The Garand, heavy bullets, and slow powders: Quest

Huckleberry

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I am building up a Garand, 30-06, to shoot the 208 A-max and slow powders. Krieger is doing the barrel and I will be using a McCann gas system. My question is this: Does anyone know how big the gas port is for the 30-06 based rifles? We are going to install the next to lowest orifice size for the McCann and open the hole up in the barrel until the gun will cycle. This should give me some leeway to use 190's and try different powders.

After this, if it works out, a 280 version will be on the menu.
 

our gang

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Re: The Garand, heavy bullets, and slow powders: Quest

The M-1 was never designed for slow powder. Every book advises against it. 4895 was designed for the M-1. Slow powders and heavy bullets can bend operation rods and cause other problems. The fact that an M-1 is not that accurate no matter how tuned leaves me wondering "why?"
If you want 06 performance with an semi-auto MOA rifle shooting heavy bullets, you need a DPMS LR in 300 SAUM.
I own a NM M-1 and the DPMS LR 300 SAUM. There is no contest on accuracy or performance beyond 300 yards.
dpms30saum1.jpg

 

Swamper

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Re: The Garand, heavy bullets, and slow powders: Quest

Mr Humble has it right.
 

MontanaMarine

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Re: The Garand, heavy bullets, and slow powders: Quest

The GI gas system won't handle it, but putting an adjustable gas system, and working port size from small to large it can be done.

There's a smith who makes 338 WinMag on the Garand, and some other unlikely calibers.

It's just a matter of regulating the amount of gas at the port. you can control it through port size, or powder selection. In a GI Garand, of course the port size is standardized to GI ammo.
 

Metalhead0483

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Re: The Garand, heavy bullets, and slow powders: Quest

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mr. Humble</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The fact that an M-1 is not that accurate no matter how tuned leaves me wondering "why?"
</div></div>

I'm going to have to dissagree with you there sir. My late war springfield with handloads of 4895 and 168grn A-Max's shoots quite well.

But yeah, slow powder is a recepe for disaster in an garand. The M1's been around for a good long while and what makes it tick is well known. Stick with what works and don't go getting creative.
 

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Re: The Garand, heavy bullets, and slow powders: Quest

"Quite well" I agree. 1.5 MOA is very good for an M-1. The 300 SAUM DPMS is sub MOA.
As for a 338 or 458 in an M-1...... why?

A BOSS equipped BAR in 338 is lighter, more accurate and scope ready. You can also rebbl a BAR to 458 if you feel a need for a semi auto 458.

If you want it build this 06' but anyone with an AR 10 300 SAUM and probably a 308 will kick your butt, given equal shooting ability.
 

buffybuster

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Re: The Garand, heavy bullets, and slow powders: Quest

The ony potential problem with the Garand is that, as designed, it does not have a self-limiting gas system. And the fact that it was not originally designed around the 30/06 cartridge. As a result, the Garand has been optimized to one load and relagated to faster powders and mid-weight bullets.

The Garand can be adapted to shoot slower powders and heavier bullets, without damage to the op-rod, by changing the gasport size/location and changing the dwell time of the gas system.
 

kraigWY

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Re: The Garand, heavy bullets, and slow powders: Quest

Why, 47 grns of 4895 with the 175 SMK works great in a Garand at 1000 yards.

I dont see the need for the heaver bullet even if the gun could take it (which it cant).

But thats just me.
 

Switchblade

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Re: The Garand, heavy bullets, and slow powders: Quest

I too must say that a Garand is capable of shooting $.25 groups at 100M. My son can hit with his, three times in the same quarter after we find it and put it back onto the target frame. While the groups are outside of $.10 size, they do fit into the quarter with room to spare. The rifle is a return WWII from lend lease(Danish) that has been refurbished internally, and shoots as good as he can.

This was taken when he first got the rifle a few years back. When we get together he usually brings his non gun owning friends who afterwards go find something of their own to shoot. Nothing like making non shooters into shooters after they shoot Garands, Tactical Rifles, AR's and shotguns

rikiM1G.jpg
 

MontanaMarine

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Re: The Garand, heavy bullets, and slow powders: Quest

Sounds like a cool project. Look forward to hearing how it goes. The 208s really fly well. Your build will no doubt open the door to high performance 30-06 handloads up and down the bullet spectrum.
 

MontanaMarine

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Re: The Garand, heavy bullets, and slow powders: Quest

The 338/458 Garand doesn't interest me personally. I just tossed that out there as an example of what is possible and already being done with proper engineering.

Being able to step up the 30-06 to it's modern potential in the old warhorse has appeal to me. The Garand has high degree of Americana and nostalgia associated with it. In this day and age, it's kinda motivating (to me) to see an old piece of American ingenuity being made even better by modern American ingenuity.
 

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Re: The Garand, heavy bullets, and slow powders: Quest


Yup M-1s are fun so were M-4s but both are 60+ years old and I think there has been some progress. BTW the DPMS is made in the USA as is the M1A2.
 

Huckleberry

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Re: The Garand, heavy bullets, and slow powders: Quest

Picked up three barreled actions from the CMP Saturday morning. One will be bone stock, one for heavy bullets and slow powders, and one in 280.

I have several custom bolt guns and gas guns. Want something different. The AR platform is also controlled by gas port size and it will also beat the shit out of itself with slow powders and heavy bullets unless you modify something. Plus its hard to like a gas system that eats where it shits. And by the way, the AR has been around going on 50 years.

Tim at Broughton is going to take a look at a factory barrel and see if he can do some prefit barrels on the 5C system. I want a heavier contour under the handgaurds like Krieger uses. My smith is going to chamber it with a 0 freebore reamer and use a throater for the OAL I need.
 

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Re: The Garand, heavy bullets, and slow powders: Quest

Hope you love em' cause you'll never recover your investement. You plan to scope them how??? G&H mounts cost as much as an AR upper.

As to gas impingment systems..... well there are some of us who still clean our rifles.
I have put 300 rounds through my DPMS 308 and never cleaned it until I got home.
The myth of jamming ARs ended a long time ago when the government figured out which powder to use. (See THE BLACK RIFLE book)
 

MontanaMarine

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Re: The Garand, heavy bullets, and slow powders: Quest

I doubt he's building them as investments, but they will probably do better than most stocks these days.

Everything doesn't have to make sense. If you get it, no explanation needed. If you don't, no explanation will do.

Kinda like your old .61 cal (?) musket.

This is still America, and we still do shit because we can and have the whim.

Surly old jarhead, you should be swillin' mojitos and takin' in the eye candy......grin

 

Huckleberry

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Re: The Garand, heavy bullets, and slow powders: Quest

I paid $100 each for three receivers with barrels that were 1's and 2's on the throat and muzzle. The barrels will bring at least $50 a piece by themselves. Open sights will be used, no scopes.

Use a can on that piece of shit and see how many rounds you get down the tube, one reason everyone wants a piston upper for the AR. The old DPMS mags are garbage as well. Do you honestly think that you will get what you paid for your DPMS new when you decide to trip it? Does anybody ever get what they originally paid for a custom rifle? Building guns is a bad investment from the start unless your buying all original collector's items.
 

Huckleberry

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Re: The Garand, heavy bullets, and slow powders: Quest

Update: I finally received the stock from Wenig's. It will be 14" LOP, laminate, and have a decelerator recoil pad. Krieger said the barrels will be here end of Feb. or so. Heavy stainless 10 twist that will be salt bath hardened once function and fit are correct. Not too much longer now.