Rifle Scopes Tempted to spring for my first high dollar scope.......ATACR or PMii?

[nn8734]

I’m not going to be that picky on reticle or moa/mil choice.

Lol,
Of all the things taken into consideration when buying a scope, esp scopes at this price point, you should be picky when it comes to those two. Can’t imagine getting behind a $2500+ optic, realizing I made the wrong choice in reticle or adjustment system.

everything else is largely a wash between the two.

 

[trophyhunter]

I’m a grown ass man, I swear a lot, like chingos

 

[Sureshot300norma]

Neither,1st choice - Valdada .The Valdada ,Recon 2, Terminator and Crusader are the best of the best. Research them to your heart's content.No scope features and tracking will come close. Only downside one reticle ,but in mil/mil, moa/moa with turrets. SFP Terminator will do both mil or moa at set magnification on reticle for holdovers and measurements.

 

[Arc Light]

 

[nn8734]

Neither,1st choice - Valdada .The Valdada ,Recon 2, Terminator and Crusader are the best of the best. Research them to your heart's content.No scope features and tracking will come close. Only downside one reticle ,but in mil/mil, moa/moa with turrets. SFP Terminator will do both mil or moa at set magnification on reticle for holdovers and measurements.

opposing views

https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/ior-valdada.6800403/

If you’re just trolling, then well played. If not....

 

[Wyfox]

Neither,1st choice - Valdada .The Valdada ,Recon 2, Terminator and Crusader are the best of the best. Research them to your heart's content.No scope features and tracking will come close. Only downside one reticle ,but in mil/mil, moa/moa with turrets. SFP Terminator will do both mil or moa at set magnification on reticle for holdovers and measurements.

Silly Newb. Valdada is straight garbage.

This thread just keeps getting more epic!

 

[Sureshot300norma]

Silly Newb. Valdada is straight garbage.

This thread just keeps getting more epic!

You have all three of the new made in Japan models ,serviced in Texas? I'm not talking about the IOR Romania Bucharest scopes. I am talking about Valdada in Texas.

 

[JakeM]

Your talking about endorsed crap.

 

[Sureshot300norma]

Your talking about endorsed crap.

I see this sight is going to be fun,haaahaaa.

 

[Sureshot300norma]

Several guys are slapping these garbage scopes on some of the rifles made for king of 2 miles. Guess their just junk.

 

[Tactical_Tom]

I have a PMII it does tunnel noticeable at lower power it might not matter, but they have a new generation of scopes it might be a good time to wait, and look for something at a good price. I never owned a Nightforce, but I can't say I was super impressed by the glass in some of the older NSX's ones I looked though. The higher end Valdada stuff is suppose to have good glass. I wouldn't buy one unless it was a good deal, but I find it hard to believe they are trash at the price they are asking. There is some nice stuff coming from Leica, Kahles, Steiner, and Minox as well. The only way to be sure it buy them all, and resell what you don't like.

 

[Glassaholic]

Neither,1st choice - Valdada .The Valdada ,Recon 2, Terminator and Crusader are the best of the best. Research them to your heart's content.No scope features and tracking will come close. Only downside one reticle ,but in mil/mil, moa/moa with turrets. SFP Terminator will do both mil or moa at set magnification on reticle for holdovers and measurements.

Val, welcome back to the forums, it's been a while.

The higher end Valdada stuff is suppose to have good glass. I wouldn't buy one unless it was a good deal, but I find it hard to believe they are trash at the price they are asking.

"Glass" has never really been the issue for IOR. The G2 is not IOR, it is made in Japan, but again, there's more to a scope than just the glass (and I'm a glass guy). Valdada has never been "cheap" but there's a reason why resale value tends to be so poor on these scopes. Do your research and you'll find that Valdada is a risky gamble, customer service is suspect.... maybe they have turned a corner and are making scopes that are just as reliable and repeatable as their price justifies; however, Val is well known for making bold claims about his scopes, claims very similar to those of Sureshot above which is why I made my sarcastic remark.

I offered to review the G2 soon after it came out but Val was not interested in sending me one knowing how his scopes get bashed on the Hide, I don't blame him really, and I was willing to give it a fair assessment, but am not willing to spend my money on the scope knowing the loss I'd take in selling it. There was some very bad blood between Frank and Val a number of years ago, but the general consensus from a number of Hide members who were willing to take a risk got burned and just didn't want to have to deal with the attitude. To be honest the G2 sounds like an interesting design from Japan; however, Val is still using a 40mm tube and the myth that larger tubes allow more light still dominates the shooting world (and historically promoted by the Valdada supporters), the only real benefit to the larger tube is having more travel and the G2 does have an impressive 42 mils; however, Schmidt has been getting 35 mils out of 34mm for quite some time, and the new March 5-42x56 High Master has 40 mil of travel in a 34mm tube so why is Val using 40mm tubes as I've never seen him make the claim similar to ZCO where the larger tube is allowing for better IQ at the extremes of the adjustment range.

 

[OldBrit]

For me being based in the UK it's no contest PM11 every time to understand why I say that you have to see the price of Nightforce over here

 

[Sureshot300norma]

Val, welcome back to the forums, it's been a while.


"Glass" has never really been the issue for IOR. The G2 is not IOR, it is made in Japan, but again, there's more to a scope than just the glass (and I'm a glass guy). Valdada has never been "cheap" but there's a reason why resale value tends to be so poor on these scopes. Do your research and you'll find that Valdada is a risky gamble, customer service is suspect.... maybe they have turned a corner and are making scopes that are just as reliable and repeatable as their price justifies; however, Val is well known for making bold claims about his scopes, claims very similar to those of Sureshot above which is why I made my sarcastic remark.

I offered to review the G2 soon after it came out but Val was not interested in sending me one knowing how his scopes get bashed on the Hide, I don't blame him really, and I was willing to give it a fair assessment, but am not willing to spend my money on the scope knowing the loss I'd take in selling it. There was some very bad blood between Frank and Val a number of years ago, but the general consensus from a number of Hide members who were willing to take a risk got burned and just didn't want to have to deal with the attitude. To be honest the G2 sounds like an interesting design from Japan; however, Val is still using a 40mm tube and the myth that larger tubes allow more light still dominates the shooting world (and historically promoted by the Valdada supporters), the only real benefit to the larger tube is having more travel and the G2 does have an impressive 42 mils; however, Schmidt has been getting 35 mils out of 34mm for quite some time, and the new March 5-42x56 High Master has 40 mil of travel in a 34mm tube so why is Val using 40mm tubes as I've never seen him make the claim similar to ZCO where the larger tube is allowing for better IQ at the extremes of the adjustment range.

Now that is a very fair assessment based on your experience on the current Valdada scope. Here is mine. A PRB engineer did a very comprehensive scope test, one of the most extensive I have seen and still have seen around 6 years ago. A Valdada 4-28x50 was the only scope out of all of them that got a perfect score of 40 in tracking. The scopes they have in their line now are far superior to the scope in the test.S&B did win the overall test ,I will add as they usually do. The newest Valdada has German LD Schott glass throughout, then the objective lense is Japanese LD glass for clarity. The 40mm is not going to allow higher light transfer is what I have heard from several engineers, although some claim it does - so I don't know. I believe the bigger tube allows a much broader eye box view ,thus appearing much brighter is my take on it. The Valdada's are also known for full clarity throughout the entire zoom range.So lastly many of the people on this forum are saying this one is better than this one ,etc. Many of these scopes are made or made from parts that are coming from Japan at Two factories. Nightforce,Leupold mark 5,Vortex razor, Minox, March , Burris, Bushnell, Delta and many more. Concerning S&B ,two buddies of mine had tracking issues several years after the two year warranty. S&B was nice enough to charge $700.00 each to fix the tracking outside of warranty. If people think that any scope made is not subjective to needing a repair under conditions a scope is subjected to ,they have lost their mind. March has shown as high of error as 2.5-3 percent in tracking , which is bad in this classification of classes of optics.Several guys will be testing the G2 for king of 2 miles , they are top shooters and have placed very high several times. We will see how these Valdada scopes pan out.

 

[Tactical_Tom]

I think the Japanese have some good factory's, and know how to makes good scopes, and do quality control, but I feel that something is lost by having so many different scopes that are made there, under so many different brands. With and LOW basically being just an OEM. It would be nice to be more sure about the origin, and engineering behind some of those made in Japan scopes.

 

[hausser]

308? 500y? OK. Pushing it to 1000Y with a 308 becomes more iffy. Even with heavy pills and no wind the ave supersonic to subsonic range is right in that 900 to 1100 arena, depending. The OP could do extremely well with something less high dollar than S&B., NF, US Optics, etc. It's not needed for 308. For $1.5 to 2K the OP would do very well with quality optics and a lifetime warranty. Now if he (or she) were shooting long range stuff, that would be a different story.

 

[Sureshot300norma]

308? 500y? OK. Pushing it to 1000Y with a 308 becomes more iffy. Even with heavy pills and no wind the ave supersonic to subsonic range is right in that 900 to 1100 arena, depending. The OP could do extremely well with something less high dollar than S&B., NF, US Optics, etc. It's not needed for 308. For $1.5 to 2K the OP would do very well with quality optics and a lifetime warranty. Now if he (or she) were shooting long range stuff, that would be a different story.

I agree , a Leupold LRP, Nightforce SHV.would be excellent choices in and under 1k.

 

[ubettcha]

For the Denys owner, cool place to get breakfast after the lights come on in the club lol.
1500yds with a 20"308

 

[texasrecurve]

Surprise! The OP is back! I normally don’t make it a habit to ask for advice then disappear for a few days but my dang job frequently gets in the way of my playtime. I’m sure some of y’all can relate. I did get to read a lot of the answers Fri night, so thanks for the many helpful suggestions. My first initial thoughts........
1) No, I’m not interested in F class, 99% of y’all figured that out when I said what rifle I was getting and which 2 scopes I was interested in. Not bashing F class.....heck when I get old with failing eyesight I may just give it a try.

2) I live in Young County, Texas (right on the edge of west Texas) and yes there are numerous 1000 yard ranges not too far from me......Mingus, Gainesville, Waco, Sonora. Mingus being only 50 miles away. Heck, two of the aforementioned have distances up to a mile.

3) This rifle actually has a pedigree as a working sniper rifle. I purchased it from a police department SWAT unit in South Carolina.......so I figured......”Snipershide”, perfect forum for my rifle. I assumed those pesky F class shooters had their own forum to hang out in!

 

[PrecisionRifleGuy]

At the end of the day if you can get behind both and ATACR and a PM2 you will make your own decision Using a number of factors. Cost, feel, confidence in the brand and how you perceive the quality of the glass. I own both an ATACR and a PM2 and my feeling is the ATACR is a better scope for me and the rifle I'm using it on. The PM2 is a beautiful scope too and I'll most likely never sell it. Now to make the choice mate.

 

[Tactical_Tom]

There are a few things I don't like about the PMII other then the tunneling at between 5-7 power, or so which is significant. I think the PMII 5-25 should really be though of as a 7-25 power scope, setting it to 5 power does not improve the field of view. I don't particularly care for the double turn turrets, I think I like a pop-out indicator for the second rotation is better. The bright yellow markings could possibly standout, but that is likely paranoia on my part. The turrets on the PMII have a nice feeling, but the ATACR might have a little fancier milling on the rings, and I prefer the solid white scale makings. The warranty is not as good for the PMII and scopes do break. Still I have more faith in the PMII working reliability, and its more proven.

 

[Glassaholic]

The warranty is not as good for the PMII and scopes do break. Still I have more faith in the PMII working reliability, and its more proven.

Regarding warranty, both ATACR and PMII are manufactured outside the USA; however, both are serviced here in the USA. The Nightforce has a limited lifetime warranty with a limit of 3 years on electronics, Schmidt has a 30 year warranty but I have not been able to find anything regarding a limitation on electronics. Both companies stand behind their products.

Maybe on other thing to point out, if the OP would prefer a Christmas tree reticle then Schmidt does not have much to offer unless you're into Horus reticles, for a while Schmidt offered the Gen 2XR reticle but these are few and far between. On the other hand the Mil-XT is pretty new from Nightforce so you may not find many "used". I still think you should look for the reticle you think will benefit you the most, after all this is what you'll be looking at every time you take a shot, and allow that to be the deciding factor for which scope to use.

 

[TimK]

I have both scopes in 5-25 versions. I'm not super picky about glass, but I have to give the nod to the SB there. I think the eyebox might be a little easier to deal with on the SB, too. They're close enough in performance that I'd be making that decision base on who had a reticle I liked better. I won't bore you with my preferences in reticles, but in my pea brain that's the real reason to choose one over the other.

 

[SlimBlundt]

I'm a little confused when I see the words "long range shooting" and "308 20 inch barrel" together in the same sentence and there isn't a negation in it.

Next I see that we're talking 500 yards, so that takes way the "long" in "long range shooting" and my universe is back on track. Only to be shaken again when I see 1000, but without a unit of measure. Of course, neither scope being discussed is suitable for "long range shooting" but then again, maybe with a 20 inch barrel, we're just doing artillery shooting.

I would suggest that if you want to shoot 1000 yards and there are 1000 yard ranges close to you, you might want to go there and see what scopes are used at those ranges. I'm in Texas and I belong to one of the few 1000 yard ranges in Texas, Bayou Rifles, Inc. Which ones are you talking about?

Hey now, he’s asking about glass for
LR shooting. He’ll figure out soon enough that a 20” .308 leaves him wanting. He can find the right scope now and upgrade the rifle later.

S&B has recently restricted distribution to a single US retailer. If you ever have a problem with a $3000 scope, Id much rather deal with NF. If there’s ever a problem They’ll get your scope back to 100% and you’ll have it back in 3 to 6 weeks. Unless you used the scope to shingle your barn or frame your basement, you’ll never get a bill from NF in the unlikely event you have to send the scope in for work.