Tonight, around 10 pm my son jumped the back gate and was attempting to enter through the back dog door. I was washing dishes and saw someone in black clothing in a crouching posture just outside my back door. I drew my handgun and pointed it at the door and yelled "stop, stop, stop." He immediately responded with our challenge response leaving me very angry he did not call me or ring the door bell. He is 15 years old and just returned from a trip to California with my parents. Crisis averted.
- Thread starter Ryguy
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Or don't shoot anything you don't have PID of. People can forget passwords, but it is the shooters responsibility to ID the threat as a threat before squeezing the trigger. If you would have shot, it wouldn't be your sons fault he forgot to say the password, it would be yours for squeezing the trigger.
Isn't a running password used as an identification tool? To fire without PID is just silly, but it does happen. Now, in the dark, noise at night, without corrective lenses the password becomes paramount to safety. We were taught that forgetting the password could be lethal on the drop zone. When trained to standard, which my family has, it becomes a very valuable tool.
Only difference is that you weren't on a DZ with one of your Joes, you were drawing down on your son in your kitchen.
Sadly a lot of people don't have training, so they read your comment and think, hey, that's a high speed idea, my family needs a running password. I stated the PID part so those who don't understand that portion of an engagement don't ventilate their son, while he is sneaking back into the house after smoking a joint, and for some reason forgot all that high speed Army training his dad went over one early Saturday morning.
I'm glad you understand PID.
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Sell your firearm and get a airsoft.
I don't know the laws where you live but I can't shoot a stranger for just kneeling in dark clothes on my back porch, regardless of what time of the day it is or what they are up to if my life isn't in eminent danger.
In Idaho I think it is legal......but you are required to drag the body inside the house and shoot them a couple more times as well and then break a window to show forced entry. LOL
Exactly. There was an unidentified person outside of my back door. Why would I have expected my son to be there when he has a key (that he forgot), and why would he not just call me, or ring the doorbell? The password immediately diffused the situation. I didn't even have to decide anything further. Trigger finger still straight, safety still on. Also, go on youtube or live leak and look at some of the shootings. They happen very fast with a very thin margin of time to decide. Self defense is a dynamic art in that, we have to use every tool at our disposal to decide what action to take. This thread has shown me why so many people both, become victims and harm their family members. Firearms are far from an end all, be all. Your thinking and calm demeanor is the weapon.
I don't know why your son didn't call, sounds like he isn't trained to standard as you suggest.
Lets take a look at rule number 2 of weapon safety; never point a firearm at anything you are not willing to destroy. You heard and saw something, and decided to skip PID and place your sights on an unidentified target, you were not willing to destroy. You can tell yourself you did the right thing all day, I disagree. There are multiple cases right now where people didn't get PID and waxed someone they assumed was a threat before really making sure, like Renisha McBride. What would have happened if your son had his head phones in and didn't hear your challenge? But hey, this is the internet and my opinion really doesn't matter, you do you.
It sounds like you do have training, and do understand PID, chances seem pretty good that even if your son didn't respond with the correct password to your challenge, he would have lived. Sadly there are numerous stories where it is the latter.
And just to correct something, you use a challenge and password, not a running password. A running password is when you are approaching friendly lines under duress or being actively engaged, and don't have time to conduct a proper link up or passage of friendly lines. If you had a running password, your son would have been screaming the password as he was approaching your house until he was inside and on the other side of friendly lines.
Anyways, cheers on trying to keep your family safe and doing what you think is best for them.
Lets take a look at rule number 2 of weapon safety; never point a firearm at anything you are not willing to destroy. You heard and saw something, and decided to skip PID and place your sights on an unidentified target, you were not willing to destroy. You can tell yourself you did the right thing all day, I disagree. There are multiple cases right now where people didn't get PID and waxed someone they assumed was a threat before really making sure, like Renisha McBride. What would have happened if your son had his head phones in and didn't hear your challenge? But hey, this is the internet and my opinion really doesn't matter, you do you.
It sounds like you do have training, and do understand PID, chances seem pretty good that even if your son didn't respond with the correct password to your challenge, he would have lived. Sadly there are numerous stories where it is the latter.
And just to correct something, you use a challenge and password, not a running password. A running password is when you are approaching friendly lines under duress or being actively engaged, and don't have time to conduct a proper link up or passage of friendly lines. If you had a running password, your son would have been screaming the password as he was approaching your house until he was inside and on the other side of friendly lines.
Anyways, cheers on trying to keep your family safe and doing what you think is best for them.
Three years ago I was staying with my son and was joking with his girlfriend about the pass word was John has a long Moosestache. My son is a paramedic and a few days later he got off early and didn't tell his girlfriend. She starts screaming and hollering for me that someone was breaking in.
I had my 45 and was heading down the hallway when I start hearing Dad John has a long Moosetache John has a long Moosestache. It was then WTF are you doing and he then said he wanted to surprise her by coming home early.
What was a joke defused a tense situation.
I had my 45 and was heading down the hallway when I start hearing Dad John has a long Moosetache John has a long Moosestache. It was then WTF are you doing and he then said he wanted to surprise her by coming home early.
What was a joke defused a tense situation.
You're suppose to be his father for fucks sakes! If he's having to sneak into his own house, there's obviously more problems going on and why doesn't he already have a key for his own house? He's 15! If you feel he's responsible enough to be roaming the streets at 2200, then don't you think he's responsible enough to have his own key?
He forgot his key. And he was not roaming the streets rather, just arrived home from California with my parents. I may or may not have done the right thing; all I knew is that there was an unexpected person on my back porch. The assumption that I was anywhere near firing is a huge leap. It is nice to see, as usual, people on the hide are full of faulty assumptions, over generalizations, and logical flaws.
Why would you shoot without positive ID? Every gun that is more than a "range gun" has a light on it in our home. Surefires on the shotgun, AR, and both my wife and my pistol. Shooting blindly into the dark like an asshole is what gets innocent people shot, and gives us all (gun owners) a bad name.
Just make sure it isnt, 'dont shoot!'.
We can only go by what you posted in your OP. We may have lots of talents at this site, but mind reading isn't one of them. You didn't mention he forgot his key. Also, I just find it odd that he would have to sneak into his own house in the manner he did. I can understand if it was after curfew and he was drinking with his buddies and needed to sneak in to avoid being caught drunk or past curfew, but why would he feel the need to sneak in when there was no reason to sneak in whatsoever? Also, if he didn't call, why wouldn't your parents call to tell you they have brought him back?
good job, a challenge and password is ideal for every family. Hell, when i have the kids out in the yard every morning for stand to these things come in vital as I'm lowcrawling around the perimeter from child to child making spot checks and keeping up morale. It's also a good idea to have ellaborate number sequence combinations, if the unkown shadow in the bushes doesnt say the correct number sequence blast away(numerous flower pots have been deterred this way) another thing to do is if using challenge an passwords is select words that are hard for foreigners to say correctly just encase they have breached your intel network. bravo sir
Bunch of know it alls preaching to a person who successfully did not shoot his son. Each part of gun safety is a notch, a step which if followed ensures that unintended consequences do not happen. You break one you still do good, you break two probably still ok, you brake them all or just enough stack up bad things happen. "Running password" is another notch, a step which ADDS not removes safety because we not only cannot read minds we also cannot predict future and other peoples action. Asking afterwards "Oh, my, why didn't you simply rang a bell son?" helps no one as parent is devastated and son either injured or worse yet dead. I won't pretend to know what security situation in US really is and to what extent paranoia rules the lives of many but what i think this post meant is to give 1st hand experience on using another step in gun/home defense safety period. Take it as such no more no less.
I say good job Ryguy. I used to climb on top of our porch and into my upstairs window to keep from from knocking if the door was locked and I didn't have a key. Why? Because I was 16 or 17 and stupid. Dad said he never did shoot me because he knew of only one dumbass that would climb up the porch. Hahaha
As far as your plan it worked. You pointed your gun at him.. I'm sure it taught him a valuable lesson that talking won't accomplish. You didn't shoot him because he wasn't a threat, only a possible threat. Good job at having a plan, executing it, and not shooting your son.
As far as your plan it worked. You pointed your gun at him.. I'm sure it taught him a valuable lesson that talking won't accomplish. You didn't shoot him because he wasn't a threat, only a possible threat. Good job at having a plan, executing it, and not shooting your son.
Until he establishes a challenge/pass and the drunk son forgets it. That ADDS (I hate people who use all caps) false sense of security which can fail and lead to tragedy. How about, you positively ID your target, you know, like is one of the key weapon safety rules. As for the main 4 "treat, never, keep, be"
It only takes 2 violations to result in an ND.
I'm with VJJ on this one, and I would mock how stupid this idea is, but I think he did a thorough enough job to not warrant excessive Iphone typing.
Why didn't your son just knock on the front door instead of jumping the back fence and trying to come in the doggy door?
I bought a bunch of these to save money and have an idea if anyone was snooping around my place in the dark.
They work pretty well.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0..._m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1Y17CJMF7D5HE94WM22D
They work pretty well.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0..._m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1Y17CJMF7D5HE94WM22D
Epic thread...
When I want to deter non-family members and wild animals from entering the premises unannounced, I just turn the lights on.
When I want to deter non-family members and wild animals from entering the premises unannounced, I just turn the lights on.
The importance of a family running password.
We don't have a password. But I did come home unannounced late one night.
In the darkness I heard my wife's voice: "Martin, is that you?"
I replied "Who the fuck is Martin?!!!"
She replied "I figured it was you, but I was just making sure."
... Probably a good thing that I didn't answer in the affirmative.
We don't have a password. But I did come home unannounced late one night.
In the darkness I heard my wife's voice: "Martin, is that you?"
I replied "Who the fuck is Martin?!!!"
She replied "I figured it was you, but I was just making sure."
... Probably a good thing that I didn't answer in the affirmative.
Well, you know what they say. Guns don't kill people...husbands who come home early kill people.
True fact: running password in the Manning house was "Omaha"
One night we were awoken to the sound of the garage door opening, then the entry door being opened. As the cocking bolt of my M14 rang out in the house, the ,"HOLY SHIT DAD IT'S ME!" was even louder. No1 Son had come home for the weekend and not told anyone. Running password my ass. If you know your family's voices, not necessary.
In any case where entry is compromised in the night, the dog will be the first alarm to a stranger. I think after Bulleit gets done with them, we might get some weakend leftovers.
Anyone else knows to stay down, and if they hear ME go to ground for war(I'll yell 'get down' and move out smartly, they know to get on the ground, lock and load, and wait for me to call for either all clear, or back up
In any case where entry is compromised in the night, the dog will be the first alarm to a stranger. I think after Bulleit gets done with them, we might get some weakend leftovers.
Anyone else knows to stay down, and if they hear ME go to ground for war(I'll yell 'get down' and move out smartly, they know to get on the ground, lock and load, and wait for me to call for either all clear, or back up
That's what I was thinking?
skip the gay security lights, put out claymores...
VJJ and I are tracking, but the truly funny part is that it is not mockery... Security is the 1st priority of work...
Challenge and Password - good on ya... and don't think that my family doesn't have a running password as well... never know when exfil off of the golf course will result in a hot extraction and rapid passage of friendly lines...
VJJ and I are tracking, but the truly funny part is that it is not mockery... Security is the 1st priority of work...
Challenge and Password - good on ya... and don't think that my family doesn't have a running password as well... never know when exfil off of the golf course will result in a hot extraction and rapid passage of friendly lines...
In most states, someone breaking in after hours is justification for deadly force. The assumtion is the only thing they could be there for is to commit a felony (Burglary as a primary) which deadly force is authorized. This is common law.
I don't begrudge the OP, anything can happen. I am glad you didn't shoot him. At the same time, waiting to be absolutley sure somoene is breaking in is a good way to lose advantage and end up dead. You should beat the shit out of your son for being such an idiot. He needs corrective training.
Its a thin line every person needs to think about and be prepared.
Darwin at work.
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