- Thread starter tomcatmv
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its becoming clearer and clearer who in this thread knows what they are talking about.
Hell, I completely overlooked adding this, sorry about that as it might explain my reaction more clearly.
These scumbags have created a situation where homeowners, the ones paying attention at least, are investing in their own power supplies far exceeding a generator "for da deepfreeze."
I'm sure you see it too. Folks are preparing, planning whatever, for a tired weakened grid to die or sputter.
The United States.
That amazes me tbh.
And these shitbags are pushing along with the corporations, media, politicians etc. To finish killing our decades of cheap reliable power.
One of the biggest factors that helped the greatest generation build the infrastructure we all take for granted.
Also allowed our society to expand and benefit from that cheap and reliable power.
Okay, I'm done now, but I felt like I owed you a more in depth explanation there.
Peace
It's hard to explain just how embarrassing this is. Sad time to be a native Texan.
One situation that exacerbates the ability of generation to handle frequency excursions caused by sudden loss of generation is system inertia. Each generator is tested for inertia and it’s capability to respond to sudden changes in frequency. That information is used by companies and system operators like MISO for modeling. If you have a dip in frequency your solar has zero ability to correct for it, neither does wind, the fair haired golden boy combustion turbines actually have a negative effect in response. This leaves all the response to the rotating heavy mass machines of nuclear and conventional steam turbines. As you can see one side is increasing and the other is diminishing with each passing year. Just day to day load following is getting harder to do. Peak times are in the morning when everybody is getting ready to go to work and in the evening when everybody gets home starts cooking taking showers turning on the air conditioner, those two times of the day are the worst for wind and solar causing conventional units to ramp up in the morning for load and then as solar and wind come online conventional units are backed down to allow wind and solar.
When my 93 yo Dad moved in with us we installed 15KW solar and 18 KW automatic generator.
Snowmageddon proved we can’t easily move him, so it was a good (but pricey) choice for us.
There were power outages in the winter and it’s happening now. Just google it.
Tell me where it's happening now. I'm interested.
I know about the winter freeze outage. And I know why it happened.
Google my son, bing works too.
So it’s news to me that most electricity generation is from steam. Guess I never thought about what method was used to actually turn the turbine.
So me, who knows less than John Snow, asks, why do we not utilize the very hot inner layers of earth to generate steam? Yes I know you have to drill a lot of miles to get hot enough, people are smart, figure it out.
or better yet, use areas with volcanic activity/magma pockets close to the surface to do it also. Sounds like an indefinite heat source that never turns off.
or maybe the libs will start screaming about stopping deep earth cooling, and how if we change the temp of the center of the earth by .000001 degrees we will all die, the Africa dung beetle will perish, and the sea levels will
Rise and tsunami will take out Manhattan
So me, who knows less than John Snow, asks, why do we not utilize the very hot inner layers of earth to generate steam? Yes I know you have to drill a lot of miles to get hot enough, people are smart, figure it out.
or better yet, use areas with volcanic activity/magma pockets close to the surface to do it also. Sounds like an indefinite heat source that never turns off.
or maybe the libs will start screaming about stopping deep earth cooling, and how if we change the temp of the center of the earth by .000001 degrees we will all die, the Africa dung beetle will perish, and the sea levels will
Rise and tsunami will take out Manhattan
15kw and 20% capacity factor what could be better! I have 2 7.6kw inverters, I am about to add another ~2kw of panels to increase my capacity some. I did not do battery backup, not cost effective. I could have bought a new top of the line diesel and a bunch of diesel for what the batteries cost. I already have a good kubota diesel for if it goes out. My inverter arrangement can disconnect me from the grid and use the solar and diesel to power the house15 kW, what a fucking joke.
Each of our units puts out well over 600 MW.
They're putting them up all over my area too. On good farmland no less.
3550 psi
1050 deg steam.
600MW that's cute, were 2x1250
Yep major solar farms on good dirt around here also.
FUCK supercritical steam.
Probably. The way I see it from my perspective is that part of this problem is politically-driven (replace bad coal and nuclear with good renewables), and part of it is economic (we're riding a long period of relatively low investment in the distribution grid because high profits and low prices now were more important than reliability later). I mean, it's not like the average American is sitting back and saying "ya know, this whole electricity concept is pretty important and maybe I'd be willing to pay a few cents per kilowatt-hour to ensure that it's always there when I need it". Nope, it's more like "dammit, make my bill cheaper so I can set the thermostat at 65F in July so I don't get a heat rash in my fat folds".
These things won't get fixed overnight. They won't even start to get fixed until we get past the point of pointing at Texas and California and laughing "haha conservative/liberal state too stupid to figure out electricity durr", and that's going to take regional or national grid failures.
External forces might accelerate this come-to-Jesus moment. A solid cyberattack or solar flare would do the trick. Just the weather might do it; as I understand the February event, the Eastern chunk of the US grid was already at its limit due to the same weather system that took out the Texas grid.
Fun times ahead. I'd like to say "fuck you guys, I've got a whole-house generator and will take care of myself just fine", but my dumbass governor keeps playing fuck-fuck games with the regional pipeline operator, and that's the sort of stupidity that might leave me with an empty propane pig in the middle of winter. So I'm unfortunately once again stuck with all the other assholes who'd rather spend an extra $40/month on some streaming subscription than on ensuring that the local power company can afford to establish reasonable standby capacity or even properly trim back trees from the lines so that a simple ice storm doesn't knock out power for a week.
Bunch of dumb fucks.
Wait until the entire country gets a heat wave this summer.
And then next summer, adding in the retired plants.
And the next summer, with more units offline.
This cuntry ain't seen nuthin' yet.
By the time it comes to a head, there's no turning back.
Vote Democrat, early and often
...and everyone drives an EV.
I researched attic fans when we bought our current house. Supposedly, the better the house is sealed, the less effective the fan.
You didn't read all the words.
I said EACH of our units exceed 600.
We have 5, they top out at 687mw. And if you do actually understand the grid, rather than try and have a dick measuring contest...the reason they stopped building those big units is because of the size of the dip when a unit trips or comes offline for unscheduled outage.
I can't imagine the hair pulling MISO does when you guys come on or off, scheduled OR unsceduled today
.I'm guessing you guys are burning PRB coal? IF so hows that trash look at night with NVGS ?
Supercritical is the most efficient steam pass method , saving fuel and being better for consumers. It also is damn dangerous
But thanks for playing
.Pretty sure I know your retirement date btw
Our first unit is coming up in a couple of years, although I really think it'll be accelerated and our plant will be retired much sooner than advertised. I'll definately NOT retire there.
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My idea of an attic fan is actually a reversible fan with ductwork to every room. Serves as an exhaust fan during the day when it's hot and reverses to a supply fan as the temp falls through the night and early morning. Might be a system of fans to be as effective as possible.
You have to open the windows tho.
It's superheated steam.....not supercritical.You didn't read all the words.
I said EACH of our units exceed 600.
We have 5, they top out at 687mw. And if you do actually understand the grid, rather than try and have a dick measuring contest...the reason they stopped building those big units is because of the size of the dip when a unit trips or comes offline for unscheduled outage.
I can't imagine the hair pulling MISO does when you guys come on or off, scheduled OR unsceduled today
I'm guessing you guys are burning PRB coal? IF so hows that trash look at night with NVGS ?
Supercritical is the most efficient steam pass method , saving fuel and being better for consumers. It also is damn dangerous
But thanks for playing
Pretty sure I know your retirement date btw
Our first unit is coming up in a couple of years, although I really think it'll be accelerated and our plant will be retired much sooner than advertised. I'll definately NOT retire there.
No dick measuring contest here all the plants are doing there part every MW counts. Location, fuel diversity, ability to sectionalize the grid. It all plays in.You didn't read all the words.
I said EACH of our units exceed 600.
We have 5, they top out at 687mw. And if you do actually understand the grid, rather than try and have a dick measuring contest...the reason they stopped building those big units is because of the size of the dip when a unit trips or comes offline for unscheduled outage.
I can't imagine the hair pulling MISO does when you guys come on or off, scheduled OR unsceduled today
I'm guessing you guys are burning PRB coal? IF so hows that trash look at night with NVGS ?
Supercritical is the most efficient steam pass method , saving fuel and being better for consumers. It also is damn dangerous
But thanks for playing
Pretty sure I know your retirement date btw
Our first unit is coming up in a couple of years, although I really think it'll be accelerated and our plant will be retired much sooner than advertised. I'll definately NOT retire there.
No coal here, just smashing atoms. That's the reason MISO does not have control. But we have a capacity factor of 99%
Simple thermodynamics higher the pressure the higher the temp. Higher the Delta T the more efficient. Building a primary and secondary system for 2400 psi primary and 1200 psi secondary is expensive enough. One of our old thermal NG plants in the fleet that was demoed a few years back was a 3600 psi plant.
Above 3200psi is supercritical.
Supercritical Boilers
B&W's supercritical and ultra-supercritical boiler designs offer the flexibility and reliability to meet the most demanding steam generation needs.
www.babcock.com All steam going through the turbine will be superheated. If it's not the steam quality sucks and will rapidly degrade steam components. We typically run with 10-15 degrees of super heat. About 1060 psi and 575 degrees.
Ah I see, all my experience with steam is naval so that's an area of the phase diagram I never worried about.Above 3200psi is supercritical.
Supercritical Boilers
B&W's supercritical and ultra-supercritical boiler designs offer the flexibility and reliability to meet the most demanding steam generation needs.
All steam going through the turbine will be superheated. If it's not the steam quality sucks and will rapidly degrade steam components. We typically run with 10-15 degrees of super heat. About 1060 psi and 575 degrees.
Neat shit, sounds dangerous.
Since you work in a nuke, I'm assuming you generate saturated steam and run it through a separate superheater outside of the steam generators?
Navy nukes are zero superheat. The steam system is designed to deal with it.
The steam side of the plant is my weak side, as I'm an electrical/control engineer. It all happens in our steam generators, there are multiple sections of the SG where the steam starts to where it leaves. There are separators and reheat regions in the top of the SG. I don't like 1100 psi steam let alone 3200+
Yes, the tenth floor of our plant is the scariest. Good chance we work for the same outfit..
Supercritical is a fantastic boiler design, as long as it's maintained and the board operations keep it away from excursions, the tubes handle it fine.
I've seen the main steam headers during outage, serious piece of steel there.
It's good for you guys you're nuke, at least you'll have a job for a long time, we're screwed.
Sadly you guys and us both lost the propaganda war, and we're currently bleeding out.
Besides, because of the regs with your side of the industry, the company can only cut so many corners. They flat slash ours. Other than a hydrogen, chlorine, ammonia and main steam rupture, we just hear the safeties lift and pick up the pieces.
I really like ng and Cc plants, , but I'll never work at either.
When this thing comes off for good, I'm going to spend the rest of my working years doing whatever.
The years of 12 hr shifts and swinging half of them and running around like a 25 yr old have taken a toll.
It's about time for a relaxed job. And honestly I can't wait.
I already said I didn't know because it's a section of the phase diagram that I never had to worry about.
Not all steam plants work in the same region.
Gotcha. I'm sure there has to be an injection of heat at a temperature > saturation into the superheater. I bet it's some kind of oil or NG burner. Steam can't be used to superheat itself.
Some places that have easy access to such things have done geo-thermal energy, but generally for most of the world it's not a cost effective option by any means.
In modern AC houses, a powerful attic fan can still be very useful.
Assuming the attic is not specifically cooled or heated, you have vents in the eves all along the house and then the attic fan draws outside air through the attic to keep the inside of the attic from getting much hotter than the outside air, which helps keep the house cooler as you don't wind up with this huge heat load in the attic where your air handler normally is.
One of the largest challenges with geo them is it eats EVERYTHING! I have a cousin that used to work in geotherm on the west coast. The sulfur, acids, just destroy even high grade stainless steel. I went into there switchgear room after the place had only been running like 6 months, all the copper was black, a few years later they had to move the switchyard tie in as every few months enough insulator contamination they could not keep running. That plant only lasted like 2 years.
Selectively opening windows works wonderfully with an attic fan. Our house was built with one (A/C not being terribly common in the Midwest during the early 60s). On cool evenings, it's wonderful to open windows in the bedrooms to cool them off before going to sleep. In cool mornings, we run it with the windows open in the common areas, and then close up the house during the middle of the day.
During normal summers in this area, we can keep our AC use down to maybe 8-10 days per summer. Down south, I don't know that it would have any value in the summer months, but it seems potentially useful in the off-season.
It all depends on brine chemistry, I spin magnets at a geo plant that's 10 years old and we don't see any of those issues.
Unlike here where at 4am it's 85 degrees outside and 94% humidity....
Yeah the area around the Great Lakes can be liveable without AC if you have good forced ventilation for most of spring, summer, and autum.
It was 58 degrees at 7 AM here today in SW OH.
I was joking maybe if I add in a
that would be better?Hell, I even used a china joe phrase, I like it. It seems to work on the world stage too.
We get both hot humid and cold and wet seasonally.
We've developed perennial crops of all types, plant open pollination as they say today, in our garden. Water will never be an issue and good terrain.
The boonies ain't bad as long as your not a dumbass or lazy. As I stated earlier I'd take 1850's any day.
The gene pool would benefit as would our society. The first year or so would be the easiest, after that it would be much tougher.
Talking more Carrington here.
Yes, shooting long range here requires cutting through nearly saturated air.
Trace is pretty easy though.
Here's the temperature data from my Garmin during yesterday early-morning bike ride:
Upon hitting 25 MPH on the downhill just past my house, I started wishing for something more than a short-sleeved jersey.
I'm sure it will be back to 90F and humid soon enough. Meanwhile, I'm going to enjoy kicking on the attic fan each evening and pulling through as much of that 55F air as possible.
I should note the importance of proper window screens. If the house lights are on and there is 4500 CFM of air getting dragged through the windows, various small flying insects will declare their presence.
First recorded turbo?
Well you moved 2 million shitbags from Cali and New York to Texas and did ZERO infrastructure improvements, you should have problems. Solar sucks 12 hours a day and the wind does not blow when the temps are highest or lowest. Damn that,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,science.
If you think windmills will replace something, remember they literally average about 12% capacity over the course of a year. Australia spent 17 billion AUS dollars on a giant wind farm that averages 4% of capacity, so there 600 MW or whatever it was rated at generates 24 MW.
The best part is when they add 5,000,000 electric cars and trucks to the demand. This shit show is going to get a lot worse. Thank God we elected a mental retard for President. If he was only as interested in this problem as he was in 12y/o girls.
If you think windmills will replace something, remember they literally average about 12% capacity over the course of a year. Australia spent 17 billion AUS dollars on a giant wind farm that averages 4% of capacity, so there 600 MW or whatever it was rated at generates 24 MW.
The best part is when they add 5,000,000 electric cars and trucks to the demand. This shit show is going to get a lot worse. Thank God we elected a mental retard for President. If he was only as interested in this problem as he was in 12y/o girls.
Nothing says independence like trusting your survival to government run grids. Like NY but with shitty BBQ and replacing god cuomo with the Bible
No one thinks that windmills will replace anything to do with the electrical infrastructure in the United States.
Wind turbine:
Windmill:
I don't know what the capacity factor of a windmill is, but the newer wind turbines being installed have a capacity factor a fair bit higher than 12%. I don't know where you obtained that figure from, but the newer models being installed are coming in well above the 40% mark depending on location.
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