Thats awesome! Ill test them out and post up the results like I did with the 169's for sure. Sent you a PM or feel free to text me if thats easier. Im working today but we can set something up next time you come down my way
- Thread starter Mooseknuckles
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Thats awesome! Ill test them out and post up the results like I did with the 169's for sure. Sent you a PM or feel free to text me if thats easier. Im working today but we can set something up next time you come down my way
Reviving this because in Utah county, Utah we have a retailer that has a ton of these. I picked up a couple boxes not knowing anything about them other than I love shooting the 175 SMK. I'm going to run them through a 26" 308 and a 26" WIN MAG. Being in Utah I have access to some long long ranges so I'll come back and update as I find out more. They are not on Sierra's website as of today and I can't find hardly anything about them except on here with you fine folks. I really appreciate you guys!
That bullet was put out a couple of years ago and was listed on the website for a while then pulled. Don't remember if they were shown as discontinued or not. A while later the 169 SMK was introduced and is still available. The few reviews that were out at the time didn't seem to see the need for the bullet. The improvement in the 168 has been shown to be significant for most of the posted reviews.
Actually ......
The 169s came out a few months before the 177s (Jan 2021 for the 169 vs Mar 2021 for the 177).
The 177s are long and don't work well in gas guns. There are a couple threads on both bullets but in general, they shoot like the TMK bullets of the same weights.
I actually have a few of 177's here you gave me to test that I never got around to doing. I'm gonna load them up and will post up the results.
Not the way I remember it but I was going by the website so we know how misleading that can be. It seems that Midway and Creedmoor have them in stock now which seems to indicate they may not have been a one shot deal as it appeared back then. The 175 SMK was developed for the military around the desire to have a 1000 yd/meter(?) round M118 LR as I recall.
It is hard to believe that Sierra will carry 6 Matchkings (2 TMK, 4 SMK) with less than 5.4% weight difference.
The 169smk were 1000% released first... I tested them here then the 177smk came out..
I remember the 169gr SMK coming out and being bummed I couldn't get my hands on any. I honestly hadn't even heard about the 177 until I saw a huge stack of them at my lgs. I'm excited though. If they shoot close to as good as the 175 SMK I'll be tickled pink. They have them at $35.99 a box which is killer compared to other offerings. Even the Barnes, which I also love shooting are almost $40 a box
Here how the 169smk did for me. Shot amazing, especially at distance and prefered being closer to the lands in my 24" Krieger 4 groove. 2724 SD 5 42.6gr IMR4064
700yd
2" at 700
700yd
2" at 700
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I don't use coal. All my measurements are to the Ogive...let me look at my notes and see if I can translate to coal for you to see where my ogivr measurements were in relation to coal
As much as I like the 169 SMK's, this thread is supposed to be about the 177 SMK's, so. . .
I did get hold of some 177's as they are available at various places now. I took some measurements of the various parts of the bullet to put that data into QuickLoad to give me some idea where I'll start with the AR-Comp that I've had such good luck with and have plenty of data from other bullets. Since I just wanted a little data to start with, I load up10 rounds with 40.5 grs of AR-Comp in Peterson SRP brass with CCI-400's primer, seating with a COAL of 2.297 (.020 off the lands for my particular chamber) and got an average MV of 2635 fps. with the ambient temperature at 93°F. Groups were not good, but I wasn't really expecting them to be. Now, I'll run an OCW test with .003 increments from 39.9 up to no more than 42.0 grs and see what the target tells me. And just as an additional look-see, I'll load up some Lapua SRP brass with Fed 205M primers and the 40.5 gr of AR-Comp.
Note: These 177's, like the 169's, are pointed. Though they're pointed like the 169's, unlike my 169's, this box of 100 177's has quite a bit of variance in their OAL's. But BTO's are quite consistent.
I did get hold of some 177's as they are available at various places now. I took some measurements of the various parts of the bullet to put that data into QuickLoad to give me some idea where I'll start with the AR-Comp that I've had such good luck with and have plenty of data from other bullets. Since I just wanted a little data to start with, I load up10 rounds with 40.5 grs of AR-Comp in Peterson SRP brass with CCI-400's primer, seating with a COAL of 2.297 (.020 off the lands for my particular chamber) and got an average MV of 2635 fps. with the ambient temperature at 93°F. Groups were not good, but I wasn't really expecting them to be. Now, I'll run an OCW test with .003 increments from 39.9 up to no more than 42.0 grs and see what the target tells me. And just as an additional look-see, I'll load up some Lapua SRP brass with Fed 205M primers and the 40.5 gr of AR-Comp.
Note: These 177's, like the 169's, are pointed. Though they're pointed like the 169's, unlike my 169's, this box of 100 177's has quite a bit of variance in their OAL's. But BTO's are quite consistent.
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Alright, I know it's been a while but I finally have some time between projects to test these 177's.
Just measured them in my 24" Krieger 4 groove .308 Bisley chamber. These are a completely different profile for sure. They are WAY longer to lands than the 175smk and identical distance to lands as 169smk... these are closer to the 175 TMK which is a little longer.. here the numbers...
Distance to lands COAL
155 TMK - 2.916"
168 TMK - 2.912'
169 SMK - 2.883"
175 SMK - 2.789"
177 SMK - 2.883"
Gonna load these up with my 175SMK IMR 4064 load and put them off the lands same as the 169smk liked and test them out.
See how that does then do a load work up around that if need be to tweak it...
Just measured them in my 24" Krieger 4 groove .308 Bisley chamber. These are a completely different profile for sure. They are WAY longer to lands than the 175smk and identical distance to lands as 169smk... these are closer to the 175 TMK which is a little longer.. here the numbers...
Distance to lands COAL
155 TMK - 2.916"
168 TMK - 2.912'
169 SMK - 2.883"
175 SMK - 2.789"
177 SMK - 2.883"
Gonna load these up with my 175SMK IMR 4064 load and put them off the lands same as the 169smk liked and test them out.
See how that does then do a load work up around that if need be to tweak it...
Look at post #22 with my comparative dimensions:
www.snipershide.com
Sierra 177 smk?
Looks like another new 30 cal bullet from Sierra. 177 smk. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1023263355?pid=734951
www.snipershide.com Look at post #22 with my comparative dimensions:
Sierra 177 smk?
Looks like another new 30 cal bullet from Sierra. 177 smk. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1023263355?pid=734951
Did you shoot them yet?
I shot 1 string of these just to see if I'd get speed with a case full of RL15.5.
45.3 @ 2.900" Gordon's shows 102.8% fill. Speed was 2741 SD 8.5 GM210 primer. Shot right at .750" not bad with no load work up.
The lands are at 2.910 with this 26" PVA Osprey.
Have some loaded up for this weekend using Staball Match 44.1-45.0
Looks like PP 2000MR or N550 would be similar. Plumb full case before pressure. Anyone have experience with either of these using 170 class 308's?
Not sure it'd be worth spending the coin for minimal if any improvement over Varget or the 15.5?
45.3 @ 2.900" Gordon's shows 102.8% fill. Speed was 2741 SD 8.5 GM210 primer. Shot right at .750" not bad with no load work up.
The lands are at 2.910 with this 26" PVA Osprey.
Have some loaded up for this weekend using Staball Match 44.1-45.0
Looks like PP 2000MR or N550 would be similar. Plumb full case before pressure. Anyone have experience with either of these using 170 class 308's?
Not sure it'd be worth spending the coin for minimal if any improvement over Varget or the 15.5?
No experience in 308 but I do have plenty of PP 2000MR, N550 and N555...
N555 is my go to for 6GT with 109's.
I'm seriously lacking experience loading for heavy 308 bolt gun though.
Varget was the easy button for the 169smk's to 2800
Have a wild hair up my ass to shoot the Major land match with the 308. Would like to get either the 177's or 178 PVA's up near 2800, but I can certainly work with 2750ish for the 177's
Tried some of the 178 PVA's & just cant get enough 15.5 in the case to break 2650. That was @2.970" Have a ladder loaded with Lever to try. Not temp stable, but curious if I can get the 178's scooting.
Hmmm??? Other than my caliper insert having a different hole diameter to compare measurements involving the ogive, My 177 SMK's vs 169 SMK's measure very different distances by .025". For example, the BTO for the 177's measures .610" and for the 169's it's .585". Of course, there can be differences in lots, which I'll be receiving another this week and will compare them to what I've got.
Given that different chambers have different freebore distances, distance to the lands doesn't really say anything about the properties of the bullet. I've loaded up 50 rounds of 177's to run an OCW test with the COAL at 2.931" (average) and the CBTO's are at 2.217" (a .020 jump to my lands). And this in for my 26" Krieger barrel mounted on an RPR.
Am just trying to show how these numbers can be very different depending on the difference in the tools being used and the chamber's one is working with.
I did out of my AI. To me, not as good as the 169, on-par with the 175. To me, not worth deviating from the 169.
I just got to the range to test these... they are lights fucking out in the first 10rds!
I screwed my 24" Krieger HV 4G with 308 Bisley chamber back on my TL3. gave it a real good cleaning
Loaded up 50rd with 42gr of IMR4064... my 169smk load was 42.4 so I dropped down 0.4gr today..
I had 60pc of 3x fired Lapua SRP brass ready to load for this barrel... I loaded 35rd seated 0.005 off lands and then I loaded 5rd each seating test from touching to 0.02 off in 0.005 increments..
I shot 3rd to zero the rifle.. then Shot 2 more went right through same hole.. I then shot a 5rd group and it's one large ragged hole...
Hahaha. If I knew it was gonna be this easy I would have Loaded all 60rd at this seating depth and shot all distance today..
First 10rd out of this 24" barrel 2626 SD 6.....
I'll post some groups up when I go down range
I screwed my 24" Krieger HV 4G with 308 Bisley chamber back on my TL3. gave it a real good cleaning
Loaded up 50rd with 42gr of IMR4064... my 169smk load was 42.4 so I dropped down 0.4gr today..
I had 60pc of 3x fired Lapua SRP brass ready to load for this barrel... I loaded 35rd seated 0.005 off lands and then I loaded 5rd each seating test from touching to 0.02 off in 0.005 increments..
I shot 3rd to zero the rifle.. then Shot 2 more went right through same hole.. I then shot a 5rd group and it's one large ragged hole...
Hahaha. If I knew it was gonna be this easy I would have Loaded all 60rd at this seating depth and shot all distance today..
First 10rd out of this 24" barrel 2626 SD 6.....
I'll post some groups up when I go down range
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What was your COAL? Looks like you've loaded them to fit your mag.
If I load to .001 of my lands my CBTO would be 2.236 (using my Sinclair comparator insert) and COAL at ~2.946
To get some idea how my comparator insert compare to yours, assuming our lots have close to the same dimensions, what measurement do you get for the bullet's BTO? My BTO is .610".
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I didn't load them in relation to any measurements of my magazine. I loaded them exactly how I stated above I measured the bullets in my rifle and chamber and found distance to the lands and then all my measurements are based off of that
2.884 was my 0.001 into lands load...
I'll take some measurements here in a little bit and post them up
Here my first 10 shots out of the cleaned cold gun.. 3 shots to get rough zero... Then I made one last correction and shot 2 shots at top left pink dot then 5 shots at middle top pink dot.
I then fired this quick seating test without letting barrel cool. It was warm for sure.. Just wanted to see if there were any drastic changes that stood out. Looks like its not too picky on seating depth. Closest to lands definitely shot the tightest which is what I found with the 169 SMK's as well...
I then fired off the last 20rd I had at 200yd. Shot a 10rd group and 2 5rd groups. Not too shabby for zero load development.. Id say they shoot for sure...
Ill do a mini charge weight test above and below 42.0gr @ +0.001 into lands then I can fire off some testing at 500, 600, 700yd...
I then fired this quick seating test without letting barrel cool. It was warm for sure.. Just wanted to see if there were any drastic changes that stood out. Looks like its not too picky on seating depth. Closest to lands definitely shot the tightest which is what I found with the 169 SMK's as well...
I then fired off the last 20rd I had at 200yd. Shot a 10rd group and 2 5rd groups. Not too shabby for zero load development.. Id say they shoot for sure...
Ill do a mini charge weight test above and below 42.0gr @ +0.001 into lands then I can fire off some testing at 500, 600, 700yd...
Just measured a bunch of these.
OAL - 1.325"
Using SAC 30cal bullet comparator
They are consistently 0.576" to Ogive
Using Hornady 30cal bullet comparator
They are 0.672" to ogive
OAL - 1.325"
Using SAC 30cal bullet comparator
They are consistently 0.576" to Ogive
Using Hornady 30cal bullet comparator
They are 0.672" to ogive
Thanks for this!
Your OAL's are very close to the 1.324 average that I got.
Quite a difference between my Sinclair comparator and yours, as it is with my Hornady comparator as well.
Looks like the velocities you've got is very close to what my QuickLoad app calculates for the particular lot of IMR-4064 that have. Pressure being a bit over max. And I see you're using the CCI magnum SRP's.
(edit on 8-17-2023, adding a new lot #2 I just received)
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Was doing some load development with AR-Comp for the 177 SMK's and it looks like this is not the powder for them. Got some good results at 42.0 grs (high pressure) and 41.4 grs was also a little above SAAMI max. I don't want to run that hot. I had loaded up 10 rounds with 42.5 IMR-4064 and got a 10 round group of .331 MOA at 100 yds with MV average at 2639 fps with CCI-400's. Note the OAL is at 2.937" (.010 of my lands) and barely fit in my mag I'll have to run another test to verify if this is really that consistent.
@straightshooter1 - Do you have Staball Match powder in Quick load??
I'm using Gordon's & it's not in there.
Shot a ladder today with the 177's & Staball match looking for a powder charge. Just 3 shots each for these.
26" PVA Osprey 10T
177smk oal 2.882 cbto 2.229 = .021 jump, GM210 primers, RWS Brass.
Staball Match
44.1 = 2677 SD 10.3 .555"
44.4 = 2699 SD 11.1 .484"
44.7 = 2729 SD 9.6 .753"
45.0 = 2730 SD 1.7 ** Small
No hard bolt & cant really see any pressure signs. Primers might be a touch flat, but no cratering. I'd love to know where I'm at with pressure.
Brass is the 3 from the 45.0 load. I can see the tooling marks from the bolt face on the primer.
Going to try again with 5 rounds each 44.8 - 45.2 in .2 steps.
Picked .021 jump for the 177 because the 169's shot very well there.
My gas gun was similar with Staball Match & 168's in that it shot better at the upper end loads.
I'm using Gordon's & it's not in there.
Shot a ladder today with the 177's & Staball match looking for a powder charge. Just 3 shots each for these.
26" PVA Osprey 10T
177smk oal 2.882 cbto 2.229 = .021 jump, GM210 primers, RWS Brass.
Staball Match
44.1 = 2677 SD 10.3 .555"
44.4 = 2699 SD 11.1 .484"
44.7 = 2729 SD 9.6 .753"
45.0 = 2730 SD 1.7 ** Small
No hard bolt & cant really see any pressure signs. Primers might be a touch flat, but no cratering. I'd love to know where I'm at with pressure.
Brass is the 3 from the 45.0 load. I can see the tooling marks from the bolt face on the primer.
Going to try again with 5 rounds each 44.8 - 45.2 in .2 steps.
Picked .021 jump for the 177 because the 169's shot very well there.
My gas gun was similar with Staball Match & 168's in that it shot better at the upper end loads.
My QL doesn't have StaBall Match and I think I have the latest update which I acquired several months ago. Some data that I've accumulated shows that StaBall Match's burn rate is very close to the Winchester 748's, and the Winchester 748 is listed in QL. So I took the QL data for 748's along with that from Hodgdon's reloading data for StaBall Matach on 175 SEI HPBT and did a little interpolation and then used your velocities with the 177's to see your various loads tracked with the calculations (not knowing the case volume to use for RSW brass, I used SAAMI's 56.0 grs). Since I got pretty good tracking with your velocities, it appears the 45.0 grs of StaBall Match for the 177's is right at or maybe a hair above SAAMI max pressure . . . just to give you some idea. Since I don't want my estimated calculations to have a chance of going viral in any way, I'm not going to show my QL calc's. Hopefully, the next QL update will have this and more of the new powder's in its database.
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I'll have to check my QL...I purchased the QL update a few months ago as well...but I think I got another QL update email recently I didn't purchase yet.ill have to check
Just checked me email. July 20th update but looking st the update log it's for Hornady .257 bullets
Thanks for running those numbers for me. FWIW I did measure fired RWS on the FX 120 & h20 volume was 56.06 avg.
That's why I chose the GM210 primer for this test hoping it would show pressure if I hit any, quicker than a cci#34 of GM215 anyway.
Another interesting point of information is that I also shot a ladder with Staball Match & 168TMK's yesterday.
Same brass, primers, environmental's etc.
44.7 = 2747 SD 8.3 .712"
45.0 = 2765 SD 2.4 .207"
45.3 = 2788 SD 16.5 .902"
45.6 = 2797 SD 27.6 .850"
45.9 = 2842 This was a single shot & no pressure signs. Primer pocket still tight.
Just like the 177's 45.0 was low SD & best group.
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Accuracy wise both the 169 and 177 shot same tiny ass groups.... I use 4064
The 177 and 169 were accurate from the first group and powder tried..
The 177 gr with 44 gr IMR 4895 from an ultra light 16" 6 lb 3 oz AR 10 (without scope.) Ran 3 shot groups in the .2" and .3" followed by 5 shots around 3/4". 2584 ave fps 10.8 S/D from light weight fluted barrel 11.25 twist. I'd say give them a try, this was the first and only powder I tried, with the 177 SMK.
The 177 gr with 44 gr IMR 4895 from an ultra light 16" 6 lb 3 oz AR 10 (without scope.) Ran 3 shot groups in the .2" and .3" followed by 5 shots around 3/4". 2584 ave fps 10.8 S/D from light weight fluted barrel 11.25 twist. I'd say give them a try, this was the first and only powder I tried, with the 177 SMK.
Attachments
How did this turn out?
I haven’t revisited the Staball Match.
Settled on a load with RL 15.5 that’s working well.
177smk
45.4gr
2.885 oal/2.235 bto
Primed Norma brass
2758fps
PVA chambered Osprey 10T 26”
This was a zero check target from Franks class with the above load. That’s 6 shots & the one on the right was Nick’s 6.5 lol.
Also shot this load in the Major Land Match so about 300 rounds so far.
This Osprey is the easiest barrel I’ve ever had to clean.
Those are pretty good velocities with a 175gr + bullet. Just wondered if it was sustainable. Guess so. I might have to try some
