Re: short barrel reaching 1000k
The shorter the barrel the slower the bullet.
The slower the bullet, the more the wind will push it.
The slower the bullet, the more you will have to crank up your elev.
If you are shooting bigger than 2 MOA targets with no wind you should be "o.k.".
If you are shooting something smaller and it's windy, you're just making it harder on yourself. A 24" to 26" medium palma barrel is not a disadvantage to shoot in a tactical match over a 20" barrel.
Past 600 yrds a .260 Rem. will shoot flatter and with less wind correction than a .308. The downside is a shorter barrel life.
The shorter the barrel the slower the bullet.
The slower the bullet, the more the wind will push it.
The slower the bullet, the more you will have to crank up your elev.
If you are shooting bigger than 2 MOA targets with no wind you should be "o.k.".
If you are shooting something smaller and it's windy, you're just making it harder on yourself. A 24" to 26" medium palma barrel is not a disadvantage to shoot in a tactical match over a 20" barrel.
Past 600 yrds a .260 Rem. will shoot flatter and with less wind correction than a .308. The downside is a shorter barrel life.
Re: short barrel reaching 1000k
More capable caliber...300WM, 300RUM, 338LM 338RUM, there are quite a few more capable cailbers, but you have to pay for it
More capable caliber...300WM, 300RUM, 338LM 338RUM, there are quite a few more capable cailbers, but you have to pay for it
Re: short barrel reaching 1000k
really?...there has been countless threads on the hide where guys are shooting past 1000yards with 18" and 16" 308s...and somebody is really asking if its possible with a 22"?
the gun world lives on myth....some of you guys need to actually do some research before being allowed to think...
bench
really?...there has been countless threads on the hide where guys are shooting past 1000yards with 18" and 16" 308s...and somebody is really asking if its possible with a 22"?
the gun world lives on myth....some of you guys need to actually do some research before being allowed to think...
bench
Re: short barrel reaching 1000k
okay, so big EXPENSIVE rounds. well i have surgeon 591 short action with a .308 bolt face, any caliber that would work better without having to buy a long action? 6.5 calibers?
okay, so big EXPENSIVE rounds. well i have surgeon 591 short action with a .308 bolt face, any caliber that would work better without having to buy a long action? 6.5 calibers?
Re: short barrel reaching 1000k
geez someone is angry... sorry i'll use the search feature next time.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: benchmstr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">really?...there has been countless threads on the hide where guys are shooting past 1000yards with 18" and 16" 308s...and somebody is really asking if its possible with a 22"?
the gun world lives on myth....some of you guys need to actually do some research before being allowed to think...
bench</div></div>
geez someone is angry... sorry i'll use the search feature next time.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: benchmstr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">really?...there has been countless threads on the hide where guys are shooting past 1000yards with 18" and 16" 308s...and somebody is really asking if its possible with a 22"?
the gun world lives on myth....some of you guys need to actually do some research before being allowed to think...
bench</div></div>
Re: short barrel reaching 1000k
I'm new to long distance and haven't had the opportunity to stretch out to 1000 yards, but when I built my rifle, I certainly didn't want to exclude the ability to get out to 1000 yards.
I'm running a 22" Krieger barrel with a chamber that was cut for 168gr SMKs. My barrel has a really tight throat and I suspect (based on the velocity that I was getting with my stock 20" barrel0 that I'm getting higher velocities partly due to my chamber.
Still, I'm getting better than 2600fps 15' from the muzzle with 43gr of RL 15 and a 175gr SMK. According to the ballistic calculator that I'm using, it should still be supersonic at 1000 yards. If/when I get to that point, I'll see, but I still have some room left to go up on the powder. I've been as high as 44gr with no signs of pressure.
I'm new to long distance and haven't had the opportunity to stretch out to 1000 yards, but when I built my rifle, I certainly didn't want to exclude the ability to get out to 1000 yards.
I'm running a 22" Krieger barrel with a chamber that was cut for 168gr SMKs. My barrel has a really tight throat and I suspect (based on the velocity that I was getting with my stock 20" barrel0 that I'm getting higher velocities partly due to my chamber.
Still, I'm getting better than 2600fps 15' from the muzzle with 43gr of RL 15 and a 175gr SMK. According to the ballistic calculator that I'm using, it should still be supersonic at 1000 yards. If/when I get to that point, I'll see, but I still have some room left to go up on the powder. I've been as high as 44gr with no signs of pressure.
Re: short barrel reaching 1000k
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: markd0tcom</div><div class="ubbcode-body">what would be a more compatible caliber?( to keep in mind during my next build) i really want to keep the barrel short because i'm only 5'3, and i really dont wan't a rifle almost as tall/long as me.
</div></div>A .260 is superior in almost every aspect. But it isn't ideal in a 20" barreled application, though still better than a 20" .308.
But- how often are you shooting 1000 yards? Like I implied in my reply- I prefer the handiness of a short barrel, and my 18.5 inch barrel does just fine. It shooting right with my friends 26" TRG today. But there was not much wind.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: markd0tcom</div><div class="ubbcode-body">what would be a more compatible caliber?( to keep in mind during my next build) i really want to keep the barrel short because i'm only 5'3, and i really dont wan't a rifle almost as tall/long as me.
</div></div>A .260 is superior in almost every aspect. But it isn't ideal in a 20" barreled application, though still better than a 20" .308.
But- how often are you shooting 1000 yards? Like I implied in my reply- I prefer the handiness of a short barrel, and my 18.5 inch barrel does just fine. It shooting right with my friends 26" TRG today. But there was not much wind.
Re: short barrel reaching 1000k
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: markd0tcom</div><div class="ubbcode-body">geez someone is angry... sorry i'll use the search feature next time. <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: benchmstr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">really?...there has been countless threads on the hide where guys are shooting past 1000yards with 18" and 16" 308s...and somebody is really asking if its possible with a 22"?</div></div></div></div>
People here get tired of answering the same questions over and over. There are resources available... If you don't know about it, use this:
http://www.google.com/cse/home?cx=010955838166721108978%3Aqcbx5qqy10o&hl=en
It's an improved Sniper's Hide search engine.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: markd0tcom</div><div class="ubbcode-body">okay, so big EXPENSIVE rounds. well i have surgeon 591 short action with a .308 bolt face, any caliber that would work better without having to buy a long action? 6.5 calibers? </div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Robert Hode</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Past 600 yrds a .260 Rem. will shoot flatter and with less wind correction than a .308.</div></div>
They get even grumpier when you don't notice answers to your questions in your own thread.
John
Edit: for what it's worth, MontanaMarine has a 20.5" barrel on his .308 and I've watched him shoot with decent results over a mile (he is at 4000' ASL)
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: markd0tcom</div><div class="ubbcode-body">geez someone is angry... sorry i'll use the search feature next time. <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: benchmstr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">really?...there has been countless threads on the hide where guys are shooting past 1000yards with 18" and 16" 308s...and somebody is really asking if its possible with a 22"?</div></div></div></div>
People here get tired of answering the same questions over and over. There are resources available... If you don't know about it, use this:
http://www.google.com/cse/home?cx=010955838166721108978%3Aqcbx5qqy10o&hl=en
It's an improved Sniper's Hide search engine.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: markd0tcom</div><div class="ubbcode-body">okay, so big EXPENSIVE rounds. well i have surgeon 591 short action with a .308 bolt face, any caliber that would work better without having to buy a long action? 6.5 calibers? </div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Robert Hode</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Past 600 yrds a .260 Rem. will shoot flatter and with less wind correction than a .308.</div></div>
They get even grumpier when you don't notice answers to your questions in your own thread.
John
Edit: for what it's worth, MontanaMarine has a 20.5" barrel on his .308 and I've watched him shoot with decent results over a mile (he is at 4000' ASL)
Re: short barrel reaching 1000k
I also think you have to be realistic...how often do you REALLY think you are going to be banging steel at 1000 yards?
I know it sounds "cool" and all, and I think most guys use the 1000 yard as a "marker" of sorts. Fact is, 1000 yards is a LOOOOOOONNNNGGGGG shot, and no disrespect meant here, but from sounding of your posts, it doesnt sound like you are going to be shooting at 1000 yards anytime soon.
I maybe totally wrong in my assumption, but just so you dont feel bad, or feel like Im singling you out, Ill give you this example:
I, myself, came on this site a year ago, give or take, and was wanting a rifle to shoot at 1000 yards...came on here, asked silly questions, and made even sillier replies, went and bought my rifle, and have YET to reach out to 1000 yards. In fact, havent made it to 500 yet. In fact, havent even made it 400 yet. yep, Ive shot paper at 200, and bang some steel at 300, but that's it. Im working my way up, but I think its unrealistic to think that just anyone can shoot (and actually hit something that they are aiming at) out to 1000 yards.
All of that being said, and you are actually able to, then, my apologies....
I also think you have to be realistic...how often do you REALLY think you are going to be banging steel at 1000 yards?
I know it sounds "cool" and all, and I think most guys use the 1000 yard as a "marker" of sorts. Fact is, 1000 yards is a LOOOOOOONNNNGGGGG shot, and no disrespect meant here, but from sounding of your posts, it doesnt sound like you are going to be shooting at 1000 yards anytime soon.
I maybe totally wrong in my assumption, but just so you dont feel bad, or feel like Im singling you out, Ill give you this example:
I, myself, came on this site a year ago, give or take, and was wanting a rifle to shoot at 1000 yards...came on here, asked silly questions, and made even sillier replies, went and bought my rifle, and have YET to reach out to 1000 yards. In fact, havent made it to 500 yet. In fact, havent even made it 400 yet. yep, Ive shot paper at 200, and bang some steel at 300, but that's it. Im working my way up, but I think its unrealistic to think that just anyone can shoot (and actually hit something that they are aiming at) out to 1000 yards.
All of that being said, and you are actually able to, then, my apologies....
Re: short barrel reaching 1000k
no apologies needed, and yes, i do see 1000 yard as marker/goal, but i honestly dont think i'll be hitting 1000 yard targets for awhile for multiple reason, one, the range i go to the farthest targets is 600 yards, and second i'm obviously new to this sport. However, i hopefully would want to hit targets up to 1000 yards, and i dont wan't me cutting my barrel down to 22" restrict me from reaching that 1000 yard goal.
no apologies needed, and yes, i do see 1000 yard as marker/goal, but i honestly dont think i'll be hitting 1000 yard targets for awhile for multiple reason, one, the range i go to the farthest targets is 600 yards, and second i'm obviously new to this sport. However, i hopefully would want to hit targets up to 1000 yards, and i dont wan't me cutting my barrel down to 22" restrict me from reaching that 1000 yard goal.
Re: short barrel reaching 1000k
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rrflyer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It won't reach.
1000k yards is something like 520 miles. Your best bet is air support.
</div></div>
Great response...
I chuckle whenever I see/hear someone using metrics they have no understanding of.
"1000k"...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rrflyer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It won't reach.
1000k yards is something like 520 miles. Your best bet is air support.
</div></div>
Great response...
I chuckle whenever I see/hear someone using metrics they have no understanding of.
"1000k"...
Re: short barrel reaching 1000k
I think what some of the smart azzes are saying,(me included), is that it is not the rifle that makes the shot, it is you. You will start to have speed issues at some point, but at 22", you should be fine. +1 on the 1000k yds not working,
I think what some of the smart azzes are saying,(me included), is that it is not the rifle that makes the shot, it is you. You will start to have speed issues at some point, but at 22", you should be fine. +1 on the 1000k yds not working,
Re: short barrel reaching 1000k
When we had the XM3s, we were able to hit targets effectively at 1000 meters. There was a noticeable difference in elevation adjustments going from the M40's 25" bbl to the XM3s 18" bbl.
When we had the XM3s, we were able to hit targets effectively at 1000 meters. There was a noticeable difference in elevation adjustments going from the M40's 25" bbl to the XM3s 18" bbl.
Re: short barrel reaching 1000k
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: markd0tcom</div><div class="ubbcode-body">no apologies needed, and yes, i do see 1000 yard as marker/goal, but i honestly dont think i'll be hitting 1000 yard targets for awhile for multiple reason, one, the range i go to the farthest targets is 600 yards, and second i'm obviously new to this sport. However, i hopefully would want to hit targets up to 1000 yards, and i dont wan't me cutting my barrel down to 22" restrict me from reaching that 1000 yard goal. </div></div>
Bottom line is having a 22" rifle in 308 is not going to keep you from shooting at 1000 yards in 308. Not even close.
Here is the question. Are you running a 24" now or building from scratch? I mean if you are starting off with a 24" barrel, try it out for a while and see if it really sucks for you BEFORE you shop something off. As opposed to assuming it sucks.
Regards,
Greyson
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: markd0tcom</div><div class="ubbcode-body">no apologies needed, and yes, i do see 1000 yard as marker/goal, but i honestly dont think i'll be hitting 1000 yard targets for awhile for multiple reason, one, the range i go to the farthest targets is 600 yards, and second i'm obviously new to this sport. However, i hopefully would want to hit targets up to 1000 yards, and i dont wan't me cutting my barrel down to 22" restrict me from reaching that 1000 yard goal. </div></div>
Bottom line is having a 22" rifle in 308 is not going to keep you from shooting at 1000 yards in 308. Not even close.
Here is the question. Are you running a 24" now or building from scratch? I mean if you are starting off with a 24" barrel, try it out for a while and see if it really sucks for you BEFORE you shop something off. As opposed to assuming it sucks.
Regards,
Greyson
Re: short barrel reaching 1000k
I can't believe it took the 'Hide members half this thread to rip on the guy for putting "1000k" and then it didn't re-surface for the next several threads! What is wrong with you guys? Where did the flames go?
On the topic at hand though, look into 7mm(.284) chamberings. That's where the money is at for you my friend.
-Dylan
I can't believe it took the 'Hide members half this thread to rip on the guy for putting "1000k" and then it didn't re-surface for the next several threads! What is wrong with you guys? Where did the flames go?
On the topic at hand though, look into 7mm(.284) chamberings. That's where the money is at for you my friend.
-Dylan
Re: short barrel reaching 1000k
that will do fine, many cut 26"s down to 20 and dpo fine with the right loads, just takes time to experiment and see what your particular bbl likes best for the new lenght
that will do fine, many cut 26"s down to 20 and dpo fine with the right loads, just takes time to experiment and see what your particular bbl likes best for the new lenght
Re: short barrel reaching 1000k
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: markd0tcom</div><div class="ubbcode-body">what would be a more compatible caliber?( to keep in mind during my next build) i really want to keep the barrel short because i'm only 5'3, and i really dont wan't a rifle almost as tall/long as me. </div></div>
If you plan to reload there is an advantage to longer barrels. Using slower powders and taking advantage of the longer barrel will add velocity. If your rifle is not built yet you may want to do some more research. I'm only 5'8 and carried a GAP 28 1/2 in. length w/ a JP brake for years. and dont tell these guys, it was only a 6mm.
+1 for the .284/7mm's & ck the 6mmbr.com's 7mm pages, will only take 10 min to read.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: markd0tcom</div><div class="ubbcode-body">what would be a more compatible caliber?( to keep in mind during my next build) i really want to keep the barrel short because i'm only 5'3, and i really dont wan't a rifle almost as tall/long as me. </div></div>
If you plan to reload there is an advantage to longer barrels. Using slower powders and taking advantage of the longer barrel will add velocity. If your rifle is not built yet you may want to do some more research. I'm only 5'8 and carried a GAP 28 1/2 in. length w/ a JP brake for years. and dont tell these guys, it was only a 6mm.
+1 for the .284/7mm's & ck the 6mmbr.com's 7mm pages, will only take 10 min to read.
Re: short barrel reaching 1000k
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KSwift</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rrflyer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It won't reach.
1000k yards is something like 520 miles. Your best bet is air support.
</div></div>
Great response...
I chuckle whenever I see/hear someone using metrics they have no understanding of.
"1000k"... </div></div>I get 568.2 miles, assuming the k stands for 1000.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KSwift</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rrflyer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It won't reach.
1000k yards is something like 520 miles. Your best bet is air support.
</div></div>
Great response...
I chuckle whenever I see/hear someone using metrics they have no understanding of.
"1000k"... </div></div>I get 568.2 miles, assuming the k stands for 1000.
Re: short barrel reaching 1000k
So I have been wondering this since I want to build an 18.5"-20" rifle. So is it a matter of speed really? I try to shoot my 175 SMK's at 2650fps and if I can get that speed out of a short barrel then all else being equal there should be no noticeable difference?
Also, I think barrel twist and barrel length play a big factor in stabilizing the bullet? Shorter less time to add more spin?
And maybe faster burning powder equals more pressure for the same velocity?
So I have been wondering this since I want to build an 18.5"-20" rifle. So is it a matter of speed really? I try to shoot my 175 SMK's at 2650fps and if I can get that speed out of a short barrel then all else being equal there should be no noticeable difference?
Also, I think barrel twist and barrel length play a big factor in stabilizing the bullet? Shorter less time to add more spin?
And maybe faster burning powder equals more pressure for the same velocity?
Re: short barrel reaching 1000k
If i had a 18" bolt rifle for LR i would want to use a caliber that has a high BC. That way you don't have to be extremely worried from a velocity standpoint. I would personally opt for a 6.5x47L or .260. Just saw the thread on the GAP Gladius and it has me wanting one down the road in 6.5x47L. Also a 18" profiled bolt gun is a much more practical length when paired with a suppressor seems like a adequate size if one needed a mobile but accurate weapon capable of 1000yd hit.
If i had a 18" bolt rifle for LR i would want to use a caliber that has a high BC. That way you don't have to be extremely worried from a velocity standpoint. I would personally opt for a 6.5x47L or .260. Just saw the thread on the GAP Gladius and it has me wanting one down the road in 6.5x47L. Also a 18" profiled bolt gun is a much more practical length when paired with a suppressor seems like a adequate size if one needed a mobile but accurate weapon capable of 1000yd hit.
Re: short barrel reaching 1000k
There is a good article from ironbrigadearmory.com written about the sucess of the XM-3. Rocky Chandler wrote a good article about having a 18" barrel and making hits at distance. Please check out this article.
There is a good article from ironbrigadearmory.com written about the sucess of the XM-3. Rocky Chandler wrote a good article about having a 18" barrel and making hits at distance. Please check out this article.
Re: short barrel reaching 1000k
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Iggy.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So I have been wondering this since I want to build an 18.5"-20" rifle. So is it a matter of speed really? I try to shoot my 175 SMK's at 2650fps and if I can get that speed out of a short barrel then all else being equal there should be no noticeable difference?
Also, I think barrel twist and barrel length play a big factor in stabilizing the bullet? Shorter less time to add more spin?
And maybe faster burning powder equals more pressure for the same velocity? </div></div>
I think you are on the right track, and all else being equal, shorter barrels are stiffer as well. As far as powder burn goes, I've seen recipes where velocity didn't change at all in a ladder test over a span of .8 grains. That means that a significant portion of your powder is burning outside of the barrel. If you find that,speed up the powder a notch or two. But if you do that make sure to start working up your loads from the bottom to avoid spikes in pressure.
As far as spin goes, I don't think that the bullet "gains" spin as it travels unless you have a gain twist rifling barrel (I could be wrong on this). That being said I have shortened a 32 winchester special, and found it to have larger than expected groups at 25 yards, but be very good at 100 as the bullet stabilized.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Iggy.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So I have been wondering this since I want to build an 18.5"-20" rifle. So is it a matter of speed really? I try to shoot my 175 SMK's at 2650fps and if I can get that speed out of a short barrel then all else being equal there should be no noticeable difference?
Also, I think barrel twist and barrel length play a big factor in stabilizing the bullet? Shorter less time to add more spin?
And maybe faster burning powder equals more pressure for the same velocity? </div></div>
I think you are on the right track, and all else being equal, shorter barrels are stiffer as well. As far as powder burn goes, I've seen recipes where velocity didn't change at all in a ladder test over a span of .8 grains. That means that a significant portion of your powder is burning outside of the barrel. If you find that,speed up the powder a notch or two. But if you do that make sure to start working up your loads from the bottom to avoid spikes in pressure.
As far as spin goes, I don't think that the bullet "gains" spin as it travels unless you have a gain twist rifling barrel (I could be wrong on this). That being said I have shortened a 32 winchester special, and found it to have larger than expected groups at 25 yards, but be very good at 100 as the bullet stabilized.
Re: short barrel reaching 1000k
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rrflyer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It won't reach.
1000k yards is something like 520 miles. Your best bet is air support.
However I would like to see some pics of your range!</div></div>
Nah, clearly the best option is a Tomahawk.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rrflyer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It won't reach.
1000k yards is something like 520 miles. Your best bet is air support.
However I would like to see some pics of your range!</div></div>
Nah, clearly the best option is a Tomahawk.
Re: short barrel reaching 1000k
My synopsis- if you are shooting 1000 yards all the time, you might want to consider a longer barrel, or even a more capable caliber. However, a short barreled .308 can still get the job done at 1000. [/quote]
+1
My synopsis- if you are shooting 1000 yards all the time, you might want to consider a longer barrel, or even a more capable caliber. However, a short barreled .308 can still get the job done at 1000. [/quote]
+1
Re: short barrel reaching 1000k
That's what I've been wondering. What does "Shooting 1000 yards all the time" mean?
If the velocity is the same from a short barrel and a long barrel then what is the difference?
That's what I've been wondering. What does "Shooting 1000 yards all the time" mean?
If the velocity is the same from a short barrel and a long barrel then what is the difference?
Re: short barrel reaching 1000k
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Iggy.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
If the velocity is the same from a short barrel and a long barrel then what is the difference? </div></div>
Why would it be?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Iggy.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
If the velocity is the same from a short barrel and a long barrel then what is the difference? </div></div>
Why would it be?
Re: short barrel reaching 1000k
Why would what be? I was asking if it was different. What would the difference be in balistics between two different length barrels if the velocity is the same out of both barrels with the same bullet?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jerkface11</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Why would it be?</div></div>
Why would what be? I was asking if it was different. What would the difference be in balistics between two different length barrels if the velocity is the same out of both barrels with the same bullet?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jerkface11</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Why would it be?</div></div>
Re: short barrel reaching 1000k
Why would the velocity be the same from different barrel lengths?
Why would the velocity be the same from different barrel lengths?
Re: short barrel reaching 1000k
There is only so much powder to burn.
There is only so much powder to burn.
Re: short barrel reaching 1000k
So you honestly think a 22" barrel will get the same velocity as a 26"?
So you honestly think a 22" barrel will get the same velocity as a 26"?
Re: short barrel reaching 1000k
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jerkface11</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So you honestly think a 22" barrel will get the same velocity as a 26"? </div></div>I don't, not at all. I think certain 22" barrels will get the same velocity as certain other 26" barrels, but any time you cut a 26" barrel down the velocity will be lower.
I cut my 26" barrel down to 18.5" and lost about 120 fps. Still 1000 yard capable and I feel it was a good compromise, but it is not equal to the performance it was achieving at 26".
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jerkface11</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So you honestly think a 22" barrel will get the same velocity as a 26"? </div></div>I don't, not at all. I think certain 22" barrels will get the same velocity as certain other 26" barrels, but any time you cut a 26" barrel down the velocity will be lower.
I cut my 26" barrel down to 18.5" and lost about 120 fps. Still 1000 yard capable and I feel it was a good compromise, but it is not equal to the performance it was achieving at 26".
Re: short barrel reaching 1000k
I reload my ammo, so a difference of 100fps or less can be fixed with a little powder if needed.
So far with all the reading I've done. A longer barrel is only better than a shorter one if you are shooting a magnum caliber and want to shoot slow burning powder with a heavy bullet.
Like LoneWolfUSMC said, you only have so much powder to burn with a 308. From what I read for a 308 it's about 20. Now, my opinion based on what I've seen is it depends on the barrel. My stock 5R needed 45.5grn of Varget to get 2650fps with 175 SMK's. On my GAP with a Bartlein barrel of the same length I only need 43.5grns to get the same speed.
I reload my ammo, so a difference of 100fps or less can be fixed with a little powder if needed.
So far with all the reading I've done. A longer barrel is only better than a shorter one if you are shooting a magnum caliber and want to shoot slow burning powder with a heavy bullet.
Like LoneWolfUSMC said, you only have so much powder to burn with a 308. From what I read for a 308 it's about 20. Now, my opinion based on what I've seen is it depends on the barrel. My stock 5R needed 45.5grn of Varget to get 2650fps with 175 SMK's. On my GAP with a Bartlein barrel of the same length I only need 43.5grns to get the same speed.
Re: short barrel reaching 1000k
If I'm not mistaken, this poor horse has seen its day...
Velocity Loss vs. Barrel Length:
http://www.tacticaloperations.com/SWATbarrel/
John
If I'm not mistaken, this poor horse has seen its day...
Velocity Loss vs. Barrel Length:
http://www.tacticaloperations.com/SWATbarrel/
John
Re: short barrel reaching 1000k
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Iggy.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I reload my ammo, so a difference of 100fps or less can be fixed with a little powder if needed.
So far with all the reading I've done. A longer barrel is only better than a shorter one if you are shooting a magnum caliber and want to shoot slow burning powder with a heavy bullet.
Like LoneWolfUSMC said, you only have so much powder to burn with a 308. From what I read for a 308 it's about 20. Now, my opinion based on what I've seen is it depends on the barrel. My stock 5R needed 45.5grn of Varget to get 2650fps with 175 SMK's. On my GAP with a Bartlein barrel of the same length I only need 43.5grns to get the same speed. </div></div>
Maybe I'm reading that wrong but did you say that .308 won't see velocity gains with a barrel over 20"?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Iggy.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I reload my ammo, so a difference of 100fps or less can be fixed with a little powder if needed.
So far with all the reading I've done. A longer barrel is only better than a shorter one if you are shooting a magnum caliber and want to shoot slow burning powder with a heavy bullet.
Like LoneWolfUSMC said, you only have so much powder to burn with a 308. From what I read for a 308 it's about 20. Now, my opinion based on what I've seen is it depends on the barrel. My stock 5R needed 45.5grn of Varget to get 2650fps with 175 SMK's. On my GAP with a Bartlein barrel of the same length I only need 43.5grns to get the same speed. </div></div>
Maybe I'm reading that wrong but did you say that .308 won't see velocity gains with a barrel over 20"?
Re: short barrel reaching 1000k
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Peepaw</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I also think you have to be realistic...how often do you REALLY think you are going to be banging steel at 1000 yards?
I know it sounds "cool" and all, and I think most guys use the 1000 yard as a "marker" of sorts. Fact is, 1000 yards is a LOOOOOOONNNNGGGGG shot, and no disrespect meant here, but from sounding of your posts, it doesnt sound like you are going to be shooting at 1000 yards anytime soon.
I maybe totally wrong in my assumption, but just so you dont feel bad, or feel like Im singling you out, Ill give you this example:
I, myself, came on this site a year ago, give or take, and was wanting a rifle to shoot at 1000 yards...came on here, asked silly questions, and made even sillier replies, went and bought my rifle, and have YET to reach out to 1000 yards. In fact, havent made it to 500 yet. In fact, havent even made it 400 yet. yep, Ive shot paper at 200, and bang some steel at 300, but that's it. Im working my way up, but I think its unrealistic to think that just anyone can shoot (and actually hit something that they are aiming at) out to 1000 yards.
All of that being said, and you are actually able to, then, my apologies.... </div></div>
It is actually pretty easy to hit at 1,000 yds when you have good dope and can see your misses to correct. It gets harder to do it reliably, on the first round, or shoot a great group. But just hitting a plate at 1,000 yds isn't some mystical feat.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Peepaw</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I also think you have to be realistic...how often do you REALLY think you are going to be banging steel at 1000 yards?
I know it sounds "cool" and all, and I think most guys use the 1000 yard as a "marker" of sorts. Fact is, 1000 yards is a LOOOOOOONNNNGGGGG shot, and no disrespect meant here, but from sounding of your posts, it doesnt sound like you are going to be shooting at 1000 yards anytime soon.
I maybe totally wrong in my assumption, but just so you dont feel bad, or feel like Im singling you out, Ill give you this example:
I, myself, came on this site a year ago, give or take, and was wanting a rifle to shoot at 1000 yards...came on here, asked silly questions, and made even sillier replies, went and bought my rifle, and have YET to reach out to 1000 yards. In fact, havent made it to 500 yet. In fact, havent even made it 400 yet. yep, Ive shot paper at 200, and bang some steel at 300, but that's it. Im working my way up, but I think its unrealistic to think that just anyone can shoot (and actually hit something that they are aiming at) out to 1000 yards.
All of that being said, and you are actually able to, then, my apologies.... </div></div>
It is actually pretty easy to hit at 1,000 yds when you have good dope and can see your misses to correct. It gets harder to do it reliably, on the first round, or shoot a great group. But just hitting a plate at 1,000 yds isn't some mystical feat.
Re: short barrel reaching 1000k
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jerkface11</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Maybe I'm reading that wrong but did you say that .308 won't see velocity gains with a barrel over 20"?</div></div>
No, I didn't say that. You would have more velocity, but what I am trying to figure out is if you have a short barrel and can get the same velocity as a longer barrel is there a noticeable difference?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jerkface11</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Maybe I'm reading that wrong but did you say that .308 won't see velocity gains with a barrel over 20"?</div></div>
No, I didn't say that. You would have more velocity, but what I am trying to figure out is if you have a short barrel and can get the same velocity as a longer barrel is there a noticeable difference?
Re: short barrel reaching 1000k
If you have a short barrel why would you get the same velocity as a long barrel?
If you have a short barrel why would you get the same velocity as a long barrel?
