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Gunsmithing Southbend Model A

spife7980

Luchador
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Minuteman
Feb 10, 2017
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Central TX
We got this old school lathe from a retired shop teacher who can’t get out to the shop like he felt he needed to so he passed it in to us for free and I’m not really sure what I would do with it other than little ranch puddly things that simply aren’t made anymore at a last resort. No idea how to use one myself.

Can I do anything cool with it? (I don’t know how to tell if it’s worth a damn)

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Hell yeah those old South Bends are well made. I see a 3 jaw chuck in the second pic. That will be handy. The only thing I'd do would be to try to fit a modern tool holder on there Like an Aloris AXA. Check the bucket for a tail stock mounted drill chuck.
 
Hell yeah those old South Bends are well made. I see a 3 jaw chuck in the second pic. That will be handy. The only thing I'd do would be to try to fit a modern tool holder on there Like an Aloris AXA. Check the bucket for a tail stock mounted drill chuck.
I’ll have to get back to it next weekend but I feel like there was one in there. I know there were a bunch of other little cutting tools like the one mounted already, presumably different angles.

Never used a lathe, glad to hear that this one wouldn’t be the worst thing to learn on provided 50-70 years of use haven’t worn it completely out.
Now to learn the very basics…
 
I’ll have to get back to it next weekend but I feel like there was one in there. I know there were a bunch of other little cutting tools like the one mounted already, presumably different angles.

Never used a lathe, glad to hear that this one wouldn’t be the worst thing to learn on provided 50-70 years of use haven’t worn it completely out.
Now to learn the very basics…
Those old South Bends are held in high regards. I've never owned one, but I'd just clean it up and check the head bearings. Replacements wouldn't be hard to find. Edit: Scratch that last part. I think this is a 9A so no bearings in the head stock. That will be a great lathe to learn on. Check out the little machine shop forum. They probably have threads specific to that lathe. A quick change tool post would make it super handy.

One example: I made bushings for my SAC seating die that press in the bottom to neck it down for .224 Valkyrie & 6 ARC sized cases.
 
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The old south bends and atlas lathes are pretty sought after. Once you get it cleaned up and learn a little bit you'll wonder how you ever got along without it. I ended up with a jet 1336 from an estate sale about ten years ago. It was in dire need of some tlc so this winter I started tearing into it cleaning and replacing a few bearings and seals. Now that it's in pieces it seems like I need it every time I turn around. Can't wait to have it together again.
 
We got this old school lathe from a retired shop teacher who can’t get out to the shop like he felt he needed to so he passed it in to us for free and I’m not really sure what I would do with it other than little ranch puddly things that simply aren’t made anymore at a last resort. No idea how to use one myself.

Can I do anything cool with it? (I don’t know how to tell if it’s worth a damn)

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Had the same one till the rust took its toll.
Looks like you could do machine cut threads with that set up.
 
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Start by scrubbing the holy beejeezus out of it.
Then come back and ask.
The crud is so thick it's easily mistaken for a racoon fucking an alley cat.
This is still cracking me up the next day lol

Hell yeah those old South Bends are well made. I see a 3 jaw chuck in the second pic. That will be handy. The only thing I'd do would be to try to fit a modern tool holder on there Like an Aloris AXA. Check the bucket for a tail stock mounted drill chuck.
Just googled the aloris axa... maybe once I learn to make the thing spin first. Cant handle those prices just yet on something that was free and Im going to probably break.



Clean it up well and fix anything on it that doesn’t work. Hard times are coming and stuff like this will have more value than we think. Guys like @sirhrmechanic and others on here know a ton about this stuff.
Well Ive spent the morning watching youtube videos and ordering books on how to clean and then run the thing. Im getting pretty excited. Not sure Im going to do a full restoration on it like some of the videos, Ill probably just try to put new fluids in it and see if it functions before I jump in all the way.

The old south bends and atlas lathes are pretty sought after. Once you get it cleaned up and learn a little bit you'll wonder how you ever got along without it. I ended up with a jet 1336 from an estate sale about ten years ago. It was in dire need of some tlc so this winter I started tearing into it cleaning and replacing a few bearings and seals. Now that it's in pieces it seems like I need it every time I turn around. Can't wait to have it together again.
Same as above, some of those youtube restorations were a bit more in depth than Im looking to go right now. Cant imagine having all that stuff spread around to clean and then not lose.


Had the same one till the rust took its toll.
Looks like you could do machine cut threads with that set up.
Thats really all Im hoping to do and learn for now, learn to make some basic metal cutting stuff even if its all rusty and imprecise.

Hopefully 70 years of shop kids did take its toll before it sat in the gentlemans storage for a decade.
 
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You can do a lot of Cool with that!

What I like is that it's covered (I think) in sawdust. Some of these old lathes were used for wood because the owners ran out of metal projects before they ran out of time. Oily sawdust seems, in my experience, to protect the metal it coats. A bit of a pain to clean off but worth it.

I know you said you have ordered some books but please consider this https://www.ebay.com/itm/152525013342?hash=item238333015e:g:k-MAAOSwzqFY~98Q Set it with the lathe and even if you never get to it it's there for whomever gets it next. Search Ebay for Southbend 9A just to see what is out there. Find a copy of "How to Run a Lathe" a book by Southbend from the '50s and still the go to for beginners. Forget the full restoration right now. After you see what condition it is in plan from there. It can be useful without being pretty. That has character, like many of us old farts. There are a couple of easy checks that can be done to quickly check condition

There are some very desirable accessories in the photos. A collet chick with collets, a three jaw chuck, some thingys in the bucket, looks like a drill chuck on top, and what appears to be rotary table. This usually goes with a mill. Very handy.

When you have a lathe and/or a mill you look at tasks differently. PM if you have specific questions. There are many here that have more knowledge than I. But I lean more toward the garage tinkerer than the serious enthusiast or professional. I cut my first barrel threads on a 9C and I am currently spiffing up a Southbend 9B for the little projects I don't need the bigger lathe for.

Congrats,
MrSmith
 
You can do a lot of Cool with that!

What I like is that it's covered (I think) in sawdust. Some of these old lathes were used for wood because the owners ran out of metal projects before they ran out of time. Oily sawdust seems, in my experience, to protect the metal it coats. A bit of a pain to clean off but worth it.

I know you said you have ordered some books but please consider this https://www.ebay.com/itm/152525013342?hash=item238333015e:g:k-MAAOSwzqFY~98Q Set it with the lathe and even if you never get to it it's there for whomever gets it next. Search Ebay for Southbend 9A just to see what is out there. Find a copy of "How to Run a Lathe" a book by Southbend from the '50s and still the go to for beginners. Forget the full restoration right now. After you see what condition it is in plan from there. It can be useful without being pretty. That has character, like many of us old farts. There are a couple of easy checks that can be done to quickly check condition

There are some very desirable accessories in the photos. A collet chick with collets, a three jaw chuck, some thingys in the bucket, looks like a drill chuck on top, and what appears to be rotary table. This usually goes with a mill. Very handy.

When you have a lathe and/or a mill you look at tasks differently. PM if you have specific questions. There are many here that have more knowledge than I. But I lean more toward the garage tinkerer than the serious enthusiast or professional. I cut my first barrel threads on a 9C and I am currently spiffing up a Southbend 9B for the little projects I don't need the bigger lathe for.

Congrats,
MrSmith
Ha! Those were the two of the exact books I had ordered on amazon but I’ll cancel and get that kit since it has the felts and lubes with it I was mentioned elsewhere, thanks for looking out!

I didnt want it at first because it looked like an old pile of shit but after doing some looking into and with some of yalls opinions I cant wait to read those books and then get my hands dirty (but hopefully not dismembered).


Its too bad it only accepts up to 3/4" through the headstock Ive read. Id have loved to find an old rifle and have been able to use this old lathe to chamber a new barrel for it.
 
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Just googled the aloris axa... maybe once I learn to make the thing spin first. Cant handle those prices just yet on something that was free and Im going to probably break.

I agree, make sure the thing runs first. As someone else said they are sought after. You could probably get enough $ for it once cleaned up to buy a new variable speed mini lathe.

Aloris is like the AI of tooling. There are much more affordable options like this.


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@sirhrmechanic @buffalowinter
I feel like these two have some info on this stuff.
Good score!
It will be an uneconomical restoration project to have 'someone' do it for you.

But you could do it yourself and have a blast. Big issue is the ways. If they are really worn, having them restored is... spendy. Especially V-ways, which are pretty challenging to re-scrape. But you can hire that out and do the rest yourself.

So much fun you can have with a lathe!

Cheers,

Sirhr
 
"Look at me, I have a lathe, blah, blah blah" Today's generation is just spoiled. In my day...:)
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I may be guilty of "machining" various items with a drill and a grinder. If I'm feeling fancy I'll even toss a flap disc on the grinder.
 
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If you know someone in the oilfield ask them if they can get you a gallon or two of rig-wash. I've used it for cleaning old and rusty, oily engines and bilges in boats, you can use it full strength or dilute with water, for smaller, less severe cleaning. Rig-wash cuts through the crud and also seems to have some rust removing/ inhibiting properties and will save a lot of work.
Edit, I will come haul it off for you if you don't want it ;)
 
"Look at me, I have a lathe, blah, blah blah" Today's generation is just spoiled. In my day...:)
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If you are hinting that you want us to get together and buy you a lathe so you don’t have to sit cross legged on your shop floor in a nightie and use your toes as a pair of channel-locks…. We can get a fundraiser together tout suite!!!

Standing next to a lathe definitely beats sitting on a dirt floor in Birkenstocks!

Sirhr
 
If you are hinting that you want us to get together and buy you a lathe so you don’t have to sit cross legged on your shop floor in a nightie and use your toes as a pair of channel-locks…. We can get a fundraiser together tout suite!!!

Standing next to a lathe definitely beats sitting on a dirt floor in Birkenstocks!

Sirhr
I'm good, thanks.
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@spife7980
Probably one of the best beginner books on lathes....

 
@spife7980
Probably one of the best beginner books on lathes....

$5.90 on Amazon
 
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I don’t know crap about lathes. I can barely weld with my O/A setup. I hit things with a big hammer. In other words, I suck.

But this guy on YouTube (Mr Pete, Tubal Cain) is so awesome: https://www.youtube.com/user/mrpete222

Maybe he has some lathe videos.

Welding Tips and Tricks is good too, for welding obv.

Here’s a list of other YT resources (looks like Reddit links “unfurl” weird):
 
Tubalcain on YouTube
Hobby-machinist.com (I was all but run off from Practical Machinist for the mere mention of my Craftsman and Atlas projects)
 
Yeah they're not too keen on the smaller/hobby machines on PM. Another real good resource is Joe Pieczynski for all kinds of machining basics/tips/tricks https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpp6lgdc_XO_FZYJppaFa5w

Darrell Holland also did a nice course on the lathe for AGI back in the VCR tape days. It's been converted to DVD but unless they've redone it it's a poor copy of the poor tapes - and expensive unless you can find on ebay/etc. https://www.americangunsmith.com/product/full-machine-shop-course-dvd

Personally, I wouldn't put much effort/$ into that lathe unless it was just to get it cleaned up/functional or if you wanted a nice restored antique to sit in the corner like someone else said. Yes there's a lot you can do with it but at the end of the day it's a small, basic lathe in need of a lot of love. Up shot is if you do get it going and start using, you'll probably wonder how you ever got along without it and will soon be looking for something bigger/more modern.
 
You'd be surprised that despite their small size, they can be capable/accurate if tight and not clapped out from wear.
First lathe I bought a decade ago, with a 4-1/2' bed (36" between centers) I chambered some pretty accurate barrels in the steady with it at the time. I use my larger Sheldon for barrel work- but a lot of other smaller work is still done on my 9A. Outfitted with DRO and VFD, I can hold a thou with it, no problem.

There's a common misconception that small lathes are "toys" that aren't capable of accurate work and that's pure bullshit.
Ever seen a jeweler's lathe?
Rigidity is relative. You're not gonna rip off .100 of steel in a single pass. If the machine is tight- and cuts are kept within its capabilities, they can turn out smaller work every bit as good as that done on a much larger machine.

It's all about condition. Best "quick" indication is bed wear- usually indicative of overall condition. Clean up the front V-way ahead of the headstock and see if there's a groove or "lip" just below the top of the V. If none, or very minor, the rest of the machine should be in good serviceable condition.

As far as Practical Machinist goes, the above posts are incorrect. In fact, there's an entire sub-forum dedicated to the South Bend lathes- and a wealth of knowledge there. You might want to sign up, post some pictures and the serial number- which will be on the far end of the bed between the front v-way and the tailstock flat.


IF in good condition, cleaned up could be worth several grand with the collet closer. They are in extremely high demand for home shops due to their size and easy ability to break down, and take it into the basement. Should you choose to keep it, get the rebuild kit with manual on Fleabay. These old machines are total oil loss- and moving parts/bearings are lubricated via felt wicks. Replacing wicks every 7-10 years is standard maintenance (they get hard over time and don't wick oil anymore) to ensure longevity of the machine. Since this was owned by a former shop teacher (and not actually IN a high school shop being abused) it's likely well maintained and in good condition under the grime.

Mine "before", at the prior owner's shop:



After teardown/reassembly:

MHuXvyd.jpg
 
I don’t know crap about lathes. I can barely weld with my O/A setup. I hit things with a big hammer. In other words, I suck.

But this guy on YouTube (Mr Pete, Tubal Cain) is so awesome: https://www.youtube.com/user/mrpete222

Maybe he has some lathe videos.

Welding Tips and Tricks is good too, for welding obv.

Here’s a list of other YT resources (looks like Reddit links “unfurl” weird):

Abom does some good stuff, this old tony for some comedic relief also.

Also keep in mind safety, I’m not usually that guy but a lathe can ruin your day if you get caught in it. Had a buddy with a big lathe(forget the size) he had a long sleeve shirt on in his unheated shop and it grabbed his sleeve and slung him around until his wife ran out and stopped the machine. Obviously this isn’t that large, but could still hurt you.
 
It was the shop teachers but the lathe was in the high school for decades before that.

Original flaking is gone, looks like the outer v ways have a fair amount of wear.
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Unfortunately I’m missing the carriage lock bolt so I can’t do the lock on the end and test for the quarter turn .014 difference in the locking bolt heads position with the carriage at the headstock.
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Gears aren’t missing any teeth. One spot has a bit of a hitch when rotating by hand so I’ll have to figure out where that’s coming from.

Edit: no hitch when I spin it now so not sure what it was.
Couldn’t get 2 of the 3 gear box-way attachment screws out so I’m letting it soak in pb blaster for a week until the special flat bit arrives. My slightly too small wheeler one started to bend when I worked my way up to an impact wrench with no budge.
 
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The TubalCain youtube series is awesome. Machinist by trade, then high school shop vocational teacher, now internet legend.
He has hundreds of useful milling / lathe operation videos. Joe Pieczynski also is a great internet resource. They both really break down
the application steps for those in the learning mode.
 
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So the 3jaw chuck isn’t for this lathe either so all I really have is the small draw in collet system.
I have one center which doesn’t fit the tailstock.

Where is the best/your favorite place to get a combination center drill and countersink?
A 4 jaw independent chuck/ a faceplate?
Centers to fit this?
Premade cutting tooling that doesn’t require me to first accurately grind them? And is the rigid system better than the lantern system?
A center gauge and thread gauges?

Preferably cheap if I can’t use it on an upgraded lathe in the future.
 
You'll want to lose the lantern toolpost.
Fine back in the day, but too much fiddle-fucking around to get a cutter on the centerline.
Get yourself a wedge type, AXA QCTP and a half-dozen holders.

I buy most of my tooling from Shars, no complaints. You can find a decent 4-jaw and backplate there as well.
If you want to use hss cutters, check out AR Warner's kits. The inserts ain't cheap- but since they're hss you can hone/sharpen them to extend their life. If you're going to use this for barrel work, I'd recommend the VCMT insert for most of your turning- ideal for getting into the tight corners of tenon shoulders. You can get a single cutoff/groover toolholder and use it for parting, relief cuts, and threading with the different inserts. Go with the 3/8", 1/4" is on the small side (especially if you get a larger, more rigid machine down the road). Even 1/2" might work- but I think it may be a bit too large for a 9" AXA.
 
Thread gages get expensive. Thread wires are probably the cheapest. Personally I like thread pitch micrometers but they are pricey. Mitutoyo 126 or 116 series is what you're looking for.
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Picked up my 0-1", 1-2", and the required anvils for $200 from an estate sale. Brand new is $1600 for the same stuff. Can measure everything from 3.5- 64 tpi up to 2" diameter.

Thread go/ no go gages are more expensive since each set is only good for 1 thread only. Sets are ~$300 or so.

Carbide thread topping inserts are nice. Have to match the tpi and tread form though.
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Great score! I just missed one in the local classifieds for $175, it had a bunch of tooling and a couple chucks...
I had a tiny Atlas in the past, but it was missing a bunch of parts and the motor, so I traded it off.
We have multiple lathes at work, but always wanted one in the garage for quick jobs.

Check out Joe Pie on youtube, if you haven't yet. I've learned some good tips and tricks from him.
 
Great score! I just missed one in the local classifieds for $175, it had a bunch of tooling and a couple chucks...
I had a tiny Atlas in the past, but it was missing a bunch of parts and the motor, so I traded it off.
We have multiple lathes at work, but always wanted one in the garage for quick jobs.

Check out Joe Pie on youtube, if you haven't yet. I've learned some good tips and tricks from him.
That would have been a great score, I spent more than that on a chuck alone that would fit this so you would have been money ahead of me.
Watched his vids too, good stuff