Shoulder bump consistency?

[regency]

I have a new reloading setup at my house and used copper creek to help me develop a load with their stage I and stage II kit. All is good and I have the load data now. It is 6.5 creed Alpha brass with H4350 and loaded with berger 130 AR hybrids

I deprimed, tumbled in wet stainless media, annealed with AMP machine, then went to full length resize and 2 things are happening.

1. All my brass is getting gouged around the full surface of the brass. (I lubed the brass with hornady spray lube and I cleaned my LE Wilson die before use)

2. After getting the die set in my Forster press my shoulder bumps are averaging between -.003 to +.001(most are -.001 and .000) when checking with my Whidden case gauge. Is this correct? Should it be the same every time?

 

[padom]

get some Imperial Sizing wax. you'll be much better off. some love One Shot. I hate it and get much better results with Imperial or a Lanolin mix.

for a semiauto I use .003" and when it's time to bump my bolt gun brass I do .0015"

 

[Juggerxxx]

get some Imperial Sizing wax. you'll be much better off. some love One Shot. I hate it and get much better results with Imperial or a Lanolin mix.

for a semiauto I use .003" and when it's time to bump my bolt gun brass I do .0015"

I agree! Some people have good results with one shot but I had bad results with it. Switched to imperial and have never had any of the same issues I did with one shot.
I do use one shot to lube the inside of my necks though.

 

[Milo 2.5]

First thing, you did not post a pic of gouged brass, but your die probably needs polished some now.
2nd, were all your brass the same measurement before sizing? If all brass not the same, you're going to have varying bumps.
3rd, lube is lube, we all have a favorite, I've used roll on, one shot, imperial, settled on home brew, if you want a consistent bump, all cases need to be lubed the same, and truthfully, you can feel this when sizing, when your about to the end of your press stroke, it should feel like the die sucked the case in. If it doesn't, or is hard, rotate the brass and re-pump.

 

[regency]

First thing, you did not post a pic of gouged brass, but your die probably needs polished some now.
2nd, were all your brass the same measurement before sizing? If all brass not the same, you're going to have varying bumps.
3rd, lube is lube, we all have a favorite, I've used roll on, one shot, imperial, settled on home brew, if you want a consistent bump, all cases need to be lubed the same, and truthfully, you can feel this when sizing, when your about to the end of your press stroke, it should feel like the die sucked the case in. If it doesn't, or is hard, rotate the brass and re-pump.

My brass was anywhere from just a hair above .000 up to +.002 on my case gauge, before sizing

Would having too much lube on the case cause it to compress the shoulder more? or less?

 

[m1match]

Excessive lube will cause dents in the case shoulder. Your cases definitely don't look normal they shouldn't have abrasion marks around the whole case. I personally don't like Hornady One Shot, I use the Dillon spray case lube. When I used Hornady One Shot, I always let the cases sit for a long time before sizing to allow the alcohol carrier to evaporate, like 20 minutes to 1/2 hour. What kind of sizing dies are you using. For sizing, I've used Hornady, RCBS, and Redding, and I've never had cases look like yours.

Since you've annealed in an AMP, your brass will have uniform characteristics and you should get pretty uniform sizing results when you measure your cases. I get variations in shoulders after resizing of around .001 but no more.

 

[Milo 2.5]

View attachment 6882961


My brass was anywhere from just a hair above .000 up to +.002 on my case gauge, before sizing

Would having too much lube on the case cause it to compress the shoulder more? or less?

Well, yes and no, reason being you do not have a baseline set. Somehow you need to get a consistent bump, if it means going over .002" on the first bump, then resetting for the next time, do it.
Your die needs some work, cleaned up, need to figure where the shavings are coming from, are your case mouths rough?

 

[Milo 2.5]

Let me clarify ^^^, if some of your brass going GO +2 on the whidden case guage, if you size all to GO+1, do they chamber, not all brass grows the same, make sense?

 

[regency]

Let me clarify ^^^, if some of your brass going GO +2 on the whidden case guage, if you size all to GO+1, do they chamber, not all brass grows the same, make sense?

I get resistance if it it above .000, not a lot but I can tell on the ones that got bumped right at or below .000 are like butter. It's a GAprecision chamber. Copper Creek's loaded rounds that I have not fired yet average right around -.0005 up to +.0005

 

[Milo 2.5]

I get resistance if it it above .000, not a lot but I can tell on the ones that got bumped right at or below .000 are like butter. It's a GAprecision chamber. Copper Creek's loaded rounds that I have not fired yet average right around -.0005 up to +.0005

Ok, so you have a baseline at GO 000, make them chamber, after 2nd firing, when brass more consistent, relieve the bump if you can, That Whidden gauge is awesome, have one for all my cases and would not be w/o.

 

[Milo 2.5]

Now we need to figure what is causing all the scratches on your case, take a pic of the case mouth on once fried brass, sometimes the expander ball can pull rough shit from the mouth, gets deposited in the die.

 

[regency]

Now we need to figure what is causing all the scratches on your case, take a pic of the case mouth on once fried brass, sometimes the expander ball can pull rough shit from the mouth, gets deposited in the die.

The LE Wilson bushing die doesn't have an expander ball

 

[Milo 2.5]

View attachment 6882992View attachment 6882993

The LE Wilson bushing die doesn't have an expander ball

Ok, do you have a trimmer with a 3 way cutter, if so, trim some, or chamfer and debur all before sizing, those case mouths look rough to me. You also need to clean your die with a copper solvent, then shine flashlight in it to inspect for scratch lines, if still there, go to gun shop, but a packet or 2 of flitz polish, 2 shotgun bore mops around the size of your case and polish your die out.

 

[regency]

Ok, do you have a trimmer with a 3 way cutter, if so, trim some, or chamfer and debur all before sizing, those case mouths look rough to me. You also need to clean your die with a copper solvent, then shine flashlight in it to inspect for scratch lines, if still there, go to gun shop, but a packet or 2 of flitz polish, 2 shotgun bore mops around the size of your case and polish your die out.

I have a worlds finest trimmer drill attachment and a debur tool. I didn't realize that needed to be done prior to sizing. I thought that was for after...

 

[Milo 2.5]

I have a worlds finest trimmer drill attachment and a debur tool. I didn't realize that needed to be done prior to sizing. I thought that was for after...

Usually it is, your cases to me look like they were never chamfered, should see a slight bevel.

 

[m1match]

I have a GAP 308 that was built in 2003 and the chamber was cut very tight with a Palma 95 reamer. Using an RCBC case mic (just like the Whidden), even my cases that are sized to 000 cause difficult bolt lift on extraction. I have to size them to -.002 to get easy extraction and I have to seat my 175 SMKs deeper because the throats are short.

 

[parshal]

I had the exact same problem in my 6.5 SS with the Whidden die. The shoulder bump varied .001-.002 and, sometimes, .003. I was using Imperial wax. I was also annealing with an AMP each time. I had some cases that wouldn't bump down enough, too. Annealing those a bit more helped but it was a PITA.

I received a little sample of Forster sizing lube the other day when I ordered some parts and decided to give it a try. The cases were all consistent. Went back to the Imperial and inconsistent. I still get a couple cases that won't size down enough but not nearly as many. For whatever reason this die doesn't like Imperial. I'd also get stuck cases with the Imperial and none with the Forster. I use the Hornady One-Shot without issue in my 22 and 6 Creedmoors. I think it just all depends. Try different stuff and see what it likes.

Incidentally, when I used the Forster lube I see the exact same marks on my cases that you show in the pictures. I don't get any of that with the Imperial. I'm sticking with the Forster for this combo simply because it's consistent. I just think my die and cases are a real tight fit and it doesn't like the waxy Imperial.

 

[bluebu70]

The outside of your cases looks to me like you may have brass galled inside of your die. Take your decpping pin out, clean the die with solvent and look inside with a flashlight. Milo 2.5 alluded to that already. If you have galling, it will be obvious to the eye. This brass really contrasts with the steel finish of the die. The bad news is, that shit is hard to clean out and it will continue to worsen if not removed. Look in there and see if that is the issue and don’t size anymore brass if it is.

 

[parshal]

Mine has been mirror polished. You can literally see your reflection. I spent hours trying to figure it out and I polished the die chucked in the lathe finishing with Flitz.

 

[regency]

The outside of your cases looks to me like you may have brass galled inside of your die. Take your decpping pin out, clean the die with solvent and look inside with a flashlight. Milo 2.5 alluded to that already. If you have galling, it will be obvious to the eye. This brass really contrasts with the steel finish of the die. The bad news is, that shit is hard to clean out and it will continue to worsen if not removed. Look in there and see if that is the issue and don’t size anymore brass if it is.

There is roughness all the way up the die. Wilson wanted me to send the die back with 5 cases I sized that were inconsistent and scratched and 5 pieces of brass that were untouched but once fired. I should hear something back next week.

One extra question I have, should I only lube the sides of the case but not lube the shoulder/neck? Wondering if having too much or too little lube there changes the shoulder bump consistency?

 

[Milo 2.5]

There is roughness all the way up the die. Wilson wanted me to send the die back with 5 cases I sized that were inconsistent and scratched and 5 pieces of brass that were untouched but once fired. I should hear something back next week.

One extra question I have, should I only lube the sides of the case but not lube the shoulder/neck? Wondering if having too much or too little lube there changes the shoulder bump consistency?

Really only the bottom half of a case needs lube, evenly lubed is the key here.

 

[flyright]

Lanolin/.99% alcohol lube got me to less than .001 case to case. Imperial was inconsistent for me and One shot was inconsistent with some nearly stuck cases. Very light spray on the shoulder and body with an angle that will get just a bit in a few necks and you're gtg. Even with identical brass, there will always be a weird one or two out of 50 annealed or not. Just my .02.

 

[Dave62677]

Imperial wax is my problem for inconsistency shoulder bump. If it work for you,great keep using it. Since I switch to the Dillion alcohol spray lube, problem solved.