Strange delayed firing issue

Moonraker

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Last weekend, I was at a range where a friend had a 220 swift that he hadn't fired in a year. The gun was clean and the ammo was about a year old. I chambered the first round, pulled the trigger, and nothing. I heard the pin hit, but nothing fired. It was a new gun (to me) so I thought maybe I had the safety was one. About the time I removed my hand from the trigger and started going for the safety, BOOM, the gun discharged. There was probably a 5 second delay from pulling the trigger and firing. I looked at my friend and we were both surprised. I checked the bolt, looked down the empty barrel and all looked good. I grabbed another round, checked it for any blemishes and chambered it. I pulled the trigger and this time, there was about a 1 second delay, but the rifle fired.

My friend decided to try it. We checked everything, chambered another round and it instantly fired as intended. He should about 20 more rounds and they all fired as normal.

So the question is, was this a firing pin issue, an ammo issue, or what? I've never had it happen to me before so I'm a bit lost.
 

Chucky

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Re: Strange delayed firing issue

Sounds like you had a damp primer or powder and that is what caused the delay.
 

Diablo

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Re: Strange delayed firing issue

When was the last time the bolt was disassembled, like, maybe for cleaning?
 

Moonraker

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Re: Strange delayed firing issue

I think it was ammo as well. It just seems weird that the first two were delayed but all of the others fired fine.

I'm not real sure the last time the bolt was removed for cleaning. It's possible that it was after the last time it was shot, which would have been about a year prior.
 

Diablo

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Re: Strange delayed firing issue

I meant, not just removed but disassembled for cleaning?
 

TitaniumBlue

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Re: Strange delayed firing issue

I'm willing to bet the firing pin got hung up, its called a hang fire. The more the firing pin was worked, the better it went.
 

Moonraker

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Re: Strange delayed firing issue

Diablo: Not sure on that. The gun owner is meticulous about his rifles, so I'm sure it's been done, but not sure how long.

WILongRange: Thanks. I hadn't ever heard of that. I'll research that a little bit and probably chalk this issue up to that.

Thanks for your help.
 

pepperbelly

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Re: Strange delayed firing issue

Commercial ammo or handloads? If it was the firing pin it might not set off the primer, but if it did strike the primer enough to set it off it would not be delayed. I have seen a lot of surplus rifles with so much cosmoline and crud in the bolt that the firing pin couldn't reach the primer- or the floating firing pin was stuck forward and caused a slamfire.
It sounds like an ammo issue. Something with either the primer or powder delayed the ignition.

Jim
 

Moonraker

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Re: Strange delayed firing issue

These were handloads. I agree with everyone here that it is probably ammo. I researched the hang fire problem WILongRange mentioned and the symptoms described is what happened. I sent my friend an e-mail about this and I'm sure his bolt will be cleaned throughly tomorrow.
 

pepperbelly

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Re: Strange delayed firing issue

I bet either some moisture got in the case or tumbling media was caught in the primer pocket. That is assuming the powder he was using was good.

Jim
 

dreamlander

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Re: Strange delayed firing issue

Someone PLEASE explain to me how a 5 second delay could be caused by ammo. Everyone that said "probably the ammo" has no reason? It makes perfects sense to me that the trigger released the firing pin, but the pin was held up inside the bolt and then came loose. I had a similar problem with a Remington style bolt, except the delay was very small,and I could hardly tell, but still could. Also had a couple misfires with that bolt. Cleaned and lubed inside and fixed problem.
I don't know alot about explosives, but someone please explain to me how a wet primer could cause a delay. The way I understand it when the pin hits there is either a bang or there isn't.
 

pepperbelly

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Re: Strange delayed firing issue

I wasn't thinking about the bolt delaying the firing pin from hitting the primer.
I also wasn't thinking about a wet primer. I think if the primer was wet it wouldn't fire at all. If some of the powder was contaminated, or the flashole was obstructed I might, maybe see it. I think it was much more common with black powder.

Stuck firing pin or bad ammo, could be either. Since the rest of the ammo was OK it probably was the firing pin/bolt. My crystal ball is cloudy.

Jim
 

DBohn

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Re: Strange delayed firing issue

Definitely a firing pin/bolt issue. Take the bolt apart and clean it and the problem will go away.
 

GRIM

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Re: Strange delayed firing issue

Years ago I remember reading about a fellow who did his own reloading and somehow had a similar problem. Delayed shots and such. Contacted the primer company and they said to send them all the primers back and they'd look at them. The company shipped him new pistol primers replacing the ones that he had sent in. He contacted them again and said that he had sent in rifle primers. Since I don't reload pistol is it possible to fit a pistol primer into a large rifle cartridge ?
 

KTDLS7

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Re: Strange delayed firing issue

GRIM,

Small Pistol & Small Rifle primers are the same diameter.
Large Pistol & Large Rifle primers are the same diameter.
...then you have "magnum, match, & BR" primers.

If you reload, it is imperative to keep primers labeled and separate. If you can't ID the primers, dump them.

ktd
 

Jack12002

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Re: Strange delayed firing issue

just took my conceal carry class first thing we learned in gun safety was a hang fire. you guys scare the shit out of me if you are unaware of a hanf fire............... get a freaking clue and take a class




Hang fire refers to an unexpected delay between the triggering of a firearm and the ignition of the propellant.[1] This failure was common in firearm actions that relied on open primer pans, due to the poor or inconsistent quality of the powder. Modern weapons are susceptible, particularly if the ammunition has been stored in an environment outside of the design specifications. The delay is typically too brief to be noticed, but may be disruptive in processes where accurate timing is important, such as synchronization gear in propeller driven aircraft.

A hangfire should be suspected whenever a weapon fails to fire, but has not clearly malfunctioned. In modern, serviceable weapons it is more likely that the round is a "dud" (one that will never fire at all), but it is important not to immediately remove the round from the chamber. If a hangfire has in fact occurred, a round detonating outside of the weapon could cause serious fragmentation injury. If the operator believes that the weapon correctly cycled a fresh round and the action is not visibly jammed, the correct procedure is to keep the weapon pointed at a safe target for sixty seconds, then remove and safely discard the round.

The phrase "to hang fire" also means to delay in progressing, for example from one task to another.[
 

Tactical_Tom

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Re: Strange delayed firing issue

Sounds like a hang fire which is an ammo issue, most likely. It’s a good thing you didn’t open the action when the gun did not fire. Remember to keep the gun pointed down range for at least 60 second after something like this happens. If you shoot enough stuff like this will happen just be careful.
 

280man

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Re: Strange delayed firing issue

welcome to snipers hide Jack12002

I always wonder what a guy is thinking when his first post contains the words " get a freaking clue "

there is a edit feature to use on your own post. just saying
 

280man

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Re: Strange delayed firing issue

Back on topic

I have had some of these same issues in my rifle latley. I narrowed mine down to ammo by firing the rifle with other ammo and it worked fine. It is still a mystery to me. It seemed to get better the other day during a very limited test of 20 rounds. The only thing I changed was the seating depth, went from jumping the bullet to jamming it.
 

Jerkface11

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Re: Strange delayed firing issue

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ktdls7</div><div class="ubbcode-body">GRIM,

Small Pistol & Small Rifle primers are the same diameter.
Large Pistol & Large Rifle primers are the same diameter.
...then you have "magnum, match, & BR" primers.

If you reload, it is imperative to keep primers labeled and separate. If you can't ID the primers, dump them.

ktd </div></div>

Rifle primers have a deeper cup.
 

RoyPreston

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Re: Strange delayed firing issue

I had the same issue. I used a pack of primers that had been sitting for a long while.Aparently they had gotten damp over time. When I was at the range I'd pull the trigger you could hear the firing pin click than about a second or 2 bang the round would fire. It did this with every round I loaded with those primers. Got some fresh primers and loaded so more, didn't have any more hang-fires after that.
 

Alaskaman11

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Re: Strange delayed firing issue

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jack12002</div><div class="ubbcode-body">just took my conceal carry class first thing we learned in gun safety was a hang fire. you guys scare the shit out of me if you are unaware of a hanf fire............... get a freaking clue and take a class




Hang fire refers to an unexpected delay between the triggering of a firearm and the ignition of the propellant.[1] This failure was common in firearm actions that relied on open primer pans, due to the poor or inconsistent quality of the powder. Modern weapons are susceptible, particularly if the ammunition has been stored in an environment outside of the design specifications. The delay is typically too brief to be noticed, but may be disruptive in processes where accurate timing is important, such as synchronization gear in propeller driven aircraft.

A hangfire should be suspected whenever a weapon fails to fire, but has not clearly malfunctioned. In modern, serviceable weapons it is more likely that the round is a "dud" (one that will never fire at all), but it is important not to immediately remove the round from the chamber. If a hangfire has in fact occurred, a round detonating outside of the weapon could cause serious fragmentation injury. If the operator believes that the weapon correctly cycled a fresh round and the action is not visibly jammed, the correct procedure is to keep the weapon pointed at a safe target for sixty seconds, then remove and safely discard the round.

The phrase "to hang fire" also means to delay in progressing, for example from one task to another.[
</div></div>


Ya jack, umm not a way to start off here, I'm glad that you were able to take a class, but please understand that a good chunk of the guys are combat vets, a lot are SOF folks and well still more are both and now teach the next generation coming up. When I say teach, they are not teaching the mall ninja classes that go over proper definition of a hang fire, please it's early and I don't want to see a anyone eaten alive before lunch.
 

pepperbelly

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Re: Strange delayed firing issue

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Alaskaman 11</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jack12002</div><div class="ubbcode-body">just took my conceal carry class first thing we learned in gun safety was a hang fire. you guys scare the shit out of me if you are unaware of a hanf fire............... get a freaking clue and take a class




Hang fire refers to an unexpected delay between the triggering of a firearm and the ignition of the propellant.[1] This failure was common in firearm actions that relied on open primer pans, due to the poor or inconsistent quality of the powder. Modern weapons are susceptible, particularly if the ammunition has been stored in an environment outside of the design specifications. The delay is typically too brief to be noticed, but may be disruptive in processes where accurate timing is important, such as synchronization gear in propeller driven aircraft.

A hangfire should be suspected whenever a weapon fails to fire, but has not clearly malfunctioned. In modern, serviceable weapons it is more likely that the round is a "dud" (one that will never fire at all), but it is important not to immediately remove the round from the chamber. If a hangfire has in fact occurred, a round detonating outside of the weapon could cause serious fragmentation injury. If the operator believes that the weapon correctly cycled a fresh round and the action is not visibly jammed, the correct procedure is to keep the weapon pointed at a safe target for sixty seconds, then remove and safely discard the round.

The phrase "to hang fire" also means to delay in progressing, for example from one task to another.[
</div></div>


Ya jack, umm not a way to start off here, I'm glad that you were able to take a class, but please understand that a good chunk of the guys are combat vets, a lot are SOF folks and well still more are both and now teach the next generation coming up. When I say teach, they are not teaching the mall ninja classes that go over proper definition of a hang fire, please it's early and I don't want to see a anyone eaten alive before lunch. </div></div>

His definition of hang-fire was copied and pasted. I don't think he memorized it in school.

Jim