- Thread starter Zback
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You can either red loctite the brake to your rifle, wait a day, and unscrew it. Or you can get a 5/8 or whatever threaded stud and use a jam nut
This happened to me because I mocked one up with NTB brake just to see what it looked like. Pretty much like a little kid that couldn’t wait till the next day. This was just the other night so I haven’t got it out yet. I was going to try a nut and bolt threaded in and then tighten the nut down carefully. Like I said haven’t tried it yet.
The jamb nut mentioned by Zak works. I installed 11 for work. Had several come off. Had local gunsmith spin one up. Honestly, if I would have used the correct TBAC recommended loctite and given it time to set up, I would have avoided the issue.
^^^^^^ Why would you not use red loctite on the first installation?
My TBAC can with brake and my Hellfire brake are different. If i want to switch I need to take it off. That's why I use blue or nothing.
5/8 x24 or 1/2 x28 bolt with jam nut. Works every time but don't ask me how I know.
Because Hellfire doesn’t actually use a Taper.
JP Rifles jam nut and a Precision Armament muzzle thread adapter.
They aren't that hard to find
I use copper base anti seize on anything and everything I want to ever get off that also gets hot. Has worked well with suppressors and mounts. (Not mount to barrel, I put red loc tite (the high heat one) on that, but it can be gotten off with a torch.
How do you figure?
Area 419 Hellfire - Suppressor Mounts do not actually use the Tapers
I am a bit surprised to learn that Area 419's Hellfire system has abandoned the use of mated tapered surfaces for their suppressor mounts. Area 419 is well known for their offerings in the PRS and precision shooting world, but I came to them for a low profile and light weight universal...
www.snipershide.com The brakes use the taper, the suppressor mounts don’t.
We should have a communal tool& thread like this one:
Pay it forward to the "next guy" posting to thread who dorked it up with no loctite.
Pay it forward to the "next guy" posting to thread who dorked it up with no loctite.
I keep having this problem, one was so tight, TBAC had to machine out the brake from the can and refinish the can. 338 Ultra.
Yesterday, despite gobs of 272 locktite, can stuck on brake again after 24 rounds of 338 LM with high throughput barrel cooling in between. Went to take can off to go come, unscrewed the brake from the barrel. Came home, cleaned threads, more 272, off this AM (but the brake is not timed correctly now.)
I use the high temp anti-seize, didn't work this time. I keep my threads clean. I do not overtighten the can.
Is the AREA 419 Sidewinder a good solution to this problem? Is their tool in the above video available for purchase, I don't see it on the website.
Anybody have a video of the jam nut technique mentioned above?
Yesterday, despite gobs of 272 locktite, can stuck on brake again after 24 rounds of 338 LM with high throughput barrel cooling in between. Went to take can off to go come, unscrewed the brake from the barrel. Came home, cleaned threads, more 272, off this AM (but the brake is not timed correctly now.)
I use the high temp anti-seize, didn't work this time. I keep my threads clean. I do not overtighten the can.
Is the AREA 419 Sidewinder a good solution to this problem? Is their tool in the above video available for purchase, I don't see it on the website.
Anybody have a video of the jam nut technique mentioned above?
Did you have to use a strap wrench to get it off? Or just by hand? I ask because 272 should not be able to be broken loose by hand.
Sam posted a DT insert installion video to our Instagram, which is the opposite of using a jam nut to remove a brake.
I’m also thinking we should look at your brake/can again. I have shot big strings of 300 and 338 and my cans haven’t gotten stuck.
Sam posted a DT insert installion video to our Instagram, which is the opposite of using a jam nut to remove a brake.
I’m also thinking we should look at your brake/can again. I have shot big strings of 300 and 338 and my cans haven’t gotten stuck.
I have no use for that, since all my cans are HUB or DT, but that's someone that thought that one out. That's a neat tool. If I had one of these models, I would definitely have one of those tools in my range bag. LOL
I won't speak for Zak but rocksett has screwed me more than once. And atleast once on a Tbac CB mount
I have asked this before too.
Surefire cans come (or came in the past) with a little thing of rocksett - my SOCOM has never come loose but the attachment mechanism never binds up so it’s never really been put to the test
Yes, because Rocksett is no stronger than blue loctite.
Also, if you notice, with the Surefire "Fast Attach" cans, the body of the suppressor is not rotated to remove them. It's just the collar that you turn and then the can comes straight off, so there isn't a lot of rotation torque (in the loosening direction) applied when you remove them. I'd hazard a guess that's why they get away with using Rocksett.
ETA-- Red loctite has a lot higher breakaway torque, and #272 is so gummy when it's set, that even if you technically melted it, a muzzle device is not coming loose anyway.
Also, if you notice, with the Surefire "Fast Attach" cans, the body of the suppressor is not rotated to remove them. It's just the collar that you turn and then the can comes straight off, so there isn't a lot of rotation torque (in the loosening direction) applied when you remove them. I'd hazard a guess that's why they get away with using Rocksett.
ETA-- Red loctite has a lot higher breakaway torque, and #272 is so gummy when it's set, that even if you technically melted it, a muzzle device is not coming loose anyway.
Definitely has been my experience with it. I've been using the permatex 27200 I think it is (high temp red locktite) on my qd breaks for years now and never had any issue. When I want to take it off I hit with a torch for a few seconds and unscrew. It's so gummy even when super hot that it takes constant corce to get anything to turn, but if you do want to remove it, you can. It's ideal.
Also, a small qtip dab of marine-tex on the barrel threads really solves the problem also. No more worry about red vs blue either
Seems like there is a lot of users that don't properly torque their brakes. Max torque for a 316 stainless 1/2-20 fastener is around 65lbft and 5/8-18 is over 100lbft. I have never seen a muzzle brake installed with just 35lbft just twist off by hand. Thread locker shouldn't be necessary.
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Never had direct thread jamb yet. LOL I can take the extra 3 seconds.
Mine too.
A good whack with a soft mallet used to get it to come loose. Now, the break might as well be welded on.
Thanks for the explanation, Zak, I appreciate it. I have definitely had Q style mounts get stuck in cans using rocksett myself, regardless of where the taper is! I'll take the more compact tbac system. My company owns and produces Loctite; this kind of talk helps my bonus let's keep it up
Lots of conflicting experiences and advices in this thread that’s for sure
The thing that gets me is the guys saying "just torque it to XYZ foot pounds and it ain't coming off!"
Well, not unless your suppressor is welded on there so GD tight that you can apply more than XYZ foot pounds and the threads offering least resistance are the ones between the brake and the barrel, rather than the ones between the brake and the can.
There is plenty of evidence/experience that the carbon can seize the can up tighter than the ROYGBIV choose your rainbow color locktite can hold the muzzle device. As seen in this thread (e.g., "my Ultra7 is now a DT")
Well, not unless your suppressor is welded on there so GD tight that you can apply more than XYZ foot pounds and the threads offering least resistance are the ones between the brake and the barrel, rather than the ones between the brake and the can.
There is plenty of evidence/experience that the carbon can seize the can up tighter than the ROYGBIV choose your rainbow color locktite can hold the muzzle device. As seen in this thread (e.g., "my Ultra7 is now a DT")
Sure, you can get a brake so stuck it has to be machined out. User error led to that point though.
I imagine thermal expansion properties can have an effect on muzzle devices loosening.
If the muzzle device is made of a material that that will expand more than the barrel at any given heat, it would be more prone to loosening if exposed to high heat.
This is all conjecture as I haven't looked into different muzzle device materials and their thermal expansion properties when compared to the typical SS barrel, but it's a cursory thought.
Having dealt with the general public, and reading the posts in this thread, I am comfortable concluding 99% are user error. Most likely they spun the mount on with loktite and minimal torque (if not hand tight). The glue didn't bond and there wasn't sufficient torque to retain the brake. 35lbft with a 3/8 torque wrench on a muzzle brake feels like a fair amount of torque and it doesn't just come off by hand. Someone even said they "installed 11 for work" and several came off. How is that even possible if any torque at all was used? The answer is it isn't possible and that person shouldn't be doing installs for their employer.
I agree in that most issues related to suppressors and mounts are user error.
Carbon and very high heat is not a tolerable environment for user error.
So now you're smarter and know better than what the manufacturer recommends? Ha!
Well, I'm not smarter than the manufacturer, but I'm not dumb. And my darned can keeps getting stuck! With Red 272! And even the manufacturer had to machine my brake out of my 338 Ultra can, without identifying what made it so hard for them too, so there's something there.
Or should they just have screwed it onto a barrel with some 272, waited a day, and twisted it off with more elbow grease than I'm capable of?
Or should they just have screwed it onto a barrel with some 272, waited a day, and twisted it off with more elbow grease than I'm capable of?
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My comment was only to him. Not commenting on you in any way. Sorry for your issues.
