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The GOAT

Maggot

Maggot

"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood"
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    • Jul 27, 2007
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    I know, pro sports suck, blah, blah.

    But we generally accept Tom Brady as the GOAT as quarterbacks go. Would he have been as good with out Rob Gronkowski. In the couple seasons he didnt have the Gronk he was strictly good, not great.

    Part of what makes me wonder is looking back at the one I'd call #2, Joe Montana. Would he have been as good without Jerry Rice? Rice was likely one of the great athletes of all time, any sport.

    Disgustcuss.
     
    Football is a team sport. A quarterback is only as good as the receivers. A running back is only as good as the o-line. Passing offense relies on the rushing offense and visa versa.

    QBs get too much credit AND too much blame.
     
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    Imagine Johnny Unitas and today's rules.

    I think you have to make a separation on rule changes. Pre mid 70s (I can't recall when they changed the rules) unless you shot the receiver it wasn't PI.

    Who did Farve or Brees have for receivers. Or Manning.

    I find the "Goat" discussions always biased towards recent memory.

    Jim Brown
    Don Hutson
    Otto Graham
    Sammy Baugh

    Random Ramblings of man shouting at clouds
     
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    DocRDS said:
    Imagine Johnny Unitas and today's rules.

    I think you have to make a separation on rule changes. Pre mid 70s (I can't recall when they changed the rules) unless you shot the receiver it wasn't PI.

    Who did Farve or Brees have for receivers. Or Manning.

    I find the "Goat" discussions always biased towards recent memory.

    Jim Brown
    Don Hutson
    Otto Graham
    Sammy Baugh

    Random Ramblings of man shouting at clouds
    Click to expand...
    Imagine Johnny Unitas and today's rules? Pffft, and I don't even care about football, but in his day pass rushers were 190lbs and ran a 3 minute 40 yard dash.

    Now they are 6'4" 260lb monsters who can run a 40y dash in just over 4 seconds. When you watch those older videos, it looks like they are playing in knee deep mud. The athletes get exponentially better every generation.
     
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    DocRDS said:
    Imagine Johnny Unitas and today's rules.

    I think you have to make a separation on rule changes. Pre mid 70s (I can't recall when they changed the rules) unless you shot the receiver it wasn't PI.

    Who did Farve or Brees have for receivers. Or Manning.

    I
    Sammy Baugh

    Random Ramblings of man shouting at clouds
    Click to expand...
    Thats why I brought up Rice and Gronk.
     
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    I have to say in my opinion that Brady is pretty great. The Gronk joined the Patriots in 2010. The Pat's had already won three Super Bowls at that point with Brady (withoutGronk). Brady's football I.Q. is one of the highest in the NFL. He is a master at reading the opponents defense which gives him opportunity to audible on the fly. He also great at motivating his team. He definitely brings out the best in his Player's.
    That being said it takes more than one man to make a winning team. He has been lucky enough with being able to hand pick many of the offensive players that surround him giving him a opportunity to be a great QB.
     
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    Tuck rule.

    Those 2 words say all you need to know about Brady winning .....cheating.....buying refs.

    I would absolutely say Montana was better and a case can definitely be made for Manning.
    Tom just hung around longer.....uhh....too long.
     
    Regardless of timeframe, old rules, new rules, 7 Super Bowl wins puts Brady in a class by himself.

    NFL Quarterbacks with the most Super Bowl wins all-time:
    • Tom Brady – 7.
    • Joe Montana – 4.
    • Terry Bradshaw – 4.
    • Troy Aikman – 3.
    • Eli Manning – 2.
    • Peyton Manning – 2.
    • Ben Roethlisberger – 2.
    • John Elway – 2.
     
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    Schroedernd said:
    Yea watching the same 5 teams get the best recruits every year and win almost all their games is so exciting isn’t it!
    Click to expand...
    Where do you live? I'll bet it isn't anywhere in the southeast, Texas, the pacific coast or the Midwest. That statement puts you on the east coast or the rocky mountain range.
     
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    Hecouldgoalltheway said:
    Where do you live? I'll bet it isn't anywhere in the southeast, Texas, the pacific coast or the Midwest. That statement puts you on the east coast or the rocky mountain range.
    Click to expand...
    Southern Oregon, but that doesn’t change anything. The 4 star recruits get stacked in the same teams year after year. At least the nfl had some excitement this year in the late season with teams no one expected to do as good as they did….
     
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    What did Brady do for the game? How many rules were changed or adopted to make him what he was? He may be considered the GOAT but let's take back some of the game decisions made outside of his control. Just a simple one, the tuck rule. How blatant could the referees be? How much did they bend over backwards to allow the Patriots to win that game. What about deflategate? Where were the suspensions? What about the video taping of an opponent's practice? All this a a bunch more led to Brady being considered the GOAT at quarterback.

    Look at him now. He misses receivers by yards, when he should have scrambled out of the pocket, he throws the ball into the ground. Give him an average team to play on and the GOAT doesn't look all that great.
     
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    BullGear said:
    What did Brady do for the game? How many rules were changed or adopted to make him what he was? He may be considered the GOAT but let's take back some of the game decisions made outside of his control. Just a simple one, the tuck rule. How blatant could the referees be? How much did they bend over backwards to allow the Patriots to win that game. What about deflategate? Where were the suspensions? What about the video taping of an opponent's practice? All this a a bunch more led to Brady being considered the GOAT at quarterback.

    Look at him now. He misses receivers by yards, when he should have scrambled out of the pocket, he throws the ball into the ground. Give him an average team to play on and the GOAT doesn't look all that great.
    Click to expand...
    Haters gonna hate. Post deflatgate. Under a microscope Brady wins 3 more Super Bowl's two with the Pat's and another with the Buc's. As far as putting Brady on a average team. The Buc's were 7 and 9 the year before Brady came on board and took them to the Super Bowl and won! His 1st year with a losing team and he brings them to a Super Bowl and they win! Yeah he really sucks! 🤣
     
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    BullGear said:
    What did Brady do for the game? How many rules were changed or adopted to make him what he was? He may be considered the GOAT but let's take back some of the game decisions made outside of his control. Just a simple one, the tuck rule. How blatant could the referees be? How much did they bend over backwards to allow the Patriots to win that game. What about deflategate? Where were the suspensions? What about the video taping of an opponent's practice? All this a a bunch more led to Brady being considered the GOAT at quarterback.

    Look at him now. He misses receivers by yards, when he should have scrambled out of the pocket, he throws the ball into the ground. Give him an average team to play on and the GOAT doesn't look all that great.
    Click to expand...
    He is also 45 years old playing with men who are 20 years younger....give it a break
     
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    Hecouldgoalltheway said:
    If Brady didn't have Bill bellicheck, he'd have been Mark Sanchez.
    Click to expand...
    Yeah right. 1st year Brady is away from the Pat's and he wins a Super Bowl with an "average team". Bellicheck is up north pulling his pud! Bellicheck will never win another Super Bowl 🏈. He is a good coach. With Brady he was a great coach.
     
    Last edited:
    SEMO Shooter said:
    Regardless of timeframe, old rules, new rules, 7 Super Bowl wins puts Brady in a class by himself.

    NFL Quarterbacks with the most Super Bowl wins all-time:
    • Tom Brady – 7.
    • Joe Montana – 4.
    • Terry Bradshaw – 4.
    • Troy Aikman – 3.
    • Eli Manning – 2.
    • Peyton Manning – 2.
    • Ben Roethlisberger – 2.
    • John Elway – 2.
    Click to expand...
    Fun Fact: NFL football played roughly 50% of its existence before the Super Bowl.

    This is why it's so hard to create a Greatest. One, we bias ourselves to recent memory. Two both the rules, and players have changed over the years.

    Yup. Big fast lineman now.
    Trying playing a the game with 1950s medicine and travel.

    OK Jim brown could barely rush for 1000 yards in today's game. But isn't he Like 80?

    Also poor Gayle Sayers and his knees. He coulda been Barry Sanders 20 years later.

    Not saying old football is better, just its tough to make an apples to apples comparison, and there would some good players back then.

    Otto Ghraham never won a superb bowl. He did play in 10 straight championships and retired 6 years before SB1
     
    101st said:
    Haters gonna hate. Post deflatgate. Under a microscope Brady wins 3 more Super Bowl's two with the Pat's and another with the Buc's. As far as putting Brady on a average team. The Buc's were 7 and 9 the year before Brady came on board and took them to the Super Bowl and won! His 1st year with a losing team and he brings them to a Super Bowl and they win! Yeah he really sucks! 🤣
    Click to expand...

    I'm glad you and I agree. Brady sucks!
     
    BullGear said:
    What did Brady do for the game? How many rules were changed or adopted to make him what he was? He may be considered the GOAT but let's take back some of the game decisions made outside of his control. Just a simple one, the tuck rule. How blatant could the referees be? How much did they bend over backwards to allow the Patriots to win that game. What about deflategate? Where were the suspensions? What about the video taping of an opponent's practice? All this a a bunch more led to Brady being considered the GOAT at quarterback.

    Look at him now. He misses receivers by yards, when he should have scrambled out of the pocket, he throws the ball into the ground. Give him an average team to play on and the GOAT doesn't look all that great.
    Click to expand...

    Tuck rule was called correctly...blame the rule not the player. Deflategate was scientifically proven to be false. They were caught video taping from the the wrong area, video taping was not illegal.

    You don't luck into 10 superbowls. Look at him now? He's 45 damn years old lol and last year he was one of the best QBs in the league stat wise.

    Put down the pipe.
     
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    101st said:
    Bellicheck is a good coach period. He had a great quarterback thus the Super Bowl record.
    Click to expand...

    How did he do as a head coach without Brady?

    Bill is a great defensive coordinator....not so sure about head coach.
     
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    Maggot said:
    I know, pro sports suck, blah, blah.

    But we generally accept Tom Brady as the GOAT as quarterbacks go. Would he have been as good with out Rob Gronkowski. In the couple seasons he didnt have the Gronk he was strictly good, not great.

    Part of what makes me wonder is looking back at the one I'd call #2, Joe Montana. Would he have been as good without Jerry Rice? Rice was likely one of the great athletes of all time, any sport.

    Disgustcuss.
    Click to expand...
    Jerry Rice did his job every game like a normal human that had glue on his hands !!!
     
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    Drew Bress has similar numbers. But the saints are cursed (and Brees doesn't play defense).

    Speaking of which darkhorse GOAT: ARchie Manning. ANyone who plays that long on a team that bad deserves it.

    BTW Bart Star has 6 championships and two threepeats. Suck it Brady.
     
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    DocRDS said:
    Drew Bress has similar numbers. But the saints are cursed (and Brees doesn't play defense).

    Speaking of which darkhorse GOAT: ARchie Manning. ANyone who plays that long on a team that bad deserves it.

    BTW Bart Star has 6 championships and two threepeats. Suck it Brady.
    Click to expand...
    In the days of your picks players played with one team unless they sucked. GB had most of the same players for the 6 championships. Archie M got his revenge with both of his sons. Peyton was able to beat Brady to go to both of his SD wins and Eli Beat Brady both times. I'm a pats fan by choice I feel that Brady has done things that Montana and the rest have not. Gronk should make the HOF and Moss did but they only played a season and a half. There isn't another that's a shoe in. P Manning had 2 HOF WR's once Reggie Wayne is eligible. He also had high quality TE's in Clark and Pollard. The Tyree catch as much as it sucked for Pats fans was incredible with that great defense they prevailed.
    28-3 is my arguement
     
    DocRDS said:
    Drew Bress has similar numbers. But the saints are cursed (and Brees doesn't play defense).

    Speaking of which darkhorse GOAT: ARchie Manning. ANyone who plays that long on a team that bad deserves it.

    BTW Bart Star has 6 championships and two threepeats. Suck it Brady.
    Click to expand...

    Only two superbowls....Brady wins.
     
    I'm an old Steeler and Cowboy fan and will say I respect Brady. However I remember back when Bradshaw and the Steelers were the "dynasty" if you will and the league started putting in a lot of the rules protecting the Q-back, Bradshaw basically said fuck that, I'm a football player just like all the rest of the team. I've always respected him for that stance. He was/is a tough hombre and I wish him well in his health fight he's going through.
     
    tomcatmv said:
    I'm an old Steeler and Cowboy fan and will say I respect Brady. However I remember back when Bradshaw and the Steelers were the "dynasty" if you will and the league started putting in a lot of the rules protecting the Q-back, Bradshaw basically said fuck that, I'm a football player just like all the rest of the team. I've always respected him for that stance. He was/is a tough hombre and I wish him well in his health fight he's going through.
    Click to expand...
    Thats cool.

    Want to hear another one to respect, and this may be even more rare.

    Virginia won the basketball National Championship a couple years back. They offered the head coach Tony Bennett a large raise. He said "I'll pass, I've got more than enough and I'd like some of the other coaches and staff to get a raise." IMHO thats a righteous man.
     
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    all I know is Tom Brady is dead in our house for working with Hanoi Jane. He can fking die for all we care now
     
    Hecouldgoalltheway said:
    College is way better. In college everyone is hungry and trying to get to the next level. NFL players are largely focused on avoiding injuries and padding their own stats. There's no comparison.
    Click to expand...
    Everybody is hungry because they are broke ass kids who have to be careful not to get anyhitng of worth given to them while the NCAA rakes in millions off them fuckng up their bodies hoping they are the 1 in 100 that makes it.

    At least the NFL pays their players.

    Nobody who plays under todays rules deserves to be mentioned VS people who played before many of the rule changes. There will never be a GOAt because it is not the same game they are playing now.
     
    AngryKoala said:
    Tuck rule was called correctly...blame the rule not the player. Deflategate was scientifically proven to be false. They were caught video taping from the the wrong area, video taping was not illegal.

    You don't luck into 10 superbowls. Look at him now? He's 45 damn years old lol and last year he was one of the best QBs in the league stat wise.

    Put down the pipe.
    Click to expand...
    He was scientifically proven to be playing with a ball inflated below the minimum standard. You make all the excuses you want they were caught cheating multiple times. Probably the only times they cheated they got caught though...
     
    supercorndogs said:
    He was scientifically proven to be playing with a ball inflated below the minimum standard. You make all the excuses you want they were caught cheating multiple times. Probably the only times they cheated they got caught though...
    Click to expand...

    Incorrect and might want to look into the history of the engineering firm that did the study. Pv=nrt, factor in the deviation of the pressure gauge and the equilibrium time and poof...no cheating....not difficult.

    Spygate, was blown way out of proportion unless there was some unreleased evidence that was destroyed but what they presented was a joke.
     
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