Re: The $24,000 question.
"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to do nothing." - Thomas Jefferson
"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to do nothing." - Thomas Jefferson
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Re: The $24,000 question.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Goatphius</div><div class="ubbcode-body">a-hull your view of American gov't is more reminiscent of Marxism or a dictatorship. The only reason the gov't has the right to eminent domain is because it was laid out in our Bill of Rights they didn't just decide it was a good idea after the fact; it is in fact constitutional (see 5th Amendment).
The original question was not paranoia it was a hypothetical, albeit extreme. But if we do not ponder on extreme possibilities how are we going to know how to act if said events take place? Prior planning prevents poor performance. No "true" American would want to kill his fellow American, but where do you draw the line when a tyrannical government becomes unamerican? I would say when the government is openly defacing the Constitution, and at that point you have to decide; am I going to sit by and let this happen or am I going to stand up and fight what's happening.
"The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." - Thomas Jefferson
Here are the first 10 Amendments laid out by the Bill of Rights:
- First Amendment – Establishment Clause, Free Exercise Clause; freedom of speech, of the press, and of assembly; right to petition
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
- Second Amendment – Militia (United States), Sovereign state, Right to keep and bear arms.
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.[57]
- Third Amendment – Protection from quartering of troops.
No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.
- Fourth Amendment – Protection from unreasonable search and seizure.
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
- Fifth Amendment – due process, double jeopardy, self-incrimination, eminent domain.
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
- Sixth Amendment – Trial by jury and rights of the accused; Confrontation Clause, speedy trial, public trial, right to counsel
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.
- Seventh Amendment – Civil trial by jury.
In suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise re-examined in any court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.
- Eighth Amendment – Prohibition of excessive bail and cruel and unusual punishment.
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.
- Ninth Amendment – Protection of rights not specifically enumerated in the Constitution.
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.
- Tenth Amendment – Powers of States and people.
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
</div></div>
Well presented, Goat, and thanks for gettig the gist of my question...extreme, yes, but necessary for us to consider in the event.....Take a look at the 3rd.
- Third Amendment – Protection from quartering of troops.
No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, <span style="color: #CC0000"> but in a manner to be prescribed by law. </span>
So if the law says I have to quarter a troop, perhaps even for a conflict I am adamantly opposed to, guess what?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Goatphius</div><div class="ubbcode-body">a-hull your view of American gov't is more reminiscent of Marxism or a dictatorship. The only reason the gov't has the right to eminent domain is because it was laid out in our Bill of Rights they didn't just decide it was a good idea after the fact; it is in fact constitutional (see 5th Amendment).
The original question was not paranoia it was a hypothetical, albeit extreme. But if we do not ponder on extreme possibilities how are we going to know how to act if said events take place? Prior planning prevents poor performance. No "true" American would want to kill his fellow American, but where do you draw the line when a tyrannical government becomes unamerican? I would say when the government is openly defacing the Constitution, and at that point you have to decide; am I going to sit by and let this happen or am I going to stand up and fight what's happening.
"The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." - Thomas Jefferson
Here are the first 10 Amendments laid out by the Bill of Rights:
- First Amendment – Establishment Clause, Free Exercise Clause; freedom of speech, of the press, and of assembly; right to petition
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
- Second Amendment – Militia (United States), Sovereign state, Right to keep and bear arms.
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.[57]
- Third Amendment – Protection from quartering of troops.
No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.
- Fourth Amendment – Protection from unreasonable search and seizure.
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
- Fifth Amendment – due process, double jeopardy, self-incrimination, eminent domain.
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
- Sixth Amendment – Trial by jury and rights of the accused; Confrontation Clause, speedy trial, public trial, right to counsel
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.
- Seventh Amendment – Civil trial by jury.
In suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise re-examined in any court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.
- Eighth Amendment – Prohibition of excessive bail and cruel and unusual punishment.
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.
- Ninth Amendment – Protection of rights not specifically enumerated in the Constitution.
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.
- Tenth Amendment – Powers of States and people.
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
</div></div>
Well presented, Goat, and thanks for gettig the gist of my question...extreme, yes, but necessary for us to consider in the event.....Take a look at the 3rd.
- Third Amendment – Protection from quartering of troops.
No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, <span style="color: #CC0000"> but in a manner to be prescribed by law. </span>
So if the law says I have to quarter a troop, perhaps even for a conflict I am adamantly opposed to, guess what?
Re: The $24,000 question.
Steal or confiscate? Sorry, I know it's dumb but to me it's the difference between "clip" and "magazine". They would confiscate our weapons not steal. When you steal something it's against the law, when you confiscate it's a legal action. If they take our weapons it would be under some sort of law banning firearms.
con·fis·cate
1.take something away: to take somebody's property with authority, or appropriate property for personal use as if with authority
2.take something as legal penalty: to seize property legally forfeited to the public treasury as a penalty
3.taken by authority: taken legally, or forfeited
steal
[ steel ]
1.take something unlawfully: to take something that belongs to somebody else, illegally or without the owner's permission
2.take something furtively: to take or get something secretly, surreptitiously, or through trickery
Steal or confiscate? Sorry, I know it's dumb but to me it's the difference between "clip" and "magazine". They would confiscate our weapons not steal. When you steal something it's against the law, when you confiscate it's a legal action. If they take our weapons it would be under some sort of law banning firearms.
con·fis·cate
1.take something away: to take somebody's property with authority, or appropriate property for personal use as if with authority
2.take something as legal penalty: to seize property legally forfeited to the public treasury as a penalty
3.taken by authority: taken legally, or forfeited
steal
[ steel ]
1.take something unlawfully: to take something that belongs to somebody else, illegally or without the owner's permission
2.take something furtively: to take or get something secretly, surreptitiously, or through trickery
Re: The $24,000 question.
Don't think I should make a comment on this thread !
Don't think I should make a comment on this thread !
Re: The $24,000 question.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: a-hull</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This, I think, is lame. I would never shoot anyone, especially police or military who come and demand my stuff. The truth to me is, life is worth more than any object I possess. Easy come easy go. THIS IS ONLY MY OPINION. I say take it and move on. Its is a whole different story if a person clearly intends harm to my family. But over stuff, I personally would not.
If My neighbor 9 doors down said soldiers or cops were coming to get my guns.....all one of them.... I would have it ready to go for them when they knocked on the door. (cleaned and oiled) </div></div>
I am coming to take your stuff then, you better get to cleaning them.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: a-hull</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This, I think, is lame. I would never shoot anyone, especially police or military who come and demand my stuff. The truth to me is, life is worth more than any object I possess. Easy come easy go. THIS IS ONLY MY OPINION. I say take it and move on. Its is a whole different story if a person clearly intends harm to my family. But over stuff, I personally would not.
If My neighbor 9 doors down said soldiers or cops were coming to get my guns.....all one of them.... I would have it ready to go for them when they knocked on the door. (cleaned and oiled) </div></div>
I am coming to take your stuff then, you better get to cleaning them.
Re: The $24,000 question.
I would cut my guns up with a torch before surrendering them. Maybe alter them in some way that if someone tried to use them... kaboom not bang... Bad heat treat or something...
Dont worry im kidding... I would actually pile the guns up in the front yard, not wanting to waist their time... then id detonate the potassium chlorate / petroleum jelly mixture that was under those guns...
Just kidding... Id have a shootout...
Just kidding... My guns aren't registered anyway!!!
Oh actually i dont have any guns... They sunk to the bottom of the ocean when they fell off my boat... I like to fish... Cant remember where i was exactly...
I would cut my guns up with a torch before surrendering them. Maybe alter them in some way that if someone tried to use them... kaboom not bang... Bad heat treat or something...
Dont worry im kidding... I would actually pile the guns up in the front yard, not wanting to waist their time... then id detonate the potassium chlorate / petroleum jelly mixture that was under those guns...
Just kidding... Id have a shootout...
Just kidding... My guns aren't registered anyway!!!
Oh actually i dont have any guns... They sunk to the bottom of the ocean when they fell off my boat... I like to fish... Cant remember where i was exactly...
Re: The $24,000 question.
a-hull, the American education system has failed you greatly. Please take bliss in your ignorance, get a vasectomy, and take a vow of silence. It will be the greatest contribution you could ever make to your country.
a-hull, the American education system has failed you greatly. Please take bliss in your ignorance, get a vasectomy, and take a vow of silence. It will be the greatest contribution you could ever make to your country.
Re: The $24,000 question.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: athhud</div><div class="ubbcode-body">a-hull, the American education system has failed you greatly. Please take bliss in your ignorance, get a vasectomy, and take a vow of silence. It will be the greatest contribution you could ever make to your country. </div></div>
Ignorance has as much bliss as the fanatsy people have about fighting back, and shooting american soldiers and law enforcement for taking thier guns. It is a complete waste of time to think about. But hey if people want to stroke themselves while day dreaming about the reveloution, go nuts. The fact is the government today is far more powerful then it has ever been.
Back with the constitution was written the govenment had the same weapons as the people, fair fight. Now they are far more powerful in influence and weapons.
So if they wanted to come and "take away our guns" like some of you paranoid, itchy trigger finger nut jobs think, you can fight back all you want. You will loose. I personally will say "take them."
It is a complete waste of time because it has been talked about for years and for what? There is a shop right around the corner from my house full of rifles.
The education system has done something for me that it hasn't done for you, or any other person who thinks shooting troops would do any good. It gave me common sense.
I hope you have a nice little wet dream tonight as you dream about Charlton Heston.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: athhud</div><div class="ubbcode-body">a-hull, the American education system has failed you greatly. Please take bliss in your ignorance, get a vasectomy, and take a vow of silence. It will be the greatest contribution you could ever make to your country. </div></div>
Ignorance has as much bliss as the fanatsy people have about fighting back, and shooting american soldiers and law enforcement for taking thier guns. It is a complete waste of time to think about. But hey if people want to stroke themselves while day dreaming about the reveloution, go nuts. The fact is the government today is far more powerful then it has ever been.
Back with the constitution was written the govenment had the same weapons as the people, fair fight. Now they are far more powerful in influence and weapons.
So if they wanted to come and "take away our guns" like some of you paranoid, itchy trigger finger nut jobs think, you can fight back all you want. You will loose. I personally will say "take them."
It is a complete waste of time because it has been talked about for years and for what? There is a shop right around the corner from my house full of rifles.
The education system has done something for me that it hasn't done for you, or any other person who thinks shooting troops would do any good. It gave me common sense.
I hope you have a nice little wet dream tonight as you dream about Charlton Heston.
Re: The $24,000 question.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chabrone</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: a-hull</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This, I think, is lame. I would never shoot anyone, especially police or military who come and demand my stuff. The truth to me is, life is worth more than any object I possess. Easy come easy go. THIS IS ONLY MY OPINION. I say take it and move on. Its is a whole different story if a person clearly intends harm to my family. But over stuff, I personally would not.
If My neighbor 9 doors down said soldiers or cops were coming to get my guns.....all one of them.... I would have it ready to go for them when they knocked on the door. (cleaned and oiled) </div></div>
I am coming to take your stuff then, you better get to cleaning them. </div></div>
Bahaaa!!!!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chabrone</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: a-hull</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This, I think, is lame. I would never shoot anyone, especially police or military who come and demand my stuff. The truth to me is, life is worth more than any object I possess. Easy come easy go. THIS IS ONLY MY OPINION. I say take it and move on. Its is a whole different story if a person clearly intends harm to my family. But over stuff, I personally would not.
If My neighbor 9 doors down said soldiers or cops were coming to get my guns.....all one of them.... I would have it ready to go for them when they knocked on the door. (cleaned and oiled) </div></div>
I am coming to take your stuff then, you better get to cleaning them. </div></div>
Bahaaa!!!!
Re: The $24,000 question.
this is what happen to some of the people that had there guns taken away.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBFvkLViL98
and yes some soldiers refused to " confiscate " guns
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HRZfvtYlCY
this is what happen to some of the people that had there guns taken away.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBFvkLViL98
and yes some soldiers refused to " confiscate " guns
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HRZfvtYlCY
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