Range Report Tech info on Bergers new 338 cal 300 grain Hybrid

[BryanLitz]

For those interested in this bullet, please see our blog article which gives an overview of the new bullets features and performance.

A more in-depth ballistic analysis can be found here

Eric Stecker presents a video update on Bergers home page regarding the release of the new bullet.

For ordering information, please call our tech line at (714) 447-5458

Please contact me if you have any questions regarding the information in the material linked above ([email protected])

Thank you,
-Bryan

 

[Austan]

Re: Tech info on Bergers new 338 cal 300 grain Hybrid

Good stuff Bryan. Is the hybrid ogive something that would benefit the smaller bullets as well or is it only noticeable in the larger bullets over a longer distance?

 

[BryanLitz]

Re: Tech info on Bergers new 338 cal 300 grain Hybrid

Austan,

The hybrid concept is being trialed in smaller calibers as well. If the results are good you can expect to see hybrid bullets in most or all calibers eventually.

-Bryan

 

[spot69221]

Re: Tech info on Bergers new 338 cal 300 grain Hybrid

Bryan, is table 5 correct on the 338 report?

 

[distantfoe]

Re: Tech info on Bergers new 338 cal 300 grain Hybrid

Wow what a bc for a "tune friendly" design. So does this mean there won't be a vld coming out?

 

[bailey1474]

Re: Tech info on Bergers new 338 cal 300 grain Hybrid

Great bullet. Kinda sucks that the only place to get them will be Sinclair.

 

[stenger]

Re: Tech info on Bergers new 338 cal 300 grain Hybrid

Thank god i have been waiting sooo long!!!

I was first told that there will be three differant designs coming are they still in the works? Also what kind of ogive does the lapua 300 bullets have brian just curous cause my gun loves them!

 

[BryanLitz]

Re: Tech info on Bergers new 338 cal 300 grain Hybrid

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bryan, is table 5 correct on the 338 report?</div></div>

Thanks for pointing that out, I fixed it.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was first told that there will be three differant designs coming are they still in the works? Also what kind of ogive does the lapua 300 bullets have</div></div>

We'll definitely make the Tangent ogive and the VLD, however if the VLD turns out not to have a higher BC than the hybrid and it's just harder to tune, we may drop the VLD.

The Scenar has a secant ogive.

-Bryan

 

[jbmillard]

Re: Tech info on Bergers new 338 cal 300 grain Hybrid

Bryan -- do you have a length for this bullet?

Thanks!

Brad

 

[badbot]

Re: Tech info on Bergers new 338 cal 300 grain Hybrid

Bryan,

If I may ask what will the .308 Hybrid weigh?
I have been hopeing and looking for a 225 to 235ish pill.

Happy to test if you need me.

 

[BryanLitz]

Re: Tech info on Bergers new 338 cal 300 grain Hybrid

The OAL of the 300 grain bullet is 1.820"

We'll also be making these in 250 grain (but not lighter).

-Bryan

 

[hypertex]

Re: Tech info on Bergers new 338 cal 300 grain Hyb

Ordered two boxes to try in the Snipetac

 

[JC Steel]

Re: Tech info on Bergers new 338 cal 300 grain Hyb

can i order from you bryan? i am having the no luck getting ahold of that tech center.

 

[azimutha]

Re: Tech info on Bergers new 338 cal 300 grain Hyb

Wow. Read the blog entry and that is an impressive bullet. I would certainly like to try something like that in .308, although the fastest twist barrel I have is 11.25.

 

[Swede1945]

Re: Tech info on Bergers new 338 cal 300 grain Hyb

It seems like the hybrid ogive is another step for Berger toward the perfect long range bullet design, along with the next step of tweaking the boattail angle closer to 7 degrees.

However, Bryan's work has made it quite clear that the point is an area in need of some attention. As several of Bryan's articles illuminate, Berger's current point design benefits from either trimming to provide more uniform BCs or pointing to provide both higher BCs and better uniformity.

This is one area in which Berger seems to be lagging. Simple aluminum or polycarbonate tips provide both higher BCs and less shot-to-shot variation in drag without the shooter having to trim or point. When will we see Berger provide better points from the factory, either trimmer, pointed, aluminum, or polycarbonate? Some improvement here is truly needed in Berger's quest to provide the perfect long range bullet.

 

[TomS308]

Re: Tech info on Bergers new 338 cal 300 grain Hybrid

What we need are Rifles with longer magazines.. to accept these new longer, heavier bullets..

That goes for the other calibers too..

Magazine length has not kept up with the latest tech in bullets.

 

[bohem]

Re: Tech info on Bergers new 338 cal 300 grain Hyb

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Swede1945</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It seems like the hybrid ogive is another step for Berger toward the perfect long range bullet design, along with the next step of tweaking the boattail angle closer to 7 degrees.

However, Bryan's work has made it quite clear that the point is an area in need of some attention. As several of Bryan's articles illuminate, Berger's current point design benefits from either trimming to provide more uniform BCs or pointing to provide both higher BCs and better uniformity.

This is one area in which Berger seems to be lagging. Simple aluminum or polycarbonate tips provide both higher BCs and less shot-to-shot variation in drag without the shooter having to trim or point. When will we see Berger provide better points from the factory, either trimmer, pointed, aluminum, or polycarbonate? Some improvement here is truly needed in Berger's quest to provide the perfect long range bullet. </div></div>

I did some playing with this idea in a computer code that Eaglet published using Bryan's published equations.

I had the exact same discussion with a friend of mine adn we were doing a little thinking about how to make simple changes and improve existing bullets without too many changes.

From the measured meplat diameters (of the BT's) I got from Amax bullets, the jump in theoretical BC was incredible. A 180 Berger with a ballistic tip in it had an estimated increase of around .2 on the G1, IE it went from .659 to .859+

 

[esorensen]

Re: Tech info on Bergers new 338 cal 300 grain Hyb

I wonder if there is a way to dissect the 162 AMAX and pull out the poly tip and somehow mod the tip of the VLD to accept the Hornady tip and make some accurate measurements. I don't think I could do it well enough to make it fly worth a shit, but maybe enough to measure.

 

[stenger]

Re: Tech info on Bergers new 338 cal 300 grain Hyb

There is one thing about these bullets with the messed up points. look at the point and it should be messed up looking like most of them. Look for it to be a little longer on one side. If it is a little longer on one side, it is due to the uneven swaging of the lead inside the jacket.That means that you have more lead on one side of the bullet. So pointing them will only help so much. But thats how most of them are so we just have to deal with it. Sierras are really bad for this. i wish some one would start to make some hand made custom bullets.

My 300 have been shipped and i plan on testing them next week ill keep you all posted.

 

[Vindex]

Re: Tech info on Bergers new 338 cal 300 grain Hyb

Bryan,

Per the Berger site, it seems like the 300 grain ina magazine is a no go. Would the 250 tocome have a COL that coud be mag fed?

 

[hypertex]

Re: Tech info on Bergers new 338 cal 300 grain Hyb

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Vulcan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bryan,
Per the Berger site, it seems like the 300 grain ina magazine is a no go. Would the 250 tocome have a COL that coud be mag fed? </div></div>

HUH? .030 off the lands

 

[Vindex]

Re: Tech info on Bergers new 338 cal 300 grain Hyb

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hypertex</div><div class="ubbcode-body">HUH? .030 off the lands

</div></div>

http://02b0516.netsolhost.com/blog1/?p=117

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The superior ballistic performance of the 300 grain Hybrid is primarily due to the long ogive and boat tail. However these design features do present some unique challenges not present with other conventional (shorter) designs.

First, these bullets may challenge the OAL constraints of loaded rounds that need to feed through a magazine. If you’re considering these bullets for use in your .338 rifle, be advised this may be an issue and proceed with care in this area. You may need to single load the rounds if they’re too long to cycle through the magazine. There are considerations that can be made when having a custom rifle built (like shortening the throat) which may allow these rounds to feed through the magazine.
</div></div>

What I was asking was whether the new 250's with the hybrid ogive can be magazine fed. .030 off the lands may be fine for single feed rigs but could force you to seat the bullet deeper that it should be for the performance it was designed for in magazine fed rifles with the 300 grain bullet.

 

[hypertex]

Re: Tech info on Bergers new 338 cal 300 grain Hyb

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Vulcan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
What I was asking was whether the new 250's with the hybrid ogive can be magazine fed. .030 off the lands may be fine for single feed rigs but could force you to seat the bullet deeper that it should be for the performance it was designed for in magazine fed rifles with the 300 grain bullet. </div></div>

I guess my attempt at humor was a no go... the micrometer is straddling a loaded magazine

I actually cannot seat the bullet long enough to contact the lands

 

[bohem]

Re: Tech info on Bergers new 338 cal 300 grain Hyb

Stenger- JLK makes hand made custom bullets, they're exceptional, the cost is similar to Bergers, the jackets are the same, and the BC's are just as good or better.

The BIG downside? They're made by hand, so order 1000 now and they arrive in about 6-9 months... I've shot some of the 175 and 180's in 30 cal and I have a 100 of the 130's in 6.5mm to try next, they shoot really well... For the sake of availability though, most of the serious competition guys I talk to are willing to take the slight hit in BC so that they can call up a supplier, order enough for the season and they arrive in 2-3 weeks max.

As far as disecting 162 Amax's, I thought about this, and it's easy to get the BT's off the bullets (I did it accidentally with a couple 178's one time) but sticking them back into the nose on another bullet and keeping it there, as well as matching the profile... now that's a whole other story.