Switching between manners stocks

[King_beardsly]

Has anyone switched stocks that have pretty much the same ergonomics and seen a noticeable difference in their performance behind the trigger? I switched from a PRS1 to a TCS for my centerfire comp rifle and for some reason I’m struggling to get the same level of accuracy, now I wondering if it’s just mentality messing with me or something else.

I really noticed a difference yesterday when I was bouncing back and forth between with my other rig that’s still in a PRS1 and the TCS, everything felt very similar but there was just something off just don’t know if it’s mind over matter or actually something different enough to make a difference.

 

[Maurygold]

Wouldn’t expect it to be the stock. Especially if both are mini chassis.

Some manners have vastly different grip pull lengths if that’s the case with a heavy trigger (anything over a pound) it could cause some difference.

 

[King_beardsly]

Both are mini chassis and from what I’ve heard/told the TCS and PRS1 should have the same reach in regards to the trigger. Funny part is the TCS rigs got a diamond set to 10oz while the PRS1 rig has a TT primary that’s 1.5lbs.

 

[CK1.0]

There's a chance it could just be the placebo effect (in reverse) of shooting something new?

That said, they're similar enough, so maybe it's how they're weighted differently or something? One thing I'd look at (if you haven't ditched it yet) is that the rear weight that the TCS comes with stock is almost useless IMHO (unless one is running a long truck axle and/or heavy can out front), I'd bet the rear of the TCS is heavier than the rear of the PRS1.

 

[Rob01]

I have switched a lot of barreled actions around in a lot of Manners stocks and never an issue with staying the same as far as accuracy. Have you tried to swap barreled actions in the PRS1 and TCS and see how they shoot in the other stock?

 

[King_beardsly]

There's a chance it could just be the placebo effect (in reverse) of shooting something new?

That said, they're similar enough, so maybe it's how they're weighted differently or something? One thing I'd look at (if you haven't ditched it yet) is that the rear weight that the TCS comes with stock is almost useless IMHO (unless one is running a long truck axle and/or heavy can out front), I'd bet the rear of the TCS is heavier than the rear of the PRS1.

I haven’t pulled that lead anchor out yet, but that’s very possible that I’m subconsciously feeling the weight difference and it’s throwing me off.

I have switched a lot of barreled actions around in a lot of Manners stocks and never an issue with staying the same as far as accuracy. Have you tried to swap barreled actions in the PRS1 and TCS and see how they shoot in the other stock?

I’ll switch them next time I head to the range, I almost did that yesterday but the range is a little weird since it’s public.

 

[Cynical]

Just as a data point of one, I have a LRH mini chassis that just won’t get the same level of precision as other LRH’s I own. Tried multiple barreled actions in the suspect stock. Tried multiple action screw torque values from 50 in-lbs front/45 back, to 90 and 90. Same hand loads. Take a barreled action from that stock and drop it into one of my other LRH’s and holes on target don’t lie. I did this with five barreled actions (2 defiance and 2 impacts, one Mac bros element), with barrels from Bartlein, Carbon 6 and Mullerworks chambered by very well known gunsmiths with very strong reputations nationally and definitely in competition shooting. It is repeatable and noticeable.

I have no real idea what the issue is with that stock. I suspect there is a straightness issue in the mini chassis layup, causing some small stress on the actions. The group sizes consistently reflected tighter groups in a different LRH, TCS, TS Customs KS1 and Foundation Gideon.

I think a careful bedding job would solve the problem, I just haven’t done it yet. Part of the attraction to the mini chassis is not being tied to one action, but I probably need to just bite the bullet and bed it.

 

[King_beardsly]

Just as a data point of one, I have a LRH mini chassis that just won’t get the same level of precision as other LRH’s I own. Tried multiple barreled actions in the suspect stock. Tried multiple action screw torque values from 50 in-lbs front/45 back, to 90 and 90. Same hand loads. Take a barreled action from that stock and drop it into one of my other LRH’s and holes on target don’t lie. I did this with five barreled actions (2 defiance and 2 impacts, one Mac bros element), with barrels from Bartlein, Carbon 6 and Mullerworks chambered by very well known gunsmiths with very strong reputations nationally and definitely in competition shooting. It is repeatable and noticeable.

I have no real idea what the issue is with that stock. I suspect there is a straightness issue in the mini chassis layup, causing some small stress on the actions. The group sizes consistently reflected tighter groups in a different LRH, TCS, TS Customs KS1 and Foundation Gideon.

I think a careful bedding job would solve the problem, I just haven’t done it yet. Part of the attraction to the mini chassis is not being tied to one action, but I probably need to just bite the bullet and bed it.

That’s an interesting point and anything is possible when you’re dealing with hand made stuff, that could have some sorta variation that’s unnoticeable unless you have the exact same thing to compare it to.

It probably doesn’t help that it’s a new cartridge I’m working with in this stock, but then again I’ve never noticed this in the past doing load development in the PRS1. I think that’s what is throwing me in off, I’ve got multiple variables in this situation and no clear reason besides think it’s a stock issue.

 

[Fat Dark Earth]

That’s an interesting point and anything is possible when you’re dealing with hand made stuff, that could have some sorta variation that’s unnoticeable unless you have the exact same thing to compare it to.

It probably doesn’t help that it’s a new cartridge I’m working with in this stock, but then again I’ve never noticed this in the past doing load development in the PRS1. I think that’s what is throwing me in off, I’ve got multiple variables in this situation and no clear reason besides think it’s a stock issue.

I think this is the most logical answer of them all and you gave it yourself.
Also this is the first you mentioned of the new cartridge as well.
Yes you have compounding variables here that are not what you’ve been used to and it takes time to get back up to speed.
You only mentioned “ performance” as changing. That’s kinda vague, so it’d be good to know more specifics.
Not as accurate overall? Off a bench? Off barricades? Recoil management is worse? Is it heavier now? Balanced differently? What specifically is different from life with your PRS1?

Gotta have more info… better input better output.

 

[King_beardsly]

I think this is the most logical answer of them all and you gave it yourself.
Also this is the first you mentioned of the new cartridge as well.
Yes you have compounding variables here that are not what you’ve been used to and it takes time to get back up to speed.
You only mentioned “ performance” as changing. That’s kinda vague, so it’d be good to know more specifics.
Not as accurate overall? Off a bench? Off barricades? Recoil management is worse? Is it heavier now? Balanced differently? What specifically is different from life with your PRS1?

Gotta have more info… better input better output.

I realized after reading over my original post that I might have been a bit too vague and thought I put more info out but apparently I was very wrong.

So what I’ve noticed is it will shoot a stellar group for three or so shots and then I get a couple “flyers” that creates an equally good group but takes it from say .5” to 1” which isn’t the end of the world but makes me chase my tail trying to get a super solid zero. The stock feels a maybe a wee bit tail heavy due to that anchor of a butt spacer weight, I mean the gorend is almost fully weighted to attempt to overcome the butt weight since it’s not a mile long truck axle for a barrel.

In regards to the new caliber it’s .223, so recoil is pretty much zero compared to the 308 I was running up until this year for matches. I’ve also learned that apparently 223 isn’t exactly the most user friendly in regards to tuning compared to the dasher or few other comp calibers I’ve played with in the past.