Sold gun, guy commits crime, then what.??

[Duffy1298]

Well I sold a handgun to one of the guys I work with about 2 years go. Looked up Va law and it said in order to sell person to person, all you need is a bill of sale. OK. So I typed up a bill of sale, I signed it, he signed it, and I had a witness sign it. I also included the date and the handguns SN. He got orders to Cali, moved, and I haven't heard from him since....

Apparently this dude committed a pretty serious crime with MY OLD PISTOL.

My question to you guys is as follows: Is there anything I need to do as far as making sure my name isn't somehow tied to that gun still? I do NOT want to get screwed on background checks or anything like that because of this. Btw I still have the bill of sale..

 

[rpk762]

Re: Sold gun, guy commits crime, then what.??

I would not do anything. At this point your name is not on their radar. If you do not hear from them you should be good to go.

 

[Duffy1298]

Re: Sold gun, guy commits crime, then what.??

Cool. I figured as much, Ive heard nothing from anyone so I recon Ill just forget about it....

 

[Maggot]

Re: Sold gun, guy commits crime, then what.??

Is your name attached to it anywhere, or was it picked up FTF? If my name was on it I might call my attorney and see what he says, just to protect myself. Ounce of potection, and all.

 

[Duffy1298]

Re: Sold gun, guy commits crime, then what.??

I am unsure what FTF is. I went to 3 local FFls and asked them how to go about selling a gun, all three said the same thing. "Make a Bill of Sale, and thats it.". So thats what I did, and thats all Ive got.

 

[Kenny Blankenship]

Re: Sold gun, guy commits crime, then what.??

Anytime a gun is transferred via an FFL a new name is added to the record of that weapon. No names are deleted. The current owner shows as such, but your names are attached to the records the feds have on any and all guns they ever knew you possessed. It makes that old Luger you inherited from your dad even better...

 

[Sgt. 0811]

Re: Sold gun, guy commits crime, then what.??

Well, I know FTF as fail to fire or fun to fuck...either way I don't follow.

 

[Veer_G]

Re: Sold gun, guy commits crime, then what.??

FTF is "face to face." Does VA allow sale of handguns without FFLs? (Which are Federal Firearms Licensees)

 

[springer01]

Re: Sold gun, guy commits crime, then what.??

Face To Face and if you bought from an FFL and he bought Face To Face then your name is the last name that was run for the NICS. I might be worried a little probably call a lawyer if I were you just to be safe.

 

[Graham]

Re: Sold gun, guy commits crime, then what.??

Are you asking whether, if you sell a gun to someone else and legally transfer it to him, you remain responsible for what he does with it?

Or are you asking whether, if a gun you used to own is ever used in a crime, you will be prohibited from purchasing guns in the future?

 

[springer01]

Re: Sold gun, guy commits crime, then what.??

Sounds like he is worried about being tied back to the gun since it didn't go through an FFL. Just a FTF sale, while Im guessing perfectly legal (is in TX anyway) he is just wanting to cover his ass.

 

[Graham]

Re: Sold gun, guy commits crime, then what.??

What does he mean by 'tied' to the gun? It used to be his. So what? If the sale was legal what is there for him to 'cover his ass' about? I don't get it.

 

[Duffy1298]

Re: Sold gun, guy commits crime, then what.??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: springer01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sounds like he is worried about being tied back to the gun since it didn't go through an FFL. Just a FTF sale, while Im guessing perfectly legal (is in TX anyway) he is just wanting to cover his ass.</div></div>

^ This is exactly it. You aren't required to go through an FFL here in Va. I sold the gun to him legally as far as this State. Just don't want any negative attention since I was the original owner that sold privately.

 

[boltstop101]

Re: Sold gun, guy commits crime, then what.??

Its not your problem so long as he was 21 or older , and did not tell you he was a felon its not your problem if you get a call from the ATF for a trace just tell them to who and when you sold it .

The ATF called me about a gun I sold 20 years ago and I told them
"You are aware I am not a federally licensed dealer and am not obligated to abide by the rules and conditions governing the sale and transfer of firearms by licensed dealers "

They said yes sir we are aware of that .I said ok here is the information

Thank You For Your Help Have A Nice Day

 

[Duffy1298]

Re: Sold gun, guy commits crime, then what.??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Are you asking whether, if you sell a gun to someone else and legally transfer it to him, you remain responsible for what he does with it?

Or are you asking whether, if a gun you used to own is ever used in a crime, you will be prohibited from purchasing guns in the future?</div></div>

Neither, Im simply asking if I was the original owner of the gun, sold it without an FFl ( legal here in Va.) If i need to do anything in order to keep me from having any sort long assed wait periods when I buy another Firearm, or whatever else could come from this..

 

[Duffy1298]

Re: Sold gun, guy commits crime, then what.??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What does he mean by 'tied' to the gun? It used to be his. So what? If the sale was legal what is there for him to 'cover his ass' about? I don't get it.</div></div>

Im not worried about getting in any kind of trouble, I just don't want to have any sort of issues next time I purchase another firearm, renew my CC permit, or so on and so forth...

 

[Graham]

Re: Sold gun, guy commits crime, then what.??

A NICS check is a background check on you, not on the disposition of all guns you've ever sold.

 

[wIg SpLiTtEr]

Re: Sold gun, guy commits crime, then what.??

If serial numbers were traceable, wouldn't that be the definition of registration??? Im no lawyer, but personally I don't think you have anything to worry about. Last I knew, the only information that can be extracted from a NICS check is whether you applied for a long gun. handgun, or other, and whether you were denied or able to proceed. On the other hand, if you sold it to someone who was underage, your bill of sale may bite you in the ass! That is, IF he has a copy... Someone correct me if Im wrong.

S2K

 

[mulletchef]

Re: Sold gun, guy commits crime, then what.??

It is simple,if they contact you,5th admin, contact your lawyer.

 

[MtnCreek]

Re: Sold gun, guy commits crime, then what.??

Per Federal law (I have no idea about VA law):
You cannot transfer a pistol to anyone who you know or have reason to believe;
Is a prohibited person
Is a resident of a State other than your own
Is under age 18 (yes it’s 18 for non-licensed persons)

The serial number was never given to NICS. If the police wanted to track it, they would contact the manufacturer, who would tell them what distributor they sent it to, who would tell them what FFL it went to, who would tell them who they sold it to (assuming it’s been less than 20yrs, after that, the 4473 can be destroyed). If you know this guy did something bad with the gun, the surly the police know it, so why would they even want to trace it?

 

[45.308]

Re: Sold gun, guy commits crime, then what.??

Chain of commerce: if the weapon was found at the scene of a crime or found on a person, the BATF/NICS can trace a serial number from manufacturing to the point of sale by the FFL. NICS will call the FFL and ask for a trace on that serial number; you took possession in your A&D on this date from S&W or whom ever. The FFL will most likely say, transferred to whom ever on this day. The NICS will ask for address and such listed on the 4473. If warranted, LE will contact the individual listed on the 4473 and ask to see the weapon or bill of sale. Most likely you are covered in the state of VA.

Your name on the radar, very doubtful. How long did you possess the firearm in question before selling it privately? How long did the person you transferred the firearm have it before allegedly committing a crime? You being part of the crime or name on the radar would be very hard to prove unless you bought the gun today and sold it tonight to the person who committed the crime. The crime is committed tonight or tomorrow. Now you would be on the radar. As long as question 11 on 4473 has nothing attached to your name in the NICS system, no problem.

And yes there is no serial registration but again, the gov has a way to circumvent their own law for up to 20 years. This is one of those weird gov rules, FFLs are the caretaker of a legal government document.

Bud of mine with FFL asked NICS to provide a warrant for a simple trace, he got inspected and fined out of business.

 

[wIg SpLiTtEr]

Re: Sold gun, guy commits crime, then what.??

45.308-
I don't understand how NICS or anyone else for that matter would be able to track a firearm. Just because someone was given permission to "proceed" doesn't mean they actually bought the weapon. I'm sure there's a vast number of people who filled out a 4473, were granted permission to proceed, then had their credit-card declined just to walk out and never return. Also, I have never seem my dealer back log any information regarding which guns went where. Sure, they hang on to the 4473's but again there's nothing on that document that identifies which person bought which firearm. If indeed they do know which guns went where, I don't see what all the fuss about registration is, their virtually already registered, for all original owners anyway.... Please clear me up, as I would like to better understand this common misconception among gun owners.

Thanks

 

[45.308]

Re: Sold gun, guy commits crime, then what.??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ShOoTiN2KiLl</div><div class="ubbcode-body">45.308-
I don't understand how NICS or anyone else for that matter would be able to track a firearm. Just because someone was given permission to "proceed" doesn't mean they actually bought the weapon. I'm sure there's a vast number of people who filled out a 4473, were granted permission to proceed, then had their credit-card declined just to walk out and never return. Also, I have never seem my dealer back log any information regarding which guns went where. Sure, they hang on to the 4473's but again there's nothing on that document that identifies which person bought which firearm. If indeed they do know which guns went where, I don't see what all the fuss about registration is, their virtually already registered, for all original owners anyway.... Please clear me up, as I would like to better understand this common misconception among gun owners.

Thanks </div></div>

PM sent

 

[nashlaw]

Re: Sold gun, guy commits crime, then what.??

When I had my dealer's license, I sold a Charter Bulldog to an enterprising young man that, along with 2 accomplices, went on a home invasion/robbery spree. He was caught and prosecuted and I never heard a word from the authorities. If I had been questioned, my paperwork was in perfect order.

 

[JesseBB]

If he moved to Kalifornia he had X-number of days to register any hand guns. If he did not and gets arrested for something, and they discover he has an unregistered handgun, he could be convicted of a crime involving a firearm and would be bared from owning or possessing a firearm for eleven years.