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Test Results: Accuracy/Precision of Annealed, Non-Annealed, COAL to Magazine Length and ti

Also if you don't have an annealer and try to anneal your brass by hand your results will vary as you can never do each case exactly the same and put your flame in same spot on every case.
Here is a pic of my setup.

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Thanks for the info. I, too, believe annealing improves accuracy. I have come nowhere near running a test like this, but when going out for practice, I have noted that the annealed loads shot markedly better as compared to the non-annealed loads loaded to the same specs.
 
Thanks for the work you put into this test. I would think the test would be more conclusive if one would take the person out of the equation with a solid mounted rifle. Just like pistols mounted to ransom rest

I would think that companies that make these equipment annealers published some data for the consumer make purchase decisions instead the other way around.
 
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I would think that companies that make these equipment annealers published some data for the consumer make purchase decisions instead the other way around.

110% agree on that point. If a product is truly able to produce improvement, they should document it with before and after results. Seems like it would be easy to quantify.
 
As for taking the person out over the equation, well I shoot totally free recoil only part of me that touches the gun is my finger on the trigger and I have my trigger set at 1oz so the rest is me reading wind and aligning the rifle back up to same aiming point. I'm not sure how much more or less involved a person can get as my rifle is already shooting groups in the zeros and as mentioned largest group was still under 1/8" and those that shot out of the zero range were brass that was annealed then after that first firing those went back to shooting zeros with either FL and neck sizing or just neck sizing only.


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110% agree on that point. If a product is truly able to produce improvement, they should document it with before and after results. Seems like it would be easy to quantify.

It's not about improvement of accuracy the annealer are to prolong the life of your brass from repeated firings and sizing. They get work hardened and this is when you get split necks or inconsistent groups due to work hardened brass

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That fine guys that you grouping at 100yd.Try your test at 300 or 600 yds and see what happens.Im thinking of Annealing to but need to see some pics of targets at longer ranges of your results.
 
That fine guys that you grouping at 100yd.Try your test at 300 or 600 yds and see what happens.Im thinking of Annealing to but need to see some pics of targets at longer ranges of your results.
I will defitnely shoot groups at 300 after retesting at 100. Wish I would have had enough ammo to perform longer range test also but simply limited on first run. Will retest with 300-380 yards when conditions allow. (Very low wind and/or consisitent velocity direction.). I simply prefer 100 for groups to have limited effects of drift due to wind.
 
That fine guys that you grouping at 100yd.Try your test at 300 or 600 yds and see what happens.Im thinking of Annealing to but need to see some pics of targets at longer ranges of your results.


I'm shooting a 600 yard IBS match this coming Saturday first two targets will be alternated with annealed + FL+ neck sized cases then the next target will be shot with FL + neck sized only cases. I will alternate between the two as we shoot 4 targets. I will post results once I'm back and rested up.
 
I'm shooting a 600 yard IBS match this coming Saturday first two targets will be alternated with annealed + FL+ neck sized cases then the next target will be shot with FL + neck sized only cases. I will alternate between the two as we shoot 4 targets. I will post results once I'm back and rested up.

Sweet!
 
I'm shooting a 600 yard IBS match this coming Saturday first two targets will be alternated with annealed + FL+ neck sized cases then the next target will be shot with FL + neck sized only cases. I will alternate between the two as we shoot 4 targets. I will post results once I'm back and rested up.
These results will be interesting.
 
I'm shooting a 600 yard IBS match this coming Saturday first two targets will be alternated with annealed + FL+ neck sized cases then the next target will be shot with FL + neck sized only cases. I will alternate between the two as we shoot 4 targets. I will post results once I'm back and rested up.

Cool,I will wait for your results
 
I'm home and I'm whooped no sleep since 8 am Friday morning. My groups that were annealed and FL and neck sized shot 1" larger than the brass that had one firing on them after being annealed. Those one firings were FL and neck sized only. So for those who anneal don't expect accuracy on the first firing.

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I finished sizing about 300 of the same lot of Lapua brass last week, once fired, and saw more variation in shoulder bump dimension than I would have liked to. I'd have to remeasure, but there was a variance of maybe 3 thousandths if I remember correctly? I was using an RCSB Rockchucker w/ the RCSB shellplate. It was enough that I'm going to run them through my rifle to make sure they all chamber easily enough before I load them.

After running the case into the sizing die, try rotating the case a quarter turn and running it back into the die a second time. I found that reduced my headspace variation to practically nil.
 
Those one firings were FL and neck sized only.


Not sure I understand the "FL and neck sized only". I deprime and clean before annealing. After annealing I then F/L size only using a Forster BR sizing die. Cases are straight as can be (well under .001" TIR) and neck tensions are uniform, having the same "feel" when seating. I actually do see great accuracy on the first firing after annealing and now anneal after every firing. I prefer to anneal before any other operation (other than cleaning) so that I'm "working' uniform brass and not taking a chance that the stress relieving of the annealing process will change any of what I accomplished during the sizing process.
 
For guys that are and aren't seeing accuracy differences on first fire after annealing:

What brass are you using?

What temperature control method are you using to determine annealing time?
 
For guys that are and aren't seeing accuracy differences on first fire after annealing:

What brass are you using?

What temperature control method are you using to determine annealing time?
I am using Winchester, Federal and Lapua brass for several different calibers. I use the 650 Tempilac and using a timer to time all my brass as I anneal. No issues with accuracy so far.
 
I'm home and I'm whooped no sleep since 8 am Friday morning. My groups that were annealed and FL and neck sized shot 1" larger than the brass that had one firing on them after being annealed. Those one firings were FL and neck sized only. So for those who anneal don't expect accuracy on the first firing.

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Great thread so far, thanks for the info.

For the record, that was an additional 1" in group size at 600 yards?

What were the average group sizes?
 
Not sure I understand the "FL and neck sized only". I deprime and clean before annealing. After annealing I then F/L size only using a Forster BR sizing die. Cases are straight as can be (well under .001" TIR) and neck tensions are uniform, having the same "feel" when seating. I actually do see great accuracy on the first firing after annealing and now anneal after every firing. I prefer to anneal before any other operation (other than cleaning) so that I'm "working' uniform brass and not taking a chance that the stress relieving of the annealing process will change any of what I accomplished during the sizing process.

I bump my cases back and neck size in 2 different sequences instead if doing at all at the same time.

As for my targets the two targets I shot with annealed cases at 600 were in high 3" make. Nothing at all be proud of. The non annealed cases shot mid 2"
Today I went to St Louis for another 600 Yard IBS shoot and this time I only had the cases neck sized and I shot a four target agg of 1.705 for HG class and won HG group agg.

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Yalls results may vary but based on my findings and results I can say the proof is on the paper. With enough data in past two days to back up my claim first annealed brass isn't going to provide the best groups.

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I'm home and I'm whooped no sleep since 8 am Friday morning. My groups that were annealed and FL and neck sized shot 1" larger than the brass that had one firing on them after being annealed. Those one firings were FL and neck sized only. So for those who anneal don't expect accuracy on the first firing.
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I have also noticed that my ammo shoots differently right after being annealed, but returned back to normal after the first firing. I thought something was wrong with my load at first.

Quick question, what is the purpose of resizing after you anneal the brass? Could you resize before or would the brass change after annealing, just wondering? Sorry for the dumb question, but I never asked why that step is after when I purchased my annealing machine.
 
I am also onboard with that theory... The first test I ran (the pictures in the first post) were from cases that had not been annealed in 5 firings.

Made it range yesterday and freshly annealed cases ran a "slight" bit smaller but frankly within my rifle average at .75 to 1". These were annealed on the prior fire and again for this fire.

It makes me think that freshly annealed brass can be too soft and a small amount of work hardness helps consistency. If you let brass go for a while without annealing, they will drop off accuracy at some point but not right away.

Good info James!
 
I typically use a cycle of 2-3 firings between annealing sessions.

I have no empirical evidence that this is an appropriate method, but then again, I am not a fine bench rest shooter.
 
So I re-examined the groups from my firing yesterday and did find that the annealed groups were statistically more consistent and accurate than the non-annealed; However they were still close to the average group that I fire with this rifle ( I consider 3/4 MOA a good group, 1MOA an acceptable group; 1.5 moa bad group). My fouling/warm up group (not pictured) was 1.094 inches for first 5 shots from gun using a extra set of the annealed rounds, so that would technically increase the average of the annealed group to about 0.811" . Mirage was a bit hefty during the first 4 groups but still managed to shoot well.

Let add that I accidentally left 4.5 moa vertical on the rifle when shooting the third Annealed group, so I simply left it there for the string and set back to zero for the non-annealed group, hence the reason for flipping the annealed/non-annealed in the third set. Here is picture of test groups:Annealed vs non-Annealed Aug10-14.jpg

Non-Annealed Groups Sizes:
1.408" Monopod
0.773" Monopod
1.127" Rear Bag
Avg: 1.103"

Annealed Group Sizes:
0.688" Monopod
0.871" Monopod
0.592" Rear Bag
Avg. 0.717"

Reduction in group average was 34% from Non-Annealed brass without warmup group and 15% with the warmup group and without first high shot. Even with the worst shot removed, the group sizes are consistently better with annealed brass. YMMV...

However, the interesting note is that statistically the annealed groups had a better (lower) vertical dispersion, even after tossing the high shot in the first group. But practically, the .18" difference in average is not going to be seen in the field unless shooting at least 1000k. it would amount to ~1/5 MOA variation at 1000 yds which if split between high and low, is only 1/8 min higher/lower from group center. The high shot in first group may have been me using inconsistent pressure on bipod/stock. Without the high shot, group centers would have been in the same location for all shots fired from monopod. Rear bag groups were also very similar to each other in terms of vertical and horizontal POI.

I do think annealing in a consistent manner will help brass life and possibly group size but frankly, its probably better to work on getting more consistent holds, recoil management, breathing cycle and NPA. If you shoot more tactical/steel like targets with a factory barrel, this may be the difference between hitting and missting that 1MOA steel. if your a benchrest shooter or have a custom/match barrel, you likely wouldn't see the same improvement as results would be more consistent due to better barrel like James experienced with only a 1/6 MOA difference in the opposite direction.

Anyway, numbers are just that... numbers... Im gonna get out and shoot. thats what counts, right? :)

Thanks to James, Rduckwor and everyone else for input on this thread!
 
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I have also noticed that my ammo shoots differently right after being annealed, but returned back to normal after the first firing. I thought something was wrong with my load at first.

Quick question, what is the purpose of resizing after you anneal the brass? Could you resize before or would the brass change after annealing, just wondering? Sorry for the dumb question, but I never asked why that step is after when I purchased my annealing machine.
I think this is typically to ensure uniform neck tension/neck size. Before annealing, the amount of spring back in cases is different (I think) and therefore sizing afterwards will improve uniformity.
 
Sent another quick group downrange today with annealed brass from last batch loaded a week ago. 5-shot group was .7" including cold bore... Shots 2-5 measured one .32" ragged hole. CB shoot was about
.25" left/low of rest of shots which is consistent for this rifle.
Haven't seen this kind of accuracy since ... Well ever. I am beginning to think that I've been missing out on significant consistency gains by not annealing more regularly over the last few years. Anyone else have results from a factory action/barrel? The aftermarket barrels likely produce great results regardless but would love to get feedback from someone with stock 700 or something similar.

Happy weekend!
 
I have had great results on several factory rifles 30-06 , 300 win mag it's definitely worth doing
 
Sent another quick group downrange today with annealed brass from last batch loaded a week ago. 5-shot group was .7" including cold bore... Shots 2-5 measured one .32" ragged hole. CB shoot was about
.25" left/low of rest of shots which is consistent for this rifle.
Haven't seen this kind of accuracy since ... Well ever. I am beginning to think that I've been missing out on significant consistency gains by not annealing more regularly over the last few years. Anyone else have results from a factory action/barrel? The aftermarket barrels likely produce great results regardless but would love to get feedback from someone with stock 700 or something similar.

Happy weekend!

Thanks for getting back to us. I love reading about these types of things!
 
Reviving this thread...

Ive be noticed the same as James that annealed cases do not display the same accuracy as the first firing after annealing. I'm wondering if anyone can test running an expander mandrel through freshly annealed cases and then resized again to simulate a firing whether or not it would do the same as actually firing the cases..
 
On my stock 5R in .308 after annealing and then resizing I have seen great groups, smaller then my non annealed brass. I will start to document more to have more concrete data