Range Report  Test your Software ! Let's monitor this with your help

lowlight

HMFIC of this Shit
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Minuteman
  • Apr 12, 2001
    33,085
    26,979
    Base of the Rockies
    www.snipershide.com
    Okay, software is super popular right now, from free Apps to more expensive dedicated programs, so let's test something out.

    The Challenge:

    Test your software on paper if possible or using a water mark on steel if you nothing else. We want to test this software at a minimum of 800 yards, although we will make concessions for those without the ability to access distances that far. If you do not have access to 800 yards, then you must first do multiple tests under varying conditions, most importantly your cold bore shot.

    The Parameters:

    Record your environmental conditions including wind @ shooter as measured by a meter. (if you do not have access to wind meter, then what you estimated the wind to be)
    Record your rifle & ammunition to include MV (if you do not have your muzzle velocity measured via chronograph explain your method to determine)
    Record the Elevation given by the Ballistic Solver
    Record the Actual Elevation needed to hit within a 1/4 MOA of Center of your Point of Aim (.1 Mils is good )
    Record the Wind Correction given by the Ballistic Solver
    Record the Actual Wind hold needed to hit within 1/4 MOA of Center of your Point of Aim (.1 Mils is good)

    Basically record all the conditions, what your software was set too, and what it actually took to get within 1/4 MOA of center. Be sure to tell us if you trued your software and calibrated your scope.

    We want to see when asked to do it on demand, how your software performed on a measured target. We don't want what you did six months ago, we want a focused test that you did just prior to posting on here. What you say happened before is of no interest to us especially if you don't have everything recorded. Pictures help, so keep solid records when doing this.

    After you have gathered all the data above, post your findings here. Details matter.
     

    lowlight

    HMFIC of this Shit
    Staff member
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    Minuteman
  • Apr 12, 2001
    33,085
    26,979
    Base of the Rockies
    www.snipershide.com
    Can't believe we have posts every single day about,

    "My software doesn't line up" and yet nobody is bothering to monitor and record their data here.

    Been seeing some interesting results, particularly with windage, but alas, nobody is stepping up.
     

    briscoetab

    Sergeant
    Minuteman
    Sep 17, 2011
    255
    56
    37
    west texas
    Lowlight, I just saw this thread. I will contribute as soon as I can.

    I just developed new load that I have not shot other than while I was developing, I will be gathering all the data on it anyways so it will be perfect time to use that data for this too. Hopefully I'll have something to post by Monday.

    I don't have any real problems with the programs though (I mean they have been close enough to satisfy me) but I will post it for u and everyone else . Im curious what other will find too.

    I will say now I don't have an accurate way to get humidity or pressure right now, so my data will hurt from that. Everything else I can accurately measure.
     

    hondo1312

    Sergeant
    Minuteman
    May 8, 2011
    456
    96
    Wichita, KS
    I will try to get some detailed data for Shooter the weekend of May 17-18. I will be able to shoot out to 1400 yds that weekend. All environmental data will come from a Kestrel 4000. Muzzle velocity will come from a magnetospeed V2.
     

    damoncali

    Gunny Sergeant
    Minuteman
    Mar 19, 2011
    1,377
    77
    47
    Omaha, Nebraska
    bisonballistics.com
    Rifle: Barnard Model P in 6XC with 30" barrel
    Scope: 2014 Nightforce Competition. 10 MOA of elevation was measured to be accurate within 1/4 MOA.
    Load: 39.0 grains of H4350, 107 SMK
    Velocity: 3,075 (magnetospeed) - only 5 shots recorded, and not very consistent. +/- 50 fps ES.

    Absolute Pressure: 28.44 inHg
    Temperature: 70 F
    Humidity: 40%

    Zero: 100 yards (measured with Rangefinder).

    600 yards (measured with Rangefinder):
    Angle of sight -4 degrees (measured with Rangefinder)
    10.0-10.25 MOA elevation required to center.

    JBM calculates 10.5 MOA elevation with a 0.262 G7 BC.
    Wind was all over the place on a tricky range, so I don't have any reliable numbers for that.
     
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    KYpatriot

    Sergeant
    Minuteman
    Mar 31, 2009
    706
    71
    47
    wishing i was in KY
    Good idea, just saw this.

    Wanted to re-emphasize something LL points out in his original request- This test will be useless if you haven't calibrated your scope. Unless you KNOW your scope is really tracking precisely in true MOA or true MILS then you won't be measuring the software.

    Damon just curious was your magnetospeed attached on your shots for record? I know it changes the zero on my rifles
     

    damoncali

    Gunny Sergeant
    Minuteman
    Mar 19, 2011
    1,377
    77
    47
    Omaha, Nebraska
    bisonballistics.com
    Good idea, just saw this.

    Wanted to re-emphasize something LL points out in his original request- This test will be useless if you haven't calibrated your scope. Unless you KNOW your scope is really tracking precisely in true MOA or true MILS then you won't be measuring the software.

    Damon just curious was your magnetospeed attached on your shots for record? I know it changes the zero on my rifles

    It was my first time using the Magneto speed, and I didn't have a lot of time, but I just strapped it on pretty tight, made sure I wouldn't shoot it, and put a few rounds through it. I was a little surprised by how much variation there was, as I haven't had much trouble with elevation at 600 with that load. I may have had some issues with setup, although I don't know what they'd be - it's pretty straightforward. I took it off before zeroing (and shooting at 600) just in case the bayonet moved things around. That rifle doesn't show any noticeable change with a cold bore either.
     

    Killswitch Engage

    Gunny Sergeant
    Minuteman
    Dec 23, 2008
    2,082
    995
    ohio
    Ok here's your data from 4pm today.

    shooter iPhone 5s
    running advanced with density altitude.
    Data gathered from kestrel 4000nv with calibration check today as follows
    temp 68.8f
    DA 2006ft
    wind 10-12mph 4-7oclock

    rifle is 6.5cm with bartlein 26" m40 barrel built by me.
    load is 140 Berger hybrid, 42.7gr h 4350, horn brass, fgmm 210m
    velocity is confirmed at 2850 by trajectory validation on various known target distances checked by laser.

    data input in shooter called for 2.6mil at 500yds bullet struck Poa for elevation. Aim point is 2.5"



    800yds and data entered required 5.5mil and I made a better wind call. Mirage was starting to become heavy tho.


    i think program and data is correct.
     
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    Rthur

    Philomath
    Minuteman
  • Apr 16, 2010
    12,321
    17,230
    52
    Not Chicago, Illinios
    5/4/14 3:00 pm
    Ballistic AE on IPhone
    Kestrel
    Wind @4:00ish 8-10
    Temp 73
    DA 1700ish
    6cm 105 Hybrid @ 3130ish by ALD Rifles over a oehler
    Kahles 624i
    849yards by Zeiss Bino
    AE called for 4.9 E and 1.0W running G7
    Shot was 4.8E and .8W
    My barrel may have picked up a little speed since the last chrono check.
    The terrain features could also account for the wind error.
    For a base dope solution it was pretty close.
    Sorry no pics

    I fine tuned the app and it seems to be giving dead nuts solutions, at least for that day.
    I should also add mirage was a bitch at times that day across bare dirt.
     
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    nicholas306

    Sergeant
    Minuteman
    Nov 30, 2008
    554
    2
    El Paso, Texas
    This morning:

    Kestrel 4000NV
    Baro 25.77
    Temp 71°
    Humidity 12%
    FGMM 175gr @ 2640fps (F1 Chrono)

    Target @ 641 yards (Leica 1600B)

    Shooter:
    U4.3 mils L.1 mils (G7)

    Actual: U4.3 mils L.5 mils

    Shooter was dead on at this range. Wind was fluctuating quite a bit, from nothing to 10mph. That's normal for this area at this time of year.

    Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk
     

    taliv

    Sergeant
    Minuteman
    Sep 21, 2010
    530
    1
    50
    TN
    I'll provide some data here and let you guys armchair QB this thing.... I'll say up front that my shooter on iphone / magnetospeed / kestrel has generated SPOT ON solutions in the past, but when I started this most recent lot of berger 140 hybrids, they were hitting a little low. there wasn't a single velocity that matched my 600/1000/1100 yard data, so i had to change my BC from .317 to .312 and that made it line up. So that was really just a guess and I'll be glad when I shoot these up and get to the next lot that is hopefully a known BC. fwiw, I shot the WV match and the Cup last weekend using .312 BC and didn't miss anything due to elevation (granted, the targets were generous vertically so that doesn't necessarily mean anything.) My data at the cup was based on velocity of 2999 fps. Based on today's test, I'd change both those numbers very slightly.

    Distances measured by plrf10c (from recent snipershide group buy)
    velocities measured by magnetospeed v2
    wind was light 2-4mph from 1-2 oclock measured by kestrel 4000NV, DA was 2600-2700, temp was 80

    I don't know exactly what you mean by truing the software or calibrating the scope, but about a month ago, I tested the scope on a large cardboard target at 100 yards, putting marks every 3.6", dialing up 7 mils and firing 1 round as i passed each mil mark. The rounds were close enough to the marks that I believe the scope is tracking up to at least 7 mils.

    rifle config in shooter:
    twist: 8.5"
    sight height: 2.137"

    procedure:
    wasn't really sure where my zero was since the magnetospeed changes POI and I cleaned the crap out of my suppressor for 3-4 days after the cup. So I started at 100 yards with 2 sighters in the center and made scope corrections. Then shot a 3 round group on top left to confirm zero. Shot 3 was a good trigger pull but my follow through was not so good. Still, i didn't 'call' it that far out. i dunno. Note: my last two shots of the day were also on this same target. For those two shots, POA was centered vertically and a right edge hold on the paper, as wind had almost died off. I think it's pretty much luck that they are that even elevation-wise.

    Also, I just realized my zero was .1 up and I didn't slip the knobs so subtract .1 from everything I wrote in the pictures.


    6-14d.jpg


    After zeroing, I backed up to the 1100 yard berm. The targets are 1087 for the paper and 12x20" rectangle, and the spin drift auto poppers are about 2 yards closer.
    I took 7 shots at the rectangle. They are numbered in order with velocities on the right.
    My hold on all the shots was about even with shot 3, and for wind, it varied from about .2 right to .4 right. Shooter said .2 - .3 mil right for 2-4mph @ 30*.

    Based on my zero velocity average of 2982 fps, shooter gave me a 7.9 mil solution. So I dialed that on the rifle (forgetting my zero was .1 up) and barely clipped the bottom of the target.
    Then I measured that as .3 low in the scope, and dialed up .3 plus another because I'm an idiot, and shot 2 was about .2 high. After that, I dialed down to 8.1 and shot all the rest of the rounds for the day with 8.1 mils on the scope (which is really 8.0 since my zero is up .1).

    Net, the shooter solution of 7.9 is off by .1, but that could be either my futzing with the BC, or the 2-4mph wind that was mostly in my face that I did not correct for. or both. Entering the wind into shooter, it tells me to add a click after I get to 5 mph, so it's entirely likely that there was a bit more wind downrange and I needed that click.


    After that, I took 5 shots at the 4"x4" head on the black 'bad guy' silhouette behind the white hostage. First shot hit the hostage. oops. But I tagged the head 3 out of 5 times total. And finally, I took the two shots on paper as requested by lowlight in the OP. By this time the sun was setting and the wind was almost calm.

    6-14e.jpg


    gratuitous pic of the target cam system and my firing position which as you can see was in the middle of a bunch of thistles. not the most comfortable firing point.
    6-14a.jpg


    close up
    6-14b.jpg


    view through scope. you can see the paper target on the left side of the wood frame.
    6-14c.jpg
     

    Ledzep

    Chancellor
    Minuteman
  • Jun 9, 2009
    3,295
    2,900
    NE
    Long Rifles .260 rem build on Remington 700 action.

    22" SS Bartlein barrel, 1:8 twist 5R rifling
    Leupold Mk6 3-18 TMR reticle, 2.03" over bore, passed 2 mil box test and 5 mil elevation test within accuracy of my shooting.

    140gr Hornady Amax, 42.3gr H4350, 2.800" COAL, rem brass, cci 200, 2715-2750 fps (no chrono data, back-solving with computers to get velocity). The unfortunate thing is that I don't trust my chrono and stopped using it. I backsolve with JBM and the free app "Strelok" to get velocity. I have had issues getting a complete match with my real world data, but am within .1 mil.

    I used Strelok to get an initial guess. Info put into the system was: 0.584 G1 BC, 2750fps, 2.03" over bore
    533yd: 7700ft DA, 5-7mph at my pos coming from 4:30. Strelok says 2.98 mils elevation, 0.3 mils wind. I held 0.3-0.4 mils for wind, and my group was .1 mil high.
    duah_zps7439032b.jpg


    772yd: 7800ft DA, Wind was switching speed and dir. didn't calculate it. Strelok says 5.4 mils elevation. I used it and all hits (misses were windage only) were dead center for elevation.

    1055yd: 8750ft DA, Did not calc. wind, Strelok says 9.0 mils. Again, I had horizontal stringing from sucking at wind reading, but elevation was sub 1/2MOA spot on

    1229yd: 8500ft DA, no wind calc., Strelok says 11.6 mils. My target was a .4-.5 mil wide rock, and tagged it several times, all impacts that I could see were directly on line for elevation.

    I went home and tried to use Litz's G7 BC of .299 in JBM and can't quite get it to match. My best match was to drop the BC to something like .295 with 2715fps. I made a dope chart via JBM every 25yd (beyond 700) every 1000ft DA.

    Day 2:

    730yd: 6500ft DA, dope chart says 725yd 5.0 mils, 750yd 5.2mils 25/2= 12.5 yd per 0.1mil, I just kept 5.0. 4/5 shots hit a touch left of center and .1 mil high.
    563yd: 6900ft DA, dope chart says 3.3 mils, dead center.

    I've got a bunch of stuff going on the next 2-3 weeks (including Lasik), so we'll see how much more I can add to this. I'll also pay more attention to what the software says to windage.
     
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