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The OfFiCiAl fix for LEO’s and ALL their shortcomings

qualified immunity = not what you think..

QA prevents special interests from litigating hypotheticals--ie "rules that were broken"-- when those rules didn't exist in law prior to the litigation.

its not some kind of blanket protection against being a fuck-up or a criminal. Criminal rules exist already and you break those you are done. also you break any established civil law and your are done, no immunity.

It also only means special interests can't use the threat of "litigation" as a means of coercion.

Which makes sense because litigation should be used to redress violations of actual, existing law.

If peole think the law is wrong at time T, they can re-legislate it before the next offense and there is no "immunity" at time T+1.
 
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qualified immunity = not what you think..

QA prevents special interests from litigating hypotheticals--ie "rules that were broken"-- when those rules didn't exist in law prior to the litigation.

its not some kind of blanket protection against being a fuck-up or a criminal. Criminal rules exist already and you break those you are done. also you break any established civil law and your are done, no immunity.

It also only means special interests can't use the threat of "litigation" as a means of coercion.

Which makes sense because litigation should be used to redress violations of actual, existing law.

If peole think the law is wrong at time T, they can re-legislate it before the next offense and there is no "immunity" at time T+1.

 
demotivational-posters-sorry-csi-miami-fans.jpg
 
If you take away qualified immunity then you will increase crime because cops will cease to be proactive. Just look at my state, Commiefornia:

Over the last 30 years police have become less and less proactive to the point most officers don’t do anything other than respond to calls and write traffic tickets. I recently had a conversation with a police officer from a large SoCal town who outright admitted that he doesn’t initiate contact unless he has a 100% slam dunk felony in progress in front of him. It’s not worth it. Why? Because nowadays the first thing out of the criminals mouth is you’re harassing me because I’m a minority. And they do everything to provoke use of force. And use of force is the absolute worst thing you can do.

In my state proactive law enforcement ended 10 years ago and the crime rate skyrocketed.

Proactive policing is bullshit and not the reason crime rate has gone up. You are not being truthful with yourself if you believe that.

qualified immunity = not what you think..

QA prevents special interests from litigating hypotheticals--ie "rules that were broken"-- when those rules didn't exist in law prior to the litigation.

its not some kind of blanket protection against being a fuck-up or a criminal. Criminal rules exist already and you break those you are done. also you break any established civil law and your are done, no immunity.

It also only means special interests can't use the threat of "litigation" as a means of coercion.

Which makes sense because litigation should be used to redress violations of actual, existing law.

If peole think the law is wrong at time T, they can re-legislate it before the next offense and there is no "immunity" at time T+1.
More bullshit. Want proof?
Look up the video on YouTube of the guy with the sign that says God bless our veterans. I won't post the link. You have to want to know the truth.
 
The ends justify the means.... "Do you have anything in the vehicle that I should know about?" No? Can I search? No! Well that gives me probable cause that you are hiding something. I am going to get my dog to do a search. Sound familiar?
Why do you have $5k in cash?
None of your business!
Well, I believe it is drug money so I am taking it.
You can't do that!
Bwaahaha, prove it is not drug money and you can have it back!! Take it up with the courts!!

Just google proactive policing and take a dive into what you are preaching.
What is your basis for saying that? So what is the reason why crime has gone up?
Ask your district attorney's why do they allow low bail or no bail. Ask them why is theft under $900 not a crime?
I'll say that many of the police don't bother with many crimes because it's a waste of time. The da isn't going to prosecute anyway.
Have you been under a rock for the last 15 years?
 
Why do you have $5k in cash?
None of your business!
Well, I believe it is drug money so I am taking it.
You can't do that!
Bwaahaha, prove it is not drug money and you can have it back!! Take it up with the courts!!

Just google proactive policing and take a dive into what you are preaching.

You forgot about them shooting your dog
 
Criminals must be fearful of the general population. The police make sure this isn’t possible. It’s how the state maintains control.

That’s a theory. Here’s reality:

The vast majority of crime is committed by social deviants. The vast majority of social deviants are addicted to drugs. These individuals dress and behave a certain way. A proactive cop can spot them from a mile away and use various proactive policing tools to incarcerate them.

Incarcerated social deviants, having been removed from the community, lower the crime rate. 20 years ago it was pretty easy to lock them up. The vast majority of prison terms were for petty property and drug offenses. These people would be out of commission for 1-2 years at a time. They would then be paroled and back in prison within 90 days. This kept the criminals away from us. The crime rate was low and we were all safer.

Today, the very same offenses that would have sent these people away to prison result in citations. They are misdemeanors and the state won’t prosecute until the offender racks up a bunch or is well off and they can leach him for court and supervision fees.

So now all of these people are out to prey on you without any fear of prosecution. Because even if they are prosecuted the amount of custody time will be short. See all the homeless everywhere? Those people used to have a home in a state facility.

So what does this have to do with proactive policing? Put yourself in the cops position- why risk injury, liability, etc for the satisfaction of cutting someone a worthless ticket? Now when a cop sees a turd skipping down the street he just lets him be. The turd goes on to do his crimes knowing nothing will ever come if it even if he’s caught. And the cycle repeats.

Good people getting caught up are a rare exception. Look up the rate if people being struck by lightning. It’s about the same.
 
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Bwaahaha. Love it. Because I hold them to a standard I get called "hater". Love it.
I wanted to know if you were more than just a cop hater.
Here's a good one to ask... Every cop knows that there are shitbags in his department. Why are there shitbags in the department? Who's not doing anything about it? Can't cross the line and get the cold shoulder from the club?
 
Bwaahaha. Love it. Because I hold them to a standard I get called "hater". Love it.

Here's a good one to ask... Every cop knows that there are shitbags in his department. Why are there shitbags in the department? Who's not doing anything about it? Can't cross the line and get the cold shoulder from the club?

You say it as if it’s the norm. In my experience it’s rare.
 
That’s a theory. Here’s reality:

The vast majority of crime is committed by social deviants. The vast majority of social deviants are addicted to drugs. These individuals dress and behave a certain way. A proactive cop can spot them from a mile away and use various proactive policing tools to incarcerate them.

Incarcerated social deviants, having been removed from the community, lower the crime rate. 20 years ago it was pretty easy to lock them up. The vast majority of prison terms were for petty property and drug offenses. These people would be out of commission for 1-2 years at a time. They would then be paroled and back in prison within 90 days. This kept the criminals away from us. The crime rate was low and we were all safer.

Today, the very same offenses that would have sent these people away to prison result in citations. They are misdemeanors and the state won’t prosecute until the offender racks up a bunch or is well off and they can leach him for court and supervision fees.

So now all of these people are out to prey on you without any fear of prosecution. Because even if they are prosecuted the amount of custody time will be short. See all the homeless everywhere? Those people used to have a home in a state facility.

So what does this have to do with proactive policing? Put yourself in the cops position- why risk injury, liability, etc for the satisfaction of cutting someone a worthless ticket? Now when a cop sees a turd skipping down the street he just lets him be. The turd goes on to do his crimes knowing nothing will ever come if it even if he’s caught. And the cycle repeats.

Good people getting caught up are a rare exception. Look up the rate if people being struck by lightning. It’s about the same.
You say it as if it’s the norm. In my experience it’s rare.
Read my post #50 if you haven’t.

I agree with a lot of what you said as I have said it many times in a different way. The state artificially inflates the criminal population among us just like the examples you gave. This could not be possible without the revolving door of justice it intentionally created. If the police don’t make a safer place, then why do they exist? Think corrupt government controlling its people. Think covid tyranny, think medical tyranny, think child abuse in the school systems, think tax theft, think money laundering, all made possible because of law enforcements violence and threats of against the common man. This is possible regardless of an individual LEO’s thoughts and feelings. Its the institution itself.

I would rather the police be disbanded and/or disempowered so good men can protect their communities from evil men. The state makes this almost impossible and for good reason. Money. Power. Control. If you think the state is corrupt, you can’t give its enforcers a pass as they are what gives the state its power over the people. Monopoly of violence.
 
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I guess the problem is people don't know how to read...

Public officials and peace officers are entitled to qualified immunity unless they knew or reasonably should have known that the action taken within their sphere of official responsibility would violate the constitutional rights of the plaintiff
This immunity is very narrow, it only applies to a "new" reading of the law--one that is novel and has never been actuall been enacted in law--.

In other words, it doesn't allow a predicate lawsuit for a special interest group and an activist judge to create some new law out of thin air.

The purpose of QA is not to allow specific officers to get away with BS, but to keep the special interest lawyers from coercion of the executive branch via BS lawsuits, ie ones seeking to "invent" new rules that were never promulgated prior to the incident...

Ex-post facto laws are illegal under the constitution, and this is a sort of "synthetic" form of ex-post facto legistlation from the bench.

If there is any concern about the law that is exposed, its easy for the legislature and executive to fix in writing. You can make such behaviour illegal for all other people simply by legistlating out of existence. What you cannot do under US law is legislate "from the bench after the fact", which is sort of common sense.

In their review of the case, the Supreme Court held that the officers did not violate any clearly established law. The court explained that the doctrine of qualified immunity shields officers from civil liability as long as the officer “does not violate clearly established statutory or constitutional rights.” The court explained the importance of specificity in rules and precedence because it is often difficult for an officer to determine how the relevant legal doctrine will apply in the specific scenario they are facing.

This is a very narrow type of protection, and while its possible to abuse it, its nor really any kind of blanket protection against being a jackass. The way to fix any propblem with this is to legislate better laws ex ante rather than rely on crappy laws being fixed "after the fact" since we all know how well that goes...

Qualified immunity provides immunity from certain lawsuits raised against government officials acting in their official capacity.
Again these are civil lawsuits that require "new law" be established (by a judge, not a legilature) to make the thing that already happened 'illegal'. Ie since what is being deemed unlawful was never determined, its unkowable, and thus cannot be obeyed by the enforement element at the time the action was being done...

Civilians have to be more conservative in taking risks in the same contex, basically they have to avoid grey areas in a way that any foreseable problem is avoided. QA allows/requires enforement officials to simply follow the letter of the law and/or the letter of existing case law without dealing with the "calculate every possibly foreseable grey area" and steer clear of all possible unowns, etc.

A true criminal element (ie, acting under color or authority of a enforcemnt) can do sketchy BS and be protected by QA, but the inhernt authority of a badge can be abused alot more easily than going through thy types of situation that typically result in/leave one protected by QA.
 
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Read my post #50 if you haven’t.

I agree with a lot of what you said as I have said it many times in a different way. The state artificially inflates the criminal population among us just like the examples you gave. This could not be possible without the revolving door of justice it intentionally created. If the police don’t make a safer place, then why do they exist? Think corrupt government controlling its people. Think covid tyranny, think medical tyranny, think child abuse in the school systems, think tax theft, think money laundering, all made possible because of law enforcements violence and threats of against the common man. This is possible regardless of an individual LEO’s thoughts and feelings. Its the institution itself.

I would rather the police be disbanded and/or disempowered so good men can protect their communities from evil men. The state makes this almost impossible and for good reason. Money. Power. Control. If you think the state is corrupt, you can’t give its enforcers a pass as they are what gives the state its power over the people. Monopoly of violence.

Institutional corruption doesn’t mean the individual cops are corrupt. It means management is corrupt.

The state doesn’t artificially inflate the criminal population. The reason these people were sent to prison was because they were increasing the crime rate. So to get rid of them the state made crimes like Petty Theft with Priors and Possession of Drugs a felony. That was the vehicle to prison. Otherwise these people would have overflowed the jails like you’re seeing now. There is no room in jail so the trickle down effect is reduced incarceration time, rejected criminal filings, and ultimately lack of arrests. These people are out committing crimes while people like you are complaining about institutional corruption and other things nobody cares about. People want criminals in jail. Because when criminals are in jail the crime rate is low. The crime rate will not go down if you make it easy to sue cops individually for every petty shit. It will only go up.

You speak of esoteric principles of population control but the meat and potatoes of everyday life is here in the streets. The government will never revert back to the good old days where you could just grab some of your friends and neighbors and handle shit. And I agree with your sentiment that it is increasingly difficult to protect your family and assets. But I can guarantee you that if we reverted back 20 years and just locked up every shitbag in sight then things would be better.
 
I guess the problem is people don't know how to read...


This immunity is very narrow, it only applies to a "new" reading of the law--one that is novel and has never been actuall been enacted in law--.

In other words, it doesn't allow a predicate lawsuit for a special interest group and an activist judge to create some new bullshit law out of thin air.

The purpose of QA is not to allow specific officers to get away with BS, but to keep the special interest lawyers from coercion of the executive branch via BS lawsuits, ie ones seeking to "invent" new rules that were never promulgated prior to the incident...

Ex-post facto laws are illegal under the constitution, and this is a sort of "synthetic" form of ex-post facto legistlation from the bench.

If there is any concern about the law that is exposed, its easy for the legislature and executive to fix in writing. You can make such behaviour illegal for all other people simply by legistlating out of existence. What you cannot do under US law is legislate "from the bench after the fact", which is sort of common sense.



This is a very narrow type of protection, and while its possible to abuse it, its nor really any kind of blanket protection against being a jackass. The way to fix any propblem with this is to legislate better laws ex ante rather than rely on crappy laws being fixed "after the fact" since we all know how well that goes...


Again these are civil lawsuits that require "new law" be established (by a judge, not a legilature) to make the thing that already happened 'illegal'. Ie since what is being deemed unlawful was never determined, its unkowable, and thus cannot be obeyed by the enforement element at the time the action was being done...

Civilians have to be more conservative in taking risks in the same contex, basically they have to avoid grey areas in a way that any foreseable problem is avoided. QA allows/requires enforement officials to simply follow the letter of the law and/or the letter of existing case law without dealing with the "calculate every possibly foreseable grey area" and steer clear of all possible unowns, etc.

A that true criminal element (ie, acting under color or authority of a enforcemnt) can do sketchy BS and be protected by QA, but the inhernt authority of a badge can be abused alot more easily than going through thy types of situation that typically result in/leave one protected by QA.

The reason I posted this is because you stated incorrectly that if “you break any established civil law and your are done, no immunity.” That is not true in every case. For example, if I’m driving a government car on duty doing my job and accidentally rear end you I get qualified immunity from your personal injury lawsuit. You’ll just have to settle for the deep pockets of the state.
 
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Institutional corruption doesn’t mean the individual cops are corrupt. It means management is corrupt.

The state doesn’t artificially inflate the criminal population. The reason these people were sent to prison was because they were increasing the crime rate. So to get rid of them the state made crimes like Petty Theft with Priors and Possession of Drugs a felony. That was the vehicle to prison. Otherwise these people would have overflowed the jails like you’re seeing now. There is no room in jail so the trickle down effect is reduced incarceration time, rejected criminal filings, and ultimately lack of arrests. These people are out committing crimes while people like you are complaining about institutional corruption and other things nobody cares about. People want criminals in jail. Because when criminals are in jail the crime rate is low. The crime rate will not go down if you make it easy to sue cops individually for every petty shit. It will only go up.

You speak of esoteric principles of population control but the meat and potatoes of everyday life is here in the streets. The government will never revert back to the good old days where you could just grab some of your friends and neighbors and handle shit. And I agree with your sentiment that it is increasingly difficult to protect your family and assets. But I can guarantee you that if we reverted back 20 years and just locked up every shitbag in sight then things would be better.
I don’t think you understood what I said/have been saying. I don’t trust the government. Its evil and disgusting. Therefore I don’t trust cops. They protect and give power to the most evil and disgusting people on the planet. State bad, state enforcers bad. Simple as that. I gave many examples. It has nothing to do with good cop bad cop, but has everything to do with the state of gov’t corruption.

The first sentence of your second paragraph contradicts the rest of it. You said the state doesn’t inflate the number of criminals among us and then you spent the rest of the paragraph explaining how they do. If men didn’t have to worry about arrest and prosecution from the boys in blue and the weoponized and two tier justice system, they would clear their own communities of the scum.

Nobody believes the state can do anything correct or efficiently but for one exception, public safety. Think about that real hard. Its illogical. Its indoctrination.
 
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In my experience (which is extensive) the good cops are the rare ones, the exception if you will.

We all have had experience with a bad cop (the current PD boys here are exempt from this of course, because hey, same team, right?).
How many of you have had experience with a good cop ?
I'm not talking about the one that let you off for going 9 mph over the limit (because he was too lazy to do the paperwork) I mean an honest, good person in a cops uniform.
 
I guess the problem is people don't know how to read...


This immunity is very narrow, it only applies to a "new" reading of the law--one that is novel and has never been actuall been enacted in law--.

In other words, it doesn't allow a predicate lawsuit for a special interest group and an activist judge to create some new bullshit law out of thin air.

The purpose of QA is not to allow specific officers to get away with BS, but to keep the special interest lawyers from coercion of the executive branch via BS lawsuits, ie ones seeking to "invent" new rules that were never promulgated prior to the incident...

Ex-post facto laws are illegal under the constitution, and this is a sort of "synthetic" form of ex-post facto legistlation from the bench.

If there is any concern about the law that is exposed, its easy for the legislature and executive to fix in writing. You can make such behaviour illegal for all other people simply by legistlating out of existence. What you cannot do under US law is legislate "from the bench after the fact", which is sort of common sense.



This is a very narrow type of protection, and while its possible to abuse it, its nor really any kind of blanket protection against being a jackass. The way to fix any propblem with this is to legislate better laws ex ante rather than rely on crappy laws being fixed "after the fact" since we all know how well that goes...


Again these are civil lawsuits that require "new law" be established (by a judge, not a legilature) to make the thing that already happened 'illegal'. Ie since what is being deemed unlawful was never determined, its unkowable, and thus cannot be obeyed by the enforement element at the time the action was being done...

Civilians have to be more conservative in taking risks in the same contex, basically they have to avoid grey areas in a way that any foreseable problem is avoided. QA allows/requires enforement officials to simply follow the letter of the law and/or the letter of existing case law without dealing with the "calculate every possibly foreseable grey area" and steer clear of all possible unowns, etc.

A true criminal element (ie, acting under color or authority of a enforcemnt) can do sketchy BS and be protected by QA, but the inhernt authority of a badge can be abused alot more easily than going through thy types of situation that typically result in/leave one protected by QA.

Utopian pieties from those who don't understand how it is applied in the real world.

Here is how it actually goes.

Police gun some innocent person down who was doing nothing wrong and was no threat.
Police say "well policy says we can use deadly force anytime our shrunken balls feel a twinge."
Then they proceed to laugh at the victim's families as they chant "we got qualified immunity suckers".

Police confront some law-abiding citizen, brutalize them, subject them to suffering, indignity, humiliation, pain and damage to themselves and their properties.
The police can't find anything to justify going further, so they just make sure to rough them citizen up properly and kick them back out on the street worse for the wear.
Then they proceed to laugh at the innocent person they just brutalized and chant "we got qualified immunity sucker."
And the citizen is just supposed to take it up the ass and lick the boots of the hero cops for "protecting and serving".

How about we flip the tables and offer the citizens qualified immunity if they believe they are defending themselves from unlawful police conduct or baseless encounters, even if they happen to have gotten it wrong and even if it means the police get hurt or given a good humiliation or held at gunpoint?

Oh right, as some fed boy said on here once, "well I can point a gun at you and legally it's no different than me pointing my finger at you". But of course they don't appreciate it if the tables are turned now do they?

I wonder how the police would feel if every time they did something, the rest of the citizens pulled out guns and trained them on the officers "you know just to be safe"? Would the police be happy about the citizens claiming they should be immune from any repercussions as it's standard policy to call the minutemen to surround the king's men with guns, you know just to make sure no rights are violated?
 
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You can try and fix the PDs around the country but until you fix the family unit, nothing will probably ever change. Is there a correlation between the divorce rate in the USA and these teenage thugs? Sure, we may have a few bad apples when mom and dad sleep in the same bed, but I'd venture a guess that the majority are from broken families.

How many times have you read the surname of one of these maggots and then see that the mom's name isn't the same? Even after I was big enough to know that I could take my dad in a fight, I still feared him. I bet that the respect level is lower than ever before.

Sure, the cops screwed up in the latest mass murders, but if things were different BEFORE the kid started shooting, I'd bet he would have never pick up that firearm.

Just my opinion.
 
For example, if I’m driving a government car on duty doing my job and accidentally rear end you I get qualified immunity from your personal injury lawsuit.
No. Prosecutorial immunity and Qualified immunity are completely differnt types of things.

Prosecutorial immunity applies to breaking the law. QA only applies to a situation where existing law doesn't apply.

If I have QA and I rear end you and my action is unlawful, you can sue my ass off.

What you cannot do is say "I know the law as its written says this action is legal, but I think the law is wrong" and ask the judge to re-write the law based on your lawsuit.

I cannot possibly follow the law in this case, because I would need to predict the actions of the judge to re-write the law of the legislature.

That means the Executive branch is liable for (1) the legistlative branch fucking up and (2) the judicial branch fucking up by not having previsouly fixed the said fuck up in the law. Such a situation is untenable. It pointlessly shifts blame between various branches of government, and is generally not compatible with the balance of powers.
 
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The ends justify the means.... "Do you have anything in the vehicle that I should know about?" No? Can I search? No! Well that gives me probable cause that you are hiding something. I am going to get my dog to do a search. Sound familiar?
Why do you have $5k in cash?
None of your business!
Well, I believe it is drug money so I am taking it.
You can't do that!
Bwaahaha, prove it is not drug money and you can have it back!! Take it up with the courts!!

Just google proactive policing and take a dive into what you are preaching.

Ask your district attorney's why do they allow low bail or no bail. Ask them why is theft under $900 not a crime?
I'll say that many of the police don't bother with many crimes because it's a waste of time. The da isn't going to prosecute anyway.

Have you been under a rock for the last 15 years?

Bingo that’s the problem might there the DA’s and judges. We don’t need more cops we need DA’s to hold violent felons accountable. Stop releasing these violent felons back on the streets over and over again.


 
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Like the Oregon State Trooper that not only stopped to check on why my 80 year old father who had a flat tire on the freeway, he changed the tire with out being asked. Yes there are officers that are assholes but in my experience far less than the general population and I find that incredible considering the job they do and the shit they deal with so we don’t have to. So for all the people who are sure they can do it better most agencies have openings go give it a try and see how well you do and how long you make it.
 
Like the Oregon State Trooper that not only stopped to check on why my 80 year old father who had a flat tire on the freeway, he changed the tire with out being asked. Yes there are officers that are assholes but in my experience far less than the general population and I find that incredible considering the job they do and the shit they deal with so we don’t have to. So for all the people who are sure they can do it better most agencies have openings go give it a try and see how well you do and how long you make it.
Very few of us are speaking about the individual officer. It’s irrelevant. I’m glad you love your authoritarian gov’t. Some of us don’t like getting robbed and murdered by the state while being told its for our safety.
 
Anybody that is working for a local or federal government is aiding and abetting the enemy for a cushy retirement check. Those that seek out public "service" generally don't have the skills or drive to make something of themselves in the real economy.
 
Everyone is arguing over what symptom is the problem.
Remove absolute right and wrong from our thinking and mankind reverts to the lowest common denominator.
Being evil comes natural to man.
The heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked: who can know it?
If everyone would love his neighbors as himself that would solve many of these problems, probably won’t happen it this world though.

Nobody has ever agreed to have absolute rules of right and wrong.
Human's version of right and wrong, much like morality tends to be highly flexible and easily twisted, It always seems to wind up being what those in power or the mob or some group of religious types find works best for them and worse for anyone they don't like.

Even simple things like it's wrong to kill people:
well they were sand people and they were in the wrong place at the wrong time... doesn't count...
They didn't agree with being slaves to our corporations well tough the world belongs to us...
Well they were undesirables so tough...
Well I mean you can't expect the police not to shoot bystanders because...
Well we hated what they did so...
 
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No, this is complete BS. Prosecutorial immunity and Qualified immunity are completely differnt types of things.

Prosecutorial immunity applies to breaking the law. QA only applies to a situation where existing law doesn't apply.

If I have QA and I rear end you and my action is unlawful, you can sue my ass off.

What you cannot do is say "I know the law as its written says this action is legal, but I think the law is wrong" and ask the judge to re-write the law based on your lawsuit.

I cannot possibly follow the law in this case, because I would need to predict the actions of the judge to re-write the law of the legislature.

That means the Executive branch is liable for (1) the legistlative branch fucking up and (2) the judicial branch fucking up by not having previsouly fixed the said fuck up in the law. Such a situation is untenable. It pointlessly shifts blame between various branches of government, and is generally not compatible with the balance of powers.


Nowhere in my post did I mention prosecutorial immunity.

You are injecting irrelevant crap into the discussion in order to confuse the issue.

In my state cops had immunity for anything short of false arrest or wrongful death per the government code. This was recently amended to include some other stuff. But the vast majority of lawsuits against the individual officer are precluded.

There was a recent state case where a retired cop put down a wounded deer on the side of the road in central California. A passing motorist saw it and reported him. The police responded to his house and he went out to meet them in his driveway. They pointed their firearms at him and ordered him to the ground. Then they learned he was a retired cop in lawful possession of a firearm and did not violate any laws. Oops.

The retired cop sued them for assault. The trial court dismissed based on them asserting qualified immunity. The retired cop appealed and the appellate court agreed with him, citing the government code. The court held that pointing your gun at another and ordering him to the ground is an arrest and therefore outside the the statute. The case was sent back to the trial court. This is California and other states may differ.

But generally qualified immunity protects officers even if they violate the law unless their behavior rises to the level of a civil right violation.
 
I don’t think you understood what I said/have been saying. I don’t trust the government. Its evil and disgusting. Therefore I don’t trust cops. They protect and give power to the most evil and disgusting people on the planet. State bad, state enforcers bad. Simple as that. I gave many examples. It has nothing to do with good cop bad cop, but has everything to do with the state of gov’t corruption.

The first sentence of your second paragraph contradicts the rest of it. You said the state doesn’t inflate the number of criminals among us and then you spent the rest of the paragraph explaining how they do. If men didn’t have to worry about arrest and prosecution from the boys in blue and the weoponized and two tier justice system, they would clear their own communities of the scum.

Nobody believes the state can do anything correct or efficiently but for one exception, public safety. Think about that real hard. Its illogical. Its indoctrination.

I did not contradict myself. What you are calling inflation of criminality is not that at all. It’s called legislation. The state can pass laws prohibiting certain conduct. That’s not inflation of criminality unless you’re an anarchist. They can pass all the laws they want short of violating the constitution.
 
Still bullshit.
Once the cop says that he believed there to be a law broken. He's covered. Even if he's in the wrong. The citizens get to pay for his Fuck up.
Nowhere in my post did I mention prosecutorial immunity.

You are injecting irrelevant crap into the discussion in order to confuse the issue.

In my state cops had immunity for anything short of false arrest or wrongful death per the government code. This was recently amended to include some other stuff. But the vast majority of lawsuits against the individual officer are precluded.

There was a recent state case where a retired cop put down a wounded deer on the side of the road in central California. A passing motorist saw it and reported him. The police responded to his house and he went out to meet them in his driveway. They pointed their firearms at him and ordered him to the ground. Then they learned he was a retired cop in lawful possession of a firearm and did not violate any laws. Oops.

The retired cop sued them for assault. The trial court dismissed based on them asserting qualified immunity. The retired cop appealed and the appellate court agreed with him, citing the government code. The court held that pointing your gun at another and ordering him to the ground is an arrest and therefore outside the the statute. The case was sent back to the trial court. This is California and other states may differ.

But generally qualified immunity protects officers even if they violate the law unless their behavior rises to the level of a civil right violation.
Civil rights included.
 
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Go ahead and do your own search. I don't even care to carry on with you after this. I gave you one to start and obviously you don't want to. So you are trolling or baiting. Either way I don't give a fuck.
Tell us why you think that, other than from internet horror stories.
I know plenty of deputies and cops.
Policing for profit. Google it.
 
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But generally qualified immunity protects officers even if they violate the law unless their behavior rises to the level of a civil right violation.
Qualified immunity does not provide immunity against breaking the law. EVER.It provides immunity against the executive branch being guinea pigs for the judiciary, and the fall guys for legistative mistakes.If the law is being followed, QA provides immunity from Judges and Lawyers re-writing that law at your expense.

Any officer with 100% following the law is not going to be (criminally) prosecuted for breaking it...QA means that he can't get civil litigation/sued for the same lawful (letter of the law, letter of case law) conduct.

There is a very clear legal purpose in QA as I described above, because if there is no QA the mistakes of the legislature and the mistakes of the judiciary become the legal problems of the executive branch enforcing the "fucked up" laws.

Unfortunately of potential litigants, its the job of the executive to enforce the laws as they are written (and existing case law).

Any time QA is denied its because the officer clearly broke existing law, which is fine...they should be held accountable fo that.

Officers are not employed to second guess the laws as written by the legislature/statues and the judge/case law.

Playing that game is exacltly how you ended up with DA's funded by George Soros, and all of the insanity that creats for the rule of law (eg sanctuary cities, revolving doors at the borders, no bail conditions, etc etc etc).

Pleas bother to learn the law, to some non-trivial degree, the law is what is protecting you from violent coercion of the state. If you really want officers second guessing all the laws in the country its not gonna stop at just a couple controversial ones.

Its all the other basic laws--ie, the non controversial ones like do you really own your house/car/private property?-- that will be used against you.

When you get carjacked the the police officer is a commie and thinks its OK becuase the private property laws are BS you should let that guy take your property and marriage laws are also BS so let that carjacker rape your wife...etc
 
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I bet had they just given shotguns to three fattest mothers there this would have been over with in seconds.

Courage comes in all sizes. I’ve seen Greek gods frozen in fear and nerdy little shits making kills and advancing under fire. I won’t fault anyone for running from effective fire and a lot of times that’s the right thing. But you fucking regroup and go back. Even if your pants are wet.

From the mayor and on down there was a lack of leadership. Had I been mayor I would have fired the police chief found a Ranger/Marine Gunny in the force or among the dads and put him charge.

Sometimes you send men to die. That’s part of the burden.
 
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Pleas bother to learn the law, to some non-trivial degree, the law is what is protecting you from violent coercion of the state. If you really want officers second guessing all the laws in the country its not gonna stop at just a couple controversial ones.

Why?
The supposed "Law" often bares very little resemblance to what the police, courts and government agencies decide to do and help each other get away with doing, almost as if the "Law" only applies to the working class decent folks and nobody else...
You are better off learning what actually happens and what the police get away with and how the Complicit courts and corrupt departments protect them.

Its all the other basic laws--ie, the non controversial ones like do you really own your house/car/private property?-- that will be used against you.

Well let's see, If I don't pay a monthly rent to the government that is damn near as high as my mortgage, for the privilege of "owning" my land, they will send those police to take my money or property at gun point (and covered by their current idea of immunity for any violence they do) so can you really say I own my property, or am I actually just a renter and the government owns the land as enforced by the police cheerfully?

Oh, about your private property, recently in a local city just north of me, some SWAT team decided they would like to just smash down someone's fence while looking for someone, then the city went out and wrote the homeowner a ticket and fine for having a broken fence..

Oh and when the police just decide they can seize any of your "private property" because (insert bullshit excuse about maybe drugs or investigation or just being greedy) then you have to hire a lawyer and go to court and they are not under any obligation to tell you how to get your property back and are busy laughing as a clock you don't know about counts down until they can just sell it off and keep the stolen property.

There are horror stories of small towns in Texas that practically made it their business to use their police forces as bandits with badges and just pillage the highway travelers, so bad the state had to change the laws to make it less profitable... oh and when the folks went to court, sorry can't get your stuff back, nope we can't do anything to the police or town, but we'll ask them pretty please to tone down the highway robbery a bit.
 
Criminals must be fearful of the general population..
^^^This! I live in a small redneck Texas town where few people lock their doors, and most people leave their cars unlocked in the Walmart parking lot. If it's hot, they may even leave their windows down. We have few problems with crime. It's not because of a huge, mean police presence. It's because if you screw up, there's no telling how many armed people are watching you do it. The local DA is also VERY careful about who he tries to prosecute for taking the law into their own hands. The last DA who tried it lost the case, and lost his job on the next election cycle.
 
There isn't a fix.

Mostly for one reason - being a cop sucks..
I agree. I know I couldn't do it. My dad was a cop though. He was a WWII navy vet, and plain clothes vice cop until he died back in the early 1970's. Twice during his police career he was put in the position of having to act immediately without waiting for "backup" in order to keep people from dying. He exchanged gunfire both times. He never went into detail about what went through his mind when he decided to act, other than to say that if you aren't prepared to meet that challenge, then you need more training or a different job.
 
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Cop qualified immunity has limits. You can be prosecuted for violating civil rights if shown you knew or should have known.


I respect your opinion and experience, but please.

I have seen so many instances where cops should have been charged and weren't.

In the military if you follow an unlawful order, YOU are charged or at least held accountable.

With cops and qualified immunity, all they have to articulate (barely) is that their supervisor told them to do it and their supervisor knows what is right and wrong all the time so they assumed it was lawful.

QI needs to go. Absolutely. No questions.
 
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I respect your opinion and experience, but please.

I have seen so many instances where cops should have been charged and weren't.

In the military if you follow an unlawful order, YOU are charged or at least held accountable.

With cops and qualified immunity, all they have to articulate (barely) is that their supervisor told them to do it and their supervisor knows what is right and wrong all the time so they assumed it was lawful.

QI needs to go. Absolutely. No questions.
Trust me I know…..Google the name Ali Bibeau.

Douche Command staff of MSP committed felonies and all those fucks are living large on their pensions.

For more tears Google Pike OT Scandal.

These are now coming back to knee cap guys that thought they dodged a bullet.

Blood will flow.

I could care less if it’s there or not as I never had instance in my career where someone would sue me.

I agree it’s protections are valid but often abused.

See we can discuss and still be friends.
 
I respect your opinion and experience, but please.

I have seen so many instances where cops should have been charged and weren't.

In the military if you follow an unlawful order, YOU are charged or at least held accountable.

With cops and qualified immunity, all they have to articulate (barely) is that their supervisor told them to do it and their supervisor knows what is right and wrong all the time so they assumed it was lawful.

QI needs to go. Absolutely. No questions.
Do you believe old man joe is the lawfully elected president and therefore commander and chief?
 
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Not to get too tin foil hat, but...

It’s all part of the plan if the cops can’t do their job someone has to step in to do it be it the UN or whoever. They want one world government and they are doing a good job getting us there so far unfortunately.

Maybe I’m over thinking and way off base, I don’t know anymore.
It’s not tinfoil if it’s literally true.
 
Criminals must be fearful of the general population. The police make sure this isn’t possible. It’s how the state maintains control.
exactly, man. read Solzhenitsyn's Gulag Archipelago. He described how the soviet system encouraged criminals so that the general population would be fearful of them, and totally dependent on the STATE, and even more eager to obey their masters. The only thing soviet cops were made to care about was political crime, unless the physical crime was so outrageous that they were forced to take action.
 
Not to get too tin foil hat, but...

It’s all part of the plan if the cops can’t do their job someone has to step in to do it be it the UN or whoever. They want one world government and they are doing a good job getting us there so far unfortunately.

Maybe I’m over thinking and way off base, I don’t know anymore.
you have to draw your parallels to the bolsheviks, because that is what we are dealing with now. the people who want to reinvent society in their image are very pro-marxist because that is the easiest way to control populations.

the revolutionaries in Russia created an uproar ever time the czar's police cracked down on the real assholes. they wanted to make the police so unpopular that anytime they moved an inch - against legit bad guys- that the population would turn against them. So weaken the police, destabilize, make everyone hate them and make them hesitant to act.......but once the new regime takes over, their new political police will crack skulls with a vengeance, and any backtalk or murmur of discontent will get you and your family dragged out and shot with no apologies.

coming soon to a police force near you.
 
There was a time when officers 'walked the beat'
they carried 'nightsticks'
they had 'authority'
Men wore hats
Respect was earned

Those were the days. (ymmv regarding the hats though) Different times.....
This isn't 1924 anymore. They had guns back then too. And did a lot of unconstitutional shit even back then.

It's 2022.

We're fucked.