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Slide fire VS True Full Auto: One more controllable than the other?

varmint slayer

Area 419 OG
Full Member
Minuteman
Apr 17, 2010
1,273
10
NE, WY
Here's the deal. There is a local gun enthusiast group on Facebook and recently there has been a debate concerning slide fire stock vs a true full auto weapon. The debate is that a slide fire is easier to control recoil and muzzle rise vs a true full auto weapon. I don't have a ton of experience with true full auto weapons but I have dabbled a little. I have no experience with a slide fire stock so that is why I am asking you guys as I know there are a few of you out there that do. So the question is for you guys that have experience with both a slide fire stock and a full auto weapon. Which do you think is easier to handle as far as muzzle rise and recoil? These "professionals" on Facebook say that a slide fire is easier but I have a hard time believing that I would think that with some proper fundamental training in relation to full auto weapon handling and maneuvering would make the true full auto way easier to handle and be safe with. What is everybody else's thoughts on this?
 
I have run both full-auto and the slide fire and find that the slide fire will not work well in some situations as it requires a certain level of recoil impulse to operate properly. Given a choice, I would go with a full-auto over the slide-fire. Acuuracy suffers as well with the slide-fire. With the full-auto, the rifle is solidly pulled into your shoulder while the slide-fire you are both pulling and pushing the weapon.
 
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I recall seeing a thread not too long ago that covered this topic. Personally, I've only fired a M249 and M240 in training exercises, so that's the limit of my full auto experience.

Anyway, IIRC, the old thread agreed with your assumptions. Native full auto being easier than the Frankenstein contraption that is 'slide fire'.

=) Not that it makes any difference to me, I'm cheap and shoot in complete safety, so I send my rounds downrange one at a time.
 
I've shot both. I find the F/A gun way more controllable. I also found that the slidefire stock would not work that great on my normal upper, and I think that's due to the weight. I swapped out for a standard carbine upper with standard hard guards and it ran like a top.
 
I waiting for Eric Cartmann to arrive... We all know how much he loves the slidefire.
 
I own a full auto M16. It is really controllable.

I have shot a slide fire stock and had a bit more trouble keeping it on target due to the nature of the way you have to operate the rifle.

This is a video of me shooting the M16. As you can see I am relatively skinny guy and its super easy to control.

 
I own a full auto M16. It is really controllable.

I have shot a slide fire stock and had a bit more trouble keeping it on target due to the nature of the way you have to operate the rifle.

This is a video of me shooting the M16. As you can see I am relatively skinny guy and its super easy to control.



Wow yeah you made it look easy for sure.
 
The slide fire is an unsafe gimic. I'll be glad when it's forgotten about. That being said, a full auto M14T is more controllable
"ever shoot a machine gun on payode, shits bad ass man!" - J Recon
 
Running full auto on Peyote.....YES!! As for the original question. I have shot both and comparing full auto to a slidefire makes me wanna vomit. Need I say more?
 
Slidefire being anything is a joke.

Its a horrible POS, and not controllable - the whole design is rocking the gun back and forth instead of an autosear trip, do the math...

Yeah there is no doubt in my mind that a slide fire is less than ideal. I don't own one nor do I have the desire to. I was just curious as to how controllable it really was vs a true full auto setup. I pretty much made up my mind just looking at the design like you said. Lots of shit sliding back and forth at high speed can't be easier to control than just squeezing a trigger. Couple of local tools think they are experts and I just wanted to hear from guys that have shot both and their thoughts.
 
The slide fire is an unsafe gimic. I'll be glad when it's forgotten about. That being said, a full auto M14T is more controllable
"ever shoot a machine gun on payode, shits bad ass man!" - J Recon

sadly it will never go away. the mall ninja's love those things.
 
Slide fire is just another version of bump-fire.
In the earlier yrs when ammo was cheap and plentiful, guys bump-fired AKs and ARs from both at the hip and shoulder. Needless to say, in general, it's harder to control and accuracy is suffered compared to Go-Postal switch.
 
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Anybody who thinks the slide fire stock is safe is a retard. The slide fire works against every fundamental of proper shooting and works on uncontrolled recoil. I would have a field day bagging on these dipshits. "Experts" like these are why local shooting spots get closed down.
 
My range allows slide fire. They make the user complete the FA qual to get approval to use them.

I dont know if the qual requirement makes me feel good that the range is ensuring safety or puts the whole FA qual requirement process under suspicion.

I fear a slide fire equipped gun blowing up and maiming somebody or uncontrolled fire leaving the club. Personally I think they are dangerous and stupid but the libertarian in me says let Darwin sort it out.
 
I've not shot a slidefire but the design would dictate that it would not be nearly as controllable as a full auto. With the FA, you are firmly holding the rifle into your shoulder, and controlling the weapon at all times. With the slidefire, you are truly "bump firing," meaning you are pushing and pulling to get the trigger to trip.

Its a gimmick, a toy; nothing more, nothing less.
 
I recently fired both. If you want covering fire a true full auto is the one. The slide fire has to much work for it to function properly in a run and gun situation. The slide fire is just a toy for those that don't want to invest in the real thing and just sling rounds.
 
I've shot quite a few machineguns over the years, probably 30-50 different platforms in various calibers, ranging from AM-180s to M2HBs. I had the chance to shoot the original Akins Accelerator before it was shut down by ATF, and I've shot probably half a dozen SlideFire equipped ARs and AKs.

Plenty of people hate on the SlideFire SFS because of perceived safety aspects, or legal issues, or simply because they find it unseemly. From a technical perspective, the SlideFire works just fine if you put it on an in-spec rifle and operate it correctly. I've run them on 5.56, 9mm, 7.62x39, and 22LR AR-15s, and both 7.62 and 12ga AK platforms. It helps to have the rifle configured ergonomically to work with the SFS, so that it can be held and operated properly. From a safety perspective, the SFS doesn't do anything that a rifle isn't already doing - you're not going to have some sort of magical out-of-battery detonation by pulling the trigger "too soon". Anyone with a basic familiarity with semi-auto firearm design should be able to understand why that's just not possible.

From a tactical perspective, a direct comparison between say, a Colt R0977 with selector set to full, and a SlideFire SFS-equipped Colt LE6920, you'd find that most shooters could probably get a higher percentage of rounds on target with a magazine dump from the R0977 select-fire rifle, with all else being held equal. The ability to selectively discharge a certain number of rounds in a single burst is going to be equally easier with the R0977, since there's less movement required in a trigger finger versus an entire arm. That being said, an experienced shooter with the LE6920 who's practiced using the SFS would easily out-score a relatively inexperienced individual using the R0977.

It occurs to me that a fair amount of the inaccuracy perception may also be related to the fact that most SlideFire owners and shooters have never really had any experience with automatic weapons before, and probably aren't receiving any instruction in their use when they first shoot the SlideFire. Essentially no one ever learns how to shoot a legal automatic weapon by simply picking one up and blasting away - there's almost always other individuals around who already know how to shoot it. The 86 ban ensures that owners of NFA-registered automatics have a vested interest in protecting their property and keeping it safe, so there tends to be a rather higher level of safety and knowledge in the vicinity of NFA machineguns. The same cannot always be said for the SlideFire, but ultimately you cannot fault the product nor the concept for that fact.

For what it's worth, I know several NFA collectors who still find the SlideFire to be plenty enjoyable, and who wind up shooting it nearly as much as their registered MGs. I've had guys with collections worth hundreds of thousands of dollars tell me "Why should I buy another $20,000 machinegun when this $300 SlideFire is just as fun?" And ultimately, they do have a point. When NFA ownership is out of reach for the majority of shooters, the SFS is a tempting and enjoyable alternative. It may never be as valuable, effective, or sexy as owning the real thing, but it's still fun for most. Deriding that fact is ultimately nothing more than gun snobbery, like it or not.
 
I've shot quite a few machineguns over the years, probably 30-50 different platforms in various calibers, ranging from AM-180s to M2HBs. I had the chance to shoot the original Akins Accelerator before it was shut down by ATF, and I've shot probably half a dozen SlideFire equipped ARs and AKs.

Plenty of people hate on the SlideFire SFS because of perceived safety aspects, or legal issues, or simply because they find it unseemly. From a technical perspective, the SlideFire works just fine if you put it on an in-spec rifle and operate it correctly. I've run them on 5.56, 9mm, 7.62x39, and 22LR AR-15s, and both 7.62 and 12ga AK platforms. It helps to have the rifle configured ergonomically to work with the SFS, so that it can be held and operated properly. From a safety perspective, the SFS doesn't do anything that a rifle isn't already doing - you're not going to have some sort of magical out-of-battery detonation by pulling the trigger "too soon". Anyone with a basic familiarity with semi-auto firearm design should be able to understand why that's just not possible.

From a tactical perspective, a direct comparison between say, a Colt R0977 with selector set to full, and a SlideFire SFS-equipped Colt LE6920, you'd find that most shooters could probably get a higher percentage of rounds on target with a magazine dump from the R0977 select-fire rifle, with all else being held equal. The ability to selectively discharge a certain number of rounds in a single burst is going to be equally easier with the R0977, since there's less movement required in a trigger finger versus an entire arm. That being said, an experienced shooter with the LE6920 who's practiced using the SFS would easily out-score a relatively inexperienced individual using the R0977.

It occurs to me that a fair amount of the inaccuracy perception may also be related to the fact that most SlideFire owners and shooters have never really had any experience with automatic weapons before, and probably aren't receiving any instruction in their use when they first shoot the SlideFire. Essentially no one ever learns how to shoot a legal automatic weapon by simply picking one up and blasting away - there's almost always other individuals around who already know how to shoot it. The 86 ban ensures that owners of NFA-registered automatics have a vested interest in protecting their property and keeping it safe, so there tends to be a rather higher level of safety and knowledge in the vicinity of NFA machineguns. The same cannot always be said for the SlideFire, but ultimately you cannot fault the product nor the concept for that fact.

For what it's worth, I know several NFA collectors who still find the SlideFire to be plenty enjoyable, and who wind up shooting it nearly as much as their registered MGs. I've had guys with collections worth hundreds of thousands of dollars tell me "Why should I buy another $20,000 machinegun when this $300 SlideFire is just as fun?" And ultimately, they do have a point. When NFA ownership is out of reach for the majority of shooters, the SFS is a tempting and enjoyable alternative. It may never be as valuable, effective, or sexy as owning the real thing, but it's still fun for most. Deriding that fact is ultimately nothing more than gun snobbery, like it or not.


There's no way you can convince anybody with an ounce of common sense that a weapon where you have less control of the recoil in order to function is more accurate or even close. It's not gun snobbery when you have to deal with evaders of natural selection at the range who buy shit like this and then start with the run and gun bullshit which is unsafe not because of the platform but because of the retard behind it. Are there a few people out there who use them successfully and for fun in lieu of a NFA full auto... sure. But as you said, anyone who actually knows what the fuck they're doing in the first place will still be more accurate with a full auto. And comparing a person with knowledge shooting a less accurate platform to a person with zero knowledge shooting a more accurate platform in and of itself is asinine.
 
Some pretty valid points Arbiter.

No they aren't. It's the same bullshit that gets thrown out every time where they think they're being hated on for not spending the bank on a full auto. It's never about the fact of why or who is the one using them. People want to waste ammo and have fun then great, but don't try to peddle the bullshit that the platform is just as accurate to justify it when it's not.
 
There's no way you can convince anybody with an ounce of common sense that a weapon where you have less control of the recoil in order to function is more accurate or even close. It's not gun snobbery when you have to deal with evaders of natural selection at the range who buy shit like this and then start with the run and gun bullshit which is unsafe not because of the platform but because of the retard behind it. Are there a few people out there who use them successfully and for fun in lieu of a NFA full auto... sure. But as you said, anyone who actually knows what the fuck they're doing in the first place will still be more accurate with a full auto. And comparing a person with knowledge shooting a less accurate platform to a person with zero knowledge shooting a more accurate platform in and of itself is asinine.

Please point out for me where I ever said that a SFS is going to be as accurate as a selective-fire rifle. Hint: I didn't. Your position that the SlideFire is terrible because it gets used poorly by those who shouldn't possess it is the exact same argument used by gun control groups as to why we shouldn't own firearms in general. Equating the tool with the fool is an old logical fallacy, and still remains so.

As far as accuracy itself is concerned, my point is this: It takes skill to be accurate with a machinegun or a SlideFire. Either way, knowledge of certain fundamentals are required in order to be safe and hit the target with any degree of consistency. I'm not trying to sell a SlideFire - I don't even own one myself - but acting hostile to people because of an irrational hatred of an inanimate object is a classic characteristic of someone who doesn't trust others to own dangerous things. Generally those people hang out on DU, and tend to vote for politicians who would be all too happy to eliminate the threat of being able to choose for yourself what to buy and enjoy.

No they aren't. It's the same bullshit that gets thrown out every time where they think they're being hated on for not spending the bank on a full auto. It's never about the fact of why or who is the one using them. People want to waste ammo and have fun then great, but don't try to peddle the bullshit that the platform is just as accurate to justify it when it's not.

I don't own a SlideFire, nor do I have any plans to do so. I don't own any machineguns either (although I might someday try to pick up a Lage MAX-11 conversion). I've sold both of them for years, however, and what I have is a modest degree of experience here and there, enough so to think that I might just have a bare glimmer of a clue as to what I'm talking about. You can continue to attack the strawman that I'm claiming SlideFires are accurate, but you're wasting your time. Those who have shot a variety of machineguns will understand what accuracy means in regards to full auto usage, and the limitations thereof. I remember bringing someone to Knob Creek for the first time, and her first reaction to looking at the main line: "But what are they all aiming for?!?" And I remember the genuine puzzled reaction of an old veteran machinegun shooter standing nearby: "What do you mean by aiming?"
 
Please point out for me where I ever said that a SFS is going to be as accurate as a selective-fire rifle. Hint: I didn't. Your position that the SlideFire is terrible because it gets used poorly by those who shouldn't possess it is the exact same argument used by gun control groups as to why we shouldn't own firearms in general. Equating the tool with the fool is an old logical fallacy, and still remains so.

It's not a tool but a gimmick use to circumvent NFA laws. And you like everyone else want to turn ANYTHING that someone says against a particular firearm/modification into the same argument that it's just like"gun control groups" because heaven forbid someone ever sound like a proponent for gun control from retards. Same argument and same bullshit scare tactic...


As far as accuracy itself is concerned, my point is this: It takes skill to be accurate with a machinegun or a SlideFire. Either way, knowledge of certain fundamentals are required in order to be safe and hit the target with any degree of consistency. I'm not trying to sell a SlideFire - I don't even own one myself - but acting hostile to people because of an irrational hatred of an inanimate object is a classic characteristic of someone who doesn't trust others to own dangerous things. Generally those people hang out on DU, and tend to vote for politicians who would be all too happy to eliminate the threat of being able to choose for yourself what to buy and enjoy.

Lol... and it's not like you referred to any of us as gun snobs or haters. Your "irrational" is my "common sense". If you think any person no matter what should be able to own whatever they feel like then you're an idiot... no really. And here you go again with the political references because like all other retards that's your goto gimmick in an attempt to shut down an argument that you can't win. You better go buy some more 22lr for the next Zombie apocalypse...


I don't own a SlideFire, nor do I have any plans to do so. I don't own any machineguns either (although I might someday try to pick up a Lage MAX-11 conversion). I've sold both of them for years, however, and what I have is a modest degree of experience here and there, enough so to think that I might just have a bare glimmer of a clue as to what I'm talking about. You can continue to attack the strawman that I'm claiming SlideFires are accurate, but you're wasting your time. Those who have shot a variety of machineguns will understand what accuracy means in regards to full auto usage, and the limitations thereof. I remember bringing someone to Knob Creek for the first time, and her first reaction to looking at the main line: "But what are they all aiming for?!?" And I remember the genuine puzzled reaction of an old veteran machinegun shooter standing nearby: "What do you mean by aiming?"

You think because you've sold them that it makes you experienced with the platform? Lmao... More like you're trying to protect your interests.

Try again... but this time why don't you try removing the hypocrisy and bullshit character comment which are nothing more than gimmicks... You'd think for someone in sales you could sell something better.
 
Try again... but this time why don't you try removing the hypocrisy and bullshit character comment which are nothing more than gimmicks... You'd think for someone in sales you could sell something better.

Your words speak for themselves, as do mine. I have no doubt that the majority of the people on this forum are intelligent enough to tell the difference. Experience and rationality tend to be of greater utility than emotion and scorn.
 
Your words speak for themselves, as do mine. I have no doubt that the majority of the people on this forum are intelligent enough to tell the difference. Experience and rationality tend to be of greater utility than emotion and scorn.

You talk of emotion and scorn which has to do do with one's belief or contempt of something as if you're above it and yet it's you that went straight to referring to others with shit like "Generally those people hang out on DU, and tend to vote for politicians who would be all too happy to eliminate the threat of being able to choose for yourself what to buy and enjoy." which means you're either the pot or the kettle. Of course you'll come back with another bullshit answer of how you honestly think you're not implying anything other than logic. But the fact still remains when you have to resort to insinuations of the other parties political affiliations in order to try and win an argument over something menial like a slidefire then you obviously had no rational response so you went with the what you assumed would trigger a defensive mechanism since no one wants to be lumped in with "gun control groups" or politicians. Unlike a lot of of other lemmings I'll gladly say there are plenty of idiots out there who I don't think should be allowed to own or possess a squirt gun none the less a slidefire.