• Watch Out for Scammers!

    We've now added a color code for all accounts. Orange accounts are new members, Blue are full members, and Green are Supporters. If you get a message about a sale from an orange account, make sure you pay attention before sending any money!

  • Site updates coming next Wednesday at 8am CT!

    The site will be down for routine maintenance on Wednesday 6/5 starting at 8am CT. If you have any questions, please PM alexj-12!

The Municipal Debt Bomb is Ticking: When Will It E

Re: The Municipal Debt Bomb is Ticking: When Will It E

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Phil1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The US debt will need attention and will require some pain. But it's not a crisis.</div></div>

If that's true, what do you do with this:
<span style="font-style: italic">
January 6, 2011

The Honorable Harry Reid
Majority Leader
United States Senate
Washington, DC 20510

Dear Mr. Leader:

I am writing in response to your request for an estimate by the Treasury Department of when the statutory debt limit will be reached, and for a description of the consequences of default by the United States.

Never in our history has Congress failed to increase the debt limit when necessary. Failure to raise the limit would precipitate a default by the United States. Default would effectively impose a significant and long-lasting tax on all Americans and all American businesses and could lead to the loss of millions of American jobs. Even a very short-term or limited default would have catastrophic economic consequences that would last for decades. Failure to increase the limit would be deeply irresponsible. For these reasons, I am requesting that Congress act to increase the limit early this year, well before the threat of default becomes imminent.

As you know, in February of 2010 Congress passed legislation to increase the debt limit to $14.29 trillion. As of this writing, the outstanding debt that is subject to the limit stands at $13.95 trillion, leaving approximately $335 billion of “headroom” beneath the current limit. Because of the inherent uncertainty associated with tax receipts and refunds during the spring tax filing season, as well as other variable factors, it is not possible at this point to predict with precision the date by which the debt limit will be reached. However, the Treasury Department now estimates that the debt limit will be reached as early as March 31, 2011, and most likely sometime between that date and May 16, 2011. This estimate is subject to change depending on the performance of the economy, government receipts, and other factors. This means it is necessary for Congress to act by the end of the first quarter of 2011.

At several points in past years, Treasury has taken exceptional actions to delay the date by which the limit was reached in order to give Congress additional time to raise the limit. These extraordinary actions include: suspending sales of State and Local Government Series (SLGS) Treasury securities[1]; suspending reinvestment of the Government Securities Investment Fund (G-Fund)[2]; suspending reinvestment of the Exchange Stabilization Fund (ESF)[3]; and determining that a “debt issuance suspension period” exists, permitting redemption of existing, and suspension of new, investments of the Civil Service Retirement and Disability Fund (CSRDF)[4]. Treasury would prefer not to have to engage again in any of these extraordinary measures. If we are forced to do so again, these measures could delay the date by which the limit is reached by several weeks. Once these steps have been taken, no remaining legal and prudent measures would be available to create additional headroom under the debt limit, and the United States would begin to default on its obligations.

As discussed in greater detail below, raising the debt limit is necessary to allow the Treasury to meet obligations of the United States that have been established, authorized, and appropriated by the Congress. It is important to emphasize that changing the debt limit does not alter or increase the obligations we have as a nation; it simply permits the Treasury to fund those obligations Congress has already established.

In fact, even if Congress were immediately to adopt the deep cuts in discretionary spending of the magnitude suggested by some Members of Congress, such as reverting to Fiscal Year 2008 spending levels, the need to increase the debt limit would be delayed by no more than two weeks. The limit would still need to be raised to make it possible for the government to avoid default and to meet the other obligations established by Congress.

The national debt is the total amount of money borrowed in order to fulfill the requirements imposed by past Congresses and under past presidencies, during periods when both Republicans and Democrats were in control of different branches of government. These are legal obligations, incurred under the laws of the United States. Responsibility for creating the debt is bipartisan, and responsibility for meeting the Nation’s obligations must be shared by both parties.

As the 112th Congress turns to this issue, I want to stress that President Obama believes strongly in the need to restore balance to our fiscal position, and he is committed to working with both parties to put the Nation on a fiscally responsible path. This will require difficult choices and a comprehensive approach to reduce the gap between our commitments and our resources. It will require that the government spend less and spend more wisely. The President has already taken important steps, including enacting the savings in the Affordable Care Act; restoring Pay-As-You-Go budgeting; and undertaking a three-year freeze on non-security discretionary spending. The President’s proposals would put us on a path to cut the deficit by more than half in the medium term, and substantially reduce the rate of growth in federal health care costs in the long term. The President looks forward to working with Members of the 112th Congress on additional measures to address our medium- and long-term fiscal challenges.

Because Congress has always acted to increase the debt limit when necessary, and because failure to do so would be harmful to the interests of every American, I am confident that Congress will act in a timely manner to increase the limit this year. However, for the benefit of Members of Congress and the public, I want to make clear, for the record, what the implications of a default would be so there can be no misunderstanding when the issue is debated in the House and Senate.

Reaching the debt limit would mean the Treasury would be prevented by law from borrowing in order to pay obligations the Nation is legally required to pay, an event that has no precedent in American history. Such a default should be understood as distinct from a temporary government shutdown resulting from failure to enact appropriations bills, which occurred in late 1995 and early 1996. Those government shutdowns, which were unwise and highly disruptive, did not have the same long-term negative impact on U.S. creditworthiness as a default would, because there was headroom available under the debt limit at that time.

I am certain you will agree that it is strongly in our national interest for Congress to act well before the debt limit is reached. However, if Congress were to fail to act, the specific consequences would be as follows:

*
The Treasury would be forced to default on legal obligations of the United States, causing <span style="font-weight: bold">catastrophic damage to the economy, potentially much more harmful than the effects of the financial crisis of 2008 and 2009</span>.
*
A default would impose a substantial tax on all Americans. Because Treasuries represent the benchmark borrowing rate for all other sectors, default would raise all borrowing costs. Interest rates for state and local government, corporate and consumer borrowing, including home mortgage interest, would all rise sharply. Equity prices and home values would decline, reducing retirement savings and hurting the economic security of all Americans, leading to reductions in spending and investment, which would cause job losses and business failures on a significant scale.
*
Default would have prolonged and far-reaching negative consequences on the safe-haven status of Treasuries and the dollar’s dominant role in the international financial system, causing further increases in interest rates and reducing the willingness of investors here and around the world to invest in the United States.
*
Payments on a broad range of benefits and other U.S. obligations would be discontinued, limited, or adversely affected, including:
o
U.S. military salaries and retirement benefits;
o
Social Security and Medicare benefits;
o
veterans’ benefits;
o
federal civil service salaries and retirement benefits;
o
individual and corporate tax refunds;
o
unemployment benefits to states;
o
defense vendor payments;
o
interest and principal payments on Treasury bonds and other securities;
o
student loan payments;
o
Medicaid payments to states; and
o
payments necessary to keep government facilities open.

For these reasons, any default on the legal debt obligations of the United States is unthinkable and must be avoided. It is critically important that Congress act before the debt limit is reached so that the full faith and credit of the United States is not called into question. The confidence of citizens and investors here and around the world that the United States stands fully behind its legal obligations is a unique national asset. Throughout our history, that confidence has made U.S. government bonds among the best and safest investments available and has allowed us to borrow at very low rates.

Failure to increase the debt limit in a timely manner would threaten this position and compromise America’s creditworthiness in the eyes of the world. Every Secretary of the Treasury in the modern era, regardless of party, has strongly held this view. Given the gravity of the challenges facing the U.S. and world economies, the world’s confidence in our creditworthiness is even more critical today.

I hope this information is responsive to your request and will be helpful as Congress considers this important legislation.

Sincerely,

Timothy F. Geithner



cc: The Honorable John A. Boehner, Speaker of the House
The Honorable Nancy Pelosi, House Minority Leader
The Honorable Mitch McConnell, Senate Minority Leader
The Honorable Dave Camp, Chairman, House Committee on Ways and Means
The Honorable Sander M. Levin, Ranking Member, House Committee on Ways and Means
The Honorable Max Baucus, Chairman, Senate Committee on Finance
The Honorable Orrin Hatch, Ranking Member, Senate Committee on Finance
All other Members of 112th Congress


[1] SLGS are special purpose Treasury securities issued to state and local government entities that have cash proceeds to invest from their issuance of tax exempt bonds. There is no statutory or other requirement that Treasury issue SLGS, so Treasury may suspend SLGS sales during a debt limit impasse.
[2] The G-Fund is a money-market-like defined-contribution retirement fund for federal employees. Amounts in the G-Fund are invested in non-marketable Treasury securities, and the entire balance of the fund matures daily. Treasury has authority to suspend reinvestment of all or part of the balance of the G-Fund when the Secretary determines that the fund cannot be fully invested without exceeding the debt limit.
[3] The ESF is used by Treasury to purchase or sell foreign currencies. The dollar-denominated holdings of the ESF are invested in non-marketable Treasury securities, and the entire balance of the dollar-denominated investments matures daily. There is no requirement to keep the dollar balances of the ESF invested.
[4] The CSRDF is a government fund that holds and invests in nonmarketable Treasury securities to provide defined benefits to retired federal employees. Treasury has authority to redeem existing CSRDF investments and suspend new investments when the Secretary determines that the fund cannot be fully invested without exceeding the debt limit. </span>

http://www.treasury.gov/connect/blog/Pages/letter.aspx
 
Re: The Municipal Debt Bomb is Ticking: When Will It E

What is missed when considering the current federal and US state deficits is that it must be considered in relation to the total economy. Thats why comparing the DEBT to GDP ratio is the best way to consider it.Together with deficit to GDP. The US has by far the worlds largest economy. Many states surpass G8 countries.
1. California has a bigger economy than Italy.
2. Texas has a bigger economy than Russia.
3. Massachusetts is bigger than Saudi Arabia.
http://www.economist.com/blogs/dailychart/2011/01/comparing_us_states_countries


Yes there are unfunded liabilities owed by the Fed. as well as US states. But every other country in the world has unfunded liabilities.

I wouldn't say that its not an important issue. But it's not something that I'd lose sleep over.
 
Re: The Municipal Debt Bomb is Ticking: When Will It E

All of the liabilities are owned by the Fed. Every single transaction that takes place with US Federal Reserve notes is a liability to the Federal Reserve System. This goes back to maritime law and how a promissory is viewed under said law. It's viewed this way, because that's where the concept of the Promissory came from. When the US default's, it will owe it's debt to the Federal Reserve Bank's and to the foreign nation's that bought T-bill's. It's no longer a matter of IF. The people in Washington are still spending, and they have shown no reasonable solution to fixing the problem. They want to raise the debt ceiling once again. Anyone that follows commodities already knows what this will do.

The size of the economy does not matter. I can't understand why people can't seem to grasp this concept. The size doesn't matter. When you default on you house payment, no matter how large and the market valuation of that house, they still come and take it from you. It's the same with a Government, only on a vastly larger scale. The Federal Government has been taking out loan's on the credit of the People. Not on some notion that they will be able to pay it back.

It's like you co-signing for a loan for some dead-beat that never actually works, and then obviously he default's. Guess who they are coming to ask for the money from? If they can't get the money, they will demand something they deem of equal value. In the US, we have land. Lot's of land, and especially growing land in the west that is being taken by the threat of force under the auspice of Eminent Domain. I'm not saying that will happen. I'm stating honestly, it's a possibility.

On the articles from the Economist. It's best not to take the information about the economy from the very same people that set it up this way. It's currently owned by Pearson PLC. Take at look at who is on the board at Pearson PLC. You might understand why so many people don't trust them. All of you really should make it a habit to check your sources before you accepting them as a rule.

I know some of you have served in the Military, and even fought in conflict's while in. You obviously should know better than to assume that everyone is polite goodhearted, and generally want's to get along with you.


We can bat this debate back and forth all day. I've read about this issue for almost as long as I've been able to vote. The number's are not getting any better.
 
Re: The Municipal Debt Bomb is Ticking: When Will It E

The latest numbers:

Fed%20Balance%20Sheet%201.28.jpg


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Texagator</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Who in this thread has any formal training, education, or real-world experience in macroeconomics, microeconomics, price theory, debt service coverage, local government management, public administration, or public affairs? Seriously...who? </div></div>
I know a little but honestly, it has never mattered less.

This Fed is actively managing the world economy but is doing so in uncharted waters.
 
Re: The Municipal Debt Bomb is Ticking: When Will It E

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nidstyles</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

We can bat this debate back and forth all day. I've read about this issue for almost as long as I've been able to vote. The number's are not getting any better. </div></div>

That is a great take away and it also gives an insight as to why people do not pay attention to it any longer. It has been debated back and forth, it does keep getting worse, and yet some how the house of cards just keeps getting bigger. Yet since it carries on and there are plenty of bread and circuses for the masses, the masses just go to sleep.

The other thing that people fail to connect the dots on is world discord due to the FED. Since we are the world's reserve standard, if you are a foreigner and want to buy oil for instance, you need to buy it in dollars. So effectively your currency is converted to dollars and then converted to bbls of oil. Values of other currencies are gauged against the dollar. Now, when the US decides they want to buy something NOW that they can not pay for at present, the government simply prints the money (deficit spending)- thereby reducing the current purchasing power of a dollar. In reality the US is actually reducing the purchasing power of not just the dollar, but of all other currencies in the world by extension.

Since wages lag in comparison to prices, when you have very little money - any inflation can throw your personal economy completely into the toilet. When Americans hear this they put it in the context of American lifestyles. Americans fail to understand that the inhabitants of around half of the nations on the planet live on less than $10.00 a DAY. Americans are perpetually baffled why 1/2 of the world would like to feed each one of us feet first into a wood chipper too. Yet, every green peace, earth first, minority needs, special interest, end world hunger dumbass wants that printing press running.

It ain't a mystery and if America didn't have the attention span of a gnat, and wasn't as willfully ignorant as they are - it wouldn't be the situation.

Good luck
 
Re: The Municipal Debt Bomb is Ticking: When Will It E

Mo_Zam_Beek is 100% correct, we are exporting inflation to the rest of the world.

Keep an eye on the emerging market economies... Tunisia and Egypt are probably just the beginning.
 
Re: The Municipal Debt Bomb is Ticking: When Will It E

There is indeed a buying opportunity in Muni bonds, but they are not for everyone.

First off, you need to buy with the idea of getting a modest interest rate, 5-6% for long term bonds these days. Those rates aren't really good for young folks who want to grow their money, but it is pretty decent if you have 4 million bucks and want a relatively safe $200,000 a year tax free. Higher yielding bonds carry higher risk, to me the extra little bit isn't worth the risk.

Second, only buy to hold until maturity. Interest rates are so low now that they realistically can only go up. If rates go up and you sell your bond, you will lose principal. Do not invest any money you might reasonably expect to need before the bond matures.

Third, do some homework. Do not rely solely on rating agencies. Do not rely only on insured bonds (as all but one muni insurer are close to insolvency). There are muni bond bargains out there if you are willing to look.

Remember the tax free part. Even though 5-6% isn't sexy, the tax equivalent yield of 8-9% or so isn't too shabby, and has beaten the stock market performance for large periods of time in the past. Tax advantages are even more if you live in a State with an income tax and buy bonds from within that State that are exempt from State taxes.

Another nice benefit is the "Going Galt" aspect of tax free munis. Those who have worked very hard to accumulate some wealth know all too well the burden of taxes while constantly being told how "lucky" they are. There is personal satisfaction in getting an interest check knowing you have to pay exactly nothing to the .gov in taxes.

I think there will be some defaults, but expect the vast majority of bonds to be paid, nothing is risk free.