I have recently become infatuated with .284 bullets. They really seem like they are the cat's meow. I have made the decision that my next build will be a 7mm of some sort, for "tactical" match shooting. I like the 7mm-08 but it doesn't look like I'll be able to get the speeds I want (~2800 fps), I like the 7 rem mag, but don't want to deal with taming the recoil, nor the report of such caliber, so my only logical next choice was the .280 rem. Until someone told me that caliber doesn't do well, or is difficult to be made to do well. This person couldn't tell me why, so that's why I turn to you folks. Can anybody shed some light on this for me please?
Range Report The .280 sucks . . . ?
- Thread starter prodigalson
- Start date
I would go for a .284 if I were you. Shooting the 162 Amaxes and you have a hammer. Plus you could get them to 2950 or so. That would be nasty!
prodigalson said:
Probably because they read it on the internet or heard it in a gun shop somewhere...
There's a number of folks on the Hide that have 280/280AIs; I'm sure they'll chime in soon.
You trying to get 180s up to 2800fps?
The 180s would be nice, but I was planning on buying the 162 amax or 168 bergers. Just figuring that getting the 180's up to 2800 would be tough without a magnum.
I shoot 162gr A-max in my Savage long action 284. I easily get 2975 fps. 22 MOA to 1K with a 200 yd zero
I guess to just simplify things, I can ask this: What caliber (no magnums please) would you recommend to shoot 7mm 162-168 gr projectiles out of a 26" barrel to average 2800 fps? If there is such a caliber.
Seems like most folks with 26" 7-08s run162s at 2800fps give or take 25fps...so a 7-08AI, 284, 280, or 280AI should work.
First off, I LOVE 7mm, but can't ignore the advantage the ~3100fps 6s provide for our game.
The 6s are ~1mrad (not .1) flatter to 1000 than a high BC 7mm @ ~2800-2850, and match the 7 in wind.
Recoil is non existent. No matter how manly you are, less recoil is easier and faster to shoot well.
The 7s and heavy 30s really shine for 1000+ shooting, especially when the bullet has a task to perform downrange. However, tactical matches rarely require shots past 1000, and have no "tasks" to perform out there.
The 6s are ~1mrad (not .1) flatter to 1000 than a high BC 7mm @ ~2800-2850, and match the 7 in wind.
Recoil is non existent. No matter how manly you are, less recoil is easier and faster to shoot well.
The 7s and heavy 30s really shine for 1000+ shooting, especially when the bullet has a task to perform downrange. However, tactical matches rarely require shots past 1000, and have no "tasks" to perform out there.
280 is a good cartridge despite what you heard. 284 Win is good too, but it's best for a long action. An advantage of 284 is that the case has similar body dimension as a magnum round, so it can fit into a 300 Win Mag AICS magazine, but it uses the 30-06/308 bolt face (.473").
People that want a jack of all trades gun that can hold its own in target, long distance, and hunting should find what they want in 7mm chamberings [MENTION=47204]BoilerUP[/MENTION] mentioned. The downside is that sometimes barrels are picky about the bullets you feed them and brass is usually a little harder to find (unless you go with 7mm Rem Mag).
People that want a jack of all trades gun that can hold its own in target, long distance, and hunting should find what they want in 7mm chamberings [MENTION=47204]BoilerUP[/MENTION] mentioned. The downside is that sometimes barrels are picky about the bullets you feed them and brass is usually a little harder to find (unless you go with 7mm Rem Mag).
One of my main hunting rifles is a Remington 700 Mountain rifle in 280 Remington. With the 22" factory barrel I am pushing a 160gr Partition to 2820fps with Reloader 17 and producing 3/4" to 1" 3 shot groups at 100 yards, after that the barrel is pretty hot.....it can only get better with a longer barrel and a better bullet for long range work. I use the rifle as a light weight hunting rifle so inside 300 yards and 1" 100 yard groups with the Partition is good enough for me.
There is also an original 284 Winchester, in a Model 88 Lever action, in the safe. I have never shot anything other than 139gr Hornadys in it. The 284 cartridge is what I would use if I were to build a long range 7mm. Its an impressive like cartridge and on a long action it would really shine.
There is also an original 284 Winchester, in a Model 88 Lever action, in the safe. I have never shot anything other than 139gr Hornadys in it. The 284 cartridge is what I would use if I were to build a long range 7mm. Its an impressive like cartridge and on a long action it would really shine.
^^^THIS^^^ If you are looking for a one gun to do it all type of rig, a 7mm may be what you are after. Your original post said you are looking for a comp gun. If that will be the tasking, a good 6mm would be hard to beat. I chose the 6 Creedmoor myself.
I had a "280" that was a 280 reamer held short by 0.052 to use factory 270 brass necked up. This was not my intention initially but it worked out for the best. Loss of capacity was nil.
I could very comfortably shoot the 180 Berger Hybrid to 2850-2875fps using H4831sc from a 26" tube. The 162 Amax was around 3050 without any trouble.
I built it on a trued up 700 action that used to have a 30-06 barrel on the end. I pushed the chamber to a true 280 and sold the rifle to someone locally a few years ago to fund a build of a 7 WSM sized case onto a custom action, now the new action wears a 300WM barrel and collects dust in my safe because I run the 6.5CM on a short action Bighorn heavily. That's neither here nor there though.
The 280 is a touch more performance than the 284 Winchester with equivalent quality Lapua 30-06 brass available to fireform, easy easy easy Winchester brass that can be necked/formed from 270, or you can buy factory RP 280 brass... I used the 270 Wichester brass option, $45/100 cases and available at Cabelas if I wanted it.
The case was easily capable of 3/8 MOA groups with whatever bullets I shot in it, it hit really hard at 1000yd and was pretty easy to shoot to 1400yd, past that things got very difficult although I strongly suspect it had much more to do with my ability to shoot that far and not the ability of the chambering to deliver a bullet from that distance.
I currently own excellent reamers in 284 Win (long action), 280 Rem, 7/300 WSM (7 BAT) long action.
Any of the above make varying levels of long range performance calibers, doing it over again, I'd probably go with the 280 just for cheap/easy/plentiful brass and easy feeding.
I could very comfortably shoot the 180 Berger Hybrid to 2850-2875fps using H4831sc from a 26" tube. The 162 Amax was around 3050 without any trouble.
I built it on a trued up 700 action that used to have a 30-06 barrel on the end. I pushed the chamber to a true 280 and sold the rifle to someone locally a few years ago to fund a build of a 7 WSM sized case onto a custom action, now the new action wears a 300WM barrel and collects dust in my safe because I run the 6.5CM on a short action Bighorn heavily. That's neither here nor there though.
The 280 is a touch more performance than the 284 Winchester with equivalent quality Lapua 30-06 brass available to fireform, easy easy easy Winchester brass that can be necked/formed from 270, or you can buy factory RP 280 brass... I used the 270 Wichester brass option, $45/100 cases and available at Cabelas if I wanted it.
The case was easily capable of 3/8 MOA groups with whatever bullets I shot in it, it hit really hard at 1000yd and was pretty easy to shoot to 1400yd, past that things got very difficult although I strongly suspect it had much more to do with my ability to shoot that far and not the ability of the chambering to deliver a bullet from that distance.
I currently own excellent reamers in 284 Win (long action), 280 Rem, 7/300 WSM (7 BAT) long action.
Any of the above make varying levels of long range performance calibers, doing it over again, I'd probably go with the 280 just for cheap/easy/plentiful brass and easy feeding.
the 7 sac or 7 creedmoor will do 2800 or better pushing the 162amax fwiw.
My experience with the .280 Rem and it's Improved cousin the .280 AI go back about thirty years. My rifles were all Hunters, not target guns.
Still have a 24" Light Weight bolt gun, capable of 1/2" for four shots at 100 yds and usually sub 1" at 200 yds...with Nolser 150 or 160 gr PARTITIONS. and NP's are not exactly Match bullets. Simply a good barrel and a properly bedded action in a stable HS Precision stock. My crono data shows I avg 2950 for 150's and 2850 for 160 gr bullets.
My oldest is my original, once rebarreled Rem 700. Always been a 26" gun, Originally a Douglas with a #3 taper . now a HART with the same taper. That ones in an old Brown , glass stock, pillar bedded and Timney trigger.
May simply be a "fast" barrel or two inches DO make a difference, but I avg 3050 for 150's and 2950 for 160's.
I've hunted a lot of game, most of it between 200 and 400 yds with both guns. And I finished probably a dozen wounded animals with these guns, a few at over 500 yds , back when I Guided hunters. The .280 Rem has never let me down.
I've also got another Rem 700 with a 26" Hart that my Smith AI'd for me several years back. Added maybe 100 fps to my previous loads, but didn't see much of an accuracy difference. that gun shot well when I got it back from Harts, it still shoots well.
My only issue with the AI is fireforming brass. IF you need a large quantity. I have 60 rds as it's purely a hunting gun. I recently thought of using it for a LR shoot with some friends and by the time I bought 100 rds of new Rem or Win .280 brass, THEN fireformed, then loaded it all AGAIN...I gave up on the idea. YMMV and MY issue is one of not having the TIME or components right now to blow a hundred rds downrange, then reload again. Probably a personal glitch of my own.
I like the .280 AI as it's a sexy looking cartridge, it does add another 100 fps and cases do NOT seem to grow much at all. I'm still loading my original 50 or 60 cases , some with 5 and 6 loadings already.
All that said....one of my favorite cartridges is the 7mm-08 Remington. I've suggested it to many hunters over the years and it's what my wife hunts with. She has cleanly killed several elk with 150 or 160 NP's at a leisurely 2400 -2500 fps.
To me the .280 Rem is just a little bit BETTER. Capable of shooting heavier bullets and reaching out farther.
Do some research into the .280 Rem. You may be surprised how many fans it has. For what ever reason the MAJORITY of hi end Custom rifles are chambered in .280 Rem. Or at least thats the stat I read a few years ago. A very popular cartridge with the Custom builders.
Sorry that my experience is with hunting and not Matches....but DO take a closer look at the .280 Rem and the AI.
A wounded bull finished with a single shot at 555 yds, std .280 Rem, 160 NP. I'd never normally shoot at that distance. The hunters Burris scope was off and he gut shot this guy twice at 80 yds. Closest shot We had before it got too dark. He was going to use my rifle, then at the last minute asked me to finish it. Simply posting to show It can deliver some good LR accuracy.
FN in MT
Still have a 24" Light Weight bolt gun, capable of 1/2" for four shots at 100 yds and usually sub 1" at 200 yds...with Nolser 150 or 160 gr PARTITIONS. and NP's are not exactly Match bullets. Simply a good barrel and a properly bedded action in a stable HS Precision stock. My crono data shows I avg 2950 for 150's and 2850 for 160 gr bullets.
My oldest is my original, once rebarreled Rem 700. Always been a 26" gun, Originally a Douglas with a #3 taper . now a HART with the same taper. That ones in an old Brown , glass stock, pillar bedded and Timney trigger.
May simply be a "fast" barrel or two inches DO make a difference, but I avg 3050 for 150's and 2950 for 160's.
I've hunted a lot of game, most of it between 200 and 400 yds with both guns. And I finished probably a dozen wounded animals with these guns, a few at over 500 yds , back when I Guided hunters. The .280 Rem has never let me down.
I've also got another Rem 700 with a 26" Hart that my Smith AI'd for me several years back. Added maybe 100 fps to my previous loads, but didn't see much of an accuracy difference. that gun shot well when I got it back from Harts, it still shoots well.
My only issue with the AI is fireforming brass. IF you need a large quantity. I have 60 rds as it's purely a hunting gun. I recently thought of using it for a LR shoot with some friends and by the time I bought 100 rds of new Rem or Win .280 brass, THEN fireformed, then loaded it all AGAIN...I gave up on the idea. YMMV and MY issue is one of not having the TIME or components right now to blow a hundred rds downrange, then reload again. Probably a personal glitch of my own.
I like the .280 AI as it's a sexy looking cartridge, it does add another 100 fps and cases do NOT seem to grow much at all. I'm still loading my original 50 or 60 cases , some with 5 and 6 loadings already.
All that said....one of my favorite cartridges is the 7mm-08 Remington. I've suggested it to many hunters over the years and it's what my wife hunts with. She has cleanly killed several elk with 150 or 160 NP's at a leisurely 2400 -2500 fps.
To me the .280 Rem is just a little bit BETTER. Capable of shooting heavier bullets and reaching out farther.
Do some research into the .280 Rem. You may be surprised how many fans it has. For what ever reason the MAJORITY of hi end Custom rifles are chambered in .280 Rem. Or at least thats the stat I read a few years ago. A very popular cartridge with the Custom builders.
Sorry that my experience is with hunting and not Matches....but DO take a closer look at the .280 Rem and the AI.
A wounded bull finished with a single shot at 555 yds, std .280 Rem, 160 NP. I'd never normally shoot at that distance. The hunters Burris scope was off and he gut shot this guy twice at 80 yds. Closest shot We had before it got too dark. He was going to use my rifle, then at the last minute asked me to finish it. Simply posting to show It can deliver some good LR accuracy.
FN in MT
I'm very glad I'm getting a lot of feedback about this. Because all this means that I have a lot to learn, which excites me. Thank you for the advice Turbo. I actually took your past advice from a former thread I started, in which I asked about the 7mm Practical (I choose to do a 260 instead, which I am about six weeks away from having in my hands) this next rifle will for sure be some sort of 7mm caliber. It's just an itch that I really need to scratch. Ha ha ha ha. Thanks again all!
Thanks for the accolades!
260 has you covered for tacmatch engagements to ~1100.
Your 7 is your long gun...I gotcha.
You need an ASC gun...a 7RSAUM, 7WSM, 7-300WSM, 7RM or 7-300WM.
My opinion is there's too much overlap between a 260 and 280/284 to warrant 2 guns. 280/284 is a fabulous "one" gun.
Go big if you're going to step up.
I run a 280AI and can vouche for it's effectiveness. It is my "go to" big game/target rifle and it served me well in my first match. It isn't mag fed, so it won't be seeing anymore matches 
I'd say go 280AI, get some Nosler brass, H4831SC, and some 162A-Maxes and rock on. 2950fps and the 162A-max will do whatever you need it to and leaves nothing on the table compared to the others. Easy to load for, managable recoil, great components, feeds like greased snot, and lots of data to be found. The only gripe folks will have is that it requires a long action, but so will most of the other calibers mentioned in this thread.
I'd say go 280AI, get some Nosler brass, H4831SC, and some 162A-Maxes and rock on. 2950fps and the 162A-max will do whatever you need it to and leaves nothing on the table compared to the others. Easy to load for, managable recoil, great components, feeds like greased snot, and lots of data to be found. The only gripe folks will have is that it requires a long action, but so will most of the other calibers mentioned in this thread.
I didn't even consider that overlap factor, so thank u again. BTW turbo, congrats on the sniper match at thunder valley. Also, forgive my newness to this all, but was does ASC mean? LoL sorry.
Someone fed the OP some serious BS. Fortunately, Engine22 and others have set the record straight. I also run a 280 AI with 162 Amax's and 175 SMK's both with H4831SC. Mine was built on a Surgeon action, and I won't be getting rid of her anytime soon. Load workup was a breeze and she drives tacks. What more do you want?
ASC is Allegheny Sniper Challenge. A lot of long shots in the windy mountains, and you can make good use if a magnum 7mm of some sort.
Whatever you choose, a .65ish BC 7mm bullet @ 2800+ works damn well...and the 280 is good to go.
Personally, if I was hard for a 280, I think I'd HAVE to choose the Ackley.
Thanks on TVP! It was a good day! Squirrel. Blind. Acorn. Occasionally.
If you are turned off by a long action, you can get identical performance to the 280 AI with the 7 SAUM.
I have two .280's, both factory Ruger MK-I's; the difference being one has a sporter barrel and the other a varmint barrel. My load development is stalled due to higher priority projects and this drought of handloading components.
Testing with Nosler 120gr, 140gr, and 150gr Ballistic Tips, using H-4350 and H-4831SC, clearly demonstrates that the accuracy is there to find.
The 150gr NBT may or may not make 1000 supersonic, heavier ones will.
A longer barrel (28" or plus), and a twist faster than the standard 1:9" would make it easier to work with bullets heavier than 168gr; but if the 150 will stay supersonic, it's my choice for a flatter shooter creating less recoil and/or throat wear.
For a match gun that uses a single-feed approach, the .280 (and other cases based on the .30-'06) can be hand fed into a short action, will extract/eject empties OK, and can do the same for unfired cartridges as long as the shooter is willing to trip the bolt release and withdraw the bolt that slight bit further for those actually rather rare instances where it would be necessary.
Greg
Testing with Nosler 120gr, 140gr, and 150gr Ballistic Tips, using H-4350 and H-4831SC, clearly demonstrates that the accuracy is there to find.
The 150gr NBT may or may not make 1000 supersonic, heavier ones will.
A longer barrel (28" or plus), and a twist faster than the standard 1:9" would make it easier to work with bullets heavier than 168gr; but if the 150 will stay supersonic, it's my choice for a flatter shooter creating less recoil and/or throat wear.
For a match gun that uses a single-feed approach, the .280 (and other cases based on the .30-'06) can be hand fed into a short action, will extract/eject empties OK, and can do the same for unfired cartridges as long as the shooter is willing to trip the bolt release and withdraw the bolt that slight bit further for those actually rather rare instances where it would be necessary.
Greg
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I just finished a straight .280 for my son in law and it shoots very well. The .280 or .284 will do well for you. A lot or F-class and B/R shooters are using the .284. The only issue with the .284 is case capacity when you get in to long bullets. I am seriously considering a .280 for my next build. If you want above 2800 - 2900 with long bullets you'll have to go to the 280 AI or a magnum. The AI will be a tad slower than the mag, but noting I would worry about. Nosler sells AI brass or you can fireform it.
The 280 is a great round, not sure where you heard it wasnt. The 280AI is even better...but not by much. It DOES do well with the correct barrel twist and bullet. I have a good bit of experience with 280s. I shot mine in the ASC match this past spring.
Nosler's load data for the .280 Remington. For .280AI.
The primary advantages I see from the .280 and .280AI are brass availability, tolerable recoil, a common bolt face diameter, and compatibility with any .30-'06 and/or .270 based action/magazine. I use factory primed, nickel plated Win brass that came with the rifles when I inherited them. Unplated Remington brass that came as Hornady loaded ammo has also worked without issues.
My choice would be for a 28" long, 1:9" twist barrel chambered in .280 Rem with a factory Varmint contour, in my case, Savage; ideally using 175's and H-4831SC, but 168's should work well if the 175's can't handle the twist.
I don't really expect much of an issue with the 175's in the 28" barrel, though, with the added 2"-4" length allowing the chambering to achieve a higher velocity potential for a given load.
Actually, with said barrel, I seriously doubt a compelling need for anything heavier than a 150gr Ballistic Tip for targets out to as far as 1000yd, and would consider the 140gr Partition to be a pretty adequate hunting round.
Greg
The primary advantages I see from the .280 and .280AI are brass availability, tolerable recoil, a common bolt face diameter, and compatibility with any .30-'06 and/or .270 based action/magazine. I use factory primed, nickel plated Win brass that came with the rifles when I inherited them. Unplated Remington brass that came as Hornady loaded ammo has also worked without issues.
My choice would be for a 28" long, 1:9" twist barrel chambered in .280 Rem with a factory Varmint contour, in my case, Savage; ideally using 175's and H-4831SC, but 168's should work well if the 175's can't handle the twist.
I don't really expect much of an issue with the 175's in the 28" barrel, though, with the added 2"-4" length allowing the chambering to achieve a higher velocity potential for a given load.
Actually, with said barrel, I seriously doubt a compelling need for anything heavier than a 150gr Ballistic Tip for targets out to as far as 1000yd, and would consider the 140gr Partition to be a pretty adequate hunting round.
Greg
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You won't be disappointed with either the 284 or the 280. I have the 284 with a 28" barrel and shoot the 162s. However the brass is harder to find for the 284 but Lapua is coming back on line now. The down side of the 284 or 280 is the recoil. They are also good for close to 3000rds which is really nice. Like was said above, if I was going to shoot just tactical matches I would probably go with the 6.5s or 6MMs. If your going to be doing most of your shooting in the 1000yd range or further then go with the 7MMs. I have shot my 284 out to a mile accurately, which really surprised me. No matter which you choose you will be happy with it.
I've shot the 284 since 2006 when I built my 1st one on a trued LA700 with a PTG custom bolt. Used a 28" PacNor 3-groove 9tw bbl in a contour that's just a tad heavier than a hvy Palma but lighter than a hvy varmint. It's always been a hammer with S175MKs & H4831, and also likes the 162 AMax, though I shoot them shorter ranges and go with the 175/180s from 800yds on out. I put this bbl'd action into an adjustable McM A5, and have shot it in both NRA LR any/any & tactical steel matches. It's a bit heavy to lug around if you've got to walk between stages (15.25lbs), but is wonderfully accurate, and feeds slick with B-O DBM & AI 300WM mags.
Dunno about some of the comments on 'easily' attained velocities though - sorta like sayin that any ship can be a minesweeper - once. Sure, you can load the 162s to 2950fps, but how long is your brass gonna last at that level? As difficult to find & expensive as brass is today, I'll go for accuracy first, and settle for whatever velocity I can get that will give good case life. I used to think that maybe I had a whole bunch of 'slow' barrels, and/or defective chrono's, but after checking my CED M2 against a friend's MagnetoSpeed, I'm pretty confident that the M2 is spot-on. Maybe the WW284 brass is a bunch softer than Lapua? Dunno - all I've ever shot was WW, and I've found primer pockets get pretty sloppy pretty fast if I push it too much.
More recently, I built myself a 280 AI on another trued LA700, and put it in a desert camo A5 stock, though this one doesn't have an adjustable cheekpiece. Had just bought a couple of long (31"&33") Krieger hvy Palma 5R 9tw bbls off their inventory list, so used the 31" blank and finished it at 30". Added a 1"dia Harrell's tactical brake with 3/4-32 threads, so this beast is too long to fit in any of my dragbag cases. But it shoots great - and fireform loads with S168MKs at 2828fps shoot really well - plenty good enough for match use, so why mess with COW or blow $$$ bullets in the dirt to fireform?
Only drawback is getting AI or Accurate magazines to work with any of the '06 family of cases. I used PTG Stealth DBM on this rifle, and though the AI 300WM mags are way long enough to feed even the 180 Hybrids seated out to jammed in my chamber's long throat, I've not had much luck tweaking the feed lips and getting reliable feeding on the last couple of rounds in the mag. Sure wish Accurate Mag would get with the program and finish the development of the mags they've been telling me they're working on! Or is there another option that will work with the '06, 280, etc?
Dunno about some of the comments on 'easily' attained velocities though - sorta like sayin that any ship can be a minesweeper - once. Sure, you can load the 162s to 2950fps, but how long is your brass gonna last at that level? As difficult to find & expensive as brass is today, I'll go for accuracy first, and settle for whatever velocity I can get that will give good case life. I used to think that maybe I had a whole bunch of 'slow' barrels, and/or defective chrono's, but after checking my CED M2 against a friend's MagnetoSpeed, I'm pretty confident that the M2 is spot-on. Maybe the WW284 brass is a bunch softer than Lapua? Dunno - all I've ever shot was WW, and I've found primer pockets get pretty sloppy pretty fast if I push it too much.
More recently, I built myself a 280 AI on another trued LA700, and put it in a desert camo A5 stock, though this one doesn't have an adjustable cheekpiece. Had just bought a couple of long (31"&33") Krieger hvy Palma 5R 9tw bbls off their inventory list, so used the 31" blank and finished it at 30". Added a 1"dia Harrell's tactical brake with 3/4-32 threads, so this beast is too long to fit in any of my dragbag cases. But it shoots great - and fireform loads with S168MKs at 2828fps shoot really well - plenty good enough for match use, so why mess with COW or blow $$$ bullets in the dirt to fireform?
Only drawback is getting AI or Accurate magazines to work with any of the '06 family of cases. I used PTG Stealth DBM on this rifle, and though the AI 300WM mags are way long enough to feed even the 180 Hybrids seated out to jammed in my chamber's long throat, I've not had much luck tweaking the feed lips and getting reliable feeding on the last couple of rounds in the mag. Sure wish Accurate Mag would get with the program and finish the development of the mags they've been telling me they're working on! Or is there another option that will work with the '06, 280, etc?
I think one solution might be to treat the 280 like a Palma gun on steroids. With a long enough barrel, Nosler 150gr Ballistic Tips are going to reach out supersonic to 1Kyd, and even though the Palma may be a compromise based on an arbitrary limitation, I do see clearly that they can be made to shoot danged well. The 150 may be short enough for mag feeding, depends on jump.
And my next question is why do they need to feed from a magazine? I've been shooting my F Class rifle with a single feed follower and no ejector for a decade now; no fuss, no muss, feed the round, then pluck out the empty. I shoot F Open COF with a 20rd for score, 30min stage time limit. Works.
And my next question is why do they need to feed from a magazine? I've been shooting my F Class rifle with a single feed follower and no ejector for a decade now; no fuss, no muss, feed the round, then pluck out the empty. I shoot F Open COF with a 20rd for score, 30min stage time limit. Works.
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Greg,
If my 280 AI was intended for use in NRA LR matches, I'd have built it on a solid bottom single shot action, like the BAT 3LL in a Robertson H&H with hvy Palma bbls in 6.5x55AI & 284 sitting in the safe behind me. I built this beast as both a relatively low $$$ test bed to find out how the 280 AI compares to the three 284s (also have a 284 for a DTA SRS done on a 28" Bartlein 5R blank), and with the intent to play with it in a semi-local LR steel tactical match. It's too long & heavy to be real practical, but I wanted to give the AI every advantage to see what sort of velocity it'll produce, relative to what I've gotten with the 284s. Most of the stages at the steel match I referred to are timed, so magazine feed & quick reload capability are a must.
I'd have thought there'd be enough demand for an AI-style magazine to feed ctdgs in the '06 family for someone to have started making them a long time ago. Guess if most shooters can't get enough uumph out of a 308 to suit them, they skip right over the old '06 & its derivatives, and go straight to belted magnums. Whatever - I'd sure like to have access to a bunch of 5-shot AI-style mags that were made from the start to work with the '06 or any of its offspring.
If my 280 AI was intended for use in NRA LR matches, I'd have built it on a solid bottom single shot action, like the BAT 3LL in a Robertson H&H with hvy Palma bbls in 6.5x55AI & 284 sitting in the safe behind me. I built this beast as both a relatively low $$$ test bed to find out how the 280 AI compares to the three 284s (also have a 284 for a DTA SRS done on a 28" Bartlein 5R blank), and with the intent to play with it in a semi-local LR steel tactical match. It's too long & heavy to be real practical, but I wanted to give the AI every advantage to see what sort of velocity it'll produce, relative to what I've gotten with the 284s. Most of the stages at the steel match I referred to are timed, so magazine feed & quick reload capability are a must.
I'd have thought there'd be enough demand for an AI-style magazine to feed ctdgs in the '06 family for someone to have started making them a long time ago. Guess if most shooters can't get enough uumph out of a 308 to suit them, they skip right over the old '06 & its derivatives, and go straight to belted magnums. Whatever - I'd sure like to have access to a bunch of 5-shot AI-style mags that were made from the start to work with the '06 or any of its offspring.
Something pretty neat about the 280 AI or standard is the fact that in 300 win magazines the 5 rounders hold 6 and the ten rounders hold 12. 24 rounds with one mag change in a wind cheating caliber like that is some advantage. FYI my 280 AI with a 28in barrel will get to 1000 at 6.6 at 750 asl. Georges 6.5 rsum is faster and flatter and so is the 7wsm. But that's about it. I hope to get to go back to ASC someday and redeem myself after the stock on my last one broke inside and I didn't know it. My 280ai will be the one I take.
I was going to build a 280ai for my latest build and my gunsmith talked me into a 7SAUM instead. Very close to identical ballistics, downside seems to be finding brass.
Was just going to say the 7mm Creedmoor, it sounds good to me.
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...5616-7mm-creedmoor-powder-velocity-tests.html
Yeah, good luck on finding brass, 7 Creed brass can easily be made with 6.5 Creedmoor or 6 Creed. Something to ponder for about 2 secs.
Don't be impressed by velocity, That steel plate out at 1K is not going to fall over impressed by FPS. Load for accuracy.
The .280 sucks . . . ?
There's nothing wrong with the .280. But it won't do much more than will the .284, which has fewer brass stretch issues.
At ASC I run a .284 with 180JLKs (.735BC) at 2850fps. The 6mms are nice, but 7mm recoil isn't a factor in an 18lb rifle and a 7mm bullet helps spot misses at long range, especially when the grass is wet.
You don't need extreme velocity if you have BC.
There's nothing wrong with the .280. But it won't do much more than will the .284, which has fewer brass stretch issues.
At ASC I run a .284 with 180JLKs (.735BC) at 2850fps. The 6mms are nice, but 7mm recoil isn't a factor in an 18lb rifle and a 7mm bullet helps spot misses at long range, especially when the grass is wet.
You don't need extreme velocity if you have BC.
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You may want to read the string, "What to the pros use". You may change you mind as you plan on using for tactical matches.
Thanks for your "like" Graham. And you are right, It's not about the gun. It's about using the tool you have correctly. You can have the latest wizbang gadget that you soaked $6K into and someone will beat you with their $900 budget rifle. I am a firm believer in the KISS principle, keep it simple stupid. Technology is good BUT learn to do it the old fashioned way, batteries die, electronics get wet and the old adage, if it can go wrong, it will, at the wrong time, like untested magazines at a match. But to get back on track, prodigalson, if you like the 280, go for it, I am a 7mm fan myself, have a magnum and a 708, kinda thinking of a 284 mag for my next build. Have fun and don't listen to the Philistines.
You guys may be right, it aint about the gun, or scope or cartridge, however; there may be something to the gun, scope, barrel and cartridge if the TOP 50 shooters are using/not using. If it is not seen in the top 10-or top 50 for a full year, it may not be the best cartridge/barrel/caliber/scope etc. for match use, just because it is used in matches means very little, it does matter if it wins matches. If it wins matches it can be said it is used by the winners, it becomes a fact. Next year, at the end of the year, if in fact the 280 is well into the top 50, then it should be noticed, and considered by all, if not........just saying.
I have owned/built a few .280's. As a hunting round it does many things well.
D
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Where can one find such lists?
Great hunting round, one of the best! I thought this string was regarding a tactical match round.
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