Stock Suggestions for a Remington 700 .308

[M.Born28]

Hey guys, I'm looking for a stock for my department issued Remington 700 chambered in .308. This will be used for Sniper/ERT situations and at the range on qualification days. I have a unique opportunity to select a new stock for the rifle, but it will still need to go through an approval process. What that means is I have to be able to sell it to the board members, especially if it's super expensive.

I'm open to any suggestions, so please feel free and as always, thank you guys in advance.

Born

 

[JC0352]

@CaylenW, @Terry Cross, @Rudy Gonsior

These gentlemen ☝?can give you some great advice.

 

[Terry Cross]

Hey guys, I'm looking for a stock for my department issued Remington 700 chambered in .308. This will be used for Sniper/ERT situations and at the range on qualification days. I have a unique opportunity to select a new stock for the rifle, but it will still need to go through an approval process. What that means is I have to be able to sell it to the board members, especially if it's super expensive.

I'm open to any suggestions, so please feel free and as always, thank you guys in advance.

Born

Thanks JC0352.

Born, I would encourage you to make a list of qualifying candidates and then get your hands on each. You and anyone else having to live with it should have an opportunity to "racoon" it and get a feel for what will serve you best.

Most opportunities like yours are indeed unique within departments in that there will likely not be any "do over" next month or next year if you end up not liking what you chose. Make sure you guy what will be adaptable to different officer's physiques and serviceable for the next decade after you are retired or promoted past those worries.

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[M.Born28]

Thanks JC0352.

Born, I would encourage you to make a list of qualifying candidates and then get your hands on each. You and anyone else having to live with it should have an opportunity to "racoon" it and get a feel for what will serve you best.

Most opportunities like yours are indeed unique within departments in that there will likely not be any "do over" next month or next year if you end up not liking what you chose. Make sure you guy what will be adaptable to different officer's physiques and serviceable for the next decade after you are retired or promoted past those worries.

./

I totally agree. Right now I'm working with a basic monte carlo stock and would like to upgrade to something that is adjustable so as to accommodate various shooters and situations.

 

[THEIS]

Hi,

For traditional style stock (Non chassis) then KMW Sentinel will pretty much fill every role/requirement you have.

For Chassis style then the MDT ESS will be a good option.

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[fdkay]

I would steer you to a chassis system. Your budget will answer many of your questions.
There are certainly many nice stocks out there but I think the Chassis has way too many advantages to overlook.
1. Adjustability
2. Modularity
3. Cost
4. DBM is part of the package

Don't get me wrong, I really like the look and feel of a well made stock but
1. Adjustability is usually at a premium
2. Typically not as adjustable as a good chassis
3. Modularity can be had, but they are never as modular as a chassis
4. Cost, adding bells and whistles to a stock really drives the price up
5. For most stocks, BDM's are an add on (even the Manners)

I would also discourage ANY thumbhole stock. There are folks out there with large hands that find them hard to use. I wear XL gloves and find thumbhole stocks uncomfortable and hard to use. I have met MANY folks with hands larger than mine.

Consider that MOST stock/chassis companies offer agency pricing, which is typically a good break on the price. Some more so than others.
I run two KRG bravo's on my rifles, I love them. I also have an old, original XLR chassis.
A KRG X Ray or something similar would be an excellent choice.

Grayboe stocks makes some very nice stuff.
Manners and McMillan are always excellent choices.
HS Precision has well made stocks, but the ergo's suck.

 

[Knightrider109]

I have a KRG Bravo and it’s is great.

 

[JC0352]

I have a KRG Bravo and it’s is great.

That’s awesome, but why? Compared to what other chassis system?

I’m not trying to be a dick, but how does “it is great” help the OP?

 

[b6graham]

That’s awesome, but why? Compared to what other chassis system?

I’m not trying to be a dick, but how does “it is great” help the OP?

It's a chassis that feels like a stock. Is cheap. And has tons of options accessory wise

 

[Knightrider109]

That’s awesome, but why? Compared to what other chassis system?

I’m not trying to be a dick, but how does “it is great” help the OP?

It replaced my hogue stock that was not a free float. It’s very customizable to adding barrier stops and spigot mount to get the bipod out further. The thing that stood out for me that I didn’t think was important was the pistol like grip. It definitely feels more natural than basic stocks that come with store bought guns. Also only cost between $300-$400. I got mine about 3 months ago for 700 acc sd 308.

 

[JC0352]

It replaced my hogue stock that was not a free float. It’s very customizable to adding barrier stops and spigot mount to get the bipod out further. The thing that stood out for me that I didn’t think was important was the pistol like grip. It definitely feels more natural than basic stocks that come with store bought guns. Also only cost between $300-$400. I got mine about 3 months ago for 700 acc sd 308.

It's a chassis that feels like a stock. Is cheap. And has tons of options accessory wise

I’ve got one, too, and I agree with all of that! Might be a great option, but I don’t feel like I’m personally in a position to recommend that to a cop looking to outfit his team’s rifles. 1. That’s just not my lane and 2. I’ve only had mine for maybe two months.

 

[Terry Cross]

I would also discourage ANY thumbhole stock. There are folks out there with large hands that find them hard to use. I wear XL gloves and find thumbhole stocks uncomfortable and hard to use. I have met MANY folks with hands larger than mine.

I find this humorous.

There are over 1,600 SENTINELS in use by agencies and God only knows how many 1.0, 1.5 and 2.0 AICS still in hard use by law enforcement agencies on the US with no complaints about the thumbhole feature (it's there for a reason...)

Just how many agencies and/or officers have notified you of issues due to large hands?

./

 

[Terry Cross]

Hi,

For traditional style stock (Non chassis) then KMW Sentinel will pretty much fill every role/requirement you have.

To clarify for the OP, a SENTINEL stock with IMB option is basically a "chassis" in that it is a drop in with no bedding required, is adjustable for LOP, is adjustable for cheek rest height and offset, has NV mount in front and bipod mounting options.

./

 

[moaorbust]

Get an AICS. I bought the 1.5 for my 700 years ago and to this day remains the most comfortable chassis I have tried.

 

[LawnMM]

Low end, KRG bravo or x-ray, XLR element, mid grade, XLR Envy, MDT ACC, high end...Manners T4A with mini chassis, Sentinel with IMB, Accuracy International AX chassis

 

[Reverie Ranges]

Be careful, thumbhole stocks are pushing the envelope to become a restricted item... You wouldn't want to confiscate that from your arms room...

 

[Basher]

Be careful, thumbhole stocks are pushing the envelope to become a restricted item... You wouldn't want to confiscate that from your arms room...

LOL, what? A stock is a “restricted item” simply because it has a thumbhole? Where’d you read that rubbish? Cite your souce!

 

[Reverie Ranges]

Bloomberg...

 

[fdkay]

I find this humorous.

There are over 1,600 SENTINELS in use by agencies and God only knows how many 1.0, 1.5 and 2.0 AICS still in hard use by law enforcement agencies on the US with no complaints about the thumbhole feature (it's there for a reason...)

Just how many agencies and/or officers have notified you of issues due to large hands?

./

Actually, I like your stock, I never said it wasn't a good stock. I wasn't bashing your product, but your refusal to accept the fact that it isn't the answer for 100% of the population is telling. Not only that , I only said I "discourage" them. Keep in mind, this is a department weapon. If that's what they want, rock on.

I know for a fact that I have issues with it. What more do I need?
I have issues with the AICS thumbhole stock as well.
I have large hands, but they are not thick.
I have met MANY folks that have larger, thicker hands than I do.
I know I have issues with getting a comfortable grip.

 

[M.Born28]

Thank you guys for the responses so far, this is great.

 

[Steel head]

Low end, KRG bravo or x-ray, XLR element, mid grade, XLR Envy, MDT ACC, high end...Manners T4A with mini chassis, Sentinel with IMB, Accuracy International AX chassis

A solid list of great candidates.

 

[Terry Cross]

........... but your refusal to accept the fact that it isn't the answer for 100% of the population is telling.

.................. Keep in mind, this is a department weapon. If that's what they want, rock on.

Again, this is pretty funny.
I am not refusing to accept anything. ..

Read my 1st post on this thread. I was the one that highly suggested getting hands on all of his final candidates and make an informed decision. This is currently and has always been my position. I didn't even pitch the KMW stocks in that post.

My spiel is always that stocks are very personal choices. NO stock out there is going to be perfect for everybody.

..................................

Keep in mind , this is a department weapon...?

That one job is exactly what the KMW stock was designed to do. Instead of being a specialist at doing one thing well, it was supposed to do many different things pretty good.

Why don't you tell us what percentages of US sniper shots have been from what positions over the last 30yrs so you could know how to configure a stock that plays well in those circumstances?

Agencies are over 80% of KMW's business. They are the target audience, not PRS or other niches.

The thumbhole was made large and positioned in a way that the user would be forced to have a good hand position behind the trigger even if the rest of their setup and body position was compromised.

I have no issues at all when other stocks are chosen after the potential users make their own decisions based on exposure to each. That is the way the market is supposed to work to the advantage of the buyer. I embrace that and encourage it.


./

 

[PBWalsh]

@Terry Cross

Can you go into further detail as to how the thumbhole of your stock provides proper hand positioning? I had an AIAT with the thumbhole skins and could never get quite comfortable behind it, so I am curious how the KMW stock is different or similar in your mind with its unique ergonomics.

Also, what was the design intent or purpose for the "hump" placed directly in front of the mag well?

 

[fdkay]

Again, this is pretty funny.
I am not refusing to accept anything. ..

Read my 1st post on this thread. I was the one that highly suggested getting hands on all of his final candidates and make an informed decision. This is currently and has always been my position. I didn't even pitch the KMW stocks in that post.

My spiel is always that stocks are very personal choices. NO stock out there is going to be perfect for everybody.

..................................

Keep in mind , this is a department weapon...?

That one job is exactly what the KMW stock was designed to do. Instead of being a specialist at doing one thing well, it was supposed to do many different things pretty good.

Why don't you tell us what percentages of US sniper shots have been from what positions over the last 30yrs so you could know how to configure a stock that plays well in those circumstances?

Agencies are over 80% of KMW's business. They are the target audience, not PRS or other niches.

The thumbhole was made large and positioned in a way that the user would be forced to have a good hand position behind the trigger even if the rest of their setup and body position was compromised.

I have no issues at all when other stocks are chosen after the potential users make their own decisions based on exposure to each. That is the way the market is supposed to work to the advantage of the buyer. I embrace that and encourage it.


./

Yes, because everyone has identical hands.
Sorry, my mistake.

 

[M.Born28]

@Terry Cross

Can you go into further detail as to how the thumbhole of your stock provides proper hand positioning? I had an AIAT with the thumbhole skins and could never get quite comfortable behind it, so I am curious how the KMW stock is different or similar in your mind with its unique ergonomics.

Also, what was the design intent or purpose for the "hump" placed directly in front of the mag well?

I can't comment on the thumbhole design, and I can only think of 2 reason for the hump without any hands on experience. The first being that maybe that extra hump and material allows for easier reloads, like a flared magwell ?‍ . The second being a little more meat to hang on to when shooting from a tripod. Granted these are both assumptions as I have no real world experience with them, but at first glance that's what came to mind ?‍. I would be interested in knowing more as well though.

 

[Terry Cross]

I can't comment on the thumbhole design, and I can only think of 2 reason for the hump without any hands on experience. The first being that maybe that extra hump and material allows for easier reloads, like a flared magwell ?‍ . The second being a little more meat to hang on to when shooting from a tripod. Granted these are both assumptions as I have no real world experience with them, but at first glance that's what came to mind ?‍. I would be interested in knowing more as well though.

The weakest cross section of any stock is usually through the recoil lug area. Next weakest is through the sides on each side of the magazine box inlet. Extending the stock material around that area increases rigidity and strength to an otherwise weak point. The SENTINEL stocks are also about 0.150" wider from side to side where the action resides. Again to get away from areas that may be a little thin once finished. The IMB chassis insert also helps build in extra strength on the stock as well.

A KMW rifle was in a case in the trunk of this unit that was hit by a drunk driver. Case, rifle and most of the rear of the car exploded in different directions. Case had secondary impact then the separated rifle got slammed one last time. The stock was fractured in multiple places but the rifle was still functional and the NF scope was still operable. This was the last of 3 similar incidents that I am aware of where one of our rifles was in a crash and survived pretty much intact. I have this stock at the shop as a reminder of how tough they can be.


Also, the balance point of most rifles in this stock is on that flat right in front of the magazine. That flat mates quite nicely when the rifles are mounted into RRS VYCE or Pig/Hog Saddles on tripods.

Also, any rifle you are going to work with had better lend itself to positional shooting. The same "belly" gives another option for hand position when trying to build good skeletal support into your position.

When in elevated positions that have you in high angle attitudes with the rifle, the sloped front of the belly can be pushed into the edge of the deck, rail, etc. and the rifle pretty much balances nicely with or without a bag there and still lets you push into the rifle.

The design came from attempts to be hand friendly in many types of setups. thus a lot of curves and merged lines. Most new gen chassis and stocks optimized for PRS barricades, etc. have perfectly straight line and edges that aren't ergo friendly if the shooter is the one stuck trying to support the rifle.


I would still recommend you getting a sample of your main considerations to handle. You will quickly find a favorite for your own type of use. You guys may handle the KMW and decide it totally sucks but at least you will be spending money on something else knowing you tried to make an informed decision. It is a buyers market right now and you are in a good position to choose from a lot of good products.


./

 

[PBWalsh]

Thanks Mr. Cross, I appreciate the detailed response.

 

[M.Born28]

The weakest cross section of any stock is usually through the recoil lug area. Next weakest is through the sides on each side of the magazine box inlet. Extending the stock material around that area increases rigidity and strength to an otherwise weak point. The SENTINEL stocks are also about 0.150" wider from side to side where the action resides. Again to get away from areas that may be a little thin once finished. The IMB chassis insert also helps build in extra strength on the stock as well.

View attachment 7254855

A KMW rifle was in a case in the trunk of this unit that was hit by a drunk driver. Case, rifle and most of the rear of the car exploded in different directions. Case had secondary impact then the separated rifle got slammed one last time. The stock was fractured in multiple places but the rifle was still functional and the NF scope was still operable. This was the last of 3 similar incidents that I am aware of where one of our rifles was in a crash and survived pretty much intact. I have this stock at the shop as a reminder of how tough they can be.


Also, the balance point of most rifles in this stock is on that flat right in front of the magazine. That flat mates quite nicely when the rifles are mounted into RRS VYCE or Pig/Hog Saddles on tripods.
View attachment 7254859

Also, any rifle you are going to work with had better lend itself to positional shooting. The same "belly" gives another option for hand position when trying to build good skeletal support into your position.

When in elevated positions that have you in high angle attitudes with the rifle, the sloped front of the belly can be pushed into the edge of the deck, rail, etc. and the rifle pretty much balances nicely with or without a bag there and still lets you push into the rifle.

The design came from attempts to be hand friendly in many types of setups. thus a lot of curves and merged lines. Most new gen chassis and stocks optimized for PRS barricades, etc. have perfectly straight line and edges that aren't ergo friendly if the shooter is the one stuck trying to support the rifle.


I would still recommend you getting a sample of your main considerations to handle. You will quickly find a favorite for your own type of use. You guys may handle the KMW and decide it totally sucks but at least you will be spending money on something else knowing you tried to make an informed decision. It is a buyers market right now and you are in a good position to choose from a lot of good products.


./

I have no issues with your design just to clarify. I just wanted to hear from the horse's mouth. I think they look pretty slick and have that sort of Dragunov style to them. I could see how that reinforced area would lend itself to a better purchase in a hog saddle set up, that was one of my observations with it. Ultimately the decision isn't up to me, I get to show them a line-up and voice my opinion on each and they'll make the final decision. Thank you for the information @Terry Cross

 

[bt4lsu]

Pretty sure I shot the rifle pictured above at last year’s voodoo on the bayou.

 

[Terry Cross]

I have no issues with your design just to clarify. I just wanted to hear from the horse's mouth. .................................. I get to show them a line-up and voice my opinion on each and they'll make the final decision. Thank you for the information @Terry Cross

No worries sir and you're welcome.
I wasn't trying to come across defensive at all and I didn't take your post that way.
I was just trying to slam some keys real quick to answer you and a couple others before I had to jump back into the daily chaos.

When you are ready to look at and show samples of your prospects, send me an email if you are interested in the KMW.
I would send a T&E along with pre-paid return label. You and your crew could bolt a rifle into it and see how it flies.

There is no obligation or commitment except I would ask for your critique of your guys Pros and Cons of the setup. I totally rely on feedback from users to keep evolving what we do.

Be safe.


./