Small base sizing die for the 6mm Creed
- Thread starter Big Moose
- Start date
You shouldn’t need one if you adjust your die for correct shoulder bump. Unless the chamber in your rifle is cut excessively tight.
Same parent case as a 6.5 CM, case so a 6.5 Creed small base die would size the body down, then you would have to size the necks in a seperate step.
So? Did someone tell you gas guns always need small base does? If so, they were wrong.
No, they haven't, I run an SB die for my 556 guns. Some people say it's a good idea.
If you bought a 6mm Creedmoor for precision, then a SB die is a step backwards and is not a good idea. It's also unnecessary in a gas gun, despite what "some people" say.
Small base dies are fine when adjusted correctly. They are not needed but they are insurance. Chambers get dirty and brass has spring back.
@Big Moose I would go for a bushing small base die
@Big Moose I would go for a bushing small base die
....a SB die set isn't always needed, but there can be instances where an individual rifle may require it. The only way to determine if needed would to test fired cases from that rifle to see if they will chamber properly after bumping the shoulder back. There are cases where a failure to chamber properly was misdiagnosed as requiring SB sizing when in reality it was a case of shoulder bump not being sufficient. Also, if a casing that has sufficient shoulder bump but encounters difficulty extracting when the round has not been fired, i.e., requires "mortaring" or excessive force on the charging handle, then that can be an indicator that SB sizing is required for that particualr barrel/chamber (assuming the bullet isn't seated too long and jamming into the lands).
...for new reloaders of gas guns, use of a FL/SB die set is commonly recommended to avoid any potential chambering issues, or at least eliminate one aspect of the reloading process, until they gain more knowledge and experience in reloading. If that new reloader experiences too much frustration early on, it could lead to them abandoning reloading and a financial loss if they sell off the reloading equipment, especially if it's high quality, high dollar equipment they bought based on internet suggestions......
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....and let's not forget that the "timing" of a gas system can also affect the brass....improper timing that causes "early unlocking/extraction" can cause that fired shell to be expanded enough that it's oversized to that chamber, unlike bolt actions where the fired casing is normally in the chamber longer and all pressure has dropped.
@Big Moose You dont normally need one, gas gun or no gas gun that is simply BS.
But you MAY need one if cases fired a few times from one rifle that may not chamber in another even after FL resizing.
Then you need one other than that stick with a standard FL sizing die.
But you MAY need one if cases fired a few times from one rifle that may not chamber in another even after FL resizing.
Then you need one other than that stick with a standard FL sizing die.
And guns are loud and the sky is blue, but the “need” for SB dies in gas guns is almost completely an old wives tale, other than exceptions already noted above.
SB dies are not harmless, they do affect accuracy and brass life, and using or recommending them where they are not needed is counterproductive.
....to the OP, if you are not reloading for your 6creed gasser yet but have fired cases from it, I'd suggest you take measurements of the headspace and case web dimensions from multiple cases, especially if brass is from different lots/manufacturers. You can contact the various manufacturers (both mass producers and custom producers) and inquire what the dimensions of their dies are made to. Compare their responses to the data you collected off your fired brass. If you find a good match, go for it, or......you can contact them and ask if they can produce a die that matches the specific measurements of your fired brass.....your decision.
Edited: Also compare your fired brass measurements to the SAAMI specs diagrams ( https://saami.org/technical-information/cartridge-chamber-drawings/ ) , can be helpful if a die maker responds with "our dies are to SAAMI Specs"...the question is if it's SAAMI Spec "minimum" or "maximum"..
Edited: Also compare your fired brass measurements to the SAAMI specs diagrams ( https://saami.org/technical-information/cartridge-chamber-drawings/ ) , can be helpful if a die maker responds with "our dies are to SAAMI Specs"...the question is if it's SAAMI Spec "minimum" or "maximum"..
Sure, the end of the world, that’s what I said for sure.
You do realize that body diameter has some affect on bullet alignment in the chamber, I hope?
Forster’s own wording you linked to says they are “sometimes needed”, not that they are generally a good idea or “insurance”.
I swear, some of you would rather throw band aids and “insurance” at your rifles and equipment than tune them right and get the most out of them.
When you push brass into a die it does not shrink or get pushed back to its original size, it gets extruded like
squeezing putty in your hand. The displaced brass has to go somewhere and for the most part moves forward.
That's the reason you have to trim it.
Using a small base die puts the brass through a tighter "squeeze" unnecessarily working the brass that
will require trimming more often and reducing case life considerably.
Another thing is accuracy, why do people fire-form their cases to the particular rifles chamber? They want the case
aligned as possible to the bore.
@Yondering
If you think the body aligns the bullets in the chamber.
Then what does the Freebore do?
Also a prime example is factory ammo is that sized perfectly to every barrel? Yet plently of guys are using it and with great results in accuracy.
@whatsupdoc
As a user of SB dies I can say my primer pockets wear out faster than the case head separation that occurs over the life of sizing and trimming.
Alignment in occurs in the Freebore of a chamber not the body or neck.
If you think the body aligns the bullets in the chamber.
Then what does the Freebore do?
Also a prime example is factory ammo is that sized perfectly to every barrel? Yet plently of guys are using it and with great results in accuracy.
@whatsupdoc
As a user of SB dies I can say my primer pockets wear out faster than the case head separation that occurs over the life of sizing and trimming.
Alignment in occurs in the Freebore of a chamber not the body or neck.
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Then why is excessive runout in loaded rounds bad? It's easily proven to hurt accuracy. I don't think you understand this as much as you claim, and are just defending SB dies because you chose to use them, and of course that choice "can't" be wrong...
Find some statically significant data that shows runout is linked to accuracy. And excessive runout define that as well.
I'll leave this video for you to view
I used to think the same way you do. But after cutting out many steps in my reloading process. With no loss in accuracy or ES. I learned what actually matters. When I started removing steps.
I use both types of dies each has a application.
But yet I see factory ammo putting up consistent 1/2 min groups.
I'll leave this video for you to view
I used to think the same way you do. But after cutting out many steps in my reloading process. With no loss in accuracy or ES. I learned what actually matters. When I started removing steps.
I use both types of dies each has a application.
But yet I see factory ammo putting up consistent 1/2 min groups.
