Signs of case head seperation --- Need advice.

[rrflyer]

Just started reloading .308 again and went to resize and trim some brass tonight.

I had about 10-15 pieces of Black Hills Armory brass thats probably had 4 reloadings on them starting to show signs of case head separation. Mainly the brighter ring around the bottom of the case.

My load is 45gns varget and 175SMK's

I'm still fairly inexperienced with rifle re-loading. Is this something I should be concerned about

My Lapua brass that has just as many loads on it shows no signs.

 

[madd0c]

Re: Signs of case head seperation --- Need advice.

Bend the last 1/8" of a paperclip 90 degrees and use it to feel just above the case head INSIDE the case. If you feel a ridge there, toss the cases. That is a better indicator of impending case head seperation than the "bright ring" which can be caused in the sizing die.
On the other hand, if at anytime you ask "should I throw this case out", then the answer may be yes, especially in a .308 which has pretty inexpensive brass to replace.
The .338 may be another story, I sure hate to throw those out until I see definite problems.


madd0c

 

[Unsichtbar]

Re: Signs of case head seperation --- Need advice.

Min resize and anneal after every 4 or so firing, I have some lots of cases with 20+ firings. Reform primer pockets with Hart reformer and use "Magnum Russian Primers" Magnum in Russian primers just means they have a harder Brass cup. FYI lager Dia. than US primers.

If you see bright ring pitch them, your eye site is worth more than the cost of the case, of course wear safety glasses went shooting, I had a friend that came real close several years back.

 

[Unsichtbar]

Re: Signs of case head seperation --- Need advice.

I bet you are right

 

[jrob300]

Re: Signs of case head seperation --- Need advice.

I used to inspect my cases very carefully for external signs of stress... or "the bright ring". I was quite smug having come up with a far faster and simpler method for detecting incipient head separation. Then 2 days before a shoot, I had a case vent in the chamber. It separated over 75% around the case. Fortunately did not etch my chamber or punch my eye out.

I spent the next day and a half pulling bullets, emptying, paper clip checking, re-dropping powder and re-seating 230 rds. What a poignant lesson.

I check every case as soon as they come out of the tumbler now.

John

ETA: in my 300WM there are 4 distinct stages: no sign of stretch, slight radius, big radius, sharp edge. I refire all but the last.

 

[One_Man]

Re: Signs of case head seperation --- Need advice.

How do you tell the difference between case head seperation and a fireformed load? These are 1x fired, not sized Lapua brass. Case diameter measures .467" at the "ring." Checked with a paper clip. Could not feel any distinct ridges in them except maybe the first case on the left, felt a little rough, not smooth like the rest. The load was 47.0gr Varget, new Lapua brass, 210m, 125gr Berger FB, 2.750" COAL.

From Hodgdon's site:

125 GR. SIE SP Hodgdon
Varget .308" 2.700"
Starting 48.0 3049 42,400 CUP
Max 50.0C 3135 45,700 CUP

These had much louder muzzle blast (muzzle braked rifle) than my usual 175 SMK load of 43gr Varget. What do you guys think?



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Uploaded with ImageShack.us

 

[vman]

Re: Signs of case head seperation --- Need advice.

I may not be the best person to be discussing this as I havnt had any case heads seperate yet

However, I do use Lapua .308 brass and have noticed that even virgin unfired cases have a perceived bring ring around the case head. As stated above, sometimes FL sizing can leave a ring around the outside as well.

Its best feel the inside of the cases very carefully to see if your approaching any case head separation.

I would try the paperclip trick and have a look at your black hills ammo and test it out.

Better yet if you have any doubts at all cut one of the black hills cases in half and have a look for yourself... thats one way to find out 100% for sure

 

[Dreamweaver]

Re: Signs of case head seperation --- Need advice.

45gr of V doesn't sound hot so you must be over sizing them?

Is this for a bolt gun? If yes, set up the die by chamber checking them with firing pin removed.

~Mike

 

[RECKON SO]

Re: Signs of case head seperation --- Need advice.

If you are full length sizing every time you are most likely stretching the crap out of those cases and you dont have to do that. Ive learned using Norma brass (expensive for me) in a belted magnum that neck sizing is the way to go ,for a bolt gun at least. Every time you full length size you are moving "flowing" brass somewhere, that brass goes towards the neck area cause it cant go to the base. The brass that "flows" albeit very small amounts comes from the case just above the case head, this causes a thin area above the case head and in short manner with stout loads you have seperation. If I were to full length size every time I would be chunking cases far too often because my cases grow alot on the first firing "again belted magnum", and that would get way too expensive. You can neck size only and periodically check for cycling before re-working the brass and your cases should live alot longer cause your not moving that much brass when you work the case. When the case starts to get sticky during cycle testing just set your body or full lengy die to bump the shoulder enough to clear it up. A set of wilson case guages is real handy for this cause you can actually measure the case body per say, so when you get one thats sticky just put it in the case guage and measure it and you will have a sort of maximum tolerance to go by. Then you wont have to check them in the rifle, you can just plunk them in the guage and check as you work'em. This has drawbacks for semi auto's cause you risk a little bit of feed reliabilty just neck sizing, but there again in a bolt gun "provided your not hunting lions or dangerous game" you can take that risk cause you have the manual advantage to make sure it feeds. This is my understanding of it anyway.

 

[rrflyer]

Re: Signs of case head seperation --- Need advice.

I did the paper clip test and they all came out OK.

I guess it was just my new FL sizing die that was leaving the ring, I've always neck sized before.

I'm loading for a couple different rifles now so I full length size everytime, I know it works the brass a lot more but that still easier then keeping track of four diffeerent rifles brass.

 

[dragonjr45]

Re: Signs of case head seperation --- Need advice.

IMHO, if its questionable, either throw them away or find someone experienced to take a look. Lapua cases will last a lot longer than what Black Hills uses, so just because lapua cases are good to go with so many firings doesn't mean others will.

 

[Placebo]

Re: Signs of case head seperation --- Need advice.

can someone please throw up a pic of maybe what to look for and get rid of as I am just about to start reloading and I am very new to it. As always thanks in advance i will be reloading .308

 

[vman]

Re: Signs of case head seperation --- Need advice.

 

[KYpatriot]

Re: Signs of case head seperation --- Need advic

Best pic of these I've seen v-man. thanks

 

[Jeffvn]

Re: Signs of case head seperation --- Need advic

Good shot on the inside of the case. Here is another one of the outside of case head separations failure for your viewing pleasure.

 

[Placebo]

Re: Signs of case head seperation --- Need advic

Thanks so much guys. So appreciated.

 

[vman]

Re: Signs of case head seperation --- Need advic

Take note guys that this is what happens inside the case and may not always be clear if the cases are dirty and no attention given to the level of thinning out inside the case.

Discard bad cases before they seperate

 

[RECKON SO]

Re: Signs of case head seperation --- Need advic

I think pictures are worth more than a thousand words in this case. GOOD JOB on the illustrations!

 

[boltcatch]

Re: Signs of case head seperation --- Need advic

It'd be nice if some of the .223/5.56 guys could post some pics on those size cases... Maybe it's just me, but while I've never had one separate on me, I've seen it happen to others, and they seem to go about the lower 1/3 mark of the case, not all the way down by the head.

I paperclip every last piece of brass I size, since much of it started as 1x fired military brass. I get maybe 1 reject out of 150 pieces of 2-3 fired brass, but I found that I got fewer rejects if I adjusted the die to resize the brass to fit the rifles/gauges, rather than just cranking it down to the shell holder.

I've noticed that my case gauges are slightly different... brass that checks out in the Frankford Arsenal gauge might stick slightly or look a hair long in the Wilson Gauge. It'll still chamber and shoot great in my AR's regardless.

Some sets of my range brass have been fired 6-7 times. (I use an X-die). Out of 300 such pieces, I've lost 2 to split necks and 3 to incipient rings on the inside. None have needed trimming after the first trim.

 

[jthyttin]

Re: Signs of case head seperation --- Need advic

Vman, Jeffvn, thanks for the pics. I have some example cases put away but I never have got into taking photos.