Something kicking off in Israel

#4,701
Two recent takes, one from IDF General (#rip to his career, that level dissent probably going to be tolerated) and from US based analyst:


Pace's take:

www.foreignaffairs.com

Hamas Is Winning

Why Israel’s failing strategy makes its enemy stronger.
www.foreignaffairs.com www.foreignaffairs.com

IDF Gen. take:

1719345574643.png
 
#4,702
chrome said:
Two recent takes, one from IDF General (#rip to his career, that level dissent probably going to be tolerated) and from US based analyst:


Pace's take:

www.foreignaffairs.com

Hamas Is Winning

Why Israel’s failing strategy makes its enemy stronger.
www.foreignaffairs.com www.foreignaffairs.com

IDF Gen. take:

View attachment 8446446
Click to expand...

Hamas is just a convenient pretext for Israel to wage war on Gaza and Palestine. It gives Israel an excuse to completely disregard any potential of a 2 state solution. I don't think they have any intention of actually ridding Palestine of Hamas. Even if they did, I agree with that spokesperson - that's an impossible task.

This is why Netanyahus government has propped up Hamas for years. Hamas doesn't exist without Israel and Netanyahu.
 
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#4,703
chrome said:
Two recent takes, one from IDF General (#rip to his career, that level dissent probably going to be tolerated) and from US based analyst:


Pace's take:

www.foreignaffairs.com

Hamas Is Winning

Why Israel’s failing strategy makes its enemy stronger.
www.foreignaffairs.com www.foreignaffairs.com

IDF Gen. take:

View attachment 8446446
Click to expand...
guy has a brain and balls. guess he is not down with a bunch of casualties for no gain. around the web,it is said that IDF has 70K casualties,KIA unknown. who knows the truth? in israel benni is not CIC of iDF. different system there. if it was in US,he would likely be suicidal or have kiddi porn found on his comp.
 
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#4,704
kthomas said:
Hamas is just a convenient pretext for Israel to wage war on Gaza and Palestine. It gives Israel an excuse to completely disregard any potential of a 2 state solution. I don't think they have any intention of actually ridding Palestine of Hamas. Even if they did, I agree with that spokesperson - that's an impossible task.

This is why Netanyahus government has propped up Hamas for years. Hamas doesn't exist without Israel and Netanyahu.
Click to expand...

Agreed across the board. Seems like it is sporadically covered in the media here in the states is covering what is going on in the west bank currently, i.e. the real prize of annexation they are signaling they want, as they push more settlers further and further into the area with the backing of gov force.

A recent quote:

"As well as serving as finance minister, Smotrich serves as a minister at Israel’s defence ministry, including with responsibility for the Civil Administration, which oversees Israel’s occupation of the West Bank.

As the Guardian revealed last week, the Israeli military recently quietly handed over significant legal powers in the occupied West Bank to pro-settler civil servants working for Smotrich.'


www.theguardian.com

Israeli far-right minister speaks of effort to annex West Bank

Bezalel Smotrich says he aims to establish sovereignty over occupied territory and thwart a Palestinian state
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
 
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#4,706
Turkey wanting to enter BRICS and now this.

RT Erdogan: "Netanyahu is mentally ill" - "Deplorable" Western support for Israel​

"Turkey stands in solidarity with Lebanon"​


warnews247-gr.translate.goog

Ρ.Τ. Ερντογάν: «Ψυχικά άρρωστος ο Νετανιάχου» – «Αξιοθρήνητη» η στήριξη της Δύσης στο Ισραήλ

Ο πρόεδρος της Τουρκίας Ταγίπ Ερντογάν δήλωσε σήμερα ότι η Τουρκία είναι αλληλέγγυα με τον Λίβανο στον απόηχο των αυξανόμενων εντάσεων με το Ισραήλ και κάλεσε τις περιφερειακές χώρες να στηρίξουν και…
warnews247-gr.translate.goog warnews247-gr.translate.goog

"Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan said today that Turkey stands in solidarity with Lebanon in the wake of rising tensions with Israel and called on regional countries to support Beirut.

Speaking to his party's caucus in the Turkish parliament, Erdogan said Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu was planning to spread the war in Gaza to the region and that this would be "disastrous" and described the West's support for Israel as "deplorable".

"It seems that Israel, which destroyed Gaza, is now turning its sights on Lebanon. We see that Western powers are supporting Israel behind the scenes ," the Turkish president said before his party's deputies in parliament."
 
#4,709
UKDslayer said:
www.thegatewaypundit.com

Victims, Families of Oct. 7 Hamas Terrorist Attacks Sue UNRWA for $1 Billion | The Gateway Pundit | by Margaret Flavin

The Gateway Pundit reported that Joe Biden reversed a Trump policy by sending $1 billion to UNRWA since he entered office.
www.thegatewaypundit.com www.thegatewaypundit.com

UN funded Oct. 7?
Click to expand...

I thought a lot of that UNRWA stuff was debunked. Israel put out hit pieces blaming UNRWA to deflect and obfuscate from their own failures (and possible purposeful neglect) in October 7th.
 
#4,710
A lot of damning investigative journalism coming out right now exposing that Israel knew exactly that the October 7th attacks were going to happen, and deliberately allowed it to happen to provide pretext for an invasion of the strip.
 
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#4,712
kthomas said:
I thought a lot of that UNRWA stuff was debunked. Israel put out hit pieces blaming UNRWA to deflect and obfuscate from their own failures (and possible purposeful neglect) in October 7th.
Click to expand...
Fwiw:

"Israeli authorities have not provided "any supporting evidence" to back up allegations that United Nations agency for Palestinian refugees employees are members of groups that attacked Israel on 7 October, a review led by the former French foreign minister Catherine Colonna has said.

The Colonna report, which was commissioned by the UN to look at Unrwa's operations and policies in the wake of Israel's allegations and released on Monday, said Israeli authorities have not responded to letters from Unrwa in March and April requesting names and evidence in order to open an investigation."


www.middleeasteye.net

Israel has not provided any evidence of Unrwa staff link to Hamas, review finds

Israel has not informed UN agency of any concrete concerns relating to staff since 2011, independent review finds
www.middleeasteye.net www.middleeasteye.net
 
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#4,722
chrome said:
Two recent takes, one from IDF General (#rip to his career, that level dissent probably going to be tolerated) and from US based analyst:


Pace's take:

www.foreignaffairs.com

Hamas Is Winning

Why Israel’s failing strategy makes its enemy stronger.
www.foreignaffairs.com www.foreignaffairs.com

IDF Gen. take:

View attachment 8446446
Click to expand...
channeling smedly butler seems like
 
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#4,726
Doctorwho1138 said:


They are open about what they want. All you have to do is listen.
Click to expand...

theLBC said:
i think israel will survive.

france? i am not so sure.

Click to expand...


Doctorwho1138 said:
This is the truth. England, Ireland, Germany and France are all in bad shape and may never recover. They are well on their way to becoming Islamic states.
Click to expand...

And the angel of the LORD said to her, “Behold, you are pregnant and shall bear a son. You shall call his name Ishmael, because the LORD has listened to your affliction. He shall be a wild donkey of a man, his hand against everyone and everyone’s hand against him, and he shall dwell over against all his kinsmen.” - Genesis 16:11-12
 
#4,730

Silent embargo hits Israel's ammo supplies amid Gaza conflict​



"According to these reports, selected arms suppliers from European countries have ceased contact with their Israeli trade partners.
The "Kalkalist" daily also reported that one of the "foreign powers, which is not the USA and previously traded with Israel," refused to supply raw materials for ammunition production after October 7, 2023.

While the attention of the Israeli public is focused on military aid provided by the USA and the related tensions, the Ministry of Defense and the Israeli army staff are concerned about ammunition shortages following the informal boycott by other countries, the newspaper noted.

The "NYT" daily reported at the beginning of July that the Israeli army in the Gaza Strip began to conserve tank shells to keep some of them for a possible offensive against Hezbollah, which has been attacking the north of the country.

The daily also emphasized that aside from the political context complicating arms imports to Israel, one must also consider the situation in the global market. This market is experiencing an ammunition shortage, which is being intensely consumed not only in the Gaza Strip but also in Ukraine."

Let's look beyond this a bit: if the global market is experiencing an ammo shortage, how are we going to wage a kinetic world war for any decisive amount of time? Other than nukes, I mean.
 
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#4,736
One from Haaretz that seems to slowly trickle to independent media this week:


[The 11:22 a.m. message] was understood by everyone. . . At this point, the IDF was not aware of the extent of kidnapping along the Gaza border, but it did know that many people were involved. Thus, it was entirely clear what the message meant, and what the fate of some of the kidnapped people would be
Click to expand...


www.haaretz.com

IDF ordered Hannibal directive on October 7 to prevent Hamas taking soldiers captive

***
www.haaretz.com www.haaretz.com
 
Last edited:
#4,738
Malum Prohibitum said:
It is behind a paywall.

What is the Hannibal order? Shoot the hostages?
Click to expand...
Haaretz is a known leftist news site. I don’t know what the Hannibal order is either but take whatever they say with a grain of salt. They have an agenda and they will slant facts and intentionally present their information to fit their chosen narrative. Not saying everything that they report is junk but you need corroborating news from other more centered or right leaning news agencies to get to the truth.
 
#4,740
Looks like it was first suspected early Oct. Reported early Jan. Further supported with the sources Harretz covered.

Ynet covered it as well. Not sure where they lean ideologically in israel press.



www.ynet.co.il

ההוראה: למנוע ממחבלים לחזור לעזה "בכל מחיר", גם אם יש איתם חטופים

תחקיר הכאוס בשעות הראשונות של 7 באוקטובר: פקודות מבולבלות, טייסים שלא היה מי שינחה אותם לתקוף מחבלים, והוראה לירות בכל כלי הרכב שחוזרים לעזה – למרות החשש שיש בהם חטופים. התחקיר המלא, שמשרטט דקה אחר דקה את בוקר המתקפה, יפורסם מחר במוסף "7 ימים" של "ידיעות אחרונות"
www.ynet.co.il www.ynet.co.il
 
#4,741
chrome said:
Looks like it was first suspected early Oct. Reported early Jan. Further supported with the sources Harretz covered.

Ynet covered it as well. Not sure where they lean ideologically in israel press.



www.ynet.co.il

ההוראה: למנוע ממחבלים לחזור לעזה "בכל מחיר", גם אם יש איתם חטופים

תחקיר הכאוס בשעות הראשונות של 7 באוקטובר: פקודות מבולבלות, טייסים שלא היה מי שינחה אותם לתקוף מחבלים, והוראה לירות בכל כלי הרכב שחוזרים לעזה – למרות החשש שיש בהם חטופים. התחקיר המלא, שמשרטט דקה אחר דקה את בוקר המתקפה, יפורסם מחר במוסף "7 ימים" של "ידיעות אחרונות"
www.ynet.co.il www.ynet.co.il
Click to expand...

Not sure how I fall on all of this the government knew before it happened stuff honestly. Every major event in modern history has those conspiracy theories from Pearl Harbor to 9/11. Fact of the matter is that Hamas and in turn Palestine provoked this entire war by coming into Israel and committing atrocious acts of violence. There is no justification for those actions no matter how anyone feels about anything else. Those acts alone has made anything Israel has done in retaliation justified. I have said it before I am not a fan of either but between two evils, Hamas and the Nation of Islam poses more of a threat to us and our way of life than anyone. They hate the west and want the entire world to become a Nation of Islam. You don’t even have interpret their desire, they openly state it and show it time and time again.
 
#4,742
Doctorwho1138 said:
Not sure how I fall on all of this the government knew before it happened stuff honestly. Every major event in modern history has those conspiracy theories from Pearl Harbor to 9/11. Fact of the matter is that Hamas and in turn Palestine provoked this entire war by coming into Israel and committing atrocious acts of violence. There is no justification for those actions no matter how anyone feels about anything else. Those acts alone has made anything Israel has done in retaliation justified. I have said it before I am not a fan of either but between two evils, Hamas and the Nation of Islam poses more of a threat to us and our way of life than anyone. They hate the west and want the entire world to become a Nation of Islam. You don’t even have interpret their desire, they openly state it and show it time and time again.
Click to expand...

I can definitely agree with you on your first few sentiments. It is much more probable a government is chalk full of retards and their complacency/stupidity leads to the outcomes we see daily vs the inside job conspiracy theories. Not saying a lot of conspiracy theories haven't been shown to be true over the years across the international landscape, but if forced to rank vote, idiots doing idiot things is my first vote.

I also agree Hamas started the OCT 7 chapter of this decades long conflict and committed heinous war crimes against innocent people. But i diverge from the idea that Israel doesn't have culpability in the broader conflict. Something we've attempted to adjudicate in prior posts.
 
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#4,743
en.wikipedia.org

Hannibal Directive - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

The Hannibal Directive (Hebrew: נוהל חניבעל, romanized: Nóhal Khanibaál), also translated as Hannibal Procedure or Hannibal Protocol, is the name of a controversial procedure used by Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) to prevent the capture of Israeli soldiers by enemy forces. According to one version, it says that "the kidnapping must be stopped by all means, even at the price of striking and harming our own forces."[2]
 
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#4,744
Pharmseller said:
en.wikipedia.org

Hannibal Directive - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

The Hannibal Directive (Hebrew: נוהל חניבעל, romanized: Nóhal Khanibaál), also translated as Hannibal Procedure or Hannibal Protocol, is the name of a controversial procedure used by Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) to prevent the capture of Israeli soldiers by enemy forces. According to one version, it says that "the kidnapping must be stopped by all means, even at the price of striking and harming our own forces."[2]
Click to expand...
and?
 
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#4,745
good question-idiocy vs conspiracy. idiots do conspiracies also. regarding some of the big ones: pearl,9/11,tonkin,10/7,WMDs i would lean to the idea that these events were known to be coming before they did and those events were allowed to build and to play out. the outraged responses by gov were manufactured and fit the desired narrative. i don't think any of those were planned ahead of time by the gov. they were known to be coming and helped along by ignoring them until a shocked "public" could be guided to the desired response. i think same re 11/22/63. i don't think LBJ planned it. i think he knew,approved and let it happen. most politicians,not all,are too stupid to make and carry out complex plans. they are all corrupt enough to take the benefits.
on the other hand,covid was a preconceived,multifaceted,well planned,and executed operation. i think the players were surprised at how well it worked. the repeat is scheduled.
 
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#4,746
chrome said:
I can definitely agree with you on your first few sentiments. It is much more probable a government is chalk full of retards and their complacency/stupidity leads to the outcomes we see daily vs the inside job conspiracy theories. Not saying a lot of conspiracy theories haven't been shown to be true over the years across the international landscape, but if forced to rank vote, idiots doing idiot things is my first vote.

I also agree Hamas started the OCT 7 chapter of this decades long conflict and committed heinous war crimes against innocent people. But i diverge from the idea that Israel doesn't have culpability in the broader conflict. Something we've attempted to adjudicate in prior posts.
Click to expand...
The Islamic territories do not and have not ever wanted the state of Israel to exist. For them (Israel), it is a constant battle of self preservation. Palestine has never existed as a country historically and is not an ethic group as they would like people to believe. Israel certainly isn’t the entirely innocent victim here but the huge brunt of the entire conflict lies on the Islamic state. War is ugly and don’t start a conflict that you can’t win. Palestine has a history of starting conflicts and it’s time to put that baby to bed. Israel has every right to see this to an end which is the total annihilation and defeat of Hamas. Nothing like this should ever happen again.
 
#4,747
Doctorwho1138 said:
The Islamic territories do not and have not ever wanted the state of Israel to exist. For them (Israel), it is a constant battle of self preservation. Palestine has never existed as a country historically and is not an ethic group as they would like people to believe. Israel certainly isn’t the entirely innocent victim here but the huge brunt of the entire conflict lies on the Islamic state. War is ugly and don’t start a conflict that you can’t win. Palestine has a history of starting conflicts and it’s time to put that baby to bed. Israel has every right to see this to an end which is the total annihilation and defeat of Hamas. Nothing like this should ever happen again.
Click to expand...

I agree with your last sentence. We probably just differ on the methods to get there.
 
#4,748
i would agree in principal that israel has an excuse and a reason to sterilize gaza,the w bank and even southern lebanon. the question comes if israeli gov had evidence of the attack coming and ignored or aided it by deliberate negligence. the issue of chronic israeli attrocities in gaza/w.bank has been raised by some of their critics. i have no idea if that is true. believable and,in some ways,understandable. israel has been subjected to chronic atrocities for years. not admitted in the US but israel has a lot of control,power and influence in DC and in msm. so,some alleged crimes could easily be obscured. the issue of netanyahu being a subject of mass protest and attempting seizure of dictatorial power before 10/7 is a serious consideration.
in the final analysis,who the fuck knows what is going on or if anything is true?
 
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#4,750
Like in many circles these days this just proves time & money is more important. Plus many in leadership believe if you were captured you worthless in the first place, and not worth the follow on. Only when the masses wake up to the fact they are disposable and/or test subjects will things change,... which will be never for most. Earthly humanity needs a margin call,

www.haaretz.com

IDF ordered Hannibal directive on October 7 to prevent Hamas taking soldiers captive

***
www.haaretz.com www.haaretz.com
 
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