I have always wanted to build my own rifle. I always intended to build a savage since I could do it with a barrel nut. I just never got around to it. So I bought an ARC nucleus action. I had a friend who has building rifles for years tell me that although he used to make his own shouldered barrels, he only uses a barrel nut. He says the tolerances would be too large on a shouldered prefit. Is there a better way to go or just different?
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Your friend is wrong.
You can do either a shouldered or a barrel nut on a good action like a nucleus.
You can do either a shouldered or a barrel nut on a good action like a nucleus.
He’s wrong
I’ve ran a few barrel nut and shouldered barrels on my Nuke.
2 nutted 260, 2 nutted 7 saum, 1 shouldered 7 saum and 1(soon to be 2) shouldered 338 edge.
Never had any issues with any.
You can threadlock the nut on a barrel nut version to get the bit easier swap abilities of the shouldered.
My Nuke measured to within 1/10 of the diameter of a hair to the listed spec Ted posted.
More than good enough for shouldered barrel prefits.
I’ve ran a few barrel nut and shouldered barrels on my Nuke.
2 nutted 260, 2 nutted 7 saum, 1 shouldered 7 saum and 1(soon to be 2) shouldered 338 edge.
Never had any issues with any.
You can threadlock the nut on a barrel nut version to get the bit easier swap abilities of the shouldered.
My Nuke measured to within 1/10 of the diameter of a hair to the listed spec Ted posted.
More than good enough for shouldered barrel prefits.
Just different. If you buy the pre-fit from a reputable site and build it to your action specifications, a barrel nut is no better or worse than a shouldered pre-fit. I ordered a pre-fit from McGowen to attach to my TAC-300 (Rem-700) action, and it fits beautifully ... no barrel nut required.
Here's a prefit that I recieved last month.
Gunsmith never even touched the action.
Engraving lines up perfectly.
I'd also say your friend is wrong.
Gunsmith never even touched the action.
Engraving lines up perfectly.
I'd also say your friend is wrong.
There's no reason not to go with a shouldered barrel if you are using an acting held to such tight tolerances as an ARC.
There's more fucking around with a barrel nut, you are more limited on barrel options, and there's really no advantage.
There's more fucking around with a barrel nut, you are more limited on barrel options, and there's really no advantage.
One advantage...nut barrels are generally cheaper. A CBI is less than 400 bucks. You just have to live with @b6graham making fun of your ugly nut lol.
but how do you get a 30# 6BR PRS rifle with a barrel nut and 26" barrel?
Not all of us compete in barricade benchrest and need a gamer gun.
That's what those insanely expensive weights are for...
My 338 isn’t even close to 30#
You can also set adjust headspace yourself with a barrel nut. My barrel nut barrels are set up about .002 longer than my brass comes out the die with a good over center on the shell holder.
Headspace was more my friends issue. He wants a minimal headspace and thought he would lose that with a shouldered prefit even though he also was using an ARC action.
I set mine the same
I've been more surprised by shouldered prefits introduced lately for production actions, like Tikka.
They're a fine action- esp. for production- but, still mass production at a price point.
To achieve .001 headspace tolerance, requires both receiver and barrel to be incredibly precise.
With tolerance stacking, both the boltface to receiver ring, and the chamber depth/gauge protrusion must be within .0005 each.
I'd love to have a pile of 50 Tikka actions, random off the assembly line- to see if they meet this standard.
Be surprised as fuck if they all did.
They're a fine action- esp. for production- but, still mass production at a price point.
To achieve .001 headspace tolerance, requires both receiver and barrel to be incredibly precise.
With tolerance stacking, both the boltface to receiver ring, and the chamber depth/gauge protrusion must be within .0005 each.
I'd love to have a pile of 50 Tikka actions, random off the assembly line- to see if they meet this standard.
Be surprised as fuck if they all did.
I’m assuming they are good enough to fall in the range of go to no go.
That’s fine for most.
^^^
That's a workaround.
There's not a smith on this forum- including myself- that would hand a rifle or barreled action back to a customer with headspace barely below "no-go" and call it good. If you were the customer, I'd bet you wouldn't accept it, either.
Even though most shooters don't handload, it's still not a safety issue with headspace on the long side of spec.
We could talk about lug setback with heavy use rendering a rifle where the headspace was barely within "go" spec rendering it unsafe with heavy use, but set that aside.
The reason we shoot for "go + .001" is because that is what is best for accuracy. Beyond that, case "end play" in the chamber affects accuracy. One thing in a hunting rifle, but quite another for a "precision" rifle. As Steel Head said above, probably good enough for most- but be honest about the end product.
I'm just raising the question- like I said, I'd love to have a run of several dozen actions/bolts to see for myself.
The premise is that a prefit shouldered barrel is "just as good as" (in terms of tolerances-including chambering/concentricity) as a custom fitted by a smith.
I know this can be the case with high-end clones, and prefits from top-end manufacturers and smiths that produce them.
Tikka, Ruger, etc. I suspect, not so much. Marketing...
That's a workaround.
There's not a smith on this forum- including myself- that would hand a rifle or barreled action back to a customer with headspace barely below "no-go" and call it good. If you were the customer, I'd bet you wouldn't accept it, either.
Even though most shooters don't handload, it's still not a safety issue with headspace on the long side of spec.
We could talk about lug setback with heavy use rendering a rifle where the headspace was barely within "go" spec rendering it unsafe with heavy use, but set that aside.
The reason we shoot for "go + .001" is because that is what is best for accuracy. Beyond that, case "end play" in the chamber affects accuracy. One thing in a hunting rifle, but quite another for a "precision" rifle. As Steel Head said above, probably good enough for most- but be honest about the end product.
I'm just raising the question- like I said, I'd love to have a run of several dozen actions/bolts to see for myself.
The premise is that a prefit shouldered barrel is "just as good as" (in terms of tolerances-including chambering/concentricity) as a custom fitted by a smith.
I know this can be the case with high-end clones, and prefits from top-end manufacturers and smiths that produce them.
Tikka, Ruger, etc. I suspect, not so much. Marketing...
Not sure I believe this.
The reason I set my headspace tight is because I’m brass McScrooge and I like my expensive brass to last a long time.
Even that can be fine with a lot of headspace if you employ some standard brass fire forming techniques.
Granted your hosed if you just shoot factory ammunition.
Tight headspace is just because I’m lazy and don’t have any extra steps.
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I have Arc nucleus and I have a few shoulder prefits and a few barrel nut barrels. Honestly both styles shoot amazing and haven't had 1 issue with headspace and that is putting the shoulder prefit on 3 different Nucleus actions (mine dad's and friend) they all headspace fine. Everything lines up great as well. The barrel nut are nice they are cheaper and can set headspace as you like I set everything up and redloctite the nut in place for easy swaps at 40 ft pounds. The only thing I see difference is the shoulder are fast let just screw on check headspace the barrel nut is a little bit longer process specially loctiting the nut. But the nut barrels are way cheaper. I can have one done $400 easy shoulder I have $625 in shoulder.
A cheap caliper is still a pretty decent at decerning that the difference between .028 and .030 is going to be close to .002. I am pretty happy with .002 difference across 100 rounds.
I have a bit of a concern on this subject so excuse my slightly off track question.
I have a new Archimedes and a "new" (as in unused) barrel that I'm pretty sure I got from X-caliber. I've had that a couple of years and have not fired it. I did exchange it with the Savage .308 barrel on the 10FCP McMillan, just didn't shoot it.
Anyway, when I went to put it on the Archimedes there is noticeable sloppy fit in the threads. It goes away when I hand tighten the nut down. But, that just doesn't seem quite right to me.
I think I'll try the Savage barrel fit on the Archimedes and swap them to check the difference.
Any other thoughts than that? Cause for concern?........Thanks!
I have a new Archimedes and a "new" (as in unused) barrel that I'm pretty sure I got from X-caliber. I've had that a couple of years and have not fired it. I did exchange it with the Savage .308 barrel on the 10FCP McMillan, just didn't shoot it.
Anyway, when I went to put it on the Archimedes there is noticeable sloppy fit in the threads. It goes away when I hand tighten the nut down. But, that just doesn't seem quite right to me.
I think I'll try the Savage barrel fit on the Archimedes and swap them to check the difference.
Any other thoughts than that? Cause for concern?........Thanks!
Measure the outside threads. I have a barrel that is sloppy but tightens up those threads were 1.053 but That barrel is a hammer out to 2k. Savage threads 1.055 but arc can take up to 1.062 per website. I use guys who want to know what action and make them fit tighter.
Yes sir, 1.055". That must be the difference.
I'll have to ponder that some.
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