Re: Slings used on M4 rifles in Iraq / Afghanistan?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dzhitshard</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"When working in and around tight spaces where it is unfeasible for the rifle to be slung, use rubber bands to attach the excess sling to the butt stock. This will keep your weapon from catching on the hundred things that will snag your sling at the most inopportune time. "
Yes sir. That's a gem.
My slight mod is that I don't use the rubber bands any more. I secure a CAT to my butt stock with a 10" shock cord loop. Figure 8 it to secure the TQ. When needed I stuff the sling webbing up in there to manage the slack & prevent grabbers.
cs1983
That link isn't a bad start point. I know, like, & have shot with Zack but am cautious & find myself leery of taking some of his stuff at face value when it comes to gunfighting gear etc. In this case I know he consulted with Jeff & the information may be dated but it was pretty accurate for the time. (except, IMO, missing that tac slings of several designs have been around for 100+ years
)
Here's another mini article from the same time frame that also may be useful.
http://www.03designgroup.com/technotes/tactical-slings-for-the-carbine FWIW, I'd advise any against looking at pictures of Lamb, Vickers etc & deciding to parrot them until you understand why they do things in xyz manner. Example, (LAV from pics in the link I posted) is cross dominant & shoots his long gun opposite side of his pistol so a fella may not achieve maximum efficiency following his set up.
For your quote:
"what then, would you want the average guy to use his sling for? Sling in all snipery like? Please, there is rarely enough time or reason for the average dude on the ground to have any reason for a sling but to retain his weapon. The Army, on average, gets no training on use of a sling outside of that"
Don't take this personally but with 2 deployments & still holding this opinion: you yourself are part of the "Army" problem. The answers are out there. You can fix this & make a difference down the line.
Wearing the flag on your right arm & walking patrol doesn't make you a gunfighter. It makes you a great American who deserves to stand proud back home & enjoy the fruits of our nation.
There's some good info out there but the internet can't make you a gunfighter. Solid mentors & instructors can go a long way to taking someone there though if that's the path that they would want to walk.
Good luck
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I'm sorry if you misunderstood me mentioning my deployments as anything other than my own experience with two types of slings. I certainly do not claim any authority on anything other that what I've personally experienced.
If I understand what you are getting at, you are saying that because I recognize the initial training and sustainment of the skills associated with sling use outside of weapon retention is lacking, I am part of some problem? Hold your horses there, guy. If anyone in my prior units got fed up with and tried to lobby addressing Big Army BRM and advanced follow on training, it was me.
I fully recognize the system for the Big Army is rather broken and when I was still in, I tried to pass along what little I knew regarding implementation of proper techniques and alternatives to the way things are taught across the board.
You can wax poetically all you want and skirt the issue, but, the core issue is- the average guy in the fight is lucky to even get 1k rounds through his rifle in a year CONUS. 18 to zero, 40 to qual ( if he even does that first time go) and do that 2X a year. Various ranges here and there throughout, but, not much. 3-gun civilian competitors sling more lead in a weekend than the average guy does in a year.
You're suggesting that somehow Big Army should take people and make them all highly proficient. Well, until the Army gets its head out of its ass and starts looking over to the USMC on marksmanship sustainment training, it ain't gonna happen.
The OP was simply asking what slings are in use in Iraq and A'stan. The simple answer to that is- there ain't a simple answer. As you and others have pointed out, there is simply no go to hardcore definitive answer.
Not quite sure what you're trying to prove with the little gunfighter stab. Poor form, poor taste. I expect better of anyone wishing to engage in meaningful conversation. Passive-Aggressive ad-hominem ain't cutting the mustard. Please consider where I am coming from on this. Frankly, you have no friggin clue who I am, where I've been, what I've done, or anything else outside of what I choose to put on this forum. I'm not some high speed snake eater but, still... PID bro. I did not take it "there", and I would expect someone wishing to be viewed as a professional to do the same.
I asked you a simple thing: list what the average guy on the ground needs and can use within the scope of his training ( on average) and list examples as such. You have failed to do this. Instead you wrote some long soliloquy culminating in some completely off topic paragraph about how it's my turn to sit at the VFW. WTF? There is no reason to obfuscate the issue in this thread.
I posted the link to Zak's site not as an insinuation that he is the end-all authority, but to give the OP some more information to go off of and continue his search.
I'm still waiting on a simple list with examples that pertain to the average guy on the ground. I could care less what SF, Rangers, SEALs, or even 67th BFSB do in the context of the OP's question and how it relates to what I specifically said. Those types are not the average guy on the ground.
You are certainly welcome to get with me through PM if you wish to dick measure. Don't worry, I'm sure you'll win. However, still waiting on the quantification of how I have supplied disinformation as it relates to the <span style="font-weight: bold">average</span> guy on the ground.
