'Sniperize' surplus rifles?
- Thread starter desola
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Re: 'Sniperize' surplus rifles?
You would be better served buying a new rifle off the shelf (Remington, Savage, Winchester) and getting good optics. In the end the cost of accurizing a surplus rifle will out weigh the results. If you happen to have an accurate surplus rifle maybe invest in optics. Nothing beats purpose built and brand new. Just my $0.02
You would be better served buying a new rifle off the shelf (Remington, Savage, Winchester) and getting good optics. In the end the cost of accurizing a surplus rifle will out weigh the results. If you happen to have an accurate surplus rifle maybe invest in optics. Nothing beats purpose built and brand new. Just my $0.02
Re: 'Sniperize' surplus rifles?
Hour of Angle, that's priceless.
To sniperize a Mosin Nagant, just make sure it has a healthy looking bore and rock the iron sights.
Hour of Angle, that's priceless.
To sniperize a Mosin Nagant, just make sure it has a healthy looking bore and rock the iron sights.
Re: 'Sniperize' surplus rifles?
If you are talking about taking a rack grade Mauser or Springfield or Mosin and retrofitting it with parts and repro parts to duplicate an issued "sniper" version of that rifle for CMP vintage sniper competition, then it can be a fun project.
If you are talking about taking an SKS and slapping about half the "accessories" found in Tapco's catalog on it..., probably not a great idea.
As much as I like vintage MILSURP rifles, a modern box stock factory varmint version of your favorite rifle will shoot more accurately than an old warhorse without extensive (and expensive) modification.
If you are talking about taking a rack grade Mauser or Springfield or Mosin and retrofitting it with parts and repro parts to duplicate an issued "sniper" version of that rifle for CMP vintage sniper competition, then it can be a fun project.
If you are talking about taking an SKS and slapping about half the "accessories" found in Tapco's catalog on it..., probably not a great idea.
As much as I like vintage MILSURP rifles, a modern box stock factory varmint version of your favorite rifle will shoot more accurately than an old warhorse without extensive (and expensive) modification.
Re: 'Sniperize' surplus rifles?
I don't know about "sniperized" but those old Korean War Era and earlier rifles will shoot.
I use to run sniper schools for the NG using M1C/D and they did pretty good up to 900 yards. Even with iron sights they were shooters.
Still are, check out some of the scores of the CMP GSM Vintage Sniper Matches.
I don't know about "sniperized" but those old Korean War Era and earlier rifles will shoot.
I use to run sniper schools for the NG using M1C/D and they did pretty good up to 900 yards. Even with iron sights they were shooters.
Still are, check out some of the scores of the CMP GSM Vintage Sniper Matches.
Re: 'Sniperize' surplus rifles?
I seriously hope you are talking about setting a rifle up like the sniper version of said rifle. If so I think that a Mosin Nagant would right now be the easiest and cheapest to recreate.
I seriously hope you are talking about setting a rifle up like the sniper version of said rifle. If so I think that a Mosin Nagant would right now be the easiest and cheapest to recreate.
Re: 'Sniperize' surplus rifles?
I have personally handled the Hiper rifle, I call it that because "sniper rifle" could not properly convey that awe inspiring abilities of said WMD. And there it was, just sitting in a storage unit, like a forgotten Soviet ICBM.
I have personally handled the Hiper rifle, I call it that because "sniper rifle" could not properly convey that awe inspiring abilities of said WMD. And there it was, just sitting in a storage unit, like a forgotten Soviet ICBM.
Re: 'Sniperize' surplus rifles?
Gents,
With some machining and a new barrel, a Mauser can be made into a
one-hole rifle. Cost is about the same as a worked over Rem 700.
Not a trivial project and not cheap.
Still faced with the long striker fall and long locktime of most military
rifles. Follow through VERY important when shooting militaries, as the
actions emphasized reliability of ignition over ignition speed.
Lightweight strikers from Tubb help as do heavier striker springs. Put on
an aftermarket trigger.
Gents,
With some machining and a new barrel, a Mauser can be made into a
one-hole rifle. Cost is about the same as a worked over Rem 700.
Not a trivial project and not cheap.
Still faced with the long striker fall and long locktime of most military
rifles. Follow through VERY important when shooting militaries, as the
actions emphasized reliability of ignition over ignition speed.
Lightweight strikers from Tubb help as do heavier striker springs. Put on
an aftermarket trigger.
Re: 'Sniperize' surplus rifles?
I used to shoot a Mauser actioned rifle in the unlimited class.
And at 93 pounds, it was a superbly accurate rifle....
Vintage, period-correct rifles are pretty neat. But I'd never throw the money into a Mauser/Mosin/or 03 project trying to make it shoot like a modern day precision rig.
I used to shoot a Mauser actioned rifle in the unlimited class.
And at 93 pounds, it was a superbly accurate rifle....
Vintage, period-correct rifles are pretty neat. But I'd never throw the money into a Mauser/Mosin/or 03 project trying to make it shoot like a modern day precision rig.
Re: 'Sniperize' surplus rifles?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MinorDamage</div><div class="ubbcode-body">JRose sniperized one a while back. Here's the link.
Link
Josh </div></div>
You're right Josh, EPIC sniperization that set the standard for future projects. Wonder what Deadly ever did with that thing. It probably sports a Hensoldt...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MinorDamage</div><div class="ubbcode-body">JRose sniperized one a while back. Here's the link.
Link
Josh </div></div>
You're right Josh, EPIC sniperization that set the standard for future projects. Wonder what Deadly ever did with that thing. It probably sports a Hensoldt...
Re: 'Sniperize' surplus rifles?
Waste of money IMHO. You can get a Howa so cheap that it really doesn't make any sense to try updating something surp.
-matt
Waste of money IMHO. You can get a Howa so cheap that it really doesn't make any sense to try updating something surp.
-matt
Re: 'Sniperize' surplus rifles?
What advantages do the 700's and the Howa's have over a "capable" `03? And by capable, I mean in good to excellent fighting form.
Many of us have seen the shooter on youtube take an `03 to 1,000 yards with a bolt on scope and some hand loads... the same shooter also does the same with the Mauser, the M1 and the Mosin Nagant.
So what are we talking here? What needs to be done to a surp rifle to get it up to the standards of the new rigs?
I ask from a stance that I honestly do not know what it would take...
Take for instance, a new shooter brags about his new 700 SPS Tactical, and in the next couple replies, someone says "thats a start..." This indicates to me, that a $550 223 rifle is not up to standards either, so where do we start to measure this standard, and at what price range do we start at? Granted, glass needs to figured into both new and surplus scenarios, as many precision rifles are not equiped with irons...
I love my `03, but I crave an M24, so I am by no means bias... I would like to know what it would truly take...(?)
What advantages do the 700's and the Howa's have over a "capable" `03? And by capable, I mean in good to excellent fighting form.
Many of us have seen the shooter on youtube take an `03 to 1,000 yards with a bolt on scope and some hand loads... the same shooter also does the same with the Mauser, the M1 and the Mosin Nagant.
So what are we talking here? What needs to be done to a surp rifle to get it up to the standards of the new rigs?
I ask from a stance that I honestly do not know what it would take...
Take for instance, a new shooter brags about his new 700 SPS Tactical, and in the next couple replies, someone says "thats a start..." This indicates to me, that a $550 223 rifle is not up to standards either, so where do we start to measure this standard, and at what price range do we start at? Granted, glass needs to figured into both new and surplus scenarios, as many precision rifles are not equiped with irons...
I love my `03, but I crave an M24, so I am by no means bias... I would like to know what it would truly take...(?)
Re: 'Sniperize' surplus rifles?
Why not use a modern action, not cannibalize a piece of history, and end up with a more adequate tool?
Why not use a modern action, not cannibalize a piece of history, and end up with a more adequate tool?
Re: 'Sniperize' surplus rifles?
The advantages modern actions have are as follows:
1. Stiffer simpler designs with thicker medal and less uses doodads like groves for striper clips which weaken the action.
2. Designed with free floating barrels in mind, (the barrel threads are longer).
3. Better machining quality.
4. More and better trigger options
5. More stock options
6. Larger recoil lugs
7. Better heat treating
8. Already drilled and taped for scopes
The advantages modern actions have are as follows:
1. Stiffer simpler designs with thicker medal and less uses doodads like groves for striper clips which weaken the action.
2. Designed with free floating barrels in mind, (the barrel threads are longer).
3. Better machining quality.
4. More and better trigger options
5. More stock options
6. Larger recoil lugs
7. Better heat treating
8. Already drilled and taped for scopes
Re: 'Sniperize' surplus rifles?
For me, "sporterizing" a 91/30 was about the fun and challenge of doing the conversion.
Receiver and pillar bedded into an aftermarket stock, it shoots 1.5 MOA at 200M if I do my part with SMK handloads and Vortex Viper 3.5-10x. It does turn a few heads, and has converted a few non-believers at the range.
As long as you can do all the work yourself (incl. d&t for scope mounts) it is reasonably inexpensive- for a reasonably accurate rifle. If you need to pay a smith for any of the work, fuhgedaboutit, buy a Savage or 700.
For me, "sporterizing" a 91/30 was about the fun and challenge of doing the conversion.
Receiver and pillar bedded into an aftermarket stock, it shoots 1.5 MOA at 200M if I do my part with SMK handloads and Vortex Viper 3.5-10x. It does turn a few heads, and has converted a few non-believers at the range.
As long as you can do all the work yourself (incl. d&t for scope mounts) it is reasonably inexpensive- for a reasonably accurate rifle. If you need to pay a smith for any of the work, fuhgedaboutit, buy a Savage or 700.
Re: 'Sniperize' surplus rifles?
There was a time and day when "surplus" rifles were used to make a cheap sporting rifle. Many a Springfield was chopped up to do this. I bought a large ring mauser from Century about 10 yrs ago and it did have a new Wilson barrel(30-06) and a B&C stock for about $200. It had a terible 2 stage military trigger which I replaced with a Timney. It actuall shot pretty well and I took several deer with it. About 3 months ago I decided to get into LR shooting. I bought a Rem 700 SPS Tactical for $549, probally a much better starter for a LR shooter.
There was a time and day when "surplus" rifles were used to make a cheap sporting rifle. Many a Springfield was chopped up to do this. I bought a large ring mauser from Century about 10 yrs ago and it did have a new Wilson barrel(30-06) and a B&C stock for about $200. It had a terible 2 stage military trigger which I replaced with a Timney. It actuall shot pretty well and I took several deer with it. About 3 months ago I decided to get into LR shooting. I bought a Rem 700 SPS Tactical for $549, probally a much better starter for a LR shooter.
Re: 'Sniperize' surplus rifles?
I'm actually selling my "sporterized/sniperized" K98k in the For Sale section.
I started on this project around the time most of you guys were graduating middle school. I'd been "accurizing" (in as much as such an approach to a surplus rifle can be described) milsurp rifles since 1994.
It's a losing game. It used to be what you did as hunting rifles were not particularly accurate, and always more expensive. However, you can go pretty far down the road and spend a WHOLE bunch of cashish getting your milsurp to shoot MOA or better; I have over $2,500 into this rifle and have now offered it for half that price.
I'm actually selling my "sporterized/sniperized" K98k in the For Sale section.
I started on this project around the time most of you guys were graduating middle school. I'd been "accurizing" (in as much as such an approach to a surplus rifle can be described) milsurp rifles since 1994.
It's a losing game. It used to be what you did as hunting rifles were not particularly accurate, and always more expensive. However, you can go pretty far down the road and spend a WHOLE bunch of cashish getting your milsurp to shoot MOA or better; I have over $2,500 into this rifle and have now offered it for half that price.
Re: 'Sniperize' surplus rifles?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: boltstop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm actually selling my "sporterized/sniperized" K98k in the For Sale section.
I started on this project around the time most of you guys were graduating middle school. I'd been "accurizing" (in as much as such an approach to a surplus rifle can be described) milsurp rifles since 1994.
It's a losing game. It used to be what you did as hunting rifles were not particularly accurate, and always more expensive. However, you can go pretty far down the road and spend a WHOLE bunch of cashish getting your milsurp to shoot MOA or better; I have over $2,500 into this rifle and have now offered it for half that price.
</div></div>
I don't know why you don't just keep it as it looks like you've done a hell of a job cleaning that rifle up -id be proud to own that !!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: boltstop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm actually selling my "sporterized/sniperized" K98k in the For Sale section.
I started on this project around the time most of you guys were graduating middle school. I'd been "accurizing" (in as much as such an approach to a surplus rifle can be described) milsurp rifles since 1994.
It's a losing game. It used to be what you did as hunting rifles were not particularly accurate, and always more expensive. However, you can go pretty far down the road and spend a WHOLE bunch of cashish getting your milsurp to shoot MOA or better; I have over $2,500 into this rifle and have now offered it for half that price.
I don't know why you don't just keep it as it looks like you've done a hell of a job cleaning that rifle up -id be proud to own that !!
Re: 'Sniperize' surplus rifles?
OP - if by "sniperizing" you mean heading off into the garage and slapping some sort of mount and a modern scope on any old dog of a milsurp, I think you'd be better off saving the money as others have said.
If you mean putting together an accurate repro of a classic rifle (Springfield, Enfield, Mauser, Moisin) then I can tell you it can be a very expensive proposition and finding the correct parts can be a long and frustrating experience....plus you need to start with the right rifle or you're just wasting time and money.
Chance are most people won't have the tools or engineering capability to do the job properly themselves and underestimate the work and cost involved.
Having said that, both the 70+ year old rifles I have had done are capable of 1 to 1.5 MOA accuracy and are great fun to shoot. so much so that I have a second Mauser K98k in the pipeline.....but they will never (in my hands at least) get close to a modern precision rifle.
Here's a link to a thread I ran a while ago, it also links into the homepage of the UK smith who did my Enfield No4T repro with an article on the work involved:
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2557323&page=1
boltstop's budget of around $2500 is reasonable....my Mauser cost about that that and the Enfield slightly more but they are both "period correct" and have period optics that were fully serviced (and in the case of the Zeiss rebuilt).
Right now a correct and original 98k sniper rifle is going to cost you well in excess of $10,000, a good correct and original Enfield No4T with all the CES will be $6,000 or more in the UK.
In the end it comes down to what your reasons are for doing it....if you want to get a sub-MOA tack driver for the fraction of the cost of a modern precsion rifle, you're probably going to be disappointed. If you want to have an interesting, practical and useable classic rifle that gives you a taste of old school precision marksmanship without risking a valuable and irreplaceable original, it can be a great project.
OP - if by "sniperizing" you mean heading off into the garage and slapping some sort of mount and a modern scope on any old dog of a milsurp, I think you'd be better off saving the money as others have said.
If you mean putting together an accurate repro of a classic rifle (Springfield, Enfield, Mauser, Moisin) then I can tell you it can be a very expensive proposition and finding the correct parts can be a long and frustrating experience....plus you need to start with the right rifle or you're just wasting time and money.
Chance are most people won't have the tools or engineering capability to do the job properly themselves and underestimate the work and cost involved.
Having said that, both the 70+ year old rifles I have had done are capable of 1 to 1.5 MOA accuracy and are great fun to shoot. so much so that I have a second Mauser K98k in the pipeline.....but they will never (in my hands at least) get close to a modern precision rifle.
Here's a link to a thread I ran a while ago, it also links into the homepage of the UK smith who did my Enfield No4T repro with an article on the work involved:
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2557323&page=1
boltstop's budget of around $2500 is reasonable....my Mauser cost about that that and the Enfield slightly more but they are both "period correct" and have period optics that were fully serviced (and in the case of the Zeiss rebuilt).
Right now a correct and original 98k sniper rifle is going to cost you well in excess of $10,000, a good correct and original Enfield No4T with all the CES will be $6,000 or more in the UK.
In the end it comes down to what your reasons are for doing it....if you want to get a sub-MOA tack driver for the fraction of the cost of a modern precsion rifle, you're probably going to be disappointed. If you want to have an interesting, practical and useable classic rifle that gives you a taste of old school precision marksmanship without risking a valuable and irreplaceable original, it can be a great project.
Re: 'Sniperize' surplus rifles?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ch'e</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I don't know why you don't just keep it as it looks like you've done a hell of a job cleaning that rifle up -id be proud to own that !! </div></div>
You're making a hell of a point. If it doesn't sell I'll be OK. I have not fully explored everything I need to examine with this rifle. I just have my eye on a couple of different guns and am looking into the (ever-shrinking) shooting closet to see what I can sell to fund the instability of my infantile attention span.
OP, if you are just thinking "hey, my eyesight isn't so great, maybe I'll put a scope on a milsurp so's I can see what I'm shooting at," then don't be dissatisfied if you get 2.5 - 5 MOA out of the rifle, even with your handloads. These old rifles were loose in order to assure function in the most difficult of battle conditions. I'd say that the ammo they were supposed to shoot was considered acceptable if it was 5 MOA, so the makers didn't seek to get them to shoot any better than the ammo requirement.
Some bolt actions, however, could be relied upon to get better accuracy than that; I'd say the Mausers are all in this group. The Garand was OK as a 5 MOA battle rifle but could be coaxed with good ammo to do a little better, perhaps 3.8 MOA. I had a $2500 Garand (Clint Fowler Rifles, the man's a GENIUS!) that I worked on over 10 years and it would reliably shoot under 1 MOA with irons. It was fabulous. I sold it and bought a Canon DSLR and gave my old lady some cash. I don't miss that heavy old bugger... too much. <sniff>
Easy to get attached to these old warhorses!
P.S. Basra Boy hit all the salient points much better than I said it.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ch'e</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I don't know why you don't just keep it as it looks like you've done a hell of a job cleaning that rifle up -id be proud to own that !! </div></div>
You're making a hell of a point. If it doesn't sell I'll be OK. I have not fully explored everything I need to examine with this rifle. I just have my eye on a couple of different guns and am looking into the (ever-shrinking) shooting closet to see what I can sell to fund the instability of my infantile attention span.
OP, if you are just thinking "hey, my eyesight isn't so great, maybe I'll put a scope on a milsurp so's I can see what I'm shooting at," then don't be dissatisfied if you get 2.5 - 5 MOA out of the rifle, even with your handloads. These old rifles were loose in order to assure function in the most difficult of battle conditions. I'd say that the ammo they were supposed to shoot was considered acceptable if it was 5 MOA, so the makers didn't seek to get them to shoot any better than the ammo requirement.
Some bolt actions, however, could be relied upon to get better accuracy than that; I'd say the Mausers are all in this group. The Garand was OK as a 5 MOA battle rifle but could be coaxed with good ammo to do a little better, perhaps 3.8 MOA. I had a $2500 Garand (Clint Fowler Rifles, the man's a GENIUS!) that I worked on over 10 years and it would reliably shoot under 1 MOA with irons. It was fabulous. I sold it and bought a Canon DSLR and gave my old lady some cash. I don't miss that heavy old bugger... too much. <sniff>
Easy to get attached to these old warhorses!
P.S. Basra Boy hit all the salient points much better than I said it.
Re: 'Sniperize' surplus rifles?
30years ago, been there done that. I never recouped the $$$ I put into it. Could have spent a lot less on a Remy 700 BDL (which I eventually did) and spent a lot less and shot even better.
30years ago, been there done that. I never recouped the $$$ I put into it. Could have spent a lot less on a Remy 700 BDL (which I eventually did) and spent a lot less and shot even better.
Re: 'Sniperize' surplus rifles?
IMHO Its like hot rodding a mil transport or other Mil vehicle. You just end up with this "thing" that cost way to much for the effort. Most Mil Surplus should be a leave it alone for what it is and use it as meant to be used kind of thing. That is unless you have lots of money and time to throw around.
Rem and Savage got nice base rifles sitting there to use out of the box and you can build on them reliably over time.
IMHO Its like hot rodding a mil transport or other Mil vehicle. You just end up with this "thing" that cost way to much for the effort. Most Mil Surplus should be a leave it alone for what it is and use it as meant to be used kind of thing. That is unless you have lots of money and time to throw around.
Rem and Savage got nice base rifles sitting there to use out of the box and you can build on them reliably over time.
Re: 'Sniperize' surplus rifles?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: brand692</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I used to shoot a Mauser actioned rifle in the unlimited class.
And at 93 pounds, it was a superbly accurate rifle....
Vintage, period-correct rifles are pretty neat. But I'd never throw the money into a Mauser/Mosin/or 03 project trying to make it shoot like a modern day precision rig. </div></div>
Brand692,
Thats a beautiful example of an old school rig. Did you hire a porter to hump that puppy to the bench for ya?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: brand692</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I used to shoot a Mauser actioned rifle in the unlimited class.
And at 93 pounds, it was a superbly accurate rifle....
Vintage, period-correct rifles are pretty neat. But I'd never throw the money into a Mauser/Mosin/or 03 project trying to make it shoot like a modern day precision rig. </div></div>
Brand692,
Thats a beautiful example of an old school rig. Did you hire a porter to hump that puppy to the bench for ya?
Re: 'Sniperize' surplus rifles?
Many Swiss K31's will shoot MOA or a little better with a little attention. They also come with lotsof aftermarket goodies like scope mounts and target sights.
K31 scope mounts and sights.
Same thing with the Swedish Mausers. Accurate and shoot a fine round.
Along these lines, there are a few choices.
1) Swiss K31. Most cost effective and a fine weapon. Easy to scope with said mount. Fires .308 projectiles.
2) Finnish M39 Mosin Nagant. A like new rifle can be had from $350 or so. Shoots a .310 bullet though, so match offerings are limited. Scope mounts are solid but require drill and tap.
Finn M39
Rock solid mounts
If you're willing to spend a little more initially, then there are a couple more.
Swedish CG-63. Taken out of service, rebarreled and fit into target stocks for match shooting. Some can be had from Simpson's Ltd., without sights for $750.
Finn M28/76. Essentially same story. Although it is a Nagant, most are fitted with .308 barrels instead of .310. Slugging will make sure. $900 and up.
With both of these options, you'll have to drill and tap for a scope and the CG will require a bent bolt handle.
I'm a poor man's sniper rifle fan too. But now that Savage sells such a user friendly action for not a lot of money, it's hard to not go modern. If you want a old sniper, Gibbs sells several iterations of the 1903 sniper for $1000 with scope and all. Also you can get a Swede M41b from Samco for not a lot more and it's the real deal.
Good luck.
Paul
Many Swiss K31's will shoot MOA or a little better with a little attention. They also come with lotsof aftermarket goodies like scope mounts and target sights.
K31 scope mounts and sights.
Same thing with the Swedish Mausers. Accurate and shoot a fine round.
Along these lines, there are a few choices.
1) Swiss K31. Most cost effective and a fine weapon. Easy to scope with said mount. Fires .308 projectiles.
2) Finnish M39 Mosin Nagant. A like new rifle can be had from $350 or so. Shoots a .310 bullet though, so match offerings are limited. Scope mounts are solid but require drill and tap.
Finn M39
Rock solid mounts
If you're willing to spend a little more initially, then there are a couple more.
Swedish CG-63. Taken out of service, rebarreled and fit into target stocks for match shooting. Some can be had from Simpson's Ltd., without sights for $750.
Finn M28/76. Essentially same story. Although it is a Nagant, most are fitted with .308 barrels instead of .310. Slugging will make sure. $900 and up.
With both of these options, you'll have to drill and tap for a scope and the CG will require a bent bolt handle.
I'm a poor man's sniper rifle fan too. But now that Savage sells such a user friendly action for not a lot of money, it's hard to not go modern. If you want a old sniper, Gibbs sells several iterations of the 1903 sniper for $1000 with scope and all. Also you can get a Swede M41b from Samco for not a lot more and it's the real deal.
Good luck.
Paul
Re: 'Sniperize' surplus rifles?
I love my .303 british, but don't think I could spend even hundreds of $$$ to make it shoot better. It's a great hunting rifle now and holds MOA out to 200. As far as I will ever shoot it.
I love my .303 british, but don't think I could spend even hundreds of $$$ to make it shoot better. It's a great hunting rifle now and holds MOA out to 200. As far as I will ever shoot it.
Re: 'Sniperize' surplus rifles?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: libertyman777</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> If you want a old sniper, Gibbs sells several iterations of the 1903 sniper for $1000 with scope and all.
</div></div>
My smith bought one of these.....it's worth looking at his report before you go down this route:
http://www.thamesvalleyguns.co.uk/
Go to the article entitled "Upgrading a 1903A4" on the "Project Work" menu for his experiences....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: libertyman777</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> If you want a old sniper, Gibbs sells several iterations of the 1903 sniper for $1000 with scope and all.
</div></div>
My smith bought one of these.....it's worth looking at his report before you go down this route:
http://www.thamesvalleyguns.co.uk/
Go to the article entitled "Upgrading a 1903A4" on the "Project Work" menu for his experiences....
Re: 'Sniperize' surplus rifles?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BasraBoy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: libertyman777</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> If you want a old sniper, Gibbs sells several iterations of the 1903 sniper for $1000 with scope and all.
</div></div>
My smith bought one of these.....it's worth looking at his report before you go down this route:
http://www.thamesvalleyguns.co.uk/
Go to the article entitled "Upgrading a 1903A4" on the "Project Work" menu for his experiences.... </div></div>
This squares with some of my experiences from doing this with non-reproduction guns. Milsurps that have been hastily assembled from parts or lent out to some foreign nation as a last-ditch defense effort come back looking like your 16 year-old daughter after her third date with the love of her life: FRAZZLED!
What you younger guys have to remember is that this is a hobby from the 1980s and 1990s - this is what we did back then. There weren't really a community of precision rifle shooters beyond the narrow police and military specialty companies (read: $3k+). Most hunting rifles couldn't be expected to shoot better than 2.5 MOA and many at this quality level were $700 or more WITHOUT a scope. The cheaper alternative was to take something with a proven bolt action like a 1903 or a Mauser and create a "precision-like" rifle out of it, using commonly available parts from aftermarket vendors. You could certainly put together a somewhat equivalent-to-hunting rifle for $500 or less if you didn't select a $700 optic to mount.
When I did this with my Mauser I just went kind of crazy. I call it "Crazy Mauser" because of this.
I worked up an accuracy ladder @ 550 yards the other day. Instead of shooting just one round at a time, I loaded 6 per half-grain. I had one string of six rounds that went into 2.5 inches with this rifle, and many others (when immense, gusting winds that I didn't have the experience to call accurately would let me keep them on the target) within four inches.
This sucker can SHOOT! I think I'm going to take it off sale here and develop loads for it. Instead of taking money I've saved for projectiles I'm buying a Chrony so I can really get a handle on how my loads are working.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BasraBoy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: libertyman777</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> If you want a old sniper, Gibbs sells several iterations of the 1903 sniper for $1000 with scope and all.
</div></div>
My smith bought one of these.....it's worth looking at his report before you go down this route:
http://www.thamesvalleyguns.co.uk/
Go to the article entitled "Upgrading a 1903A4" on the "Project Work" menu for his experiences.... </div></div>
This squares with some of my experiences from doing this with non-reproduction guns. Milsurps that have been hastily assembled from parts or lent out to some foreign nation as a last-ditch defense effort come back looking like your 16 year-old daughter after her third date with the love of her life: FRAZZLED!
What you younger guys have to remember is that this is a hobby from the 1980s and 1990s - this is what we did back then. There weren't really a community of precision rifle shooters beyond the narrow police and military specialty companies (read: $3k+). Most hunting rifles couldn't be expected to shoot better than 2.5 MOA and many at this quality level were $700 or more WITHOUT a scope. The cheaper alternative was to take something with a proven bolt action like a 1903 or a Mauser and create a "precision-like" rifle out of it, using commonly available parts from aftermarket vendors. You could certainly put together a somewhat equivalent-to-hunting rifle for $500 or less if you didn't select a $700 optic to mount.
When I did this with my Mauser I just went kind of crazy. I call it "Crazy Mauser" because of this.
I worked up an accuracy ladder @ 550 yards the other day. Instead of shooting just one round at a time, I loaded 6 per half-grain. I had one string of six rounds that went into 2.5 inches with this rifle, and many others (when immense, gusting winds that I didn't have the experience to call accurately would let me keep them on the target) within four inches.
This sucker can SHOOT! I think I'm going to take it off sale here and develop loads for it. Instead of taking money I've saved for projectiles I'm buying a Chrony so I can really get a handle on how my loads are working.
Re: 'Sniperize' surplus rifles?
boltstop - the point about the Gibbs M1903A3 is that it is sold as a totally refurbished rifle.
Paul's experience was of a badly restocked and prepared barrel action with incorrect parts and a "scope" that didn't merit the name.
IME there are no shortcuts if you choose to go down this road. The four options are:
1)buy an original. This is out of the question for most guys given the prices and availability of genuine vintage sniper rifles and if you do have themoney, chances are you're not going to want to shoot a rare, historical and valuable rifle as often as you might like or want.
2) Do the project properly with a good donor rifle. IME, the best way but be under no illusionas to the challenge and cost involved.
3) Buy a refurbed "as issued" rifle - can be a very good way to do this. Again not cheap but there are guys like Miltech who do great job. On the other hand you have Paul's experience of the Gibbs 1903A3 as the flip side.
4) But an old buggered up milsurp and screw a scope on it - pretty much a waste of time, effort, money and a rifle.
As they say...."Yer pays yer money and yer takes yer choice!"
boltstop - the point about the Gibbs M1903A3 is that it is sold as a totally refurbished rifle.
Paul's experience was of a badly restocked and prepared barrel action with incorrect parts and a "scope" that didn't merit the name.
IME there are no shortcuts if you choose to go down this road. The four options are:
1)buy an original. This is out of the question for most guys given the prices and availability of genuine vintage sniper rifles and if you do have themoney, chances are you're not going to want to shoot a rare, historical and valuable rifle as often as you might like or want.
2) Do the project properly with a good donor rifle. IME, the best way but be under no illusionas to the challenge and cost involved.
3) Buy a refurbed "as issued" rifle - can be a very good way to do this. Again not cheap but there are guys like Miltech who do great job. On the other hand you have Paul's experience of the Gibbs 1903A3 as the flip side.
4) But an old buggered up milsurp and screw a scope on it - pretty much a waste of time, effort, money and a rifle.
As they say...."Yer pays yer money and yer takes yer choice!"
Re: 'Sniperize' surplus rifles?
I guess it all depends on what you consider to be a "sniperised rifle" .
I built up a rifle on a Mauser 98 action on a solid alloy rail stock .
Some might consider it a sniper rifle , some might consider it a tacticool rifle, and some might consider it a piece of junk .
The fact is it is none of those tags. It's just my interpretation of a super rigid all weather stock system based on a Mauser action , because that's the spare action I had laying around. Mine would qualify as another "Crazy Mauser"
It is good advice to just buy a new commercial action or rifle and start from there if you have the cash.
However it is an interesting project to see just how good you can make a 100 year old action shoot and in my case I am fairly happy at this stage . How much money and time would you have to spend on a Model T Ford to be able to keep up with a modern car ?
A Mauser 98 action is a wonder of engineering and design when you consider when they were designed 29 years before the T model Ford .
I guess it all depends on what you consider to be a "sniperised rifle" .
I built up a rifle on a Mauser 98 action on a solid alloy rail stock .
Some might consider it a sniper rifle , some might consider it a tacticool rifle, and some might consider it a piece of junk .
The fact is it is none of those tags. It's just my interpretation of a super rigid all weather stock system based on a Mauser action , because that's the spare action I had laying around. Mine would qualify as another "Crazy Mauser"
It is good advice to just buy a new commercial action or rifle and start from there if you have the cash.
However it is an interesting project to see just how good you can make a 100 year old action shoot and in my case I am fairly happy at this stage . How much money and time would you have to spend on a Model T Ford to be able to keep up with a modern car ?
A Mauser 98 action is a wonder of engineering and design when you consider when they were designed 29 years before the T model Ford .
Re: 'Sniperize' surplus rifles?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: brand692</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I used to shoot a Mauser actioned rifle in the unlimited class.
And at 93 pounds, it was a superbly accurate rifle....
Vintage, period-correct rifles are pretty neat. But I'd never throw the money into a Mauser/Mosin/or 03 project trying to make it shoot like a modern day precision rig. </div></div>
That is a nice looking gun . The stock looks like some kind of maple maybe Rock Maple ? Love the nice straight tracking forend and butt .
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: brand692</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I used to shoot a Mauser actioned rifle in the unlimited class.
And at 93 pounds, it was a superbly accurate rifle....
Vintage, period-correct rifles are pretty neat. But I'd never throw the money into a Mauser/Mosin/or 03 project trying to make it shoot like a modern day precision rig. </div></div>
That is a nice looking gun . The stock looks like some kind of maple maybe Rock Maple ? Love the nice straight tracking forend and butt .
