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Gunsmithing Smith and Wesson Customer service sucks.

Prebanpaul

Prebanpaul

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Jan 2, 2009
2,260
709
Akron Ohio Summit
So I have a Smith and Wesson 1911 with standard sights. I have a mgw sight pusher. I took the back sight off pretty easy. The front sight would not budge. At all.

I tried using the sight pusher, then a brass punch with a little brass hammer, then a steel punch with a little brass hammer, then a steel punch and a 5 lbs small sledge. Honestly I do not think I move the sight at all.


I then wrote Smith and Wesson and asked them if they could perform the work. Mind you have I have 4 smith scandium pistols, and about 30 more of their wheel guns and M and P variations. This was their response to me.


***********************************************************************************************

Dear Customer,

You'd be better off having a local gunsmith do that for you. We've got a long turnaround time for non-warranty repair work. We can absolutely do it for you, but I don't think you want it in here for roughly 12 weeks just to have a sight put on.

Use the link below to see if you have a Smith & Wesson Armorer in your area:

Dealer Search Results - Smith & Wesson

Sincerely,

**************************************************************************************************************


Really if I did not want you to do it, I would have not asked you how I go about sending it back to you. Further more I asked a price and you could not even include that in your response. Then you insinuate that I would not want to wait 12 weeks, or pay the price they are asking. Basically what I took from the response is "We can absolutely do it for you" .............. but we really don't want to, so here is all the reasons why you should take your product that we built to someone else.

Last Smith I will ever buy.
 
Least the guy was honest with you. I would prefer that to what seems to be the now standard "Send it in we will fix you up." and then four months later you are trying to find out where your pistol is.

I was pretty deep into Smith revolvers for awhile and considered sending some in for different things. After seeing some of the turn around times I decided it wasnt worth the wait and not knowing when I would get it back. Sounds like the guy was just trying to be up front that if you send it in you are at the bottom of the list. I would bet they field a lot of "Where is my gun I sent in for (insert simple small job)!?!?!?" calls and this tactic is designed to head them off.

You are right though that it was basically a blow off in a fairly polite way.

If you have any three inch Model 13's you want to sell in a fit of rage let me know.
 
Customer service is usually fixing a factory defect or problem and gets priority.
You are making a work request on a functioning handgun so it goes in the normal work Que.

Don't expect S&W to drop what they are doing because you took a hammer to your pistol and now need help.

( It should be a simple task to remove it )
 
I don't feel like there was anything wrong with their response. He was being straight up on their timeframes for a non warranty service request.

I think I would have been happy they didn't just have me send it in and be waiting for 12 weeks.
 
Dumb question, but were you hammering in the right direction? And did you have the slide safely secured in a vice?
 
I would have rather heard that than "Yes sir, send it in!"

FWIW, you're sure there isn't a roll pin retaining it?
 
For the way they treated me I guess I owe them my loyalty and some defense.

I sent them a sight from an old 29-2 that was locked up - communicated promptly and fixed it gratis.

Helped a friend out with a .223 M&P that would absolutely not group. Friend is the type that would just put he rifle in a closet and say it sucks. I handled the rifle return through S&W for him - communication was great, rifle was returned, new barrel installed, rifle shoots great now.

Loks like you got great communication. Sorry the experience was not what you hoped for. Give them another chance before you resort to Hi Point.
 
"I tried using the sight pusher, then a brass punch with a little brass hammer, then a steel punch with a little brass hammer, then a steel punch and a 5 lbs small sledge. Honestly I do not think I move the sight at all"

You skipped one hammer size. A 6-8oz steel hammer. A sharp impact will get you further than a heavy hammer. If it won't move get someone to put it sight up in a mill and cut a slot through the sight. Stop short of bottom of the dovetail of course. It'l almost fall out at that point. If you are brave and sober you could do it with a hacksaw!
 
I have sent quite a few customer wheel guns back to Smith's custom shop for refinishing, all took quite a long time and all came back in amazing better-than-new condition. S&W has always been great to me as a dealer, had great communication skills and were some of the nicest in the industry.

If you are okay with their wait times, feel free to reply to their email saying the wait time is fine and get a quote. Otherwise, stop using sledgehammers on your sights.
 
Knowledge & proper tools help when gunplumbing.
A padded vise, proper punch & hammer and maybe a shot of Kroil never hurt.

The most difficult sight I ever removed was on a Springfield XD for a friend that got into trouble. I also fixed his sight pusher...
 
Sorry, I don't see the problem. They don't know how many S&W's you own. I don't think it would affect their response if they did. If a twelve week wait is OK by you, why not just tell them so, and send it off? Why get sandy on a public forum?

Wes
 
Well, often high end 1911's will have the front sight pinned/and or staked and you have to remove the pin or stake before attempting to tap out the blade, not sure about a S&W 1911 but it is possible (just sayin......) Secondly, as mentioned the dovetail slot is cut so that the blade enters and exits from the same side, usually the removal should always be left to right, and installation right to left. If it's not staked or pinned or set screwed in place and you are attempting to move it in the correct direction...................I've never seen one a hammer and punch couldn't remove. I think you're over reacting a bit to the reply from S&W, on the bright side your post isn't about them having your slide for three months for simply replacing your front sight and they had the balls to charge you $200!
 
Well I would think by the know the OP is regretting posting this one here. I also had absolutely awesome service from S&W when they rebarreled my 686. They had the price on their website, but when I called to confirm the price they were very helpful and prompt. A phone call in never hurts before bashing them on here. Heck, them even e-mailing you back seems like good customer service these days.
 
Actually I am not regretting this post at all. If someone told me that they had a MGW sight pusher, I would assume that they are pushing the site the right direction, since the tool is designed to only push it one (The correct direction). Smith Knows most of the guns that I have since I register them for warranty. @Speak 883 you assume that I don't know how to remove a site. In all guns total I have removed and replaced probably in excess of 300 sites on various guns. I have done this on 1911 probably 30-35 times. There is no retaining pin holding in place.

I received my second response from Smith today, and they yet to have provided me with a price after asking for it twice now. BEFORE Commenting LOOK UP WHAT An MGW SITE PUSHER IS. They are really good. I had all the right tools to do the job. If they pressed it in with a 10 ton press I do not have that. And then would require it sent back to Smith and Wesson.

@ 50 cal Your comment was probably the dumbest business related comment I have ever heard. Me taking a punch to it, properly had nothing to do with needing them. Secondly customer service is taking care of your guest no matter what the issue is. Never once have I questioned their time frame to get it back to me. I would never send a guest of mine to anyone else, ever for any reason. I would take care of the matter . I run a multi million dollar retail store, and have so successfully for 12 years. I cant image telling one of them that they would be better off taking it somewhere else.
 
Call Bar Sto Precision. Ask for Gene or "The Fat Frog Man."

They'll square this away. It won't happen over night, but it'll be Jonny on the Spot once it gets back to you.

Good luck.

C.
 
Prebanpaul said:
Actually I am not regretting this post at all. If someone told me that they had a MGW sight pusher, I would assume that they are pushing the site the right direction, since the tool is designed to only push it one (The correct direction). Smith Knows most of the guns that I have since I register them for warranty. @Speak 883 you assume that I don't know how to remove a site. In all guns total I have removed and replaced probably in excess of 300 sites on various guns. I have done this on 1911 probably 30-35 times. There is no retaining pin holding in place.

I received my second response from Smith today, and they yet to have provided me with a price after asking for it twice now. BEFORE Commenting LOOK UP WHAT An MGW SITE PUSHER IS. They are really good. I had all the right tools to do the job. If they pressed it in with a 10 ton press I do not have that. And then would require it sent back to Smith and Wesson.

@ 50 cal Your comment was probably the dumbest business related comment I have ever heard. Me taking a punch to it, properly had nothing to do with needing them. Secondly customer service is taking care of your guest no matter what the issue is. Never once have I questioned their time frame to get it back to me. I would never send a guest of mine to anyone else, ever for any reason. I would take care of the matter . I run a multi million dollar retail store, and have so successfully for 12 years. I cant image telling one of them that they would be better off taking it somewhere else.
Click to expand...




Well then you had better stock up on sight pushers , punches and bigger hammers in your multimillion dollar retail store and try again.

:p
 
S&W cuts dovetails to the minimum and sights to a maximum. That is why they don't usually get loose or fly off during use. I see that as a plus.
I own two MGW pushers, one for M&P and one for Shield. Shield sights, I have found, are a real challenge for the MGW tool but it can be done with reasonable patience; and a dose of Kroil squirted around the front and rear sight, then allowed to "soak" for a few minutes.
I know you are working on a 1911 but the challenges are the same in this case.
I think those two steps would be good for your issue too.
You say you run a multi-million dollar retail store but not that it is a gun store. If so, I would likely look for alternatives than having you take big hammers to any of my guns.
 
BTW, you do not have a CS issue with S&W. These days most manufacturers would tell you to pound sand if you ask them to do something other than warranty work on a firearm. They are not in the gunsmithing business.
 
I've used S&W customer service for two issues (defects) with their products and both times they've been way over the top awesome in getting me squared away.

One of those instances was an M&P 340 I bought on gunbroker. The sideplate fit like crap. A simple call to S&W had a shipping call tag arrive via fedex the next day. 2 days later I got a call from an apologetic S&W, saying they scrapped the frame of my pistol because it was defective. They asked for FFL info because the replacement pistol would need a new transfer. They included a $50 check to cover my transfer fees.

S&W is beyond top notch. Sorry to hear their custom shop isn't as able to take care of you as fast as you'd like.
 
shoot4fun said:
BTW, you do not have a CS issue with S&W. These days most manufacturers would tell you to pound sand if you ask them to do something other than warranty work on a firearm. They are not in the gunsmithing business.
Click to expand...


Bingo.

Its along the same lines of someone trying to do a tune-up on their vehicle but they have problems / get stuck then gets mad at Ford or Chevy for not coming to their immediate assistance.
They can say "Ford & Chevy customer service sucks" but the reality is some people should leave things alone .

S&W backs factory defects in material & workmanship no questions asked to the guns owner original or not.
If someone modifies it not so much.
 
Quote Originally Posted by shoot4fun View Post

BTW, you do not have a CS issue with S&W. These days most manufacturers would tell you to pound sand if you ask them to do something other than warranty work on a firearm. They are not in the gunsmithing business. The company offers a service to install approved licensed product on there firearms. A rep of their company implied that I should not use it. That is a customer service issue. That is not a warranty issue. You should probably learn the difference before you comment on a topic.


Its along the same lines of someone trying to do a tune-up on their vehicle but they have problems / get stuck then gets mad at Ford or Chevy for not coming to their immediate assistance.
They can say "Ford & Chevy customer service sucks" but the reality is some people should leave things alone .

S&W backs factory defects in material & workmanship no questions asked to the guns owner original or not.
If someone modifies it not so much.


Again, your not in sales or customer service. IF you are you should not be.

This is a service that Smith and Wesson offers. There fore if it is offered, then you should provide your customer with the ability to use said services. Further more if your not into customizing your product you will not last long in any industry. That is why all major manufactures have custom shops. I am using their product in which they have agreed to a license agreement with trijicon in which they make money off of their guest. This is a customization that they approve. Customer service is about taking care of their guest, not their products. Taking care of their products is fall a warranty. When the guest wants to add a factory and business approved item, that is a customization and becomes a customer service issue. (Good or bad)
 
Hodge extree

I have never once said that their time frame is an issue. Their Rep did not think (with out even asking me) that I would want to wait for it. I only simply asked how to send it to them and how much would it cost. After the third email, I finally was able to get a call tag to send it in. They have yet to provide a price. That again is poor customer service, not warranty work.
 
Prebanpaul said:
Quote Originally Posted by shoot4fun View Post

BTW, you do not have a CS issue with S&W. These days most manufacturers would tell you to pound sand if you ask them to do something other than warranty work on a firearm. They are not in the gunsmithing business. The company offers a service to install approved licensed product on there firearms. A rep of their company implied that I should not use it. That is a customer service issue. That is not a warranty issue. You should probably learn the difference before you comment on a topic.


Its along the same lines of someone trying to do a tune-up on their vehicle but they have problems / get stuck then gets mad at Ford or Chevy for not coming to their immediate assistance.
They can say "Ford & Chevy customer service sucks" but the reality is some people should leave things alone .

S&W backs factory defects in material & workmanship no questions asked to the guns owner original or not.
If someone modifies it not so much.


Again, your not in sales or customer service. IF you are you should not be.

This is a service that Smith and Wesson offers. There fore if it is offered, then you should provide your customer with the ability to use said services. Further more if your not into customizing your product you will not last long in any industry. That is why all major manufactures have custom shops. I am using their product in which they have agreed to a license agreement with trijicon in which they make money off of their guest. This is a customization that they approve. Customer service is about taking care of their guest, not their products. Taking care of their products is fall a warranty. When the guest wants to add a factory and business approved item, that is a customization and becomes a customer service issue. (Good or bad)
Click to expand...


You seem to be the only one in the room ranting about something that everyone else sees as a non-issue. Why not just hit yourself in the head with that big hammer and shut the fuck up!

BTW, the CS guy was trying to save you being pissed later because of waiting in line so long. I would have appreciated his honesty instead of ranting on here.
 
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shoot4fun said:
You seem to be the only one in the room ranting about something that everyone else sees as a non-issue. Why not just hit yourself in the head with that big hammer and shut the fuck up!

BTW, the CS guy was trying to save you being pissed later because of waiting in line so long. I would have appreciated his honesty instead of ranting on here.
Click to expand...



Why damage a perfectly good hammer ?
 
cal50 said:
Why damage a perfectly good hammer ?
Click to expand...

You didn't read his post. He said he had a 5lb sledge hammer. I'm positive he could hit himself hard enough in the head to put us out of our misery and not damage the hammer. The risk we take, is he screws up hitting himself in the head up, and then we'd have to read another rant about how he contacted the hammer manufacture and is pissed, because they recommended getting one of his friends to hit him in the head with the hammer, instead of offering to have one of they're customer service reps do it.
 
I love the Shut the Fuck up comment........... Sorry I do not take advise from someone that is two stupid to know the difference between customer service and Warranty work. Thanks I will continue to post about their poor customer service. Again if I can wait 6 months for a custom gun and 9 months for a suppressor I can wait the 3-4 months for my slide to get back to me. Just wondering when and where you got your P.H.D. in psychology since you knew that I would be mad about the wait. Ohhhhh you don't.
 
Why do you want to send it to S&W???? There are hundreds or qualified smiths out there. Is there more to your story?
 
Prebanpaul said:
I love the Shut the Fuck up comment........... Sorry I do not take advise from someone that is two stupid to know the difference between customer service and Warranty work. Thanks I will continue to post about their poor customer service. Again if I can wait 6 months for a custom gun and 9 months for a suppressor I can wait the 3-4 months for my slide to get back to me. Just wondering when and where you got your P.H.D. in psychology since you knew that I would be mad about the wait. Ohhhhh you don't.
Click to expand...

Now you are making even less sense and beginning to look like you're covering up something. GH41 may have it covered. Is there more to the story?
Why would anyone wait three to four months to get a sight removed from a dovetail unless they had trashed it with the big hammer and felt like S&W was going to fix it free of charge?
You are the one who fails to see that with most high production manufacturers CS is warranty work. Yes, the S&W Performance Center does offer some services above the warranty rung on the ladder but those are pre-set packages and there is no deviation. The PC would not remove the sight as you want done and, if they did, you would look even more foolish paying what they would charge to do it.
 
Never trashed the dovetail. Why send it to Smith. It's very simple. I have top of the line equipment and have remove hundreds of sites. Something is wrong or they used a 10 ton press to put it in. Therefore I thought what the hell send it back to them and let them deal with it. I posted this for poor quality customer service reasons. Again it is taken four emails just to get a price.
 
In the time you took defending your position any number of us could have removed the sight. It ain't rocket science.
 
Prebanpaul said:
Again it is taken four emails just to get a price.
Click to expand...

Oh, that sounds pretty rough. They're fucking you good, for sure.

There are some CS/QC issues that deserve being brought to public attention, and there are some that do not. I will leave it at that.
 
Prebanpaul said:
Never trashed the dovetail. Why send it to Smith. It's very simple. I have top of the line equipment and have remove hundreds of sites. Something is wrong or they used a 10 ton press to put it in. Therefore I thought what the hell send it back to them and let them deal with it. I posted this for poor quality customer service reasons. Again it is taken four emails just to get a price.
Click to expand...

Let's see, they served you so poorly you will never buy another S&W, told you that your needs could be better served by a gunsmith instead of CS, said it would take too long if they did it and then "stalled" by not giving you an over the phone labor quote until you hounded them with four emails but you still are dead set on sending them your gun.

Just me I guess but I would take all that "rough treatment" as an omen and just continue to apply your over-the-top skills, experience and all the resources of your multi-million dollar retail operation to do it myself.
 
OP...just to clarify for you...contrary to what they told you in training, the GREETER does NOT run the WalMart!!!
 
19scout77 Your last post shows your mentality. Always defeated. Sometimes that greeter ends up running that Walmart and at 250k does not mind saying that is where they started. You on the other hand will always have to have someone above you pulling your puppet strings.

But hey it been fun pulling on shoot4funs collar........ I mean hell I taught a dumb old dog a new trick. The difference between customer service and Warranty work. Slide has been out for two days. 5 emails later still no price on installing the sites. For a 100 million dollar plus company that is bad customer service.
 
Prebanpaul said:
19scout77 Your last post shows your mentality. Always defeated. Sometimes that greeter ends up running that Walmart and at 250k does not mind saying that is where they started. You on the other hand will always have to have someone above you pulling your puppet strings.

But hey it been fun pulling on shoot4funs collar........ I mean hell I taught a dumb old dog a new trick. The difference between customer service and Warranty work. Slide has been out for two days. 5 emails later still no price on installing the sites. For a 100 million dollar plus company that is bad customer service.
Click to expand...

The only thing you've taught us is your oblivious, and frankly with your last post, pretty clearly either very high on your own horse or delusional.
 
jrbet83 said:
The only thing you've taught us is your oblivious, and frankly with your last post, pretty clearly either very high on your own horse or delusional.
Click to expand...



I learned S&W will reluctantly work with the handicapped & people that try to modify & screw up their work.


If its this same guy ( Prebanpaul) he is a manager of a jewelry store which might explain why he can't do a simple task like removing the sight.


Paul Risley | LinkedIn


Looks like he made a video and check out the "top of the line tools"

 
Prebanpaul said:
19scout77 Your last post shows your mentality. Always defeated. Sometimes that greeter ends up running that Walmart and at 250k does not mind saying that is where they started. You on the other hand will always have to have someone above you pulling your puppet strings.

But hey it been fun pulling on shoot4funs collar........ I mean hell I taught a dumb old dog a new trick. The difference between customer service and Warranty work. Slide has been out for two days. 5 emails later still no price on installing the sites. For a 100 million dollar plus company that is bad customer service.
Click to expand...


You are correct in one thing. You taught me never to look at anything you ever have to sell in the PX here or anywhere else. You are certainly over qualified to be a gunsmith, maybe even a gun owner.
And, for the record, I believe S&W had well past the 600 million dollar mark in sales the last three years in a row.
Also, for the dumb old dog comment, again FUCK YOU ASSHOLE!!!!!!!!!!!
 
50 cal Thanks for posting that video. I forgot all about it. I was sure shootnforfun would have enjoyed it, that good old dog learned a new trick. Just wondering 50 cal with all your tool and die making capes, and of course your pinball skills, what would you have done in that video. Taken an hour to make a part that would have cost someone 30 bucks in time or effort. I came up with a simple 35 cent fix to a problem. Worked perfect. Some times you can have all the top of the line tools and still not be able to efficiently get the job done. Kinda like the government. You missed the video of me eating a scorpion and my daughters first hit at 9 years old on a 1000 yard target. I mean if you gonna go personal lets make it at least good.

Did you show the video to Burndetta she would have enjoyed it.
 
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Prebanpaul said:
50 cal Thanks for posting that video. I forgot all about it. I was sure shootnforfun would have enjoyed it, that good old dog learned a new trick. Just wondering 50 cal with all your tool and die making capes, and of course your pinball skills, what would you have done in that video. Taken an hour to make a part that would have cost someone 30 bucks in time or effort. I came up with a simple 35 cent fix to a problem. Worked perfect. Some times you can have all the top of the line tools and still not be able to efficiently get the job done. Kinda like the government. You missed the video of me eating a scorpion and my daughters first hit at 9 years old on a 1000 yard target. I mean if you gonna go personal lets make it at least good.

Did you show the video to Burndetta she would have enjoyed it.
Click to expand...


Yep, I am a tool & die guy.
What would I have done in your video? Simple , not make the video because I can replace my bolt without the use of any tools.
YMMV.

As to making this "personal" I am not.
Posting a link to info you or someone else placed on a public website is far from personal.

If you want to name drop the names of my wife or family that is another direction and IS personal so you decide now if you really want to go that direction.
I assure you that you do not.

I have always helped others when I could lend my experience or aid in a situation. I initially thought you were a typical person that needed a hand because they got a tough nut to crack. Instead of looking at yourself failing to complete a simple task you attempted you somehow wanted / tried to shift the blame onto S&W.

Good luck in your gun plumbing, you need it.
 
Cal50 When you post who I work for that is personal. You see that is how I provide for my family and send my daughter to a private school. I did not involve your personal information at any time until you did. Any one can use a computer. I happen to be exceptional at that. I did the same thing that you did, I found public information on a computer. So I guess its not personal.

Further more, I have done my fair share of gun smithing on small projects. I am by no means a tool and die maker. I am very confident in the tools that I used and my ability to remove a front site from a firearm. Every arm chair quarter back wanted to make a comment on something they where not working on. Every now and then even factory stuff can not be done right. My complaint about smith and Wesson was not about the product or the time. You will learn in customer service, the first thing that you do is actually listen to what the guest has stated. My complaint was the company will sell a product (the gun) make an after market agreement to licenses something going on their gun(the site) provide a service to put the site on the gun. When I tried using all of their offerings, I was originally steered away from it by one of the customer service reps. If you would ask the director of customer service or a VP or President of that company, how many times should you send in a email asking for basic information, they would state should take only once, and sometimes twice. They probably would not be happy if they found out that it has take 5 emails and I still do not have the basic information. I simply asked how to ship it back, how much it was going to cost. Never asked a time frame. Never stated anything was wrong with their product.


Also you comment about being able to put the bolt back into the gun with out tools, is probably a little off. You seen anyone can drop a bolt in a 10-22 but dropping that bolt into a 10-22 magnum with a extra heavy spring is a different ball game. You see someone has seen a need to make a tool that cost 35 dollars to do that. Obliviously there was a market for the tool, or it would not be for sale. I simply helped out a lot of people and showed them that you do not need it.


Your initial offering was spot on. However your second offering went away from what the topic , to thinking I did something wrong while trying to remove the site. Short of milling it out (which is out of my league) I had tried removing it properly.

Who knows we could be millionaires together some day. I can take care of the sales and customer service, and you can take care of the gun smithing.
 
"Short of milling it out (which is out of my league) I had tried removing it properly"

If you were wailing away at with a 5# hammer you were NOT trying to remove it properly.
 
So far, I got this:


1. OP can not remove S&W front "site" (firearm component, which is, by the book, is called "sight", technically speaking) with hammer, including a big one having 5 lbs. head.
2. OP runs multi-million store for 12 years, which is a very important disclaimer for all to consider.
3. OP received suggestion from S&W to use local gunsmith to remove the "site", as an option to take care of the issue in short order, which OP did not except.
4. OP sent 5 e-mails to S&W.
5. OP is not proficient with the mill.
6. OP wants to see price for repairs from S&W, period.
7. OP is pissed off and will never buy S&W product again.

Very interesting thread, for sure...
 
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