• Watch Out for Scammers!

    We've now added a color code for all accounts. Orange accounts are new members, Blue are full members, and Green are Supporters. If you get a message about a sale from an orange account, make sure you pay attention before sending any money!

Sub-MOA ?

Re: Sub-MOA ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: strangedays</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You lost when you first posted this,
Piston Petes good ole words of wisdom.
to whom it may concern.., i have 5 of these "Dark Ops" scopes, all are "product overruns" two of them on very high recoil rifles three of them on 5.56mm NATO chambered rifles, the number of rounds thru the rifles/carbines range from 200 to 2,000+, the one high recoil carbine has nearly 1,000 rnds thru it and she still holds point of aim out to 350 yds.

just my OPINION, but i consider these Counter Sniper scopes to be top notch, that is why i have 5 of them and plan on buying at least three more.
</div></div>

Anyone that shills for Dark Ops/Counter Sniper on this site deserves their moron tag and use of the ignore button.
 
Re: Sub-MOA ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: strangedays</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You lost when you first posted this,
Piston Petes good ole words of wisdom.
to whom it may concern.., i have 5 of these "Dark Ops" scopes, all are "product overruns" two of them on very high recoil rifles three of them on 5.56mm NATO chambered rifles, the number of rounds thru the rifles/carbines range from 200 to 2,000+, the one high recoil carbine has nearly 1,000 rnds thru it and she still holds point of aim out to 350 yds.

just my OPINION, but i consider these Counter Sniper scopes to be top notch, that is why i have 5 of them and plan on buying at least three more.
</div></div>

and do you know what happened to those scopes ? they ALL went back to CS and i got a full refund on every one of them, <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-size: 20pt"><span style="color: #FF0000">WHY ??</span> </span></span>they couldn't hold POA from one shooting session to the next then i bought a NIB Nightforce scope from one of the members here on S.H. and that sucker is the finest scope i ever used and she hold zero every time i take it out to shoot. OK ? thank you !
 
Re: Sub-MOA ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Falar</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: strangedays</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You lost when you first posted this,
Piston Petes good ole words of wisdom.
to whom it may concern.., i have 5 of these "Dark Ops" scopes, all are "product overruns" two of them on very high recoil rifles three of them on 5.56mm NATO chambered rifles, the number of rounds thru the rifles/carbines range from 200 to 2,000+, the one high recoil carbine has nearly 1,000 rnds thru it and she still holds point of aim out to 350 yds.

just my OPINION, but i consider these Counter Sniper scopes to be top notch, that is why i have 5 of them and plan on buying at least three more.
</div></div>

Anyone that shills for Dark Ops/Counter Sniper on this site deserves their moron tag and use of the ignore button.</div></div>

I've had him on ignore for a while. Don't feed the trolls is my thought.
 
Re: Sub-MOA ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Piston Pete</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

and do you know what happened to those scopes ? they ALL went back to CS and i got a full refund on every one of them, <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-size: 20pt"><span style="color: #FF0000">WHY ??</span> </span></span>they couldn't hold POA from one shooting session to the next then i bought a NIB Nightforce scope from one of the members here on S.H. and that sucker is the finest scope i ever used and she hold zero every time i take it out to shoot. OK ? thank you ! </div></div> And so now I take it that you understand why everyone took your comments to mean you were a d-bag?
 
Re: Sub-MOA ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: strangedays</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would take this thread more serious if it was started by someone who shoots their rifles instead of calling BS to everyone else who shoots theirs. </div></div>

Pretty much. PPete is a clown. Anyways no work today so I'm off to the range to do load devel.
 
Re: Sub-MOA ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Piston Pete</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: strangedays</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You lost when you first posted this,
Piston Petes good ole words of wisdom.
to whom it may concern.., i have 5 of these "Dark Ops" scopes, all are "product overruns" two of them on very high recoil rifles three of them on 5.56mm NATO chambered rifles, the number of rounds thru the rifles/carbines range from 200 to 2,000+, the one high recoil carbine has nearly 1,000 rnds thru it and she still holds point of aim out to 350 yds.

just my OPINION, but i consider these Counter Sniper scopes to be top notch, that is why i have 5 of them and plan on buying at least three more.
</div></div>

and do you know what happened to those scopes ? they ALL went back to CS and i got a full refund on every one of them, <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-size: 20pt"><span style="color: #FF0000">WHY ??</span> </span></span>they couldn't hold POA from one shooting session to the next then i bought a NIB Nightforce scope from one of the members here on S.H. and that sucker is the finest scope i ever used and she hold zero every time i take it out to shoot. OK ? thank you ! </div></div>
OK so you said they could hold POA before and then you returned them because they didn't hold POA between every single range trip. I am confused were you lieing then or now?
I agree Nightforce makes some nice scopes. I just find it hard to understand why you purchased five of those scopes if they were so bad in your eyes in the first place? With five hundred rounds a week being fired I would have suspected you would have noticed an issue early on, or maybe thats why you groups keep spreading all over the board? Plus you said you had five COunter shitters then you replace all of them with one nightforce? How is the one scope working for all your "Rifles"
 
Re: Sub-MOA ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Pete,

We missed ya at TPRC..??..?? </div></div>

i was at the TPRC - Telecommunications Policy Research Conference, so where the hell were you guys i missed y'll
 
Re: Sub-MOA ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: strangedays</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Piston Pete</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: strangedays</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You lost when you first posted this,
Piston Petes good ole words of wisdom.
to whom it may concern.., i have 5 of these "Dark Ops" scopes, all are "product overruns" two of them on very high recoil rifles three of them on 5.56mm NATO chambered rifles, the number of rounds thru the rifles/carbines range from 200 to 2,000+, the one high recoil carbine has nearly 1,000 rnds thru it and she still holds point of aim out to 350 yds.

just my OPINION, but i consider these Counter Sniper scopes to be top notch, that is why i have 5 of them and plan on buying at least three more.
</div></div>

and do you know what happened to those scopes ? they ALL went back to CS and i got a full refund on every one of them, <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-size: 20pt"><span style="color: #FF0000">WHY ??</span> </span></span>they couldn't hold POA from one shooting session to the next then i bought a NIB Nightforce scope from one of the members here on S.H. and that sucker is the finest scope i ever used and she hold zero every time i take it out to shoot. OK ? thank you ! </div></div>
OK so you said they could hold POA before and then you returned them because they didn't hold POA between every single range trip. I am confused were you lieing then or now?
I agree Nightforce makes some nice scopes. I just find it hard to understand why you purchased five of those scopes if they were so bad in your eyes in the first place? With five hundred rounds a week being fired I would have suspected you would have noticed an issue early on, or maybe thats why you groups keep spreading all over the board? Plus you said you had five COunter shitters then you replace all of them with one nightforce? How is the one scope working for all your "Rifles" </div></div>

there is just so much ignorance plus some stupidity in your post my friend it would take more time to explain it all to you than the time we both combined have on this forum, i just bought 3 more scopes plus the NF, i really do not believe i need to report to you every transaction i make, besides it's none of your fucking business what i do, what i buy, when i buy it, what i shoot, how many times i shoot it.....

BUT !! PLEASE.., do not get depressed, because i truly hope you have a good job and pay a lot of taxes, because i really do appreciate your contribution towards my Military Retirement and S.S., i use that pocket money as paltry as it is compared to my other investment incomes to support my shooting and reloading hobby. if i haven't thanked you before, i want to take this opportunity to thank you now...., THANK YOU !! my fellow American.
 
Re: Sub-MOA ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JCH</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I've had him on ignore for a while. Don't feed the trolls is my thought. </div></div>

+1 don't feed the trolls, Oprah even made that mistake and learned the hard way.
 
Re: Sub-MOA ?

trolling.jpg
 
Re: Sub-MOA ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Piston Pete</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: strangedays</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Piston Pete</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: strangedays</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You lost when you first posted this,
Piston Petes good ole words of wisdom.
to whom it may concern.., i have 5 of these "Dark Ops" scopes, all are "product overruns" two of them on very high recoil rifles three of them on 5.56mm NATO chambered rifles, the number of rounds thru the rifles/carbines range from 200 to 2,000+, the one high recoil carbine has nearly 1,000 rnds thru it and she still holds point of aim out to 350 yds.

just my OPINION, but i consider these Counter Sniper scopes to be top notch, that is why i have 5 of them and plan on buying at least three more.
</div></div>

and do you know what happened to those scopes ? they ALL went back to CS and i got a full refund on every one of them, <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-size: 20pt"><span style="color: #FF0000">WHY ??</span> </span></span>they couldn't hold POA from one shooting session to the next then i bought a NIB Nightforce scope from one of the members here on S.H. and that sucker is the finest scope i ever used and she hold zero every time i take it out to shoot. OK ? thank you ! </div></div>
OK so you said they could hold POA before and then you returned them because they didn't hold POA between every single range trip. I am confused were you lieing then or now?
I agree Nightforce makes some nice scopes. I just find it hard to understand why you purchased five of those scopes if they were so bad in your eyes in the first place? With five hundred rounds a week being fired I would have suspected you would have noticed an issue early on, or maybe thats why you groups keep spreading all over the board? Plus you said you had five COunter shitters then you replace all of them with one nightforce? How is the one scope working for all your "Rifles" </div></div>

there is just so much ignorance plus some stupidity in your post my friend it would take more time to explain it all to you than the time we both combined have on this forum, i just bought 3 more scopes plus the NF, i really do not believe i need to report to you every transaction i make, besides it's none of your fucking business what i do, what i buy, when i buy it, what i shoot, how many times i shoot it.....

BUT !! PLEASE.., do not get depressed, because i truly hope you have a good job and pay a lot of taxes, because i really do appreciate your contribution towards my Military Retirement and S.S., i use that pocket money as paltry as it is compared to my other investment incomes to support my shooting and reloading hobby. if i haven't thanked you before, i want to take this opportunity to thank you now...., THANK YOU !! my fellow American. </div></div>

You're never supposed to go full retard.
 
Re: Sub-MOA ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Piston Pete</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Pete,

We missed ya at TPRC..??..?? </div></div>

i was at the TPRC - Telecommunications Policy Research Conference, so where the hell were you guys i missed y'll </div></div>

Lets see..

I was going to type something. That being said....

<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/FMEe7JqBgvg"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/FMEe7JqBgvg" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>
 
Re: Sub-MOA ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Falar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

You're never supposed to go full retard. </div></div>

<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/svwGRJA28lY"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/svwGRJA28lY" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>
 
Re: Sub-MOA ?

PLEASE.., my dear fellow Americans and patriots do not be depressed, be happy that we all live in a country where we can agree or disagree civilly, as we are now, because i truly hope you ALL have good jobs and pay a lot of taxes, because i really do appreciate your contribution towards my Military Retirement and S.S., i use that pocket money, as paltry as it is compared to my other investment incomes to support my shooting and reloading hobby. if i haven't thanked you ALL before, i want to take this opportunity to thank you now...., THANK YOU !! my fellow American Patriots.

i want to order another high end scope that is near $4,000,00 i would like to ask you all to contribute to my scope fund, you may pledge your contribution by a PM.

have a great day my friends, i love you all like feuding brothers
grin.gif
 
Re: Sub-MOA ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Piston Pete</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> PLEASE.., my dear fellow Americans and patriots do not be depressed, be happy that we all live in a country where we can agree or disagree civilly, as we are now, because i truly hope you ALL have good jobs and pay a lot of taxes, because i really do appreciate your contribution towards my Military Retirement and S.S., i use that pocket money, as paltry as it is compared to my other investment incomes to support my shooting and reloading hobby. if i haven't thanked you ALL before, i want to take this opportunity to thank you now...., THANK YOU !! my fellow American Patriots.

i want to order another high end scope that is near $4,000,00 i would like to ask you all to contribute to my scope fund, you may pledge your contribution by a PM.

have a great day my friends, i love you all like feuding brothers
grin.gif
</div></div>
Your welcome since I don't pay a dime into any of your funds due to the fact that you are thirteen and don't have any pention or SS check unless you are retarded which I think might be more fitting or you are a big person (400-600 lbs) and that would explain why your chubby fingers would make it hard to shoot under 3 MOA across your moms basement. Whats this $4,000 dollor scope a Counter Sniper Titanium? I feel sorry for people like you who just don't get it, no matter how hard they try to see the way things should be their mind is unable to change or understand common reason. Did you happen to watch Shutter Island? No matter how hard you may try to reason with the way you think you are in the end you are crazy.
 
Re: Sub-MOA ?

Since this is the semiauto section.

On Friday, I mounted my new SS 1-4x24 HD scope on an AR I built myself in my garage a couple of years ago. After sighting in, I shot one 10-round group at 100 yards with CORBON 77gr SMK ammunition on a service rifle target I had stuck in my range bag. I shot the target off a concrete bench with an Atlas bipod and a rear bag in approximately 2 minutes. I bet if I was a little more careful I could eliminate the high shots. There were a couple of trigger pulls I knew were off a little bit but couldn't see bullet holes with the 1-4x scope to confirm whether those were the ones that ended up high.

Also it might be interesting to note that I have more than 3000 rounds through the gun and have not done any cleaning in at least 1000. In 3000+ rounds I have cleaned the barrel and chamber once and pulled the BCG and sprayed it with Gun Scrubber twice. The gun is DI, not piston. It has a Young's Mfg. chromed full auto NM BCG and a Noveske recce barrel with polygonal rifling.

AR_100_851.jpg


It's a miracle!
 
Re: Sub-MOA ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: strangedays</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Your welcome since I don't pay a dime into any of your funds due to the fact that you are thirteen and don't have any pention or SS check unless you are retarded which I think might be more fitting or you are a big person (400-600 lbs) and that would explain why your chubby fingers would make it hard to shoot under 3 MOA across your moms basement. Whats this $4,000 dollor scope a Counter Sniper Titanium? I feel sorry for people like you who just don't get it, no matter how hard they try to see the way things should be their mind is unable to change or understand common reason. Did you happen to watch Shutter Island? No matter how hard you may try to reason with the way you think you are in the end you are crazy. </div></div>

why do you keep holding back, why not just go ahead and say how you really feel?
 
Re: Sub-MOA ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: George63</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: strangedays</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Your welcome since I don't pay a dime into any of your funds due to the fact that you are thirteen and don't have any pention or SS check unless you are retarded which I think might be more fitting or you are a big person (400-600 lbs) and that would explain why your chubby fingers would make it hard to shoot under 3 MOA across your moms basement. Whats this $4,000 dollor scope a Counter Sniper Titanium? I feel sorry for people like you who just don't get it, no matter how hard they try to see the way things should be their mind is unable to change or understand common reason. Did you happen to watch Shutter Island? No matter how hard you may try to reason with the way you think you are in the end you are crazy. </div></div>

why do you keep holding back, why not just go ahead and say how you really feel? </div></div>
Thats ok we all know how bad that could look
smile.gif
 
Re: Sub-MOA ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gstaylorg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Certainly the "troll" issue is a problem, but I'm a little more concerned about what happened to mgd45 (see pic).</div></div> LOL that was hilarious!
 
Re: Sub-MOA ?

I apologize to the other members here for subjecting you to my foolishness, it's just really hard for me to take the original question/statement seriously. When I read something like that, it just makes me think of comedy. I know...it's really quite sad...but I just can't help it.

One redeeming factor for this thread IMO is the fact that Lowlight took the time to post some shot group pics and provide some insight regarding shooting of groups, which I consider a privilege to read, especially given his well-known opinion about shooting groups. Thanks to the others that posted serious replies as well. It's always nice to see how others are shooting, even if the original post was somewhat ridiculous.

BTW: I'm still concerned about mgd45.
 
Re: Sub-MOA ?

You know what. I see everyone else post pics of their sub MOA groups. What I don't see are the OPs pics to back up his talk of his own "miraculous" shooting talent.

Pics or it didn't happen.
 
Re: Sub-MOA ?

I don't see what's so "magical" about obtaining sub-moa. Every time I see someone doubting a sub-minute gas gun I think...oh great, another freakin Gomer that can't shoot so he discredits those that actually can.

I personally find value in shooting groups providing that you can shoot them successively with at least a little sense of urgency. I won't even post a group anymore unless I can post the whole target board. These weren't exactly fired rapid fire but a minute and 15 seconds is no slouch for 20 rounds. Only reason my poa varies is because this bright ass white copier paper I print targets on is a freakin bear to see when the morning sun is on them.

As nice as it is to brag about sub-half groups, tac rigs are intended to rain lead, NOT mimick benchrest performance. A tac rig is as worthless a benchrest platform... as a bench rest platform is as a tac rig.

391-tgtgfx.jpg
 
Re: Sub-MOA ?

I've read through all of the posts and tried to skip or ignore the feuding. I've shot groups, lots of times at different ranges to check mine and my gears abilities. But, I've been made aware of what I might should be doing to check my abilities, make a single 1MOA shot on a single target at a given distance at any given time and position. Because, that's what Im striving for, hit what I'm aiming at, every time. So, here is my question to reinforce what I'm thinking, should a person running a "tactical" set-up test themselves and their equipment with that one shot and not by shooting groups? Or, if I take the same equipment to an F-TR match every fourth weekend, should I still practice shooting groups?
 
Re: Sub-MOA ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pickpick</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
1. But, I've been made aware of what I might should be doing to check my abilities, make a single 1MOA shot on a single target at a given distance at any given time and position.

2. should I still practice shooting groups? </div></div>

I'd be surprised if someone didn't disagreement with me, at lesast on #2 but...

1. The 1st shot matters more than all the rest
2. If you can't shoot groups you won't be able to move from target to target, or engage multiple targets at different distances.

Can someone be taught to bypass group shooting? Duh...sure they can.
Should they be? Unless their a prodigy I'd say not. Group shooting at least teaches one thing...repeatability.
 
Re: Sub-MOA ?

RULE #1
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
1.Exercise common sense and be considerate toward your fellow users. Diversity of opinion and intelligent civil discourse is encouraged; by the same token, <span style="font-size: 11pt"><span style="color: #FF0000">Personal attacks, rudeness, flaming, baiting, insults to others, or arguments will not be tolerated.Challenge others' points of view and opinions, but do so respectfully and thoughtfully.</span></span> Any member who threatens anyone on the forum, via PM, instant messengers, or Email, will be banned immediately without notice.</div></div>

actually i thought this was a legitimate question, but all i got was insults, flamed and ridiculed.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> when you folks brag about "sub-moa", can you describe how you are obtaining this miraculous feat ?

is it off hand ? (hardly ha ha ha laugh )

or bench with sand bags/bi-pod ?

or is the gun clamped down in a vise like mechanism</div></div>

NOT ONE shooter ever described how they hold or bed their rifle to make such shots, all i saw was more photos of one hole groups and bitching about my question...., soooooo, let's start over, OK ?

please describe how you hold, bed, clamp or what ever you do in obtaining one hole groups.

personally i use a GG&G bipod on the rail, and snugly hug the butt into my shoulder with my left hand/arm when shooting off a bench, no bags or monopod for the rear.

that is how i do it.., HOW DO YOU HOLD, GRIP, OR CLAMP YOUR RIFLE ???

now, let's try it without name calling, flaming, etc.<span style="font-size: 26pt"><span style="color: #3333FF"> OK ?</span></span>
 
Re: Sub-MOA ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Piston Pete</div><div class="ubbcode-body">please describe how you hold, bed, clamp or what ever you do in obtaining one hole groups.
</div></div>One hole groups are accidental by most including myself but just for sub-groups it's no secret most are going to shoot best from a bench or prone. Accuaracy usually suffers (for me) shooting seated, kneeling, or standing with a barricade for a rest but for that type of shooting all I care about is placing them center mass...they don't need to be pretty. I use a bipod/monopod on all my sticks but I think a rear bag would be better.
 
Re: Sub-MOA ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hamilton</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> This is a rhetorical question designed to feed a troll.
If you don't know how it is done PP, there are no words I can put together in any order to help you.

Oh, but then you do know how it's done as you go on to self-promote and describe your superior shooting escapades shooting small groups with a BR set-up.

What is a "field" type weapon anyhow?
Do you mean a non-benchrest rifle?

If so, then yes, it is done regularly in all positions (with the POSSIBLE exception of off-hand) by truly talented shooters with iron sights, let alone talented shooters with optics.

Yes PP, you are the cats ass when it comes to all things shooting.

Shankster isn't the only one who possesses google-fu.
I already know much about you.

You must be seeking some additional validation.
I'm here to help.


</div></div>


Amen. And what has the benchrest story have to do with the question (if it is indeed a question) and why is it posted in the Semi forum?

My best groups ever were only 3 shots, but I shot them at NorCal's 09 match and did two three shot groups under 1/3 moa, one at 500 and one at 600. They weren't benchrest, actually they were timed exposure shots in a precision rifle match where the target popped up for 5 seconds three random times in 3 minutes-prone in the gravel.
Everyone gets lucky every once in a while....

The cool part was then we immediately stepped back to 800, 900, and 1000 yards and all of a sudden I couldn't shoot minute of target frame.

 
Re: Sub-MOA ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...all I care about is placing them center mass...they don't need to be pretty.</div></div>

EXACTLY.., my friend, that is exactly what i am looking for in my style of shooting. if OR when TSHTF, i all i want to be able to do is place killing shots out to 500 yds., anything beyond that range i'll have to put down the carbine and pick up the Colt H-Bar.
 
Re: Sub-MOA ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Piston Pete</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...all I care about is placing them center mass...they don't need to be pretty.</div></div>

EXACTLY.., my friend, that is exactly what i am looking for in my style of shooting. if OR when TSHTF, i all i want to be able to do is place killing shots out to 500 yds., anything beyond that range i'll have to put down the carbine and pick up the Colt H-Bar. </div></div>
When SHTF how will you know if any person out past five hundred yards is a threat to you for you to start shooting for their center mass? I hear these comments all the time and it makes you wonder how many people have some sick idea of if things go south being able to shoot just about anyone they see. And with all the other guns you have if you had to shoot out past 500 yards you would go for the colt HBAR? Do you have a counter sniper on the HBAR to make sure you can be ranging the hostiles all while ranging the sniper to counter his shot. I bet you could shoot a bullet out of flight with one of those and your mad skills.

I like your sig line,
<span style="color: #FF0000">"I may not always be right</span>, <span style="color: #009900"><span style="font-size: 17pt">but I'll be damned if I am ever wrong</span>."</span> I am sorry you are mostly damned.
 
Re: Sub-MOA ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mgd45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You basically use the same basic marksmanship fundamentals as any other time you shoot. When I shoot, I normally just use a bipod and rear bag about 95% of the time. When I did some 700 yard shooting in a friends field, I had to shoot standing in the back of a truck & using the roof as my "bench"......I was pretty happy with the results!

Remember....obtain your Natural Point of Aim....relax...breath control....easy on the grip & then a smooth, easy trigger press straight backwards as your watching the reticule....

my rifle is the one sitting on the rear bag....
Redneckbenchrest.jpg


700yardsfullbody-secret.jpg
</div></div>

Man, your rig is awesome! You are ready to rock and roll.
 
Re: Sub-MOA ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">All due respect back Kraig,

Tactical Rifles are not designed to be shoot in the offhand position and while it can be done for a few shots, its really a waste of everyone's time except in situations of snap shots.
FLG_5049.jpg


Coming from the USMC I did all that, and shot Expert, more than a few times. Standing at 200, sitting kneeling prone to 500yards with an M16 and open sights, been their done that, got the T Shirt & a shiny award for my chest... yea, that and $2.85 I can get a Grande Americano at Starbucks


But again, this is Sniper's Hide, not Service RIfle Hide, or Palma Party... so let's keep things in the context they are meant. Here is me at Raton in Michelle Gallagher's Shooting Jacket with her Rifle, and her showing me the Bondage Ropes:
lowlight_Palmacoach1.jpg


At the same time, we do shoot a lot of alternate positions, however we support the front of 15+lbs rifles. We get up off our bellies, in fact a few years ago the Fall Shooter's Bash only had 1 prone shot for the entire match. Everything else was run & gun, and alternate positions. We shoot a lot from the support side too, so you want to impress me, try shooting offhand in the context of an injury drill... we have done barricades, 1 hand, from the support side... can you do that offhand ?

05SHC104.jpg


Most of our standing is supported though,
FLG_2159.jpg


I don't shoot slow and I dick up shots all the time. Especially now when I am sticking a camera in my own face. Moving things around, back and forth, narrating the shots, takes my focus away more than I like, but it's my choice.

However when the works needs to be put in, if my rifle and I can't shoot sub MOA it's time for a new barrel. Everything tends to hover around .5 MOA which is my happy spot. I consider anything under .5 MOA a lucky day, depending on the rifle of course.

Shot_groupHBNGR4.jpg


My 600 yard target, 308, factory 170gr Lapua Ammo, held a little over 1 mil of wind.
FLG_1668.jpg


They key to all this is, can you do it on demand, under field conditions.


But still I consider shooting groups to be silly for a tactical rifle shooter.

</div></div>


Excellent post and great shooting lowlight!
 
Re: Sub-MOA ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: strangedays</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Piston Pete</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...all I care about is placing them center mass...they don't need to be pretty.</div></div>

EXACTLY.., my friend, that is exactly what i am looking for in my style of shooting. if OR when TSHTF, i all i want to be able to do is place killing shots out to 500 yds., anything beyond that range i'll have to put down the carbine and pick up the Colt H-Bar. </div></div>
When SHTF how will you know if any person out past five hundred yards is a threat to you for you to start shooting for their center mass? I hear these comments all the time and it makes you wonder how many people have some sick idea of if things go south being able to shoot just about anyone they see. And with all the other guns you have if you had to shoot out past 500 yards you would go for the colt HBAR? Do you have a counter sniper on the HBAR to make sure you can be ranging the hostiles all while ranging the sniper to counter his shot. I bet you could shoot a bullet out of flight with one of those and your mad skills.

I like your sig line,
<span style="color: #FF0000">"I may not always be right</span>, <span style="color: #009900"><span style="font-size: 17pt">but I'll be damned if I am ever wrong</span>."</span> I am sorry you are mostly damned. </div></div>

i truly pity you, ignorance is bliss they say, but stupidity is your forte.
 
Re: Sub-MOA ?

Amazing, just amazing the gamut this thread runs from actual info and facts to name calling and kindergarden banter.

JUST WOW....
 
Re: Sub-MOA ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Makes me feel young. Just like on the playground at grade school! </div></div>

The most hilarious part of it is the "I'll be damned if I'm ever wrong" tagline coming from the guy that started out here by shilling for counter sniper. Can you say "zero credibility"?

THe ignore feature is here for a reason.
 
Re: Sub-MOA ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why would I want to ignore? I can't PAY for this kind of entertainment. </div></div>

hahaha, good point. I guess there is a reason Jerry Springer had good ratings for a long time.
 
Re: Sub-MOA ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Makes me feel young. Just like on the playground at grade school! </div></div>

Tag you're it...
 
Re: Sub-MOA ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hamilton</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
But again, this is Sniper's Hide, not Service RIfle Hide, or Palma Party... so let's keep things in the context they are meant.</div></div>

If snipershide were to consist of only snipers with snipery posts, there would be a lot less online activity here.

The Gallagher's are an amazing bunch.
IMO an honor to have her loan you her stuff and spot for you.
Her younger sister Sherri is a precision shooting machine.
HP shooters are a great bunch, many just need an extra excuse to go out and shoot, and HP delivers.
Then, many come on here and "Blah blah blah guns, blah blah bullets, MOA blah, etc...."</div></div>

You completely misunderstand the point...

Sniper's Hide meaning you don't put things in context of Bench rest central...

Sniper's Hide meaning you don't shoot your rifle like a service rifle shooter

The people are irrelevant and I have the number people here I do because I understand these things... </div></div>

I'm here to surf shooting related topics, like so many others on here.
So if there's some point that I completely missed, forgive me.
I'm not a sniper, and neither are the vast majority of folks on here.
If posts need to be in a snipery context only, then I was not aware.

Did I put something into the context of BR central?
I mentioned a BR set-up as it was germane to the OP's topic.

O.K., Sniper's Hide now means I won't shoot my rifle like a service rifle shooter.
I'm fine with that, whatever that means.

I definitely don't feel that the people here are irrelevant.
(OK maybe a few, but I come here for the people.)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

R
Bipod use, range report, Seekins SP10-6.5 CM
Replies
5
Views
282
FredHammer
FredHammer
M
RRRC Long Range 22 LR 2023 match dates
Replies
8
Views
641
MarkCZ
M
M
RRRC Long Range 22LR Match format update
Replies
9
Views
698
MarkCZ
M
M
2022 Roanoke Rifle and Revolver Club Long Range 22LR match going Longer
Replies
1
Views
337
MarkCZ
M
Superchunk72
F-Class Open with PRS rig? You better believe it.
Replies
10
Views
2K
thexman
T
Top Bottom
Back