Should I buy a MK18 DD

jaik77

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Wondering if there are many downsides to the DD SBR.. I had a Springfield saint pistol in 5.56 and I know the barrel is shorter, but man it really disappointed me as far as accuracy.
 

Mike_in_FL

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    I guess they fill the "door kicker" role if you actually do that. SBR rules being what they are, I'll stick to a 16" for more velocity.
     

    CrabsandFootball

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    DD is known as making one of the most accurate Shorty barrels. They are so good, SOCOM specified them in the URG-I uppers replacing the Block 2 uppers.

    What kind of accuracy are you expecting and what kind of ammo are you using?

    Personally I don't go under 11.5" in a DI gun but if you really want it go for it. If you are cloning makes sense but its a bit dated compared to newer offerings.

    There are alot of good options out there although sourcing now is probally the worst time.
     

    nn8734

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    I have a Mk18 Mod1 with a DD 10.3” and it is very accurate for such a short barrel. I mainly put IMI 55g xm193 through mine.

    I’d say go for it if that’s what you want and can get ahold of one.
     

    jaik77

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    DD is known as making one of the most accurate Shorty barrels. They are so good, SOCOM specified them in the URG-I uppers replacing the Block 2 uppers.

    What kind of accuracy are you expecting and what kind of ammo are you using?

    Personally I don't go under 11.5" in a DI gun but if you really want it go for it. If you are cloning makes sense but its a bit dated compared to newer offerings.

    There are alot of good options out there although sourcing now is probally the worst time.
    What do you mean cloning?
     

    jaik77

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    I have a Mk18 Mod1 with a DD 10.3” and it is very accurate for such a short barrel. I mainly put IMI 55g xm193 through mine.

    I’d say go for it if that’s what you want and can get ahold of one.
    Anything over the 2-3moa I was getting out of my Saint. I just want at least 1-1.5 moa
     

    BigPrince

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    Got one recently and super happy with it. I did not realize it would come with an ambi charging handle and safety already. At the end of the day it is what it is, small truck gun for me. I haven't tried to do anything more than 100yds with it but it performed well.

    One note, some folks take exception to it coming with a polymer dust cover now but honestly, I kinda like it. It's not a wear item and it looks good, almost more modern than the standard steel dust cover.
     

    nn8734

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    @jaik77 I periodically confirm zero (50m) from the prone using only the mag as support using the 3x magnifier, it usually prints 1.5-2moa. At 200m from the same position it usually holds ~ 3 MOA. This is with its SF can on and slow, deliberate shooting prone (not now I usually run it).

    As a Gen purpose carbine, it’s been good to me.
     
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    TMR137

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    So a few things to consider when going short barrel with a 5.56.
    1) barrel length does not affect accuracy it affect velocity
    2) barrel quality and chambering will affect accuracy
    3) DD makes a high quality barrel and firearm
    4) ammo and shooter will make or break your accuracy requirements. Xm193 won’t shoot sub moa in anything
    5) The 10.3” barrel is an outdated barrel length. They do the job but can be very finicky depending on the rest of the firearm it is attached to

    I have run multiple 10.3’s in my career. All have worked, most of the time. I now only use 11.5” +. The rifles just operate better and more reliably, especially when you start suppressing them. But in answering your original question.... a DD sbr would be good purchase And as far as quality goes I would say it’s superior to the Saint. Thus the potential for better accuracy is there
     

    CrabsandFootball

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    Not to be a smart ass but your using shitty ammo with a shitty optic in a shitty gun. The gun is the least of your worries. And that is before you add the shooter into the equation.

    Buying a better gun probally is not going to fix anything until you address the other issues. Buying a quality optic that will grow with you such as the Razor Gen 3 would be a wise investment, as well as better ammo. For factory, its hard to beat Black Hills.
     

    jaik77

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    Not to be a smart ass but your using shitty ammo with a shitty optic in a shitty gun. The gun is the least of your worries. And that is before you add the shooter into the equation.

    Buying a better gun probally is not going to fix anything until you address the other issues. Buying a quality optic that will grow with you such as the Razor Gen 3 would be a wise investment, as well as better ammo. For factory, its hard to beat Black Hills.
    I have top tier other firearms. But the Springfield really disappointed me. If I shoot any of my other Daniel Defense it’s .75 - 1.25 moa at most with plinking ammo. That’s why I posted this, I want to know if that’s what I should expect with a 5.56 pistol
     

    jaik77

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    I have top tier other firearms. But the Springfield really disappointed me. If I shoot any of my other Daniel Defense it’s .75 - 1.25 moa at most with plinking ammo. That’s why I posted this, I want to know if that’s what I should expect with a 5.56 pistol
    Not to be a smart ass but your using shitty ammo with a shitty optic in a shitty gun. The gun is the least of your worries. And that is before you add the shooter into the equation.

    Buying a better gun probally is not going to fix anything until you address the other issues. Buying a quality optic that will grow with you such as the Razor Gen 3 would be a wise investment, as well as better ammo. For factory, its hard to beat Black Hills.
    My original reason for buying a Springfield was because I heard accuracy out of a 5.56 pistol was going to be “bad” not “terrible” and I wanted something to play with. That’s my words, but 4 moa is terrible in my opinion.
     

    TMR137

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    My original reason for buying a Springfield was because I heard accuracy out of a 5.56 pistol was going to be “bad” not “terrible” and I wanted something to play with. That’s my words, but 4 moa is terrible in my opinion.
    Barrel length does not affect accuracy.
     

    TMR137

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    From what I was told the shorter barrel length doesn’t burn all the gases and therefore doesn’t stabilize the bullet like a 16in
    I can almost guarantee that your plinking ammo is fully stable. The Saint has a 1/8 twist, so you are getting a full rotation in the 9.6” barrel that they use. Unless you are seeing keyholes in your target; your bullets are stable. The shorter barrels don’t allow for complete burn of the powder, but that only affect your velocity Not accuracy. Many things come into play with accuracy as said above.
    First let’s look at the firearms itself,
    the Saint does not list any guarantee of accuracy, from what I have seen, even their 16” versions are right about 1-1.5 moa with match or duty grade ammunition and a quality scope. Most Daniel Defense barrels are guaranteed at 1.5 moa. My agency uses DD rifles in both 10.3 and 16” and with duty grade ammo they hold right about 1-1.5 moa.
    Second look at your ammo, the Majority of ammo manufacturers who make “plinking” ammo for the AR platform shoot for a standard of 3-4 moa. Now many can shoot better than that but that is the standard. That is why Match shooters want ammo from the same lot if possible. Your current plinking ammo could be causing you to be 3-4 moa where a previous batch was closer to 1.5-2 moa.
    if you are really wanting to decide on moving away from your Saint, I would recommend buying some quailty match ammo, use a higher quality scope (nothing against Vortex but the strike Eagle is lacking in a lot of areas) and see what the rifle will actually do. Then you will have actual data to help you decide.
     
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    NateSavannah

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    In all seriousness I bought a radian model one. sub moa accuracy claims. that was about the time I found out how inaccurate the vast majority of 556 and 223 ammo is. found a whole lot of mil surplus/ commonly used rounds to be minute of man accurate. real lesson learned there. truthfully its hard to say how accurate that saint actually was if you never put high quality black hills type ammo thru it.
     
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    NateSavannah

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    I am trying to ask what a clone is..
    someone will probably tell me im stupid and wrong but it would be building you a mk18 to be identical or a "clone" of exactly what the military was issued when these were cool and issued. and the commercially available mk18 arent "clone correct" or exactly as issued. someone else will have to explain the differences between a clone correct and what dd sells because I dont know.
     
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    TMR137

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    A clone is where you source actual NSN utilized parts and build a rifle to the exact specs that the military used. So you are “cloning” the original. The term is often used in referring to the MK12, MK18, MK13, M40 series and such.
    Your “clone” will have all the true parts of a been there done that rifle.
     

    6.5SH

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    I am trying to ask what a clone is..
    Spending a ridiculous amount of money to buy the exact parts to build a copy of an issued gun.
    Some will go so far as to re-weld specific lowers.

    There is nothing wrong with that, it is a hobby and people can do whatever they want with their money.
     

    jaik77

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    someone will probably tell me im stupid and wrong but it would be building you a mk18 to be identical or a "clone" of exactly what the military was issued when these were cool and issued. and the commercially available mk18 arent "clone correct" or exactly as issued. someone else will have to explain the differences between a clone correct and what dd sells because I dont know.
    So is it better to buy a Daniel MK18 or build a “clone” and why
     

    jaik77

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    Spending a ridiculous amount of money to buy the exact parts to build a copy of an issued gun.
    Some will go so far as to re-weld specific lowers.

    There is nothing wrong with that, it is a hobby and people can do whatever they want with their money.
    So is it better to buy a Daniel MK18 or build a “clone” and why
     

    NateSavannah

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    So is it better to buy a Daniel MK18 or build a “clone” and why
    personal preference. a mk18 will come with support from DD if you ever need it. a Clone will be worth more as long as people still care about that kind of thing. and this is debatable but Ive found quality factory built rifles sometimes work a whole lot better than homebrew pieced together.
    but I will say as a guy who once again doesnt know the exact differences between a clone correct and what dd sells commercially I couldnt tell you if theres any actual real world differences in how theyll perform or last.
     
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    FCS

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    RRA 10.5”, SAS M-455, 60 Vmax, reman brass, SBR optimized load running 2570 fps, low $ Burris 3-9 (hey, it was in a mount and available).

    Ammo matters.
     
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    E-Tool

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    Some buyers think a MK18 is a factory DD, some manufacturers think a MK18 is any 10.2” railed upper.

    A mk18 is the nomenclature for a contract rifle that has a 10.3” colt barrel, a colt upper, a certain DD rail, exps ect.

    “Just because you put a feather in ass doesn’t make you a chicken”
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    bantaman2

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    So is it better to buy a Daniel MK18 or build a “clone” and why
    Buy the DD. “Clones” are just a purely niche item that will often sacrifice technological improvements or some times flat out better options in order to be exactly what mass produced government guns are.

    the DD will look the part, but also have a better barrel and a more modern gas port/operating system
     
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    MudRunner2005

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    Wondering if there are many downsides to the DD SBR.. I had a Springfield saint pistol in 5.56 and I know the barrel is shorter, but man it really disappointed me as far as accuracy.
    With the current (maybe short, but for now legal) ability to buy a pistol with a brace, the point of SBR'ing a rifle is pretty much pointless. I'd buy the pistol version, honestly, because you can still travel with it, without having to notify the ATF, and it doesn't require a $200 stamp, and a massive wait time just for approval. There's TONS of downsides to SBR'ing something, unless you just WANT to pay all that money and wait. And have to tell your nanny that you're taking it across state lines everywhere you go. 🤣

    As long as pistols and braces are legal, I see no point in registering an SBR. But if it becomes illegal, and we get to use that "free" $200 stamp and get an expedited Form 1...I might SBR a few of mine just for the hell of it. But until then, they're going to ramain braced pistols. 👍🏼
     
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    S197

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    I am trying to ask what a clone is..
    as Military firearms are spec’d and issued for use. The civilian market then collects these parts and build copies. The most common clones are the mk12 and certain mk18 ar15 or the MEUSOC 1911.

    Tip for cloning. hold onto your old parts as you upgrade your rifles and in 10 years they will be sought after.
     
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    G-Run

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    Wondering if there are many downsides to the DD SBR.. I had a Springfield saint pistol in 5.56 and I know the barrel is shorter, but man it really disappointed me as far

    I have the v7p (MK18 updated) its crazy accurate for a 10.3.
    go for it!
     
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    Peahi2

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    Just buy the Mk18. If you don't buy it, you'll always be wondering "what if".

    Don't be like me...I wanted a Mk18 (upper only, sorry I'm in K alifornia). Then I was rationalizing...well the mk18 is kind of dated, maybe I should go mlok...a lighter upper. So I got a DDM4V7 11.5 and I was happy, or so I thought. I still wanted a mk18. Then I got a 10.3 URGI...sweet! I still wanted a mk18. In august I ordered a Larue Stealth Upper 12 inch...a cool quad rail...still waiting for it. And I still want a mk18.

    Moral of the story, get the Mk18 if you can. BUT, don't even concern yourself with how tight the groups look until you put good ammo in it. And how are you gonna aim it? Are you expecting MOA groups at 100y with green tips & shooting iron sights or with the strike eagle on the mk 18?


    if you're gonna want to see how accurate it can be, might as well make it have a comfortable fit and make it easier to see the small precision target.
    photocredit: google image search Larue stealth upper. It was on a Japanese website...looks like they copied it from Tactical Life.
     
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    longshot2000

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    Buy the DD. “Clones” are just a purely niche item that will often sacrifice technological improvements or some times flat out better options in order to be exactly what mass produced government guns are.

    the DD will look the part, but also have a better barrel and a more modern gas port/operating system

    That is not true on the Mk18 platform. A military correct version uses a Colt upper and barrel and a DD gas block and rail. Functionally, they are about the same. There is no improvement DD has over a military correct “clone” MK18.

    On other platforms, a clone correct weapon could be better or worse than a commercial version. Usually, you can “do better” now than with a military correct weapon, but not always. Hard to beat a Mk11, for example.

    But, you will usually pay more for a good clone rifle. On the Mk18 platform, we sell DD and we make military correct. Military correct, you pay a premium, for sure. In the case of the Mk18, what I would say is you gain nothing in functionality, longevity or accuracy for paying more to be historically correct.
     

    jaik77

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    Just buy the Mk18. If you don't buy it, you'll always be wondering "what if".

    Don't be like me...I wanted a Mk18 (upper only, sorry I'm in K alifornia). Then I was rationalizing...well the mk18 is kind of dated, maybe I should go mlok...a lighter upper. So I got a DDM4V7 11.5 and I was happy, or so I thought. I still wanted a mk18. Then I got a 10.3 URGI...sweet! I still wanted a mk18. In august I ordered a Larue Stealth Upper 12 inch...a cool quad rail...still waiting for it. And I still want a mk18.

    Moral of the story, get the Mk18 if you can. BUT, don't even concern yourself with how tight the groups look until you put good ammo in it. And how are you gonna aim it? Are you expecting MOA groups at 100y with green tips & shooting iron sights or with the strike eagle on the mk 18?


    if you're gonna want to see how accurate it can be, might as well make it have a comfortable fit and make it easier to see the small precision target.
    photocredit: google image search Larue stealth upper. It was on a Japanese website...looks like they copied it from Tactical Life
    I’ll probably just put an EOTech on it.. I know the strike eagle is a cheaper scope, but when it was on my V11 it worked perfectly fine until my razor came in.