Sig 716 DRM or GAP 10?

[MMH]

I am seriously considering a Sig 716 DRM. It comes with a Geissele two stage trigger, threaded barrel, Magpul UBR stock, Harris swivel bipod and hard case. I think I can get it for $2200. I like that it is a piston gun w/ a adjustable gas system as eventually I will want to put a suppressor on it. From what I read, this gun is fairly accurate - I am seeing allot of posts claiming sub MOA. The down side for me is that the barrel is 18". I would like to use this gun for deer/antelope out at 600 yards and wish that it came w/ a 20" for better velocity.

From what I read on this board, the GAP 10 is "in another league". I got on their site and it seems like with similar options (except for piston gas system) a GAP 10 would be about $1000 more, which to me is significant.

I am leaning towards the 716. However, I would appreciate comments to help me make a final decision.

 

[samnev]

I vote for the GAP 10 with no reservations. Partial quote from MindCrime.

GAP-10 Accuracy .308 caliber.... WOW!
I just received my (LNIB) 11/2013 production GAP-10 Rifle in .308 caliber. I bought it off of someone who needed money and had put only 150 rounds thru it. It has a 20" bartlien Match barrel, Upgraded Geissele SSA-E trigger, MagPul PRS Stock, and all of the bells and whistles. Well I received it the other day and gave it a real good cleaning. I installed my new Sightron SIII 8-24x56mm Mil-Dot scope and took it out to my private range in my back yard.

I shot 3 rounds of some old 155 grain Hornady AMAX to get zeroed in. I then loaded some of my good stuff, Hornady TAP Precision 168 grain AMAX in the Red LE box. I shot 5 consecutive shots rather quickly at 100 yards and my group size was just a tad over 1/4" center to center. All in the bullseye. This thing shot like a laser. So I proceeded to 200 yards and adjusted my scope and fired 5 more shots. Dead on and all 5 shots measured at .450" center to center, just under a 1/2" group at 200 yards. And thats 5 shots.WOW!!!

 

[USMC_03XX]

Really no comparison between the 2. The Sig is a production line proprietary piston driven gun. The GAP is a custom to your spec legacy DI gun with its DNA consisting of a proven design. It's up to you - either will do what you need it to, the GAP just makes the ride more enjoyable. I have an 18" GAP-10, an 18" OBR and a 16" MWS. 18" offers great capability without making it unwieldy in length or weight

18" is more than enough for medium sized game WELL past 600.

Just my opinion...

 

[Cobracutter]

^^^^^^What USMC_03XX said. The real benefit of the custom AR's, is different calibers. Lets face it, .308 is becoming obsolete for the purposes that we build or have these guns built now. If you want a hunting rig, its really hard to beat .260 or 6.5CM in an AR10 frame gun. Shoots flatter,bucks wind and hits harder at range than .308. If your going to hunt long range, you owe it to the animal to do it ethically by ensuring hits to the vitals at any range, and enough energy to put it down quickly.

 

[cal50]

Piston operation = SIG
Direct gas = "other"

Lots of good rifles to choose from either way and I have a new SIG 716 to test run.

 

[tipper]

gun for deer/antelope out at 600 yards , the best of luck to you.

 

[cruze5]

I own a GAP and a Sig 516

you can not beat GAP customer service. i have received email replies within a few hours or less from GAP. good luck with that from Sig

 

[MMH]

^^^^^^What USMC_03XX said. The real benefit of the custom AR's, is different calibers. Lets face it, .308 is becoming obsolete for the purposes that we build or have these guns built now. If you want a hunting rig, its really hard to beat .260 or 6.5CM in an AR10 frame gun. Shoots flatter,bucks wind and hits harder at range than .308. If your going to hunt long range, you owe it to the animal to do it ethically by ensuring hits to the vitals at any range, and enough energy to put it down quickly.

For the time being I am sticking w/ .308. Many reasons for me: logistics (ALLOT of 7.62 ammo stored up), better bullet selection, want to develop more intimate knowledge on .308 (loading, ballistics, etc.) before becoming an expert on all.

I agree that there are better cartridges and if we were starting from scratch would probably end up w/ something closer to a .260. However, although a .260, 6.5 creed, etc. are slightly superior to a .308, they don't blow it away. For example:
A .308 w/ loaded up w/ a Hornady 180 gr. SST (BC=0.48) at 2500 fps would at 600 yards would drop 114" (come up 5.3 mils) and the velocity/energy would be 1554 fps/965 ft.-lb.
A .260 w/ loaded up w/ a Hornady 140 gr. SST (BC=0.52) at 2700 fps would at 600 yards would drop 92" (come up 4.3 mils) and the velocity/energy would be 1769 fps/972 ft.-lb.

Even with a ballistically superior bullet, the bullet drop is significant enough that the range has to be precisely known. With either cartridge, with proper shot placement, the bullet has enough energy to ethically take down the animal. Conversely, a gut shot w/ a 338 Lapua will not do the job.

I appreciate all comments, and from what I see here (and other posts on the 716) I think that this will be a better choice for me. It seems to be capable of sub MOA accuracy and is in a caliber that will do the job for me. I will spend some time with the rifle this summer & work up a load for it and determine my field accuracy w/ it. No doubt, a GAP is more accurate. But, i can't justify the $$$. Worst case, if the 716 does not have the accuracy I need, then someday I may graduate to a GAP.

 

[Outdoor play]

If you plan to shoot suppressed and you don't plan to shoot much further than 600 than I think the sig is a great choice. A couple friends and I set up clay pigeons at 550yds and go at them with our ar10 variants and we are all to the point that we don't miss hardly at all. Ya the dpms may not group as tight but for fun in the field at reasonable distances we don't hardly notice the difference between them.

Good luck

 

[Cobracutter]

If your going to stick with .308, just get a SCAR. Its a MOA gun, that is lighter, lower recoiling, more reliable, more ergonomic, and more versatile.

There is no reason to go over 16" in a .308, it will still be SS @ 1000 using the right ammo.

Trying to shoot .308 @ 600 yards to hunt is unwise and unethical IMO. If you are trying to put food on the table to survive, that is one thing, but for "sport" you owe the animal more. Its not just the energy, but the reduction in elevation and wind interference, that will push a bullet off target.

Hunting @ 600yds +, you really should be stepping up to 300 win mag , 7 Rem Mag or something that carries more energy at range. It will be more forgiving if your bullet placement is not spot on. Another reason to shoot .260, is its very similar to .300WM trajectories, while being cheaper, using less powder and less beating on your shoulder. a .260 would be a good practice gun for a .300MW hunting rig.

 

[cal50]

FN has horrible civvy customer service, proprietary magazines that are usually overpriced and unavailable and only dabbles in the retail / non government marketplace. A SCAR in any flavor would be my last choice of any of the other options available be it Sig, GAP. POF, Ruger, etc. Buying a rifle from a company that actually supports and seriously markets to the civvy sector is something to consider before dropping a wad.

.308 is not the latest and greatest but still does several things well and LOTS of brass and components available which is a plus and easier on the wallet.


Now time to test the new SIG 716.......

 

[230Ag]

but for "sport" you owe the animal more.

at the point you are killing an animal for "sport" - I think owing it anything becomes irrelevant. If you want to be fair to the animal, don't kill it for no reason. otherwise, kill it however you like. I have a hard time believing the animal is going to appreciate the fact that you killed it in a more decent manner even though it died for nothing.