Testing loads - Am I doing it wrong?

[Jayjay1]

Hello guys,
finding "the right bullet" for a new rifle.

I´m buying 3 or 4 bullets which fullfill my needs, and then I´m loading and testing them side by side.
That means I shoot 4-round groups with every bullet, one after the other, waiting around 1 minute to let the barrel cool down a bit after every shot.

Do you think that "mixing" the bullets is a bad thing, because of the different materials in the bullet jackets?
Will it cause worse precision and would it be better, to test only one bullet in a row, when finished clean the barrel, and than testing the next bullet?

 

[vh20]

I would not do it that way. I have seen fouling conditions affect impact point of a new bullet when fired from a barrel previously fouled with a different bullet.

 

[Maurygold]

Just buy Berger hybrid in your caliber and call it a day. You don’t need to test bullets

 

[OREGUN]

That seems like a lot of wasted components and time. Just pick a bullet, buy 100, do whatever load development you do and if you have a decent barrel and are using reasonably good reloading techniques, it will work. Doing small samples size tests side by side is likely not showing you anything anyways.

 

[Tugboater]

For me my brain doesn’t work that way. There is just too much going on there to stay focused on one thing. I research the bullet I’m wanting to load, then get after it. Unless the bullet I choose is obviously not going to work,, I don’t normally switch. I may try something later down the road that I want to tinker with, but would never try a bunch of different bullets at the same time.

 

[vh20]

Just buy Berger hybrid in your caliber and call it a day. You don’t need to test bullets

That’s a better answer than mine, and actually what I do as well. I load for only 3 cartridges. In each case I just picked a Berger and ran it: 300PRC (230gr), 300 Norma (245gr), and 338 Norma (300gr). My comment above about differences in impact from a barrel previously fouled with a different bullet comes mostly from when I might shoot some factory ammo occasionally and switch back to my loads. The first round with the new bullet (going either way) will usually impact somewhere a little off from the next rounds of the same bullet (usually low in my case).

 

[3rdfocal]

I gotta keep it simple when doing load development. I pick the bullet and powder I want to shoot, measure chamber and seat the bullet .010 off the lands (or max mag length if I can't reach the lands). Then shoot a ladder over a chrono, 3-5 round groups at increasing charge weights, usually in .3 grain increments (starting safe and moving up through where I expect to see too much pressure), usually around 10-15 total groups. I'm watching for a velocity node, group size, and pressure when doing this. I always find a velocity node or 2 when doing this, typically I will also see group size open and tighten as charge weight changes. I'd bet that 90% of the time, I find a load that I'm happy with at this point. If not, I'll generally go with the best velocity node and test powder charges around that velocity again. If I need to, once I've determined the best powder charge, I'll do a seating depth test and shoot groups working away from the lands in .010 increments. I rarely end up doing seating depth tests though. Not a great method if you're trying to shoot BR records, but finding a 1/2" load isn't very difficult with the quality of rifles and components we have and this quick method gets me there reliably. I will play with a load after I've been shooting it for a little while and am confident in what to expect, I'll load a few rounds to shoot a seating depth test or test charge weights around my node to see if I'm leaving something easy on the table.

With a good bullet, brass, and barrel, it should not be hard to find a load. A good barrel will seem like it just wants to shoot everything well. Research pays off when deciding what caliber/bullet/powder to go with, there are so many good "known loads" that we really don't need to go reinventing the wheel. I would only recommend changing and testing 1 thing at a time. I'd get confused if shooting different bullets at the same time.

 

[Rocketmandb]

In each case I just picked a Berger and ran it:

Exactly this. Trying to load dev against multiple bullets at the same time is an exercise in futility. If you really want to try multiple bullets, then pick one first, find the best load you can with it, then do the same thing with the next bullet. Compare them and you're done.

 

[Aftermath]

^^^This is the way.

Choose a bullet and do all of the load development necessary to create the most bestest shooting combination that you can. Write that shit down.

Choose your next bullet you think you want to shoot and do the same thing. Do all of the load development necessary to create the most bestest shooting combination that you can. Write that shit down.

Repeat all you care to.

Then, look at all of the data and decide which is working best for your rifle.

Or...just do like a bunch of us do...choose the heavy for caliber Berger you want to shoot, develop that one and don't look back.

 

[Rocketmandb]

Or...just do like a bunch of us do...choose the heavy for caliber Berger you want to shoot, develop that one and don't look back.

When I get a new barrel for my ELR rifles, I buy that barrel's full complement of bullets at the same time. I base the bullet on whatever is available. For my 300 PRC, as an example, in my last barrel I used 230 hybrids (non-OTM). As those became unobtanium, and my supply ran low, I decided to make the switch to 220s for my current barrel. Before I fired my first one, I had 1750 on the shelf - and I'd never fired one before. It's one of the reasons I exclusively use Berger when possible.: you know any of em will work.

 

[375fan]

Over the years I came up with my own system so to speak. What's my objective with rifle/cartridge? Target/hunting? Determine caliber/cartridge and what bullet. Then pick barrel twist and length. Basically building around the bullet. My 300PRC and 338LM which SAC put together for me. They asked what bullets I planned on using in each and cut throats for the bullets I planned to use and my CIP length mags.

 

[C130]

Just buy Berger hybrid in your caliber and call it a day. You don’t need to test bullets

I'm new to reloading and that's exactly what I did. Bought 100 of the 140g 6.5 Berger target hybrid's and liked them and bought a 1000 more. I've tried different seating depths and powder amounts and they all shoot great. Only real difference I have seen is my SD's increased some as I increased the powder charge but groupings are just as good even with the increased SD's.

 

[375fan]

Hybrids are very forgiving when it comes to seating depth/jump.

 

[C130]

Hybrids are very forgiving when it comes to seating depth/jump.

What are their disadvantages? I haven’t really seen any that I know of but assume there’s got to be something.

 

[alamo5000]

Hello guys,
finding "the right bullet" for a new rifle.

I´m buying 3 or 4 bullets which fullfill my needs, and then I´m loading and testing them side by side.
That means I shoot 4-round groups with every bullet, one after the other, waiting around 1 minute to let the barrel cool down a bit after every shot.

Do you think that "mixing" the bullets is a bad thing, because of the different materials in the bullet jackets?
Will it cause worse precision and would it be better, to test only one bullet in a row, when finished clean the barrel, and than testing the next bullet?

I don't think you should round robin bullets. You need to test one at a time and record the results. Testing 4 bullets in one sitting in the same rifle would be a nightmare.

If you are shooting a known good load using known good bullets, then you swap to another bullet... If you go back to the first one without cleaning and all that it will generally speaking not shoot as good for the first few rounds if not more than that.

 

[375fan]

What are their disadvantages? I haven’t really seen any that I know of but assume there’s got to be something.

No disadvantages that I know of, other than costing more than other brands, but I and many others over look that.
Perfomance is what matters and sometimes it cost a little more.

 

[LA260]

I bought 3K 109 Hybrids before my barrel was even ready. No regrets. Get Bergers.

 

[Jayjay1]

Well, I started the thread to see if I´m doing it wrong and that seems to be the case (for over 10 years now).


But putting that aside, I had no clue that you guys all, or most of you like it seems, use Bergers such a lot.

So, as the thread got this turn, it´s like a new topic which is fine to me.
Let´s start this over.

"Which Berger bullet should I use?"

For
- hunting
- mainly small game like deer and small predators (fox, badgers), a boar up to max. 200 pounds rather rare.
- in a .270 Win magazine fed rifle
- on max. distances up to 300yds.

I will try them out for sure.

 

[CK1.0]

It's not about the bullet. The sample size you are/were using is just too small to tell shit, and complicating things further by mixing different ingredients (bullets) just makes things even more cloudy.

I'm one of those guys who buys enough bullets to burn out a barrel when I buy the barrel, and after having burned out barrels with pricier A-Tips/Bergers, and also with more blue-collar Match Burners/Hornady BTHPs, if one can have bulk bullets from the same lot (consistent ingredients), one can get anything to shoot.

Buy Bergers if you think that's the problem (in my USPSA days, we used to say "buy as much skill as you can" lol), but chances are if you buy a box of 500 of anything decent and stick with them, you'll figure them out. But you'll need to load/shoot more like ~30 of each to have a chance at seeing anything remotely statistically valid.

 

[Simonsza1]

Well, I started the thread to see if I´m doing it wrong and that seems to be the case (for over 10 years now).


But putting that aside, I had no clue that you guys all, or most of you like it seems, use Bergers such a lot.

So, as the thread got this turn, it´s like a new topic which is fine to me.
Let´s start this over.

"Which Berger bullet should I use?"

For
- hunting
- mainly small game like deer and small predators (fox, badgers), a boar up to max. 200 pounds rather rare.
- in a .270 Win magazine fed rifle
- on max. distances up to 300yds.

I will try them out for sure.

Do not use bergers for hunting! I swear by bergers as the best bullet but not for hunting. I know there will be several who tell me I’m wrong and that’s fine. I’m very close with some of the best outfitters in the country and they all cringe when clients show up using bergers. One friend is one of the best known guides in Alaska and is to the point of asking clients not to show up with bergers. It is so critical with bergers to have there impact velocity perfect to work on game and also if they hit some bone or not. For a 270 roll with the eldx if you just want a bullet to work great on all game. I shoot nothing but bergers in all my competitive rifles cause they are simply the best however with the knowledge gained from many who know the facts I will never use bergers on game. I’ve written about this several times on here already and several agree with me from past experiences but of course a bullet has killed for others and yes they disagree. Bergers are bad ass bullets but just not for hunting imo.

 

[03machstock]

What would you guys do if the Berger hybrids don’t shoot in your barrel? Just mark it up as a bad barrel or keep trying different bullets?

 

[Simonsza1]

What would you guys do if the Berger hybrids don’t shoot in your barrel? Just mark it up as a bad barrel or keep trying different bullets?

Try jumping it way more than you probably have. .120 is a good place to start. If it doesn’t shoot there then there is something wrong. Hybrids love to jump.

 

[supercorndogs]

What would you guys do if the Berger hybrids don’t shoot in your barrel? Just mark it up as a bad barrel or keep trying different bullets?

When a bullet doesn't shoot in particular barrel. I try a diffrent bullet. Some barrel and bullet combos don't get along for some reason.

I have loaded 10 each of 5 diffrent 175-180g bullet over the same charge of powder and shot them for groups. My 308 seems to shoot most any bullet exept for the 155Nosler CC.

 

[Maurygold]

What would you guys do if the Berger hybrids don’t shoot in your barrel? Just mark it up as a bad barrel or keep trying different bullets?

If you’re not using lapua, alpha or adg brass switch to those. If you’re not using a cci 400/450 for small or fed 215/215m for large switch to those. If you’re not using varget/ h4350/ h1000 or n570 switch to the appropriate one. If you’re using all those and still cant group - bad barrel/ chamber. (This assumes an established and reliable reloading methodology)

According to Berger and experience the hybrid like 30-40 thou jump. Dont attempt to jam or float the bullet near lands

 

[Maurygold]

Do not use bergers for hunting! I swear by bergers as the best bullet but not for hunting. I know there will be several who tell me I’m wrong and that’s fine. I’m very close with some of the best outfitters in the country and they all cringe when clients show up using bergers. One friend is one of the best known guides in Alaska and is to the point of asking clients not to show up with bergers. It is so critical with bergers to have there impact velocity perfect to work on game and also if they hit some bone or not. For a 270 roll with the eldx if you just want a bullet to work great on all game. I shoot nothing but bergers in all my competitive rifles cause they are simply the best however with the knowledge gained from many who know the facts I will never use bergers on game. I’ve written about this several times on here already and several agree with me from past experiences but of course a bullet has killed for others and yes they disagree. Bergers are bad ass bullets but just not for hunting imo.

I’ve taken a dozen animals with the 215 hybrid. It’s by far the best hunting bullet I’ve ever shot. Can’t speak to the other calibers using hybrid

 

[supercorndogs]

I have shot thousands of animals with the 55 vmax. Doesn't mean I would take them to hunt moose in Alaska. Context is important.

 

[Maurygold]

I have shot thousands of animals with the 55 vmax. Doesn't mean I would take them to hunt moose in Alaska. Context is important.

Well I’m not squirrel hunting with a 30 cal 215. I’d shoot any large game with it

 

[supercorndogs]

Well I’m not squirrel hunting with a 30 cal 215. I’d shoot any large game with it

We know you would. You already said that. The question becomes is it a good idea, and that depends.