Re: The NEW Seekins SP10 6.5 CM Range Report
04/10/2016
Try it without the catcher, I'll bet it's tossing them quite a ways.
You're getting some swipes, it's probably unlocking early in addition to the excess gas. If you already tuned the block, all you can do is add mass to the reciprocating components to try and slow the cyclic rate and lengthen the dwell time.
A heavyweight buffer will help, I'd suggest one from
heavybuffers.com and get the ultra heavy rifle length buffer. You can also try a Tubb flatware spring and carrier weight system.
That will help with the swipes and dump the brass a few feet out at 5 o'clock
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saf3sh00t3r XFirst Sergeant
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Re: The NEW Seekins SP10 6.5 CM Range Report
04/10/2016
LawnMM wrote:
Try it without the catcher, I'll bet it's tossing them quite a ways.
You're getting some swipes, it's probably unlocking early in addition to the excess gas. If you already tuned the block, all you can do is add mass to the reciprocating components to try and slow the cyclic rate and lengthen the dwell time.
A heavyweight buffer will help, I'd suggest one from
heavybuffers.com and get the ultra heavy rifle length buffer. You can also try a Tubb flatware spring and carrier weight system.
That will help with the swipes and dump the brass a few feet out at 5 o'clock
It didn't seem to me like those marks were much of anything. Pretty light stamps, which I thought seemed normal. I have one of Clint's buffers and rifle length spring that only have about 200 rounds of use.
Will shoot it without the buffer first and see how far and what direction they eject. Then shoot it with it and see how it goes.
I also sent Glen Seekins a message as well, would like to get his thoughts as well.
Thanks for your help LawnMM.
Cheers!
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LawnMM XFirst Sergeant
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Re: The NEW Seekins SP10 6.5 CM Range Report
04/11/2016
Don't get me wrong, it's very common in 6.5 Creedmoor AR10s you see people post about it all the time. Doesn't mean it's not a great rifle.
But...you shouldn't be hucking brass 20 ft at 2 o'clock and the swipes on the case head tends to mean the gun is unlocking early. JP just announced extended length gas system barrels to delay the unlocking process. I think you'll see that become more common as time goes on.
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saf3sh00t3r XFirst Sergeant
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Re: The NEW Seekins SP10 6.5 CM Range Report
04/11/2016
No worries I appreciate the feedback and time.
---------------------------------------------
--- LawnMM wrote:
Don't get me wrong, it's very common in 6.5 Creedmoor AR10s you see people post about it all the time. Doesn't mean it's not a great rifle.
But...you shouldn't be hucking brass 20 ft at 2 o'clock and the swipes on the case head tends to mean the gun is unlocking early. JP just announced extended length gas system barrels to delay the unlocking process. I think you'll see that become more common as time goes on.
---------------------------------------------
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HardcoreVeritasXSergeant
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Re: The NEW Seekins SP10 6.5 CM Range Report
04/11/2016 (2 votes)
LawnMM wrote:
It's probably overgassed, especially suppressed, hence the gouging of the receiver right in front of the extension, I doubt it's tilting.
How far is it throwing the brass, do you have any photos of the case heads and primers?
What are you talking about "right in front of the extension"? That is at the rear of the carrier......about as far from the extension as you can get in the receiver. The BCG is obviously tilting or there is something out of spec on the BCG that cutting into the lower.
The carrier should not be making contact at that point with the lower no matter how much gas it's getting.
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saf3sh00t3r XFirst Sergeant
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Re: The NEW Seekins SP10 6.5 CM Range Report
04/11/2016 Last edited 04/11/2016 by saf3sh00t3r
HardcoreVeritas wrote:
LawnMM wrote:
It's probably overgassed, especially suppressed, hence the gouging of the receiver right in front of the extension, I doubt it's tilting.
How far is it throwing the brass, do you have any photos of the case heads and primers?
What are you talking about "right in front of the extension"? That is at the rear of the carrier......about as far from the extension as you can get in the receiver. The BCG is obviously tilting or there is something out of spec on the BCG that cutting into the lower.
The carrier should not be making contact at that point with the lower no matter how much gas it's getting.
Yup, that is what I thought... I also spoke to someone at Seekins via IM. They just came back from the Texas LE where they shot a rifle with 1000 rounds. That rifle doesn't seem to have this damage.
if you look at that picture, it seems like, its hitting pretty hard and skipping onto the buffer tube.
Anyway, what do I know.
Waiting for Glen to get back to me, I sent a PM.
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bigjake83XFirst Sergeant
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Re: The NEW Seekins SP10 6.5 CM Range Report
04/11/2016
Send it back brother. Sounds like something is out of spec.. shit happens.
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LawnMM XFirst Sergeant
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Re: The NEW Seekins SP10 6.5 CM Range Report
04/11/2016
HardcoreVeritas wrote:
LawnMM wrote:
It's probably overgassed, especially suppressed, hence the gouging of the receiver right in front of the extension, I doubt it's tilting.
How far is it throwing the brass, do you have any photos of the case heads and primers?
What are you talking about "right in front of the extension"? That is at the rear of the carrier......about as far from the extension as you can get in the receiver. The BCG is obviously tilting or there is something out of spec on the BCG that cutting into the lower.
The carrier should not be making contact at that point with the lower no matter how much gas it's getting.
Hey Francis, that thing that screws into the back of the receiver that the buffer goes in...it's often called a receiver "extension" in addition to "buffer tube."
Carrier tilt happens often in piston guns because the carrier is actually being contacted up high on the carrier where the gas key goes on a DI gun, imparting some rotational force and thus carrier tilt. This isn't a piston gun, it's direct impingement. So I think it more likely somethings out of spec and not "obviously tilting."
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glenseekinsXFirst Sergeant
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Re: The NEW Seekins SP10 6.5 CM Range Report
04/11/2016 (1 vote)
I sent ya a pm but I'll post it here as well.
Also, the upper and lower are oxide blasted abd hard anodize. It will smoothen out inside after couple hundred rounds. No diferent than our other receivers.
Here's the pm reply regarding carrier and lower
That's pretty common on our lowers to have a slight rub, not quite as deep as yours but it usually barely wears the coating off on the 308's. We cut ours differently because it's one of the weakest points on the lower so we wanted a radius there instead of a sharp edge. We try to leave as much material there as possible, but oveously need to take a little bit more. Not all rub like yours shows. I can take just a bit more material out and re-coat that area if you like.
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saf3sh00t3r XFirst Sergeant
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The NEW Seekins SP10 6.5 CM Range Report
04/12/2016
glenseekins wrote:
I sent ya a pm but I'll post it here as well.
Also, the upper and lower are oxide blasted abd hard anodize. It will smoothen out inside after couple hundred rounds. No diferent than our other receivers.
Here's the pm reply regarding carrier and lower
That's pretty common on our lowers to have a slight rub, not quite as deep as yours but it usually barely wears the coating off on the 308's. We cut ours differently because it's one of the weakest points on the lower so we wanted a radius there instead of a sharp edge. We try to leave as much material there as possible, but oveously need to take a little bit more. Not all rub like yours shows. I can take just a bit more material out and re-coat that area if you like.
Thanks Glen,
Just FYI, I've gotten some PMs from folks that this is happening to them too another 6.5 and a Gap G2.
In addition, will PM you to get details together for my rifle, I'd like to get this addressed. The rifle was a gift for my wife and the last thing I want is little pieces of aluminum floating around the internals of the rifle.
Thanks again, please look out for the PM.
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glenseekinsXFirst Sergeant
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Re: The NEW Seekins SP10 6.5 CM Range Report
04/12/2016
You bet, I'm traveling until Monday but will get back with you then. It won't continue to rub more once it's happened so nothing will be floating around.
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Gryph8nXFirst Sergeant
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Re: The NEW Seekins SP10 6.5 CM Range Report
04/13/2016
Since this is a new platform and there probably aren't a lot of people using it yet, and others that are looking for reviews before purchasing...I'll comment.
I have been very happy with my SP10 in regards to quality, functionality and accuracy.
It has truly ambi controls for bolt release, catch, safety and mag release. The flat wide bottom of foregrip rail is very stable to shoot off a barricade. The adjustable gas block is easy to use and not strip the nut, which I've had problems with some other systems. KeyMod rather than a proprietary rail is nice. Cycling and extraction has been 100% reliable after adjusting gas block, with relative preserved brass but I am not shooting with a suppressor. The muzzle brake works very well, and is better than the majority of others that I've tried.
Accuracy has been 3/4moa out to 900 yards for me with 130gr Prime ammo.
I have JP, older gen GAP-10, POF, LWRC and Mega platforms and personally like Seekins a lot due to ergonomics, reliability and weight. Other platforms are great, and I'm not saying one is better than the other, I'm just saying Seekins holds it own especially considering it's price and reliability.
Only things that I changed to decrease weight and for my ergonomic preferences are to change to an AXTS Raptor charging handle and a Luth-AR skullaton stock which made the system near perfect for me.
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mark5pt56 XFirst Sergeant
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Re: The NEW Seekins SP10 6.5 CM Range Report
04/14/2016 Last edited 04/14/2016 by mark5pt56
I have an Aero M5 and while it's just a carbine model and runs 100%, I did have the slight(not as bad) BCG striking the rear portion of the receiver. I noticed obviously that the BCG would bottom out while the spring was in full compression. Noting a thread on AR15, I used the quarter trick in the receiver extension to prevent this. I now have a Sprinco Orange spring in it and in absence of the quarters, it doesn't strike the receiver now. The Sprinco Orange has 2-3 more coils than the stock Aero one, why Aero or whoever doesn't account for this is unknown to me.
I should note, I have the stock short .308 buffer and AR carbine extension. You may want to look at Sprinco's offering for the rifle length.
Mark
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saf3sh00t3r XFirst Sergeant
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The NEW Seekins SP10 6.5 CM Range Report
04/14/2016 Last edited 04/14/2016 by saf3sh00t3r
The point here is that this is a brand new rifle. It should not do this to this degree, some yes, but not like this.
As Glen Seekins mentioned it's the extra material left on the lower from a design perspective because it's the weakest part of any lower, he also eluded that it may need to be reduced more in that spot so this doesn't happen moving forward.
The reason ultimately is design, which is the reason the BCG is striking. It should be manageable at manufacturing.
Based on his comment this one will have to be addressed either by me just dealing with it or me sending it to Seekins to shave a bit and re-coat.
There has been comments on this thread about over gassing causing this, it turns out it's not the case.
Lastly, this should not take away from it being a great platform. It's tweaks manufacturers have to do as things get in the field or in consumer hands.
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lennyo3034XFirst Sergeant
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Re: The NEW Seekins SP10 6.5 CM Range Report
04/14/2016
I really regret not jumping on one of these at the DSG price.
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saf3sh00t3r XFirst Sergeant
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Re: The NEW Seekins SP10 6.5 CM Range Report
04/14/2016
lennyo3034 wrote:
I really regret not jumping on one of these at the DSG price.
Deals are coming up on gunbroker at MAP pricing. PM me and will get you in touch with the dealer who helped me.
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CORESHOOTING XSergeant
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Re: The NEW Seekins SP10 6.5 CM Range Report
04/15/2016
PM inbound lennyo3034
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LawnMM XFirst Sergeant
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Re: The NEW Seekins SP10 6.5 CM Range Report
04/15/2016
I'd still add a heavy buffer, the swipes are indicative of early unlocking, it'll run better if you lengthen the dwell time and slow the cyclic rate.
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saf3sh00t3r XFirst Sergeant
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Re: The NEW Seekins SP10 6.5 CM Range Report
04/23/2016 Last edited 04/23/2016 by saf3sh00t3r
LawnMM wrote:
I'd still add a heavy buffer, the swipes are indicative of early unlocking, it'll run better if you lengthen the dwell time and slow the cyclic rate.
Okay, so...Since I had a heavy buffer in my spare parts. I decided to give it a shot, pun intended, and install them.
I happen to first try 100 yd groups and then distance @ 500 as well as 600 yards. Both with the heavy buffer and then with the seekins provided buffer. Interesting results. I shoot suppressed only.
The groups went to complete shit, here is one of 3 groups, after replacing these components. I also could not hit anything consistently at distance. See this next picture for 100 yd.
Once I put it all back with the Seekins factory buffer and spring. The groups came back to this below at 100 yards and I was able to get to 1000 yards easily:
Needless to say, for me the Heavy Buffer made the gun inaccurate. If anyone can try it and let me know that would be great, but my groups opened up something ugly.
NOTE: The groups are starting to get tighter as more rounds make it through the barrel. Have been using 42.3 H4350 with Amax 140gr. I have a bunch of Amax bullets left, so I will not switch to ELD for a while. Lastly, I will be taking the gun apart tomorrow to see if the damage on the lower continues. Glen Seekins has offered to address the issue, but Ive decided to see, as thought/suggested, after some use it will go away or the issue continues. Will post on this tomorrow. Rate now:
glenseekinsXFirst Sergeant
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Re: The NEW Seekins SP10 6.5 CM Range Report
04/25/2016 (1 vote)
The buffer and spring the rifle comes with has been tested quite a bit. The spring isn't what you would normally find and we are controlling the dwell time more with the spring than the buffer (holds it at bolt closed longer). Heavy buffer works well if your over gassed but you can control that by adjusting the gas block. use the adjustable gas block and tune so it just locks back, you'll be set! You'll need to pick if you want suppressed or not and tune for one or the other. Trying to tune it to work well with both doesn't usually work out.
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HoytFlingerXSergeant
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Re: The NEW Seekins SP10 6.5 CM Range Report
04/25/2016 (1 vote)
I think heavy buffers are overrated. A properly gassed rifle and stock buffer and spring is all anyone needs IMO.
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saf3sh00t3r XFirst Sergeant
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Re: The NEW Seekins SP10 6.5 CM Range Report
04/25/2016
HoytFlinger wrote:
I think heavy buffers are overrated. A properly gassed rifle and stock buffer and spring is all anyone needs IMO.
Yeah...Unless you own an LMT LM8MWS, like I do...those dot have a AGB, so the heavy buffer helps a great deal when shooting suppressed. Heavy buffers have a place and application based on certain conditions.
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saf3sh00t3r XFirst Sergeant
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Re: The NEW Seekins SP10 6.5 CM Range Report
04/25/2016
glenseekins wrote:
The buffer and spring the rifle comes with has been tested quite a bit. The spring isn't what you would normally find and we are controlling the dwell time more with the spring than the buffer (holds it at bolt closed longer). Heavy buffer works well if your over gassed but you can control that by adjusting the gas block. use the adjustable gas block and tune so it just locks back, you'll be set! You'll need to pick if you want suppressed or not and tune for one or the other. Trying to tune it to work well with both doesn't usually work out.
Yes, I noticed it is longer than most I had labeled "rifle."
I have tuned the SP10 to my suppressed use, only shoot this gun suppressed. Ive had absolutely no reliability issues at all.
I only did this as a test, figured might as well try it. Sure as hell, the gun didn't work right with the heavy buffer. If it "isn't broke don't fix it."
As you can see on the good group, the gun is getting tighter as more rounds make it down that barrel.
Glen, how many rounds do you think it will take for that gun to break in fully?
Thanks in advance.
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glenseekinsXFirst Sergeant
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Re: The NEW Seekins SP10 6.5 CM Range Report
04/26/2016 Last edited 04/26/2016 by glenseekins
Nice!!
If you used a shorter buffer than what's in there chances are your bcg was hitting the buffer tube pretty hard. That would surly cause accuracy issues.
Usually about 150-200 rds you'll see it tighten up even more. by then it will be butter smoothe too. You'll probly be able to adjust a bit more gas out of it too.
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saf3sh00t3r XFirst Sergeant
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Re: The NEW Seekins SP10 6.5 CM Range Report
04/26/2016 (2 votes)
Actually the buffer was long, the spring was shorter than the provided with the SP10. I'm reaching the 200 mark on the rifle now. My guess within a week or so I will be at 250.
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bigjake83XFirst Sergeant
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Re: The NEW Seekins SP10 6.5 CM Range Report
04/26/2016
Thanks for the Range saf3sh00ter, keep use up to date, and nice shooting...
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Shooting it was pretty good, nice and smooth suppressed and unsuppressed. Once I shot it unsuppressed, immediately changed to suppressed. Adjusting the gas block was pretty easy, I confirmed a stove pipe when adding the suppressor. So make sure you adjust your gas block if you will be shooting suppressed. I use a SilCo Harvester Big Bore Direct thread.
