I am wondering if anyone has really pushed the new small rifle primed Lapua .308 cases yet? I typically shoot 45gr of Varget with 168 SMKs in my TRG-22 and I'm not showing bad pressure signs, but the primer pockets tend to be loosening more than I would like. The idea behind this case is it gives you more strength at the primer pocket right? Are there any inconsistencies introduced when using these cases compared to standard Lapua? Thanks
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Re: Small Rifle Primed Lapua .308
Sir,
I think might be the idea some have and with some merit, but not the original intention in my opinion.
The original intention of the standard case/small primer is likely more about accuracy, smaller less powerful primer/more consistant ignition. Hope being more consistant velocity. This was done years ago with the Remington 308 BR cases. I think these new Lapua cases are made up for Palma shooters and they will get/have gotten the first ones.
I do not think much will improve with them and they will be dropped. JMO
Sir,
I think might be the idea some have and with some merit, but not the original intention in my opinion.
The original intention of the standard case/small primer is likely more about accuracy, smaller less powerful primer/more consistant ignition. Hope being more consistant velocity. This was done years ago with the Remington 308 BR cases. I think these new Lapua cases are made up for Palma shooters and they will get/have gotten the first ones.
I do not think much will improve with them and they will be dropped. JMO
Re: Small Rifle Primed Lapua .308
Small match primers = less flair at ignition. It makes for a more uniform, less violent ignition of the powder collumn.
Small match primers = less flair at ignition. It makes for a more uniform, less violent ignition of the powder collumn.
Re: Small Rifle Primed Lapua .308
They have the small flash holes. And the above are correct that they designed it for a more uniform burn and more consistency. I'll be getting some brass around the end of June.
They have the small flash holes. And the above are correct that they designed it for a more uniform burn and more consistency. I'll be getting some brass around the end of June.
Re: Small Rifle Primed Lapua .308
This was done experimentally a long time back, and very heavily researched. It fell into disuse when outcomes could be duplicated using standard sized primers. However, news spreads slowly, and a market developed for the product anyway.
Greg
This was done experimentally a long time back, and very heavily researched. It fell into disuse when outcomes could be duplicated using standard sized primers. However, news spreads slowly, and a market developed for the product anyway.
Greg
Re: Small Rifle Primed Lapua .308
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This was done experimentally a long time back, and very heavily researched. It fell into disuse when outcomes could be duplicated using standard sized primers. However, news spreads slowly, and a market developed for the product anyway.
Greg </div></div>
That's my understanding. Originally Remington made some Small Primer .308Win brass so they could be reformed into BR (30BR, 6BR, etc). I read that Palma shooters used this SP .308Win brass to do comparative load development. I gather the results using the SP brass wasn't any better (or not better enough) than LP brass to warrant further development. Also, there was some discussion about the insufficient/marginal brisance of the Small Primer during less than ideal conditions.
That Small Primer though might take pressure better.....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This was done experimentally a long time back, and very heavily researched. It fell into disuse when outcomes could be duplicated using standard sized primers. However, news spreads slowly, and a market developed for the product anyway.
Greg </div></div>
That's my understanding. Originally Remington made some Small Primer .308Win brass so they could be reformed into BR (30BR, 6BR, etc). I read that Palma shooters used this SP .308Win brass to do comparative load development. I gather the results using the SP brass wasn't any better (or not better enough) than LP brass to warrant further development. Also, there was some discussion about the insufficient/marginal brisance of the Small Primer during less than ideal conditions.
That Small Primer though might take pressure better.....
Re: Small Rifle Primed Lapua .308
I would think that Lapua has research it some. Most of thier products is above the standard in brass. I shoot a lot of Lapua components. If they are saying it will work better for SDs. It will be something to experiment with. Small primers is suppose to have more beneifits to this.
It would be worth a try but I would not buy a bunch of brass at first.
I would think that Lapua has research it some. Most of thier products is above the standard in brass. I shoot a lot of Lapua components. If they are saying it will work better for SDs. It will be something to experiment with. Small primers is suppose to have more beneifits to this.
It would be worth a try but I would not buy a bunch of brass at first.
Re: Small Rifle Primed Lapua .308
Small primer Palma brass has some down sides if you are using for a Tac rifle application IMO, positive ignition in bad weather. Even some of the top Palma guys question the benifits of course some really like it. German Salaza link below,
http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/2010/01/cartridges-lapua-small-primer-308.html
If what you are looking for is to eliminate enlarged primer pockets and not working the brass hard. There are powders and loads the provide equal to or better preformance without working the brass hard. I fought that your years reforming primer pockets every 4th firing. Imr 8208xbr has solved that for me, better velocities, no flattened primers no enlarged primer pockets. You can find several threads on SH also http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2010/03/imr-8208-xbr-performs-well-in-308-win-testing/ note he is shooting an Ultra tight chamber and bore, my loads are quite a bit more in a Palma 95 chamber, which is not a loose chamber
Small primer Palma brass has some down sides if you are using for a Tac rifle application IMO, positive ignition in bad weather. Even some of the top Palma guys question the benifits of course some really like it. German Salaza link below,
http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/2010/01/cartridges-lapua-small-primer-308.html
If what you are looking for is to eliminate enlarged primer pockets and not working the brass hard. There are powders and loads the provide equal to or better preformance without working the brass hard. I fought that your years reforming primer pockets every 4th firing. Imr 8208xbr has solved that for me, better velocities, no flattened primers no enlarged primer pockets. You can find several threads on SH also http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2010/03/imr-8208-xbr-performs-well-in-308-win-testing/ note he is shooting an Ultra tight chamber and bore, my loads are quite a bit more in a Palma 95 chamber, which is not a loose chamber
Re: Small Rifle Primed Lapua .308
Deleted in protest
Deleted in protest
Re: Small Rifle Primed Lapua .308
This is insane, the OP has a question about small primer .308 brass to push a 168 SMK, don't tell me to a 1000 yds, right. First off 168 smk don't work, they were designed for 300 ISU comps. its the degree of the boat tail.
The small primer brass has been run thru the ringer, if it is of any benifit there are only a few shooters that can benifit from it, one of them is German Salazar and he took a pass. He would do anything to improve his score. There are some that think there is some benifit, great if it works for them.
Go shoot learn to call the wind, small primer brass is not going to do anything for you. If you are a High Master Palma shooter, that's someone who can shoot 98% consistantly, maybe it with get you that 1 pt you need in a season. If you want to spend some money get a bullet pointer, that might by you a minute. Being able able to call the wind will get you alot more.
This is insane, the OP has a question about small primer .308 brass to push a 168 SMK, don't tell me to a 1000 yds, right. First off 168 smk don't work, they were designed for 300 ISU comps. its the degree of the boat tail.
The small primer brass has been run thru the ringer, if it is of any benifit there are only a few shooters that can benifit from it, one of them is German Salazar and he took a pass. He would do anything to improve his score. There are some that think there is some benifit, great if it works for them.
Go shoot learn to call the wind, small primer brass is not going to do anything for you. If you are a High Master Palma shooter, that's someone who can shoot 98% consistantly, maybe it with get you that 1 pt you need in a season. If you want to spend some money get a bullet pointer, that might by you a minute. Being able able to call the wind will get you alot more.
Re: Small Rifle Primed Lapua .308
No offense, but please re-read the OP. The question was about small primer pockets, and not about small base brass.
I base my commentary on individual conversation with G. David Tubb, who was one of the original proponents of small primer pocketed brass.
There was no mention of distances in the OP.
Greg
No offense, but please re-read the OP. The question was about small primer pockets, and not about small base brass.
I base my commentary on individual conversation with G. David Tubb, who was one of the original proponents of small primer pocketed brass.
There was no mention of distances in the OP.
Greg
Re: Small Rifle Primed Lapua .308
My error I ment to say small primer .308 brass, I corrected in post. While no mention of distance, I took it to 1000 yd because that is were some benifit might be seen, if any, even less at shorter distance, thanks for catching my error.
My error I ment to say small primer .308 brass, I corrected in post. While no mention of distance, I took it to 1000 yd because that is were some benifit might be seen, if any, even less at shorter distance, thanks for catching my error.
Re: Small Rifle Primed Lapua .308
Glad to be of help. You're very welcome.
Greg
Glad to be of help. You're very welcome.
Greg
Re: Small Rifle Primed Lapua .308
Tubb used to use the original Remington UBR brass, which had a small primer pocket, but it also had really thin case walls, allowing a lot of flexibility in charging the load without having pressure issues.
As to why Remington released it, I have read that they never intended it to be used for .308... They wanted to get something to market quickly that could be used for benchrest. Rather than tailoring specific to a particular BR cartridge, they made a 308 casing with the intention that it would be necked down... which again, is why it was so thin... when you neck it down, the necks will thicken it up.
At least, that is what I have read, but I haven't talked to any original sources that were involved in the UBR Brass Development.
As for Lapua's reasons, well, you can read their marketing materials. Is it better? Who knows? I bought some... it's worth a try.
Tubb used to use the original Remington UBR brass, which had a small primer pocket, but it also had really thin case walls, allowing a lot of flexibility in charging the load without having pressure issues.
As to why Remington released it, I have read that they never intended it to be used for .308... They wanted to get something to market quickly that could be used for benchrest. Rather than tailoring specific to a particular BR cartridge, they made a 308 casing with the intention that it would be necked down... which again, is why it was so thin... when you neck it down, the necks will thicken it up.
At least, that is what I have read, but I haven't talked to any original sources that were involved in the UBR Brass Development.
As for Lapua's reasons, well, you can read their marketing materials. Is it better? Who knows? I bought some... it's worth a try.
Re: Small Rifle Primed Lapua .308
yeah I had to drag this post back up. Unfortunately I don't get to shoot to 1K very often, but the reason I load "hot" is it seems my TRG shoots WAY better loaded stiff than just a middling load. It will group 1/4" to 1/2" regularly with the loads that loosen primer pockets after 4 or so cycles of the brass, but when I load lighter and the pockets last, the groups open up to 3/4" or more. How well do the reverse primer pocket swagers work? Do they actually extend the life of your brass that much?
yeah I had to drag this post back up. Unfortunately I don't get to shoot to 1K very often, but the reason I load "hot" is it seems my TRG shoots WAY better loaded stiff than just a middling load. It will group 1/4" to 1/2" regularly with the loads that loosen primer pockets after 4 or so cycles of the brass, but when I load lighter and the pockets last, the groups open up to 3/4" or more. How well do the reverse primer pocket swagers work? Do they actually extend the life of your brass that much?
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