What types of match ammo have you shot? In my rifles the L.C. M118LR never shot well. Have you tried Black Hills, Federal Gold Medal Match or Hornady match ammo in the rifle?
- Thread starter Thebelly
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How often are you using a copper solvent on the bore?
Most of my gas guns shoot tighter with a fouled bore but one of them shoots it's best with a squeaky-clean bore and it's the difference between sub 3/4 MOA and 2.5 MOA. Might be something to look into.
Most of my gas guns shoot tighter with a fouled bore but one of them shoots it's best with a squeaky-clean bore and it's the difference between sub 3/4 MOA and 2.5 MOA. Might be something to look into.
I was actually more concerned with you misquoting a rifles price by $600 or about 21%. I don't know about you but I think a $600 difference is pretty significant. Don't try to bash the price of something then exaggerate on the price... As for the accuracy of the rifle, if the 3 shot groups aren't under 1.5" and you aren't happy, ask for a refund or sell it. If you are looking for more accuracy an OBR would have been more appropriate, if you are unhappy with LaRue go a different route.
A non-concentric muzzle device, one that is improperly machined will have a negative effect on accuracy. On any gun that I would shoot for groups I also wouldn't install it with a crush washer. They can cause the muzzle device to sit crooked when torqued.
You don't want to open that can of worms with LT...Their machining is perfect and they obviously checked for that during their testing..................
Ha! Well, odds are they didn't make the FH...but I'm guessing its prob one of those well made $5 A2 style ones.
Of course, the FH could be ok, but the barrel threads could be shit. Either way, shooting it w/o the FH will give you some sort of starting point.
Of course, the FH could be ok, but the barrel threads could be shit. Either way, shooting it w/o the FH will give you some sort of starting point.
Guys we are talking about a gun that's almost $3000.00. I would be livid if it shot like that. I have a DPMS LR308 that after ALOT of load development can routinely shoot 0.5" groups at 100 yards. The gun cost me $895.00. Many hours were spent at the range but the results paid off. Expensive guns don't equate to accurate guns. 1.5 MOA is really not that surprising. Gotta find the happy load!! Takes a lot of time. On a side note the vertical stringing looks like inconsistent hold. Just a thought. My happy load is the following: Winchester brass, Fed match primer, 168 Nosler HPBT and 42.5gr 8208XBR. VERY accurate. My 0.05 worth.
Have you called larue, I am sure they will take care of you.
I would take the muzzle brake/FH off and make sure the crown is clean and shoot groups without it.
I've called more than once. I've sent more than one email. The gun has been back to their shop for their engineers to examine it. They say that it meets factory specifications.
The gun still won't hold a consistent zero.
If you know the magic password to get a more in depth response, then I'm all ears, brother.
TheBelly,
Even though my fancy new AR upper was very accurate, it developed POI shifts after 400 rounds, slight at first and worsening over time which was immensely frustrating. The problem ended up being that the barrel gradually loosened from the extension.
I wouldn't assume that the extension or anything else was even checked when it was sent back. I just got my broken computer sent back from the Geek Squad with various papers showing it's clean bill of health... uhh still broke, maybe worse than before I sent it in. The GS guys at the counter at Best Buy said they'd never even seen a computer screen do what mine was doing before and took it back to show the other geeks, I could hear laughter in the back, LOL.
Sadly this is typical of my luck, I've actually had a barrel on a bolt rifle come loose too, except was apprised of the symptoms that time.
Even though my fancy new AR upper was very accurate, it developed POI shifts after 400 rounds, slight at first and worsening over time which was immensely frustrating. The problem ended up being that the barrel gradually loosened from the extension.
I wouldn't assume that the extension or anything else was even checked when it was sent back. I just got my broken computer sent back from the Geek Squad with various papers showing it's clean bill of health... uhh still broke, maybe worse than before I sent it in. The GS guys at the counter at Best Buy said they'd never even seen a computer screen do what mine was doing before and took it back to show the other geeks, I could hear laughter in the back, LOL.
Sadly this is typical of my luck, I've actually had a barrel on a bolt rifle come loose too, except was apprised of the symptoms that time.
I stopped by LaRue today, un announced. I spoke with John Mailloux about the issues I continue to have with this gun.
What I got out of it was, "Since Mark has already emailed you about this, you have to email him directly." About five minutes after that, John told me to talk with Mr. Finger. I asked the question: "If I'm supposed to talk to Mark, why do I also need to talk to Mr. Finger?" I didn't quite catch the response, but it didnt immediately sound convincing.
I am most decidedly determined that, despite me being the first owner and the gun having an extremely low round count, LaRue does not intend to make this right.
I have given up on LaRue. They've earned it.
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What a jackass. Mark needs to not be a pussy and have the balls to speak with you face to face.
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Wow, sorry to hear that Sir, I have always had good luck with Larue CS.
Maybe share of pic of yohr rig for us? Something we can look over.
Maybe share of pic of yohr rig for us? Something we can look over.
You mean ML is only internet tough?
LOL!!
What pics would you like to see?
Of the whole rifle. We can analize the problem a little better when we can see the whole rifle.
How do you figure?
Unless you're the 'AR Whisperer', you'll probably need some fairly detailed photos, my friend..
What specific areas of the gun would you like to see?
I think he was either calling out your trigger finger or verbally flicking you off... Talk to Mr. Finger
What mount are you running, muzzle break, barrel centered in handguard? Generally seeing details of a setup people can answer back with things to check.
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Yeah, you didn't really buy a precision rifle, but I'd try several kinds of ammunition. Those light barrels just don't work well, especially on a .308 AR for precision. I have a 7.62 OBR that shoots Federal ammo about .75-1.25 MOA consistently for five rounds. My handloads shoot .5-.75 MOA consistently. When I shoot it suppressed with handloads (and a thread-on suppressor), it shoots .25-.45 MOA. I shot a ten round group last week with it, with two called fliers, and it was approximately .5 MOA. I have noticed that the groups get bigger vertically as more rounds are fired.
I've got a Daniel Defense 5.56 with a lw barrel on it. It shoots GREAT for three rounds. Five rounds its mediocre. More than five, the POI starts to wander around, but it stays on the plate at 300. However, this is acceptable because of the purpose of the gun; lw barrel that is handy. Meanwhile, my normal contour DD and BCMs will usually maintain POI for ten rounds or so.
My venture with ARs has led me to believe that ARs are great for banging the plate quickly, but aren't going to be quite as precise as a bolt-action. Its a mater of the right tool for the right job. When I want gnat's ass accuracy and precision, I pick up my AI or my 700. If I want "good enough" accuracy combined with capacity and speed, I shoot ARs.
My advice would be accept the gun for what it is or sell it.
I've got a Daniel Defense 5.56 with a lw barrel on it. It shoots GREAT for three rounds. Five rounds its mediocre. More than five, the POI starts to wander around, but it stays on the plate at 300. However, this is acceptable because of the purpose of the gun; lw barrel that is handy. Meanwhile, my normal contour DD and BCMs will usually maintain POI for ten rounds or so.
My venture with ARs has led me to believe that ARs are great for banging the plate quickly, but aren't going to be quite as precise as a bolt-action. Its a mater of the right tool for the right job. When I want gnat's ass accuracy and precision, I pick up my AI or my 700. If I want "good enough" accuracy combined with capacity and speed, I shoot ARs.
My advice would be accept the gun for what it is or sell it.
A friend of mine bought a S&W OR Carbine (5.56/.223) last year. Four people shooting it couldnt get anything even close to a group. There was absolutely no pattern to the POI.
S&W was contacted, S&W took the gun back and S&W recently it returned with a note they changed the barrel. He hasnt shot it yet but I think it likely the problem will be fixed. Im guessing it was a loose barrel and their process is just to rebuild the top when these problems come up and let it go as almost new, in tight spec.
Saves S&W from having to test fire than get into a pissing contest with the customer.
Not saying Id take an S&W over a Larue but its an example of how economies of scale can allow the big manufacturer to provide better CS.
S&W was contacted, S&W took the gun back and S&W recently it returned with a note they changed the barrel. He hasnt shot it yet but I think it likely the problem will be fixed. Im guessing it was a loose barrel and their process is just to rebuild the top when these problems come up and let it go as almost new, in tight spec.
Saves S&W from having to test fire than get into a pissing contest with the customer.
Not saying Id take an S&W over a Larue but its an example of how economies of scale can allow the big manufacturer to provide better CS.
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Lets say for a moment that it does have a defective barrel. I wonder what larue would replace it with??? Maybe OP sbould try later when LT gets their barrels rolling? Maybe tbey would be more willing to help? Just a thought....
Looks like there really wasn't a problem other than user error......
They told him it was a 4" rifle :^) - AR15.COM
They told him it was a 4" rifle :^) - AR15.COM
I bought a LaRue PredatAR 7.62 with a 16" barrel.
Using BH match ammo, I was able to get some good groups out of it. Those groups are on page 6 of elfster's 100 yard shout out, round 2.
I felt good enough about it that I took the package to Rifles Only for a class there. When I got there, the rifle wouldn't group well. I thought it was me. Both the primary and alternate instructor shot groups out of it, and it was determined that its a 4" gun. The ammo used was M118LR.
I immediately got in touch with LaRue Tactical to get this fixed. They had it for a week, shot 14, 3-shot groups and they determined that the rifle meets the factory specs.
HERE'S WHERE I NEED YOUR HELP, HIDE MEMBERS!!!
Here are the targets they sent me:
Here are the two questions I have?
1) DOES THIS GUN HAVE A CONSISTENT POINT OF IMPACT BETWEEN THE GROUPS? (The assumption is that there was a consistent POA)
2) WHAT IS THE ACCURACY LEVEL OF THIS GUN, in MOA?
For any of the background on this, please see this thread, starting on page two: http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/snipers-hide-semi-auto-rifles/211285-larue-obr-7-62-a.html
Please help me interpret this data provided by LaRue....
Thanks so much in advance!!
So then who at LaRue shot these
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Mark invited me down this afternoon. On the way down, I was actually a little nervous about what sort of lions den I was walking in to.
I am entirely pleased with the experience.
The gun can flat out shoot. After the barrel got good and warm, I switched over to M118LR. (Funny side note: I always get asked that question about whether or not it's real M118LR.)
With a hot barrel it shot 1.5" @ 100yds...... Out of a hot pencil barrel.
Here it is, Gents: I had what I thought was a problem, and it's a weird feeling to know that the owner of the company took time out, after business hours mind you, to show me what needed to be done. Mark LaRue personally took care of me, and he had engineers standing by to answer my nerdy questions. Once it all clicked in my head about the answers, it shot right around MOA for me. With practice, I bet I can get this gun to shoot sub-MOA.
I am entirely pleased with the experience.
The gun can flat out shoot. After the barrel got good and warm, I switched over to M118LR. (Funny side note: I always get asked that question about whether or not it's real M118LR.)
With a hot barrel it shot 1.5" @ 100yds...... Out of a hot pencil barrel.
Here it is, Gents: I had what I thought was a problem, and it's a weird feeling to know that the owner of the company took time out, after business hours mind you, to show me what needed to be done. Mark LaRue personally took care of me, and he had engineers standing by to answer my nerdy questions. Once it all clicked in my head about the answers, it shot right around MOA for me. With practice, I bet I can get this gun to shoot sub-MOA.
Glad you got it resolved!
Congrats sir!
Perhaps the rifles only instructors should take a class in leander hmm? ;-)
Mark explained the whole thing to me this afternoon. If you were there, you'd know the answer.
Mark explained the whole thing to me this afternoon. If you were there, you'd know the answer.
Well dude since you stirred the shit I think you owe everyone a better explanation then that.
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No. I don't.
ETA: I signed a non-disclosure with LaRue Tactical. The details of our conversations and almost 2 hours of Q and A were only possible due to that. I know that some folks might be pretty curious about the details of this afternoon, but they were only possible because that same NDA.
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This is what I love about cowards like you on the Internet. You are willing to spill your guts and trash a manufacturer but when it comes out it was your doing to begin with, you put your tail between your legs and hide. Next time drive down there and resolve it man to man in the beginning. Manufacturers are much more cooperative when issues are handled privately and professionally. You sir are a douche.
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I sent the rifle in. I wasn't satisfied with the response. Yesterday I showed up at their front door. Today I met face to face with the owner of the company. Mark answered all of my questions, including about the targets from my first post. You don't know the entirety of the situation. Only two folks that aren't employed by them do. I'm one, you're not the other.
Maybe you don't understand about a non-disclosure agreement. If I talk about the particulars and details, legal action can be taken against me.
Would you get sued because someone from the Internet asked about what happens behind closed door? Didn't think so.
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I think you need to go back and read the post, and the one before it completely. The guy had RO instructors telling him something was wrong. He tried to get help from LT and they kept telling him everything was ok. He analyzed the targets and noticed a discrepancy. Only when LT said tbey couldnt help him did he come here for advice. Luckliy LT stepped in and helped him out. You can only respect someone for trying as hard as he did to get some answers. He manned up and said it was operator error. Unfortunately he cant speak about what he was doing wrong. I fail to see why that makes him a bad guy. Let it go.
I signed an NDA to get past the lobby, which is standard from what I understand.
I asked VERY particular questions while in the back. I got very detailed answers in return.
I'm pretty sure without the NDA, I would have had less answers to my questions.
What part of NON DISCLOSURE AGREEMENT aka NDA is unclear?
Seriously! He owes nothing. He manned up . . . Admitted user error and that Mark and co. took care of his issue apparently in a big way.
Whether you are a Larue fanboy . . . Guilty as I like his mounts . . . Or hate the OBR . . . Mark personally took the time to meet and take care of his customer . . . . and that is what we ultimately demand on this expensive of a rifle. Obviously Mark took the time and resources to educate the OP and explain what was happening so the OP could regain the confidence in his rifle and reach his potential with that weapon.
How many other manufacturers would do the same?
Seriously! He owes nothing. He manned up . . . Admitted user error and that Mark and co. took care of his issue apparently in a big way.
Whether you are a Larue fanboy . . . Guilty as I like his mounts . . . Or hate the OBR . . . Mark personally took the time to meet and take care of his customer . . . . and that is what we ultimately demand on this expensive of a rifle. Obviously Mark took the time and resources to educate the OP and explain what was happening so the OP could regain the confidence in his rifle and reach his potential with that weapon.
How many other manufacturers would do the same?
So what was wrong with it and what did you do to get it shooting acceptably well?
I paid retail + local taxes, which came out to just aboutr $3k. I can't speak from experience with regards to DPMS/RRA/others mentioned, but a 7.6 lb rifle with a pencil barrel that shoots sub-MOA with dedicated match ammo AND THEN 1.5 MOA with a heated barrel while using military grade ammo......
I'm happy with the results, now that it's all been flushed out.
So when you calling up RO to tell them they need to take shooting lessons from Mark?
I'm a little low on the totem pole to be telling anyone what/how to do anything.
According to Mark they evidently don't know how to shoot. You should let them know.
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