Gunsmithing Skim bedding action prevent fliers?

[napavinetiger]

Hello all,

First off I'm new here so be easy, I recently got a savage 12fv in 6.5 CM for my first long range/ PRS club match build I put it in a HS Precision Pro Tactical stock, and I've finished load development and discounting fliers it shoots around 0.5 MOA with SDs of 5.3. My question is what's causing those fliers, I'm fairly certain it's not my shooting as I'm on bags when load testing but I'll shoot a five round group and have one shot that opens it up 1.2 MOA . From the little bit of research I've done I've come up with maybe skim bedding my action into my stock? Is there Merit to this? Any other helpful suggestions?

 

[spife7980]

There is merit to it... provided that the action to stock interface is actually the source of your fliers.

Its easy to bed a stock though, give it a try.

 

[ShtrRdy]

Which bullet are you using? Sometimes the bullet is to blame. Bedding shouldn't hurt anything if done right.

 

[napavinetiger]

Which bullet are you using? Sometimes the bullet is to blame. Bedding shouldn't hurt anything if done right.

I'm running a 147 gr ELD-M infront of 43.9 gr of H4831

 

[napavinetiger]

There is merit to it... provided that the action to stock interface is actually the source of your fliers.

Its easy to bed a stock though, give it a try.

Ya I'm not entirely sure is the problem I guess, I'm shooting a match tomorow and I have a new optic on the way thanks to the lovely PX, so I think I'll try bedding it after the match and just try to eliminate every variable I can

 

[napavinetiger]

I guess I should also clarify, my stock has a full length aluminum bedding block, so I cant pillar bed which is why I was wondering if skim bedding is reccomended

 

[spife7980]

I guess I should also clarify, my stock has a full length aluminum bedding block, so I cant pillar bed which is why I was wondering if skim bedding is reccomended

In that case its even easier, I would front recoil lug area in front of the magazine well and be done with it.

 

[TresMon]

Could be a host of things.

Put some kind of color on the bottom of the action... (a skim coat of vaseline mixed with food coloring, black grease, whatever) Carefully bolt it into the stock. Carefully remove it from the stock, and inspect the aluminum bedding. Did the color transfer uniformly from the action across the bedding block surfaces?

You messed with varying the torque on your action screws?

SD of 5.3.... as reported for what Chrono?

What level quality of powder scales do you have?

Quality of Calipers?

You using a ogive attachment on your calipers to measure OAL?

How is your bench technique, really?
I've cured A LOT of rifle's random fliers by closely watching a guy shoot off the bench at my home/shop and then informing them they have a minor flinch, or gently twitch a shoulder muscle during the press of the trigger, etc.

Does it have a great trigger(job)?

Are you sure you are establishing NPA & follow through?

Proper cheek weld and eliminating parallax?

Everything else tight? Scope base? Rings?

Is there something in the barrel channel of your stock creating an odd or intermittent pressure point?

Could it be the scope?


I'm an old Savage guru. I'd be happy to check it out for you.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

I would skim bed it, just on principle; but I'd also be prepared to find out that it didn't change much. I think the problem lies elsewhere; however, skim bedding comes in under what I'd consider crossing 'T's and dotting 'I's.

Guessing isn't troubleshooting.

You should build up a project list from the questions TM offers, then check each and every one out. Finding and fixing one thing does not rule out other issues. Do it right, be sure; you have an investment there, doing due diligence is warranted.

Greg

 

[NineHotel]

Cheap actions (read: Remington and Savage) are heat treated after machining. They are all warped to some degree; some worse than others.

Some sort of bedding is mandatory in many cases because of this, bedding block or no.

My 6mm tactical competition rifle has a particularly unstraight M700 action; properly bedded (in both an AICS and a McM A3/5 I have for it), the thing shoots 1/3 MOA; put it in a stock not bedded to the action, and it becomes a POI wandering, 1.33 MOA rifle.

 

[Holliday]

Hello all,

First off I'm new here so be easy, I recently got a savage 12fv in 6.5 CM for my first long range/ PRS club match build I put it in a HS Precision Pro Tactical stock, and I've finished load development and discounting fliers it shoots around 0.5 MOA with SDs of 5.3. My question is what's causing those fliers, I'm fairly certain it's not my shooting as I'm on bags when load testing but I'll shoot a five round group and have one shot that opens it up 1.2 MOA . From the little bit of research I've done I've come up with maybe skim bedding my action into my stock? Is there Merit to this? Any other helpful suggestions?

If the V-Block is good and the lug is hitting the back properly I would not bed just yet. Make sure the lug is not bottoming out and is free front and sides. Also what torque are you running on the action screws?

 

[Wannashootit]

As mentioned above, "toying" with action screw torque can produce measurable differences, particularly with Savages in my experience.
Stan Pate used to shoot F-Class for Savage- read his article, here:

https://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/savage-action-screw-torque-tuning/

Accuracy is achieved by getting the rifle to react exactly the same way, every shot- from barrel harmonics, to restricting movement of the action in the stock without inducing stress. Properly done, any bedding job- whether a skim or full pillar/bed, can never be detrimental to consistency IMO.
The key, though- is doing it correctly, so you don't make what might be well-fitted action into being stressed when you torque down on the action screws.
Not difficult as stated, plenty of info here and other sites.

 

[napavinetiger]

Thank you for all the replies, I'm planning on bedding my recoil lug this weekend and making sure everything is torqued to factory spec since I'm mounting up my new optic anyways, I will then try to shoot some groups with my rifle on bags so as to mitigate as much interference add possible and see what the outcome is

 

[Easy_E]

Did you shoot groups before installing the HS stock or shoot some factory ammo ? On the HS stock check bolt handle clearance and trigger clearance. I find Savage bolt handle angles vary slightly check them areas.

 

[napavinetiger]

Did you shoot groups before installing the HS stock or shoot some factory ammo ? On the HS stock check bolt handle clearance and trigger clearance. I find Savage bolt handle angles vary slightly check them areas.

Yes I did groups got better going to the hs precision stock however they were never great with factory match ammo, usually a little over an moa. All spaces appear to have sufficient clearance as I've ran the gun in some prs style matches and done alright, I'm going down the checklist to hopefully get it squared away this weekend

 

[Easy_E]

Yes I did groups got better going to the hs precision stock however they were never great with factory match ammo, usually a little over an moa. All spaces appear to have sufficient clearance as I've ran the gun in some prs style matches and done alright, I'm going down the checklist to hopefully get it squared away this weekend

It sounds like your heading in the right direction skim bedding is real simple and hopefully cure your fliers.

 

[Subwrx300]

Definitely agree that a light bedding should help a factory action. I have a custom Howa 1500 (Manners T4A, DBM and Criterion barrel). Before bedding (5-6000 rounds ago) it shot around .7-1moa and after bedding .5-7. After a recent barrel upgrade, it's shot even better until I recently starting getting vertical fliers.

I found a crack behind the pillar that had not been there after bedding 4000 rounds ago. So yes, no bedding, bad bedding or bedding failures can cause fliers and other odd crap. But done correctly, bedding can solve many of those...if they are the real culprit.

 

[napavinetiger]

Alright bedded the recoil lug and my new rail got new scope on and everything to proper torque spec going out tomorrow to see how she shoots and snap some gun porn for you helpful folks

 

[napavinetiger]

 

[napavinetiger]

Thanks to all for their advice I put up a picture of my rifle all done up and ready I shot some groups and accuracy has definitely improved and my flyer issue doesn't seem to exist anymore the picture of the group in the previous post is five shots and the group measures out at 0.486 inches needless to say I'm more than happy with That from a factory action and barrel