You do not want to crack that door open…………Sounds like Frank is finally going to take my advice and make everyone take an IQ test to be on this site.
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Watching it roll out in real time was something to behold, Frank. I cant speak for any of the members, but it sure seemed like SJA deserved most of what they got. Just when you thought things were bad, they’d get worse. Then SJA would respond flippantly, then their posts would disappear, then they’d fuck up again. Ive never seen anything like it. I guess what i’m saying is it just doesn't surprise me that the thread developed the way it did.
I'm not on either side of this dispute, I'm not the offender in any of this, and this is all outside of my wheel-house and above my pay grade. I'm just going to steer clear of what appears to be a particular stage in an ongoing saga.
Could someone post a link to the thread in question for us slow types?
I get that, and they fully admitted to fucking up, they basically had 2 people speaking out of turn not knowing the other had said something.
But then the dog pile started and the comments turned to just keeping the thread on top. Which was just driving nails over one barrel
No one of you has ever stated how a pre fit barrel hand tight chipped an inner thread. Remember they didn’t install the barrel the customer did. So answer me how hand tight work like that ?
It’s been remedied and ever when I got the call, the customer wasn’t gonna let them make it right even through Ted. I had to convince him to allow them to do the right thing. I personally think the internet was giving him too much attention and he was enjoying it.
But let people make it right, I get the originally thought they were and fucked it but in the end the covered everything and then some for the guy. Even the background check fees to get the new if he wanted.
This one place, that one barrel, and your group reaction probably killed em. They are most likely done cuz you felt it was deserved, talk about cancel culture, next level.
What’s a pre fit today $800, the action $1000 all said and done, you nuked a resource over $1800 and put another nail in the coffin
for all of us. After reading the, they deserved it posts, who would risk interacting with you all know it alls.
But then the dog pile started and the comments turned to just keeping the thread on top. Which was just driving nails over one barrel
No one of you has ever stated how a pre fit barrel hand tight chipped an inner thread. Remember they didn’t install the barrel the customer did. So answer me how hand tight work like that ?
It’s been remedied and ever when I got the call, the customer wasn’t gonna let them make it right even through Ted. I had to convince him to allow them to do the right thing. I personally think the internet was giving him too much attention and he was enjoying it.
But let people make it right, I get the originally thought they were and fucked it but in the end the covered everything and then some for the guy. Even the background check fees to get the new if he wanted.
This one place, that one barrel, and your group reaction probably killed em. They are most likely done cuz you felt it was deserved, talk about cancel culture, next level.
What’s a pre fit today $800, the action $1000 all said and done, you nuked a resource over $1800 and put another nail in the coffin
for all of us. After reading the, they deserved it posts, who would risk interacting with you all know it alls.100%I get that, and they fully admitted to fucking up, they basically had 2 people speaking out of turn not knowing the other had said something.
But then the dog pile started and the comments turned to just keeping the thread on top. Which was just driving nails over one barrel
No one of you has ever stated how a pre fit barrel hand tight chipped an inner thread. Remember they didn’t install the barrel the customer did. So answer me how hand tight work like that ?
It’s been remedied and ever when I got the call, the customer wasn’t gonna let them make it right even through Ted. I had to convince him to allow them to do the right thing. I personally think the internet was giving him too much attention and he was enjoying it.
But let people make it right, I get the originally thought they were and fucked it but in the end the covered everything and then some for the guy. Even the background check fees to get the new if he wanted.
This one place, that one barrel, and your group reaction probably killed em. They are most likely done cuz you felt it was deserved, talk about cancel culture, next level.
What’s a pre fit today $800, the action $1000 all said and done, you nuked a resource over $1800 and put another nail in the coffin
For a website full of “non cancel” culture members, follow the law, keep your eyes to yourself, don’t worry about me…etc
They cancel anything that is even remotely different than the group think tank.
That goes the same for the company. They could have said that they were looking into the situation and trying to resolve it. They could have said that there were screwups and were trying to make it right for both parties. $1800 is not a big hit for any company to write off in multiple ways. Especially if they are involved in a public shit show on an open forum. Eating $1800 would have been better advertising than whatever they are paying to advertise here. Reference the recent vortex issue.I get that, and they fully admitted to fucking up, they basically had 2 people speaking out of turn not knowing the other had said something.
But then the dog pile started and the comments turned to just keeping the thread on top. Which was just driving nails over one barrel
No one of you has ever stated how a pre fit barrel hand tight chipped an inner thread. Remember they didn’t install the barrel the customer did. So answer me how hand tight work like that ?
It’s been remedied and ever when I got the call, the customer wasn’t gonna let them make it right even through Ted. I had to convince him to allow them to do the right thing. I personally think the internet was giving him too much attention and he was enjoying it.
But let people make it right, I get the originally thought they were and fucked it but in the end the covered everything and then some for the guy. Even the background check fees to get the new if he wanted.
This one place, that one barrel, and your group reaction probably killed em. They are most likely done cuz you felt it was deserved, talk about cancel culture, next level.
What’s a pre fit today $800, the action $1000 all said and done, you nuked a resource over $1800 and put another nail in the coffin
i can't believe no one picked up on this. you boys are SLIPPING.
Maybe after the fact it could be summed up as a one fuckup, but in real time it was a stack of fuck ups over period of time. Jaw dropping fuckups.I get that, and they fully admitted to fucking up, they basically had 2 people speaking out of turn not knowing the other had said something.
But then the dog pile started and the comments turned to just keeping the thread on top. Which was just driving nails over one barrel
No one of you has ever stated how a pre fit barrel hand tight chipped an inner thread. Remember they didn’t install the barrel the customer did. So answer me how hand tight work like that ?
It’s been remedied and ever when I got the call, the customer wasn’t gonna let them make it right even through Ted. I had to convince him to allow them to do the right thing. I personally think the internet was giving him too much attention and he was enjoying it.
But let people make it right, I get the originally thought they were and fucked it but in the end the covered everything and then some for the guy. Even the background check fees to get the new if he wanted.
This one place, that one barrel, and your group reaction probably killed em. They are most likely done cuz you felt it was deserved, talk about cancel culture, next level.
What’s a pre fit today $800, the action $1000 all said and done, you nuked a resource over $1800 and put another nail in the coffin
Regarding the torn thread. Doesn't surprise me at all. It was mentioned by someone privy to the barrel removal attempt at SJA(they watched it apparently) that they heated the action and at one point the guy’s entire body weight (like feet dangling) was on the breaker bar trying to unscrew the barrel. That thread was where the galling piled up, and that thread tore out. The customer may have gotten it galled up, but SJA tore that thread. SJA should know this. Totally predictable. Im actually surprised they tried that, machining it out seemed like the obvious route. Then they sold that abused receiver to a customer, or at least they thought they did. I know im not the only one who thought that was batshit crazy, but nobody actually called them out on it if I recall. That receiver was trashed, and a giant lawsuit waiting to happen, which is why Ted stepped in long before the final outcome.
The forum was looking at that $1800 from the opposite perspective you are now. Here was hide commercial supporter burning down their own business over $1800. Just one more astonishing thing to this whole mess.
I have zero history with SJA, just my outside looking in perspective.
Reread post 13. It is also now gone so nothing to link even if I wanted to which I don't.
This one is better than the other. Anytime @Sparky really gets involved it's pretty good. The pics of Frank with the shot iPhone were from her in one of the last (now gone) Flip threads.
We're lucky to have a place with as many knowledgeable people as there are here. You have machinists, hired guns, businesses and enthusiasts in one place. We all have different lifestyles and locales but gravitate to sites just like this for intel, trading and inspiration.
Thanks for keeping it real Frank.
Thanks for keeping it real Frank.
End of the day it is looking more and more this place might need one of the many turnovers
Too many too sure they have all the answers and the weight of this places is being abused by all the bad intentions. Wrecking shit has become a team sport to a lot of you.
Mere fact Dan thinks he is arbiter of truth speaks volumes, it’s void of self reflection, or understanding of the world we live in today.
I get basing decisions on something like this, but you all carried it for 6 pages beyond to send a message, which cost them in excess of $20k. Then you followed them to other forums to make sure your message was not forgotten. If you don’t see the harm in that, you’re a lost cause and of no use to me.
Too many too sure they have all the answers and the weight of this places is being abused by all the bad intentions. Wrecking shit has become a team sport to a lot of you.
Mere fact Dan thinks he is arbiter of truth speaks volumes, it’s void of self reflection, or understanding of the world we live in today.
I get basing decisions on something like this, but you all carried it for 6 pages beyond to send a message, which cost them in excess of $20k. Then you followed them to other forums to make sure your message was not forgotten. If you don’t see the harm in that, you’re a lost cause and of no use to me.
That seems like the way it went down. And at the same time, much of what Frank said is true.
Certainly a lot of ugly on all sides of this.
However, in defense of Frank, there were a few members of the forum who completely went out of their way to engage SJA in a completely vindictive and malicious manner. SJA was certainly deserving of some criticism, but some members took it way too far.
And I had no idea that some members went out of their way to blow this issue up on other forums, to maliciously malign SJA and tarnish their reputation.
I can see how Frank is pretty upset about all of this. This behavior is unbecoming of this forum, and it reflects poorly on Frank given that it's his site and membership engaging in this behavior. If I owned this forum, I would be really upset as well to be involved in all of this petty nonsense.
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I’m not absolving them of their fuck up, and I was honestly pissed the second time they called me. I was in the airport, I had figured it was settled. I spoke to customer, he was being made 100% whole, the new action was coming from Ted, and they were supposed to cover all costs. End of story.
What people don’t get is, I move on. In 99% of the cases, it’s one and done, zero reason to dwell on it. But in the few Burt Gummer Fuckwad cases you get a name that repeats over and over. Normally they get the hint, but some people are too stupid to realize, that’s gonna hurt.
It was the after it was settled, the gravy on the potatoes that is my issue, you can tell when the conversation turned away from the actual issue to just, a reason to bump the thread.
There in lies the center of my frustration with some of you
What people don’t get is, I move on. In 99% of the cases, it’s one and done, zero reason to dwell on it. But in the few Burt Gummer Fuckwad cases you get a name that repeats over and over. Normally they get the hint, but some people are too stupid to realize, that’s gonna hurt.
It was the after it was settled, the gravy on the potatoes that is my issue, you can tell when the conversation turned away from the actual issue to just, a reason to bump the thread.
There in lies the center of my frustration with some of you
I wasn’t going to respond but I feel like I need to. You don’t have the whole story and that’s partly my fault for not responding but the dog pile made not even think twice about it.
When the barreled action came in we tried to remove it, and we couldn’t. I called Ted and he said put heat to it and try that which we did. That also didn’t work, the whole time I was lying on the action all 245 lbs of me with 0 movement.
In the end we put it on the lathe and cut the barrel right to the threads almost enough they were paper thin. We NEVER turned the barrel as it wouldn’t. I was worried about something coming back on us so I actually recorded all of this trying to get it apart. I could have made a video saying the customer was at fault but no one knows honestly. What I do know is in all the years SJA has been in business we have never seen something that welded.
Was it hand tight, or was a wrench used? I am not going to point fingers, I told him I would still take care of it because there was never definitive proof. I don’t even sell that action as we make 0 money selling it. I had my personal action that I wanted to build something on and I had waited months for but I decided it would be better to help this customer out and I could wait for another. I was trying to do this customer right.
You can say we are POS sure, but I honestly did try and help this customer out.
When I called him a liar “which I did” what set me off was one line he said “SJA has since stopped taking my calls” and when we tried to contact through phone after seeing the post he wouldn’t answer. That’s when I got mad because he had our personal cells which we had answered from him on weekends and nights when he could talk. It torched me and I was wrong and admitted it. Wouldn’t you guys be mad if someone called your shit bad and you didn’t even see it coming?
How did the action get sent back to the customer? I’ll explain that also. When an action comes in from a customer it goes into a different book, under “gunsmithing” because it’s not needed for transfers. If any of you know Ted and the coup de grace the freaking serial number is 300 numbers long. So when the two actions we had (the bad and the good) went to the table after yes we screwed up… our shipping lady looked at the serial number and said yep, that action came in under gunsmithing for this gentleman so it has to be returned correct? Yes we screwed up and I’ll take full responsibility. But I NEVER intentionally tried to hurt this gentleman like he thought.
Some of you know me personally and follow my podcast and other companies and they can attest to I would never do something like this. The rest of you that have no idea who I am I guess I just don’t understand the pitchforks and flames. I screwed up and admitted it, and I also went above and beyond for this customer. If you think 1800.00 covered this you are pretty naive and you haven’t factored in the employee labor and refunds and time we put into this. I also sent him a check for fuel to FFl and for transfer fees, who else would care about that?
If you research the forums in the last year since I took over you will find no issue with SJA and a ton of happy customers. This was one issue and yes it wasn’t handled with 100% grace but it was ONE issue out of all the orders we have closed. I even reached out directly with a couple of customers that were commenting on that thread and had great discussions, I apologized for any issues they have had and hopefully might see them back as customers in the future.
We all need to realize a lot of other companies within the industry have seen the post and reached out directly to me. It painted SH in a negative light with them saying man I would never sponsor that because of this. You guys need to understand you are fucking with Franks livelihood by burning everything you see as it turns off sponsors. Think about that next time you want to go off.
I’m still sponsoring SH because it’s a solid place for people to come learn and discuss unlike the screwed up social media platforms I and the rest of the firearms industry are fighting against. I’m not stopping my support and I appreciate Frank for actually letting me voice my side of what happened before jumping to conclusions. Hell I think I’m actually paying for supporter plus and commercial supporter too but whatever as long as it helps us have a place to talk shooting.
For some of you I would love to sit and have a whiskey with ya sometime and talk shooting and life in general. I appreciate those that have reached out and given us support and I hope to support SH with upcoming deals and specials to show our appreciation.
Thank you.
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I only responded twice and yes I deleted one of them. Not sure of all these other posts you are talking about? Don’t think Nick said anything but I never saw it. I called him a liar and shouldn’t have, and apologized. But the whole story was never posted but I never got a chance to answer due to the pitchforks so I gave up and turned the phone off
@StraightJacketArmory I watched the whole thread. What I saw was SJA being as transparent as possible and 100% trying to make it right. While you definitely stuck your own foot in your own ass to the knee cap at one point based on a misunderstanding, You owned it all and made it right. I'd support SJA in the future.
Can I be a mod?
I really wanna be a mod.
Bring back Deersniper, cuz this BurtG guy is a serious douche.
I really wanna be a mod.
Bring back Deersniper, cuz this BurtG guy is a serious douche.
Shout out to frank. Thank you for all that you do and for creating this great sight. An absolute wealth of knowledge for gun stuff. Damn shame it takes 1 shit stain to fuck it up for everyone.
SJA spun up a hell of a barrel for my Zeus. Same with Bugholes. Love both of them! I didn’t even know drama was going down. Sorry folks. Too much flying going on, and global bar hopping 
Let’s just put it this way. My safe word is “What safe word?”
Oh man, I’m not cool enough to drive one of those trucks. I do a decent enough job of pulling trim with my mom’s old Camry though
Id love to respond, but I dont think it’s appropriate in this thread.
A very fitting bear pit thread, drama and dildos.
Be a man.......
I would have thought that post never would have been made in here either, but here we are. Maybe it’ll get deleted.
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Straight Jacket may make a good product, but you have a serious customer service issue. This is not the only issue that I know of where you left a customer high and dry, and made promises that you could not deliver on.
The gun industry is very unique in that there are several variables that can affect the performance of the final product. Building customer confidence in your product should be your highest priority. That includes making a quality product that meets the customer's expectations in a timely manner.
You may make the best barrel/product in the world, but if your service is lacking, you will spend most of your energy defending your reputation.
Butthurt Burt
I don’t think most saw the thread and Burt’s schedule at work should be ramping up about this time of year. Keep your bussiness related grievances to the BBB site Burt.
Burt seems like a nice enough guy albeit apt to pick up and chew on bones better left alone. ADHD with a touch of Justice Warrior maybe? Could be the result of watching too many power rangers episodes growing up.
I don’t think most saw the thread and Burt’s schedule at work should be ramping up about this time of year. Keep your bussiness related grievances to the BBB site Burt.
Burt seems like a nice enough guy albeit apt to pick up and chew on bones better left alone. ADHD with a touch of Justice Warrior maybe? Could be the result of watching too many power rangers episodes growing up.
Air your grievance on the BBB site. That is what it’s for. Not here.
I read about 15 - 20 of the posts in the original thread. Enough to formulate a basic opinion, but I generally stay away from the bulk of drama because I don't have a lot of room for that in my life.
However, there is a time where we need to realize the simplistic beauty of keeping our moths shut (I recognize the irony of my post).
Kudos to you. Unfortunately not everyone has learned to take their lumps and let time heal wounds. Nobody will be 'right' anymore in the argument, so coming back with one final point over and over again will only prolong the beatings.
I have nothing of value to contribute, so I'll see myself out the door and not be back to this episode.
I believe it was Princeton University that did a lengthy study on the matter of decision-making, ideology, values, beliefs, and concluded that only 12% of people engage in independent research and arrive at their own informed conclusions based on research and analysis, while 88% of people [all across the political spectrum] simply defer to authority figures or make decisions based on emotionalist thinking.
A lot of hardcore rightists are their own flavor of authoritarian and are every bit as virulent as the hardcore leftists, especially when it comes to piling on and canceling people who step out of the herd or break from the pack.
Cancel culture is not merely a Leftist phenomenon, it is alive and raging within Right/conservative circles as well.
A few gunsmiths have posted that this is a common thing, when they have the barrel in the lathe and and are test fitting the action on new cut threads it will get stuck and gall the threads. One smith posted not if but when.
Wow, way to be a braggart Mr 3 inches.
my only add is that jumping forums to spread the fire is a pure dick move
I know absolutely nothing about this particular incident, but if stainless was involved I believe it for sure. I've screwed stainless together by hand with lots of never-seize only to have it lock up halfway BY HAND and bring all the threads off with it when finally removed.
Just checked.
Still not a mod.
This site sucks.
Still not a mod.
This site sucks.
Beyond that in my book. It sounds like one of the reach around clubs, was caught red handed. I don't know anything about this dust up, but long ago 2 similar events took place. We lost 2 fair size groups, but at the end of the day the Hide was better because of it.
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