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Supressors

Thats for the solid (S) endcap. Vented (V) is the flow through one and the only cans in its range are the sandman K and rugged Radiant in short config... both of which are two baffle K Sized

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Interesting that this chart doesn't include the Deadair Nomad 30, given both its performance and popularity.

In objective sound tests by Hansohn bros. and others, [with supersonic ammo] the Nomad-30 outperformed the Vox S, the Trash Panda, and the Omega 300 in sound suppression at both muzzle and ear. It also apparently has lower backpressure than any of those and even Deadair's own Sandman S. Extrapolating from that, it seems to me that the Nomad-30 probably performs similarly in sound suppression to the solid-capped Helios while greatly outperforming it in back pressure due largely to it's significantly greater internal volume.
 
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I've been following this thread with great interest, particularly since I've been considering getting a Dead Air suppressor. My plan would be to swap this suppressor between 2-3 AR's both in 5.56 and .308. At least one would be an SBR with a 11.5" barrel. I shoot lefty, so having a can that doesn't vent a ton of gas in my face is definitely an issue.

I'd been leaning heavily towards the Sandman S, but now wondering if the Nomad might be a better choice. I never really do mag dumps (particularly with the price of ammo these days), but any can I have will be swapped between a couple of different rifles and probably have 4-5000 round put through it a year. Why wouldn't I want the more rugged can (Sandman), particularly since its only $50 more and 2-3 ounces heavier? The ability to mount directly to barrel isn't really an issue, since no matter which way I go I'd want to use Dead Air's quick detach system in any event? So other than it being a little lighter and 1/2" shorter, what's the advantage of the Nomad vs. the Sandman?
 
The Nomad is tougher than most suppressors out there (look at the torture tests). The Sandman is tougher still, but it's not as good at suppression. You aren't going to run your gun hard enough to hurt the Nomad unless you're running belt-fed, so outside of that very narrow usage window, the Nomad is the better option of the two.

After months of reading and comparing numbers, I went with the Nomad for my short barreled AR. For mounting, I picked Grifffin Armament's plan A and their titanium minimalist taper brake for the shortest, lightest mount option out there other than direct thread (which you don't want on an AR).
 
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Interesting that this chart doesn't include the Deadair Nomad 30, given both its performance and popularity.

In objective sound tests by Hansohn bros. and others, [with supersonic ammo] the Nomad-30 outperformed the Vox S, the Trash Panda, and the Omega 300 in sound suppression at both muzzle and ear. It also apparently has lower backpressure than any of those and even Deadair's own Sandman S. Extrapolating from that, it seems to me that the Nomad-30 probably performs similarly in sound suppression to the solid-capped Helios while greatly outperforming it in back pressure due largely to it's significantly greater internal volume.

The Nomad is tougher than most suppressors out there (look at the torture tests). The Sandman is tougher still, but it's not as good at suppression. You aren't going to run your gun hard enough to hurt the Nomad unless you're running belt-fed, so outside of that very narrow usage window, the Nomad is the better option of the two.

After months of reading and comparing numbers, I went with the Nomad for my short barreled AR. For mounting, I picked Grifffin Armament's plan A and their titanium minimalist taper brake for the shortest, lightest mount option out there other than direct thread (which you don't want on an AR).

The Nomad 30 is definitely another very cool suppressor.

pew science has not done a review yet on the nomad 30 or nomad L but i remember reading that they are intending on getting that done in the near future. i have been eagerly awaiting their review on it for well over a year now so im praying 2021 will be the year haha

i would not hesistate to recommend the nomad 30 to anyone on anything other than belt feds and 5.56 SBR's that are 10.5 and shorter as the pressures tend to be hell on the blast baffle.

either way it is a can i will probably wind up owning one of these days just has been beaten out by a few other options for various reasons so far but i do REALLY like it which is why it was on my short list that i posed earlier for options to consider.
 
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If I’m reading this right, the CGS has high back pressure.

Anyone else see it?
Back pressure =/= blowback. The Helios QD was specifically made for left handed shooters on 10.4" 5.56 select fire carbines to limit gas blowback to the face, and the M249.

Regarding Helios QD and Sandmen:

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9s3swEg.jpg


Helios QD is stronger and more durable than other silencers due to design and construction method. Additive manufacturing creates a more uniform grain structure than billet or castings. We immediately vent the first chamber and reintroduce that gas to the main flow further down stream and control pressure and heat to prevent hot spots. It far outlasts Surefire and OSS in independent torture testing. The Helios QD is only 6.58" added length and the only thing quieter from another manufacturer that's been tested so far is the Thunderbeast Ultra 9 by just 1.6 points, and the CGS Hyperion is significantly quieter than that.

Extrapolating from that, it seems to me that the Nomad-30 probably performs similarly in sound suppression to the solid-capped Helios while greatly outperforming it in back pressure due largely to it's significantly greater internal volume.
Where are you getting this from? A Helios QD has more internal volume than a Nomad, and volume alone isn't something that's meaningful to determine whether a silencer will have high or low back pressure. Backpressure =/= blowback.

What is it about the OSS and their technology? Are they ahead of the game? Please elaborate.

Goat
It's the same "flow through" technology that's existed since at least 1909 and in its current form since at least 1917 and 1927. It is always best to tune the host firearm when possible.

gQJuE6b.png


CGS is the only silencer with patent pending simple interchangeable front caps that allow you to easily convert function of the silencer between a traditional type silencer and a flow bypass silencer while maintaining strength and concentricity. And all you need is a couple off the shelf wrenches or a wrench and a socket to change it. This also means that CGS rifle silencers are adjustable across the entire spectrum of sound, flash, and gas reduction. Due to the construction method the entire silencer is concentric, including the taper joints for the caps at both ends. This means that no matter what accessory you install into the front or the back of the silencer core it'll always be concentric. There are no welds in the silencer so there is no weld warping and there are no welds to break. How many silencers have you guys seen with a broken weld? A lot. There's a lot that can go wrong with a faulty weld.

Helios QD Ti gets released in the coming months and will probably be around 11.5oz. Our titanium silencers are stronger and more durable than others for the previously mentioned reasons, but also because we do a proprietary heat treatment.

O6XyqUo.png


All CGS rifle silencers in current production can be considered to be precision rifle silencers as well. Due to the design they perform very well for long range use across the board. POI shift is repeatable and very minimal. Here's Hyperion unsuppressed to suppressed point of impact shift at 100 meters: https://www.instagram.com/p/CNdAhkSLY97/

And groups, read caption/comments for info: https://www.instagram.com/p/CNL92dQr3Zl/ and https://www.instagram.com/p/CNG5AQ0r3Of/

May also be worth noting the Hyperion series can be used on 5.56 ARs if you want by using Hyperion Thread Adapters which convert a 90 deg shoulder barrel to have a SIG 25 deg taper which gives you the retention benefit of the taper shoulder.
 
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Where are you getting this from? A Helios QD has more internal volume than a Nomad, and volume alone isn't something that's meaningful to determine whether a silencer will have high or low back pressure. Backpressure =/= blowback.
My mistake. For some reason I thought the Helios QD was 1.5" diameter. But as both cans have the same length (6.5") and the diameter is within 15 thousands of an inch (1.735 Nomad vs 1.75 Helios), the Helios would have virtually the same internal volume, not more.


Helios QD is stronger and more durable than other silencers due to design and construction method. Additive manufacturing creates a more uniform grain structure than billet or castings. We immediately vent the first chamber and reintroduce that gas to the main flow further down stream and control pressure and heat to prevent hot spots. It far outlasts Surefire and OSS in independent torture testing. The Helios QD is only 6.58" added length and the only thing quieter from another manufacturer that's been tested so far is the Thunderbeast Ultra 9 by just 1.6 points, and the CGS Hyperion is significantly quieter than that.

Yeah, that's BS, Paco. Good marketing, though. One of the problems with DMLS (direct metal laser sintering) is that it is significantly weaker than a product milled from billet. As the laser moves across the bed of metal powder, it sinters the powder into tiny beads of molten metal which rapidly cool. Before hardening, the beads coalesce, disturbing the powder bed. This unavoidably causes microscopic air bubbles to get trapped in the forming crystal structure, creating a porous and non-uniform grain structure. This reduces its resilience against mechanical stresses and heat cycling, while also making it prone to stress fracturing. Attempts to mitigate this have included varying laser pulse duration and energy and randomizing the laser pulses across the object rather than sintering linearly. These have resulted in some improvement, but nothing approaching the integrity of milled billet or forgings.

Also, pretty sure you're not supposed to hawk your company's products on here without getting a vendor status. I mean your post reads like you work for CGS.
 
My mistake. For some reason I thought the Helios QD was 1.5" diameter. But as both cans have the same length (6.5") and the diameter is within 15 thousands of an inch (1.735 Nomad vs 1.75 Helios), the Helios would have virtually the same internal volume, not more.




Yeah, that's BS, Paco. Good marketing, though. One of the problems with DMLS (direct metal laser sintering) is that it is significantly weaker than a product milled from billet. As the laser moves across the bed of metal powder, it sinters the powder into tiny beads of molten metal which rapidly cool. Before hardening, the beads coalesce, disturbing the powder bed. This unavoidably causes microscopic air bubbles to get trapped in the forming crystal structure, creating a porous and non-uniform grain structure. This reduces its resilience against mechanical stresses and heat cycling, while also making it prone to stress fracturing. Attempts to mitigate this have included varying laser pulse duration and energy and randomizing the laser pulses across the object rather than sintering linearly. These have resulted in some improvement, but nothing approaching the integrity of milled billet or forgings.

Also, pretty sure you're not supposed to hawk your company's products on here without getting a vendor status. I mean your post reads like you work for CGS.

The silencers don't have the same length, the Helios QD is 7.2" OAL. I'd know, I designed it. Nothing of what I said was untrue in the slightest, we have actual metallurgists and developers that work on these projects. I don't need "vendor status" to answer peoples questions about stuff I design.
 
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Nothing of what I said was untrue in the slightest, we have actual metallurgists and developers that work on these projects. .

Hmm. I’ve been a structural test engineer on metal components and systems for over 20 years and believe Odysseus is correct above. My company was experimenting with additive manufacturing long before it was popular, and I’ve NEVER seen a 3D printed metal product that’s stronger than the same product machined from billet, and am quite confident it doesn’t exist yet. The “more uniform grain structure” claim doesn’t even make sense if you understand what grain structure is and how it’s affected by various manufacturing processes.

There are good reasons to use 3D printing for suppressors, you can form shapes that can’t be machined, but the claim that it makes the base material better is not accurate.
 
Hmm. I’ve been a structural test engineer on metal components and systems for over 20 years and believe Odysseus is correct above. My company was experimenting with additive manufacturing long before it was popular, and I’ve NEVER seen a 3D printed metal product that’s stronger than the same product machined from billet, and am quite confident it doesn’t exist yet. The “more uniform grain structure” claim doesn’t even make sense if you understand what grain structure is and how it’s affected by various manufacturing processes.

There are good reasons to use 3D printing for suppressors, you can form shapes that can’t be machined, but the claim that it makes the base material better is not accurate.
Nah. We’ve actually done all the relevant testing with many people and entities that specialize in these processes that have worked in this field for decades.
 
Nah. We’ve actually done all the relevant testing with many people and entities that specialize in these processes that have worked in this field for decades.
Nah back at you, your claim doesn't make sense. Maybe you misunderstood something about the details or the tests.

But feel free to post a picture of the grain structure showing how it's more uniform than billet stock if you'd like to prove it, I'm willing to admit I'm wrong if you have evidence. But I'm not willing to believe wild claims without evidence, sorry.
 
I’ve been looking at DIC microscope photos of metal samples lately where LASER welding was used on exotic and Titanium alloy metals.

Depending on how the LASER pulse and intensity was applied, you can see failure nodes incorporated all over into the alloy and boundary layers, creating cascading trees of microfractures, large fracture zones, burn zones where the LASER “bubbles” the material, and all sorts of wild crystalline formations/imperfections.

The same guy who did those will be analyzing some 3D sintered high quality metal components I have. My main interest is to see what the microstructures look like. There are stainless and nitrided parts we’ll be analyzing. My expectation is to see a structure as Odysseus1911 describes, porous and non-uniform with a lot of oxidizing. It’s fine for components that don’t have to bear high stresses or exhibit ablative properties, unless you beef up the material walls like Daniel Defense did with their DMLS Wave suppressor.

The industries that are the most ahead in this field are aerospace and medical devices. They pay far more than the firearms industry and have resources that are other-worldly in some cases. LASER sintering (DMLS) was a DARPA sponsored project from the 1980s, so its roots are in defense aerospace sciences. There are metallurgy and materials science defense research programs usually 3-4 decades ahead of the commercial market.
 
As to suppressors, I’m leaning more to integrated/dedicated suppressed barrels.

I’ve been looking at that TBAC DSU:

iu
 
Maybe you misunderstood something about the details or the tests.

Nope, but I did use the incorrect language in part of it.

Where I said "additive manufacturing creates a more uniform grain structure than billet or castings" is not 100% correct. DMLS would result in epitaxial grain growth and columnar grain structure along the building direction. That columnar grain structure would turn into equiaxed grains by the following thermal treatment. While this doesn't mean the grain morphology isn't uniform, it just shows epitaxial columnar grain growth instead of equiaxed grain growth during deposition. The DMLS process can create fully dense parts, with better material density than a billet or casting product. The density from DMLS is usually higher than casting. With high cooling rate, the microstructure and features of DMLS parts are very small, leading to higher strength and hardness, even when compared with forging.

Yeah, that's BS, Paco. Good marketing, though. One of the problems with DMLS (direct metal laser sintering) is that it is significantly weaker than a product milled from billet. As the laser moves across the bed of metal powder, it sinters the powder into tiny beads of molten metal which rapidly cool. Before hardening, the beads coalesce, disturbing the powder bed. This unavoidably causes microscopic air bubbles to get trapped in the forming crystal structure, creating a porous and non-uniform grain structure. This reduces its resilience against mechanical stresses and heat cycling, while also making it prone to stress fracturing. Attempts to mitigate this have included varying laser pulse duration and energy and randomizing the laser pulses across the object rather than sintering linearly. These have resulted in some improvement, but nothing approaching the integrity of milled billet or forgings.

This is not correct, as DMLS printed parts are formed under argon or nitrogen atmosphere to avoid the formation of large pores. It is true that the density cannot reach exactly 100%, but can easily reach up to over 99.5%, and the tiny pores (with size less than 20um) has nothing to do with weakening the properties, so that the mechanical behavior performs the same as 100% dense parts. People have shown that the mechanical properties of DMLS parts in heat treated condition are the same or even better than the milled billet or forging parts in the same condition.

Regarding the terminology, some people use Direct Metal Laser Sintering (DMLS) as a blanket term for the process, some people use Laser Powder Bed Fusion (LPBF). Before this, people also used Selective Laser Melting (SLM), but SLM has now been trademarked by some company. Direct Metal Laser Melting (DMLM) is another common one. In German, DMLS is Direkt Metall Laser Schmelzen which is Direct Metal Laser Melting.

Hmm. I’ve been a structural test engineer on metal components and systems for over 20 years and believe Odysseus is correct above. My company was experimenting with additive manufacturing long before it was popular, and I’ve NEVER seen a 3D printed metal product that’s stronger than the same product machined from billet, and am quite confident it doesn’t exist yet. The “more uniform grain structure” claim doesn’t even make sense if you understand what grain structure is and how it’s affected by various manufacturing processes.

There are good reasons to use 3D printing for suppressors, you can form shapes that can’t be machined, but the claim that it makes the base material better is not accurate.

Before 2010, this would have been correct. But with the development of AM industry, especially for DMLS machines, now the density and mechanical properties of DMLS parts can reach that of billet and forged parts. I understand the “more uniform grain structure” comment but with rapid solidification and fast cooling DMLS results in very small microstructure and features which in turn improves the hardness and strength. There are tons of studies and findings that can be found in both academia and industry to show that DMLS parts have similar or even better properties than billets and forgings.

I’ve been looking at DIC microscope photos of metal samples lately where LASER welding was used on exotic and Titanium alloy metals.

Depending on how the LASER pulse and intensity was applied, you can see failure nodes incorporated all over into the alloy and boundary layers, creating cascading trees of microfractures, large fracture zones, burn zones where the LASER “bubbles” the material, and all sorts of wild crystalline formations/imperfections.

This is true about laser welding, especially for keyhole mode. However, the energy density in DMLS is much much smaller than laser welding process, resulting in conduction mode instead of keyhole mode. The failure mentioned above doesn’t exist in DMLS printed parts.

That should cover everything of relevance.

xQRzTGu.png
 
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Nope, but I did use the incorrect language in part of it.

Where I said "additive manufacturing creates a more uniform grain structure than billet or castings" is not 100% correct. DMLS would result in epitaxial grain growth and columnar grain structure along the building direction. That columnar grain structure would turn into equiaxed grains by the following thermal treatment. While this doesn't mean the grain morphology isn't uniform, it just shows epitaxial columnar grain growth instead of equiaxed grain growth during deposition. The DMLS process can create fully dense parts, with better material density than a billet or casting product. The density from DMLS is usually higher than casting. With high cooling rate, the microstructure and features of DMLS parts are very small, leading to higher strength and hardness, even when compared with forging.



This is not correct, as DMLS printed parts are formed under argon or nitrogen atmosphere to avoid the formation of large pores. It is true that the density cannot reach exactly 100%, but can easily reach up to over 99.5%, and the tiny pores (with size less than 20um) has nothing to do with weakening the properties, so that the mechanical behavior performs the same as 100% dense parts. People have shown that the mechanical properties of DMLS parts in heat treated condition is the same or even better than the milled billet or forging parts in the same condition.

Regarding the terminology, some people use Direct Metal Laser Sintering (DMLS) as a blanket term for the process, some people use Laser Powder Bed Fusion (LPBF). Before this, people also used Selective Laser Melting (SLM), but SLM has now been trademarked by some company. Direct Metal Laser Melting (DMLM) is another common one. In German, DMLS is Direkt Metall Laser Schmelzen which is Direct Metal Laser Melting.



Before 2010, this would have been correct. But with the development of AM industry, especially for DMLS machines, now the density and mechanical properties of DMLS parts can reach that of billet and forged parts. I understand the “more uniform grain structure” comment but with rapid solidification and fast cooling DMLS results in very small microstructure and features which in turn improves the hardness and strength. There are tons of studies and findings that can be found in both academia and industry to show that DMLS parts have similar or even better properties than billets and forgings.



This is true about laser welding, especially for keyhole mode. However, the energy density in DMLS is much much smaller than laser welding process, resulting in conduction mode instead of keyhole mode. The failure mentioned above doesn’t exist in DMLS printed parts.

That should cover everything of relevance.

xQRzTGu.png

So I see the optical microscopy but why not use something with better resolution such as AFM?
 
I’ve been loosely following the additive mfg side of aerospace specific to propulsion, and it definitely has come a long way. Additive techniques are advancing quite rapidly across many material mediums, so the future is bright in that regard.

I had a whole thing written up about how High Pressure Turbine blades are more difficult to make than entire rockets and only a few countries can actually do them right, the US being the global leader by far, but deleted it since it seemed to derail a bit.

In propulsion, they’re not only using additive processes for several metallic components now, but for polymers and ceramic matrix composites. The vast majority of the public has been in the dark regarding many of the “legacy” aerospace technologies and materials sciences, and since several of the advanced systems were kept compartmentalized away from leaders in these fields for decades, they are relatively unknown.

A good example is the A-12/SR-71 materials sciences. Everyone thinks it was made of Titanium, including the leading edges and variable shock cones for the intakes, but that was all composite. The fuselage and most structures were Ti, but not the leading & trailing edges. The A-12 originally had Ti variable shock cones, but they spiked the oblique and side Radar Cross Section values enough for Lockheed to seek out ways to find a composites solution that wasn’t as reflective.

There’s a great interview with a guy who ran the company originally tasked with making the composite variable shock cones for the A-12. We’re talking late 1950s, early 1960s efforts. This stuff was all TS/SCI until a few years ago.

The leading edges, trailing edges, and control surfaces of the A-12 and SR-71 ended up being a polycarbonate composite with asbestos honeycomb substructure as well, which really surprised me knowing the aerodynamic friction temps generated by that aircraft.

So I think there’s a lot of potential for the suppressor market to make strides in weight reduction without compromising integrity. It will depend on:

* The level of pay that suppressor manufacturers are willing to dish out to the low population of engineers required to advance the products

* The amount of R&D they’re willing to invest

* The amount they’re willing to invest in tooling

The area that interests me from a materials science and manufacturing perspective is the prospect of ceramic alloys. They’re using that type of technology on the developmental jet engines for Next Generation Air Dominance Fighters. Again, this is the type of technology that crosses a line where your company can actually be censored in what it produces if you achieve a certain threshold of performance, due to the amount of industrial espionage going on out there.
 
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My prediction is that any companies that start to reach those levels making gun mufflers will lose their engineering staff to aerospace, not vice-versa, though I have seen guys who retired out of AeroE go to DD and work on additive mfg suppressors as one anecdote. We’ll see.
 
This silencer is DMLS 718 Inconel, just like the Helios QD, and at this point it already had multiple 300rd, 400rd, 700rd, and 900rd belts put through it along with countless 100-200rd belts all cyclic on an M240 and during demos there were 3-7rd bursts and stuff. By the time this 1000rd belt was fired it already had ~28,000rds fired through the silencer and then we cut it in half at around 30,000rds or so. The silencer was perfectly fine and didn't have any issues until the barrel drooped enough to send a bullet into the baffle and front cap. Even then, after it cooled it could still be removed by hand and we fired another 400 or so rounds through it later that night. And due to the internal hexagonal boron nitride coating that we use on all our rifle silencers, there was less than an ounce of fouling build up even after over 30,000rds and it was all on the inside face of the front cap away from any place where it can cause an issue.


It is by far the best belt fed machine gun silencer the world has ever seen in many aspects including sound, flash, gas, earth disturbance, host weapon impact, and thermal signature. It wouldn't do what it needed to do if it wasn't produced with the strength of AM.
 
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This silencer is DMLS 718 Inconel, just like the Helios QD, and at this point it already had multiple 300rd, 400rd, 700rd, and 900rd belts put through it along with countless 100-200rd belts all cyclic on an M240 and during demos there were 3-7rd bursts and stuff. By the time this 1000rd belt was fired it already had ~28,000rds fired through the silencer and then we cut it in half at around 30,000rds or so. The silencer was perfectly fine and didn't have any issues until the barrel drooped enough to send a bullet into the baffle and front cap. Even then, after it cooled it could still be removed by hand and we fired another 400 or so rounds through it later that night. And due to the internal hexagonal boron nitride coating that we use on all our rifle silencers, there was less than an ounce of fouling build up even after over 30,000rds and it was all on the inside face of the front cap away from any place where it can cause an issue.


It is by far the best belt fed machine gun silencer the world has ever seen in many aspects including sound, flash, gas, earth disturbance, host weapon impact, and thermal signature. It wouldn't do what it needed to do if it wasn't produced with the strength of AM.

Assuming you would recommend a helios for an ar15? Can it be mounted to the DA keymo system (micro brake)? I'm interested in trying one of these out and comparing it to the RC2.

Would also be interested in comparing it to the dominus.
 
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Assuming you would recommend a helios for an ar15? Can it be mounted to the DA keymo system (micro brake)? I'm interested in trying one of these out and comparing it to the RC2.

Would also be interested in comparing it to the dominus.
If you'd want something for a similar use case to an RC2 for hard use SBR and machine gun use, then yes, since that's what it was made for on 10.4" select fire carbines. Otherwise the Helios QD Ti will be available in the coming months which, as it's name implies, is made of titanium.

All the 1.375x24 QD mounts I know of will work.

As far as not needing to use the QD Adapter Ring that comes in the Helios QD kit, Dead Air had a model of the KeyMo mount that fit just fine (the KeyMo with no extra material in front of the threads) but they just changed their KeyMo design again soon after releasing that one and now they don't work anymore because they added extra material in front of the threads again. It'd work with the KeyMicro brake if you got one of the transitional KeyMos that fit, or if you had the new versions extra material trimmed off. Alternatively there's the YHM Kurz and single port brake.
 
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If you'd want something for a similar use case to an RC2 for hard use SBR and machine gun use, then yes, since that's what it was made for on 10.4" select fire carbines. Otherwise the Helios QD Ti will be available in the coming months which, as it's name implies, is made of titanium.

All the 1.375x24 QD mounts I know of will work.

As far as not needing to use the QD Adapter Ring that comes in the Helios QD kit, Dead Air had a model of the KeyMo mount that fit just fine (the KeyMo with no extra material in front of the threads) but they just changed their KeyMo design again soon after releasing that one and now they don't work anymore because they added extra material in front of the threads again. It'd work with the KeyMicro brake if you got one of the transitional KeyMos that fit, or if you had the new versions extra material trimmed off. Alternatively there's the YHM Kurz and single port brake.

Any difference other than one is inconel/ 17-4 and the other is titanium (obviously weight savings)? I'm assuming similar performance except the inconel can obviously be abused a little more.
 
If you'd want something for a similar use case to an RC2 for hard use SBR and machine gun use, then yes, since that's what it was made for on 10.4" select fire carbines. Otherwise the Helios QD Ti will be available in the coming months which, as it's name implies, is made of titanium.

All the 1.375x24 QD mounts I know of will work.

As far as not needing to use the QD Adapter Ring that comes in the Helios QD kit, Dead Air had a model of the KeyMo mount that fit just fine (the KeyMo with no extra material in front of the threads) but they just changed their KeyMo design again soon after releasing that one and now they don't work anymore because they added extra material in front of the threads again. It'd work with the KeyMicro brake if you got one of the transitional KeyMos that fit, or if you had the new versions extra material trimmed off. Alternatively there's the YHM Kurz and single port brake.

I remember hearing somewhere that CGS was planning on releasing a QD system any word on an ETA for that?
 
Any difference other than one is inconel/ 17-4 and the other is titanium (obviously weight savings)? I'm assuming similar performance except the inconel can obviously be abused a little more.

Material is the only difference, sound should be near identical but PewScience will be testing the titanium one too. He's been using one for months on his personal rifle and so has GBRS Group. It may not be sold as a full kit, it'll probably be the 1/2x28 rear cap and solid front cap and other accessories can be purchased later as needed.

I remember hearing somewhere that CGS was planning on releasing a QD system any word on an ETA for that?

We don't provide ETAs, but I wouldn't be waiting for that to be released any time soon. It'll be released eventually, but it'll probably be quite a while.
 
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Yesterday I did the Form4 and picked up the Trash Panda by Q for my REPR and the Wolfman by Dead Air to use on my handguns. Stoked on finally stepping into the suppressor game. Next is NV!

Guy at the gun counter said wait times were about 5-7 months, I can live with that.
 
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NFA Tracker

Depending on method of filing, your wait time can be anywhere from 21 days to 380 days.

There are people with Form 1 Approval happening in 3 weeks from submission.
 
There is a nice plant tour of the Surefire factory on YouTube, and they talk about how they make and test the suppressors. Surefire has been around for a long time, and I expect they will continue to be, so if you have any issues they should be there to support you. As others have said, some of the titanium models may be lighter, but the Surefire RC2's are made to last based on their use of Inconel. They also make a .30 cal RC2 that would move between guns including 5.56 AR's. Good luck with your decision - as others have said, once you have one and shoot with it you will not regret getting one.
 
There is a nice plant tour of the Surefire factory on YouTube, and they talk about how they make and test the suppressors. Surefire has been around for a long time, and I expect they will continue to be, so if you have any issues they should be there to support you. As others have said, some of the titanium models may be lighter, but the Surefire RC2's are made to last based on their use of Inconel. They also make a .30 cal RC2 that would move between guns including 5.56 AR's. Good luck with your decision - as others have said, once you have one and shoot with it you will not regret getting one.
Durability is good but I think a lot of people get too wrapped up in thinking they need the most durable suppressor available without any real perspective on what that means.

If you aren’t using your can on a full-auto, you probably don’t need a can that’s designed and tested with full-auto durability as the top priority, like Surefire. Other priorities like weight and suppression are usually of more value to most civilians, which is why Surefire is less popular in this market.
 
Durability is good but I think a lot of people get too wrapped up in thinking they need the most durable suppressor available without any real perspective on what that means.

If you aren’t using your can on a full-auto, you probably don’t need a can that’s designed and tested with full-auto durability as the top priority, like Surefire. Other priorities like weight and suppression are usually of more value to most civilians, which is why Surefire is less popular in this market.

Surefire isn't as popular because some other companies have come out that make suppressors just as or more durable with better signature reduction.

As for not needing a "full auto rated" suppressor.
Its not hard to get your can pretty hot. Is it melt the can hot? No, but you also don't need to melt your barrel to get it hot enough to see accelerated wear and its the same principle with suppressors.

Considering suppressors can get to around 400 degrees +/- from just one 30rd magazine of rapid fire
My rule of thumb is that if you see yourself using this can for more than one 30rd magazine during a fast paced drill/rapid fire with relative consistency then you should probably get a more durable can so as not to see early baffle erosion and peace of mind.


Thats why I always recommend a hard use can for anyone looking for their first suppressor whenever gas guns are a primary host. Less time and energy babying your can and more time shooting.

Wanna do some mag dumps taking some new shooters out? Fuck it its full auto rated

Wanna take it to some 3 gun matches to look super tactical and operator AF? You can't afford the round count of real operators and everyone knows it, so go for it! Indulge your inner LARPer!

Wanna put a cover on it but are worried about the heat being trapped in the can? Again don't even worry about it. The alloys on this thing are used on jet engines and rockets.
 
Surefire isn't as popular because some other companies have come out that make suppressors just as or more durable with better signature reduction.

As for not needing a "full auto rated" suppressor.
Its not hard to get your can pretty hot. Is it melt the can hot? No, but you also don't need to melt your barrel to get it hot enough to see accelerated wear and its the same principle with suppressors.

Considering suppressors can get to around 400 degrees +/- from just one 30rd magazine of rapid fire
My rule of thumb is that if you see yourself using this can for more than one 30rd magazine during a fast paced drill/rapid fire with relative consistency then you should probably get a more durable can so as not to see early baffle erosion and peace of mind.


Thats why I always recommend a hard use can for anyone looking for their first suppressor whenever gas guns are a primary host. Less time and energy babying your can and more time shooting.

Wanna do some mag dumps taking some new shooters out? Fuck it its full auto rated

Wanna take it to some 3 gun matches to look super tactical and operator AF? You can't afford the round count of real operators and everyone knows it, so go for it! Indulge your inner LARPer!

Wanna put a cover on it but are worried about the heat being trapped in the can? Again don't even worry about it. The alloys on this thing are used on jet engines and rockets.

I think one also has to look at the price. I got the surefire RC2 for $890 and the geissele already had the QD mount for it. Now a CGS helios or thunderbeast SR and I'm looking at $1200+

RC2's are pretty popular and do not stay in stock long.
 
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First thing to do is make a list of your priorities in a suppressor.

Rank the following by value. (Below is my ranking from most to least important for 556).

-Mount/locking mechanism
-POI shift
-Accuracy
-Blowback on semiautomatic weapons
-Weight
-Signature (flash etc.)
-Durability
-Customer service/support
-db reduction
-Price
 
I think one also has to look at the price. I got the surefire RC2 for $890 and the geissele already had the QD mount for it. Now a CGS helios or thunderbeast SR and I'm looking at $1200+

RC2's are pretty popular and do not stay in stock long.

I was thinking more of the dead air sandman and rugged suppressors. CGS is defenitly expensive although the kit is defenitly nice. Especially in times like this when finding accessories can he damn near impossible...
 
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I was thinking more of the dead air sandman and rugged suppressors. CGS is defenitly expensive although the kit is defenitly nice. Especially in times like this when finding accessories can he damn near impossible...

That's fair, I would throw OSS and a few others in there as well. Lucky us to have soo many good options to choose from.
 
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That's fair, I would throw OSS and a few others in there as well. Lucky us to have soo many good options to choose from.
Defenitly a golden age for suppressors and suppressor ownership.

The ASA has it on their website that 83% of suppressors purchased from 1934 when the NFA was put in place to 2019 have been purchased between 2010 and 2019.

Defenitly a promising trend and one that hopefully if we keep at it will get them removed from the NFA eventually... along with all the SBR bull****
 
Put a safe in a dry basement with a goldenrod inside. If not in a basement, put it next to a load bearing wall and consider putting it in a closet or build an enclosure. I wouldn’t worry about home defense when deciding on a location, instead get a separate secure locker or handgun vault for secure self defense storage.

of the rifles and handguns I own, only my revolvers and perhaps 10% of my rifles are ever shot without suppressors. Get the paperwork started now because it takes the longest 9 months or so that you will ever endure. Get at least 2 suppressors the first time - a rimfire and a multi-caliber. Enjoy!
 
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Put a safe in a dry basement with a goldenrod inside. If not in a basement, put it next to a load bearing wall and consider putting it in a closet or build an enclosure. I wouldn’t worry about home defense when deciding on a location, instead get a separate secure locker or handgun vault for secure self defense storage.

of the rifles and handguns I own, only my revolvers and perhaps 10% of my rifles are ever shot without suppressors. Get the paperwork started now because it takes the longest 9 months or so that you will ever endure. Get at least 2 suppressors the first time - a rimfire and a multi-caliber. Enjoy!

LOL, WA is making you eat those words. Their appointments to do fingerprints on a concealed carry are booked over 10 months out

Anyways that's besides the point excellent info on the safes!

What is a goldenrod?
 
Surefire isn't as popular because some other companies have come out that make suppressors just as or more durable with better signature reduction.

As for not needing a "full auto rated" suppressor.
Its not hard to get your can pretty hot. Is it melt the can hot? No, but you also don't need to melt your barrel to get it hot enough to see accelerated wear and its the same principle with suppressors.

Considering suppressors can get to around 400 degrees +/- from just one 30rd magazine of rapid fire
My rule of thumb is that if you see yourself using this can for more than one 30rd magazine during a fast paced drill/rapid fire with relative consistency then you should probably get a more durable can so as not to see early baffle erosion and peace of mind.


Thats why I always recommend a hard use can for anyone looking for their first suppressor whenever gas guns are a primary host. Less time and energy babying your can and more time shooting.

Wanna do some mag dumps taking some new shooters out? Fuck it its full auto rated

Wanna take it to some 3 gun matches to look super tactical and operator AF? You can't afford the round count of real operators and everyone knows it, so go for it! Indulge your inner LARPer!

Wanna put a cover on it but are worried about the heat being trapped in the can? Again don't even worry about it. The alloys on this thing are used on jet engines and rockets.

Thanks for illustrating my point. None of that is full auto, but guys like you still promote the idea that full auto durability is a high priority. Even those who haven’t outgrown the bubba bumpfire stuff don’t need their suppressor to handle 600 rounds of continuous fire, or whatever other torture test someone devises.

It’s the same mindset as the guys who buy a 1 ton pickup and never haul anything more than a couch. I mean, buy whatever you want, but a more practical look at actual priorities will often lead to a different choice.
 
Thanks for illustrating my point. None of that is full auto, but guys like you still promote the idea that full auto durability is a high priority. Even those who haven’t outgrown the bubba bumpfire stuff don’t need their suppressor to handle 600 rounds of continuous fire, or whatever other torture test someone devises.

It’s the same mindset as the guys who buy a 1 ton pickup and never haul anything more than a couch. I mean, buy whatever you want, but a more practical look at actual priorities will often lead to a different choice.
"Full auto rated" is more of a marketing gimmick than anything and i have to be honest I don't understand why you seem so caught up in that term.
Just because its full auto rated doesn't mean that the extra durability won't show in how well the suppressor stands up to 10,15, or even 30 years of semi auto use.

Likewise just because a suppressor is "full auto rated" doesn't mean that you won't melt it rather quickly with an actual machine gun.


But if we are comparing lightweight titanium cans and such vs cans made with materials better at holding up under extreme heat as just a general rule. Then absolutely there are many, many people who could benefit from having at least one "full auto" suppressor rather than all titanium ones.


Again, is it going to melt? Highly doubtful.

But just because your SS barrel isn't drooping off the end of your gun doesn't mean that you can't easily heat it up to the point of accelerated wear.