Steiner 10x Military RF Bino's VS Terrapin

[verdugo60]

So I know the Terrapin will outrange anything but other Vectronix stuff but who is using the Steiner Military RF's and whats the real-worlddistance you are getting with them?

I was really impressed with the donated Steiner bino's this weekend at the SH Cup, they had great glass and spotting hits and finding targets with them was fairly easy. It occurred to me that if they will hit a Mile fairly consistently on 1-2 MOA targets that not getting a Terrapin would maybe be ok and that the bino's would serve as spotting scope (with reticle), field glass and range finder all in one unit. This is all dependent on the real ranging ability of the Steiners though so I wanted opinions from users with experience with them.

The Terrapins just rocked it this weekend, such a shame they are going away. Looks like I may get my grubby's on one if I decide to go that direction and if not can always sell it.

 

[LawnMM]

I played with a set of the 8x LRFs at the Steiner factory and I was quite impressed. I ranged pretty much anything I could see. I believe the record was a tree at around 1900ish meters, so right to the edge of what it was rated for around the 2000yd mark.

The extra mag over the 5x on the Terrapin was great. Glass was crisp and clear and the tree reticle was easy to use as well. Played with the scan mode too.

What struck me was the speed and repeat time. It feels like it acquires the range fast but I'm not sure any faster than a Terrapin. The repeat speed was definitely faster than the Terrapin though, especially in scan mode. You could range targets as fast as you planted the reticle for half a second.

For me the competition advantage is obvious, higher magnification for finding targets, a better reticle for spotting and walking people in on targets, faster repeat speed, and it is all one device. I've been carrying a monocular at 10x along with my Terrapin because 5x just doesn't get it done in every case.

If you are after a Terrapin I might have one available soon =)

Rich

 

[goatsie]

I played with a set of the 8x LRFs at the Steiner factory and I was quite impressed. I ranged pretty much anything I could see. I believe the record was a tree at around 1900ish meters, so right to the edge of what it was rated for around the 2000yd mark.

The extra mag over the 5x on the Terrapin was great. Glass was crisp and clear and the tree reticle was easy to use as well. Played with the scan mode too.

What struck me was the speed and repeat time. It feels like it acquires the range fast but I'm not sure any faster than a Terrapin. The repeat speed was definitely faster than the Terrapin though, especially in scan mode. You could range targets as fast as you planted the reticle for half a second.

For me the competition advantage is obvious, higher magnification for finding targets, a better reticle for spotting and walking people in on targets, faster repeat speed, and it is all one device. I've been carrying a monocular at 10x along with my Terrapin because 5x just doesn't get it done in every case.

If you are after a Terrapin I might have one available soon =)

Rich

Any pics of the new rangefinder? Are these monocular? What is the price range on these new ones? Thanks!

 

[verdugo60]

That's great man, just what I was looking for. Steiner could really fill the void here if their RF is truly 2000 meter capable. Like you said, if it can actually range 1-2 MOA targets out to or past 1600 yards, having the quality glass and magnification would make for a great all around package, binos, spotter and RF that you can use to find and range targets with all at the same time and then spot hits as well.

Like I said, the Steiner standard bino's at the SH Cup had very impressive glass, they are coming out with some cool stuff and seem to be an excellent value.

I'm still interested in the Terrapins, so shoot me a PM if you decide to unload yours but I would love to hear more on these Steiner Bino's with RF that will be released. Anyone heard the announce date?

I played with a set of the 8x LRFs at the Steiner factory and I was quite impressed. I ranged pretty much anything I could see. I believe the record was a tree at around 1900ish meters, so right to the edge of what it was rated for around the 2000yd mark.

The extra mag over the 5x on the Terrapin was great. Glass was crisp and clear and the tree reticle was easy to use as well. Played with the scan mode too.

What struck me was the speed and repeat time. It feels like it acquires the range fast but I'm not sure any faster than a Terrapin. The repeat speed was definitely faster than the Terrapin though, especially in scan mode. You could range targets as fast as you planted the reticle for half a second.

For me the competition advantage is obvious, higher magnification for finding targets, a better reticle for spotting and walking people in on targets, faster repeat speed, and it is all one device. I've been carrying a monocular at 10x along with my Terrapin because 5x just doesn't get it done in every case.

If you are after a Terrapin I might have one available soon =)

Rich

 

[LawnMM]

They are binocular, the price point I believe is around 2200 retail for the 8x, Scott at Liberty Optics may be able to do better. I believe they are available now

 

[Jaeger308]

I have been using a pair of the 8x, link to post http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/snipers-hide-observation-devices/244923-steiner-8x30-lrf.html

The 10x are heaver the 8x are nice, if you are after lighter weight

 

[verdugo60]

Hey Jaeger, thanks for the info. What distance are you getting on 1-2 MOA steel? Basically I want to know if these would work past 1000 yards on smaller targets (like 8-12 inch steel WITHOUT a berm behind, i.e. a flat field), big game with no backdrop, etc. Ranging at the SH Cup this past weekend had some tough targets man. Even the Terrapins were not getting it all the time without a tripod.

 

[LawnMM]

You will be hard pressed to find a laser that will do what you are asking. Most people at comps don't even try. I don't try to lase the target, I hit the ground its standing on, both sides, above it, and what I think is behind it. Bracket the target and decide on the range.

If you rely on trying to hit the actual target you are going to miss. Half the time the match directors try to trick you by putting a target 50yds behind the crest of a hill in front of another.

If you lase in front or behind you have the incorrect range, only by bracketing the target will you get an idea of its actual position.

Do what you wish, its your money, I just don't want you to spend 2k on a laser and realize you still can't hit sub moa targets in the field reliably. Especially when hunting.

 

[verdugo60]

So using this bracketing method what ranges do you think you could get with the 10x Steiner RF? I understand what you are saying, I use the same method with my Nikon but I have seen telephone poles ranged to past 2000 yards with the Terrapin. I was just hoping the Terrapin was the Holy Grail and could actually get to targets themselves way further than anything else. I have not used one in an actual match, one of my squad mates had one and when mounted on the tripod he was able to get reliable readings almost always.

There were definitely some tricky targets like you talked about at the SH Cup, in fact no one could get a reliable range on the target on the back side of the hill on the Steiner stage! Targets #4 and #5 didn't get hit much the afternoon we shot it per the Steiner RO's.

Are you saying you normally can't bounce directly off the target? I'm not questioning your honesty or anything, just trying to understand your experiences with the two since you seem to have used the Terrapin and are considering switching to the Bino's. My other issue is I shoot 338, so the extra range of the Terrapin might just outweigh the Steiner bino's for now.

 

[LawnMM]

Tripods definitely add some stability to the equation, I'm mainly talking about free handing it. Look at it in terms of what you are capable of and not the rangefinder.

What's the size of the vital zone of the animal you hunt? At what range are you ethically confident you can hit that on the first round. Is that distance within the limits of the LRF you want?

I'm saying unless you plan to bring a tripod just for ranging targets at competitions that hitting the target with the laser is extremely difficult and unreliable. The Steiner stage was a good example. The target is small, the hill it sits on is not. Range the hill.

I hit a tree at like 1890m with the binos from their parking lot. I think you can freehand anything you will encounter in competition and with a tripod you can probably stretch out with your 338.

Those binos are rated to about 2000yds, how often do you plan to shoot past that?

I'm thinking of switching to the binos for a few reasons. Carrying one piece of gear instead of two is one reason. Field of view and 8x magnification are a few more. Warranty is yet another reason.

Rich

 

[verdugo60]

For me it's really not about the hunting. Every hunting shot is going to be a bit different, the elk I killed last year was an offhand shot at 130 yards while he was running and I had no time to range, it was a snap shot. I think if I got a 100% solid range I could smack an antelope very far away, but the main purpose will be for comps and target shooting. In Colorado my 338 stays supersonic past 2000 so we will shoot past there a few times a year. I went 4/5 on a Mile target with the 338 at my old range in Idaho.

My squad mate did exactly that, he brought his tripod the second day of our match for the Terrapin. He carried his tripod all day and was much more johnny-on-the-spot with ranges. I think whether I do the binos or the Terrapin I will experiment between a steady postion laying down on a pack vs a tripod.

Thanks for your insight Lawn, like I said PM info when you sell your Terrapin!

Any other users of the new Steiner Binos RF?

 

[NevadaZielmeister]

You will be hard pressed to find a laser that will do what you are asking. Most people at comps don't even try. I don't try to lase the target, I hit the ground its standing on, both sides, above it, and what I think is behind it. Bracket the target and decide on the range.

If you rely on trying to hit the actual target you are going to miss. Half the time the match directors try to trick you by putting a target 50yds behind the crest of a hill in front of another.

You mean like the Delta - 3 stage with the coyotes? Did you ever get a good range for the 3rd coyote, you know, the one that was pretty much still white by the end of the day? I do not think anyone hit that coyote. And that was supposed to be a milling stage. I sure wish it had been.

 

[verdugo60]

Dude, we couldn't touch that yote! We shot Delta Friday morning, it was white and they probably never had to paint it the rest of the match. Echo stage 1 was similar with 4 and 5, the hill behind them was 200 yards past the target and nothing good on the front to range.

 

[JC Steel]

My group used a tripod and my terrapin. It Hit every target we pointed it add.

We also have the 8x and 10x military rang finding binos. They honestly could not keep up. But if the price on them was right, it would be worth picking a set up. I noticed when I tried to hit targets dead on, it was only good to about 700. Where as the terrapin hit everything.

The coyotes are a good example, terrapin was the only unit that could do it. Everything else struggled on the third target and out

 

[LawnMM]

The yote stage was frustrating, I did a lot better on E1, I don't know what I ranged on D2? but it wasn't the yotes

 

[verdugo60]

That's what I wanted to hear Jake, thanks. Good shooting man!

My group used a tripod and my terrapin. It Hit every target we pointed it add.

We also have the 8x and 10x military rang finding binos. They honestly could not keep up. But if the price on them was right, it would be worth picking a set up. I noticed when I tried to hit targets dead on, it was only good to about 700. Where as the terrapin hit everything.

The coyotes are a good example, terrapin was the only unit that could do it. Everything else struggled on the third target and out

 

[Pike10]

My first purchase was the Leica Geovids a few years back for the Steel Safari. They worked well out of the box but struggled in the heat of the day in the deserts of NM. I find that they will range most targets at first light out to 700 - 800 yds but as the sun comes up they peter out pretty quickly. They've supprised me a few times recently but I don't count on them.

I got a Terrpin from Trigger Time Gun Club that next year and it has been fantasitic. It will give ranges in the heat of the day - all day long. The only draw back is the magnification stinks. I find I need to use the Geovids to locate and range what I can then switch to the Terrapin to get the rest. I wouldn't hesitate on a Terrapin purchase at this point.

The Steiner 8's and 10's are also good. Fritz just got one the first 8x LRF's and it is hitting out to 1800 with ease. I would look closely at these if only having one LRF and one purchase. Sky's 10x hit were giving him ranges in the Rocky Mountain Steel (Blizzard) Quest last month - where the rest of us with Geovids and Terrapins were left guessing.

 

[verdugo60]

Thanks Pike, great info. Interesting, those Steiners seem like a great value, wonder how they do when they get heated up in mid- day sunny conditions?

 

[Pike10]

I'll know here after the Steel Safari.

 

[Jcub]

Tag

 

[Shoottothrill]

Bigjimfish if your listening would like to see you review these steiners, since you have a lot of experience reviewing all the others.

 

[SPAK]

Tag, interested in this........

 

[verdugo60]

Bigjimfish if your listening would like to see you review these steiners, since you have a lot of experience reviewing all the others.

That would be great, there seems to be a lot of interest in these especially with Terrapins going away. If manufacturers are listening....make some quality binos with an honest 1800 yards plus laser rf included and priced around $2k and you will sell.a boatload. I hope these steiners are exactly that. They seem like great guys and support the LR community in matches, etc.

 

[ajwcotton]

For what it is worth,
With binos you are always going to have a compromise. Consider a terripin costs 2500, a nice set of binos cost about the same. Combine the two and your looking at a lot of money. The best you could expect would be a set of vector 4's. Aside from those as far as binos go, the best I have used are the Zeiss Victory RF. They are actually great binos without the rangefinder, the rangefinder works pretty well and the display is actually bright enough to use. They are fast, but the reticle is a little on the large side. The Steiner binos reticle and display were both a little dim in the afternoon sun. They were also not very fast to range. I was more impressed with the bushnell 1 mile binos than the steiners honestly.

 

[Shoottothrill]

This thread is turning into a lot of opinions and not much facts, or everyone is looking thru different bino's lol. One guy says they kick ass, and the next guy say's he likes the Bushnell Arcs better and another guy says they left the Terrapins and Leica Geovids in the dust. Can someone please get ahold of these and do a quality review. I'm getting more confused by the post. Haha, just joking around guys.

 

[LawnMM]

If somebody can get a set in my hands for a couple weeks I will run them side by side with a Terrapin for comparison!

 

[verdugo60]

Lawn why don't you just email our buddy Martin about that and run a comparison?! Then you will feel good about selling me your Terrapin after the review in a couple weeks!

 

[LawnMM]

Already have an email in on another matter, I know he's a busy guy so I'm not going to bomb his inbox. If that's something you guys want to see though, feel free to email him. I'm local so getting that comparison done wouldn't be an ordeal at all. Understand it would have to be a fair comparison, that means measuring how they stack up against each other within their limits. The Steiners are rated to around 1850yds if I'm not mistaken, the Terrapin will range to around 2600. So the comparison has to be, how do they do up to and including 1850, can they go farther, can you lase actual targets or do you wind up making terrain shots at 1200, etc.

My interest is for competition environments so I have binos and an LRF in one package I don't have to swap back and forth if its a competition dynamics match and they have targets hidden. I have a 338LM so of course I'm interested in a range finder that will reach out to a mile, maybe 2000 yards if I'm lucky. However, I haven't really dove into ELR yet and I'd like to compete more. So having two items in the same package with good function to 1200 and able to range reflective stuff to 1800-2000 is really all I'm looking for right now. If I get into 375 Cheytacs and 2500+ yard shots in the future I can always look into a PLF25 or something in the future. Right now I have more laser than I need, which is never bad, the problem is the magnification leaves a little to be desired.

 

[verdugo60]

I hear you man, Martin is a good guy and super busy I'm sure with the stuff going on.

I would love to see that comparison or even just a good stand alone review on the LRF in these. Like I said from the beginning if these Steiner's can hit even out to 1400 yards reliably on targets in the heat of the day PLUS have that extra magnification over the Terrapin they will be an extremely compelling option, especially for comp guys. I am an exception rather than the rule in that I shoot past 1400 yards, I really think that these could be the ticket for most guys shooting 308, 6.5's and 6's. The glass on their standard ones was excellent at the SH Cup, and having a local company be such a big part of the local competitions is pretty cool. I'm even considering selling one of my Vortex Razors to get one of these new 5-25's in September!

 

[LawnMM]

Where are you shooting past 1400? I'd like to stretch my Creedmoor's legs a bit and after my GDI mount arrives I think I'm going to move some glass to my 338LM and get load development done so I can play with that bad boy more often as well.

 

[verdugo60]

I shoot past 1400 in Idaho when I go visit my family at my old range in Parma! We need to check in on the ELR thread, some of us discussed finding a spot near Denver to do some ELR. I actually just got a 24"x24" plate from Jake with JC to be able to really go out to 2000 yards+ with the 338's, so now we need to find a spot. Southwest of Castle Pines where the fire burned out a bunch of area would maybe work shooting ridge to ridge, ideally the target could be set up off or near a dirt track. I can let you know if we get a spot figured out.

If you missed the announcement at CRC, the board is looking at expanding the Silhouette range with a berm to 1200 yards, which is a start.

 

[verdugo60]

Ok Pike, what's the verdict on the Steiners after the Steel Safari?

I'll know here after the Steel Safari.

 

[Pike10]

The verdict - they work flawlessly in the heat of the day. My 3rd place finish got me a Steiner 5-25 Cert that is being swapped for a the new 8x LRF. Mailing the cert tomorrow. My Geovids and most likely Terrapin will be for sale shortly. We couldn't not get them to work, they are quick with the range and easy to use.

 

[verdugo60]

The verdict - they work flawlessly in the heat of the day. My 3rd place finish got me a Steiner 5-25 Cert that is being swapped for a the new 8x LRF. Mailing the cert tomorrow. My Geovids and most likely Terrapin will be for sale shortly. We couldn't not get them to work, they are quick with the range and easy to use.

Good to hear, except that makes me even more on the edge about a Terrapin vs these! I had all but settled on Terrapin! How were they ranging smaller targets, were you able to bounce right off the plate or bracketing? What was the longest distance you got with them?

 

[Pike10]

My terrapin will range anything out to 2400 yds...anything (buildings at 4200 yds). The longest steel plate we ranged was 1800+ with the 8x LRF. The terrapin magnification is just too light to use to find and locate targets. The 8x magnification is just right for locating as well. I make it a practice to ping the legs at the ground rather than the steel plate. I have had too many instances where the beam hits the back ground 50 - 100 yds back and you end up with a miss.

You are not going to be disappointed with either. If your set on the Terrapin you won't be disappointed. If you plan to use it for matches like the Steel Safari you will just need to practice going from a 8 or 10x bino to the Terrapin. Its easily do able just takes a little longer.

I will be switching over to the Steiner 8x LRF when it arrives. My opinion if you want a one package deal - the new 8x LRF is the way to go.

 

[matt2143]

After using the Terrapin for over a year, I keep the 3d setting on. I laze a target dead on and if it hits an object behind the target it will flash the distance letting you know there is more than one range that came back. You can see all 3 distances by hitting the fire button to move through them. That is how I deal with tiny targets at greater distances.

 

[Shoottothrill]

Who has the best price on these Steiners?

 

[verdugo60]

Who has the best price on these Steiners?

Give Scott at Liberty Optics a call, he has been great to deal with and quoted excellent prices on the Steiner binos.

 

[XOR]

My Geovids and most likely Terrapin will be for sale shortly. We couldn't not get them to work, they are quick with the range and easy to use.

Are you using the older Geovids, or the newer Leica HD-B? I'm in a situation deciding between a Vectronix or Leica latest generation and am looking for clarification on which model you have. In particular, working in less than ideal weather/bright sun is a big consideration. I'd like to know if I should add the Steiner to my list of options.

Thanks...

 

[Pike10]

They are the older model. I cannot remember the model number, 10x42's, bought new in 2011 or so. They are NOT the new HD-B model.